Hey! So, I've been pondering this ride for a while and I'm wondering what y'all think of it.
Sir Lance provided me with directions from 29 Palms to LV and it looks like it would be cool. I'm thinking about a ride from OC to Joshua Tree/29 Palms on Day 1. Day 2 would be 80 miles or so (probably would need to camp somewhere). And the final day we would roll into Vegas. I think the total ride is probably around 260 miles...
The biggest problem I see is SAG support as carrying all of our stuff would suck but who on earth would volunteer to do it (not asking for volunteers...yet...just saying that it might be a challenge). Of course, getting the bikes back to OC would need to be resolved as well.
Also, there's about 20 miles of riding on the 15 near State Line but Lance said that the shoulder is very wide and that it wasn't a big deal.
So...there it is. I have to go to Vegas later this week so if there is some real interest, I might drive instead of fly and check out the route.
Who's with me?
lyeinyoureye
09-29-07, 07:53 PM
I think you'll be hard pressed to do it under 300 miles unless you do portions by car... What route from OC to JT/29 were you planning on?
WhiteCarbonDude
09-29-07, 08:00 PM
I could get you to 29 Palms from the OC. Done it twice:)
cjbruin
09-29-07, 08:14 PM
I could get you to 29 Palms from the OC. Done it twice:)
Cool! I'd love to see the route if you wouldn't mind PM'ing it to me.
cjbruin
09-29-07, 08:16 PM
I think you'll be hard pressed to do it under 300 miles unless you do portions by car... What route from OC to JT/29 were you planning on?
I don't think you're right. I'm pretty sure the route from 29 Palms was right around 150. You spend a lot of time on Kelbaker.
summoner12
09-29-07, 08:22 PM
My cousin and uncle rode across the country with no sag, camping, twice.
lyeinyoureye
09-29-07, 08:22 PM
I don't think you're right. I'm pretty sure the route from 29 Palms was right around 150. You spend a lot of time on Kelbaker.I suppose if you go from the closet point in 29 it may be ~160 miles, but AFAIK from JT and 29 are about 200 and 180 miles respectively, at least according to the shortest route on m4pqu3st and g00l3 m4ps. That's also including the last 50 miles on the 15 which is a fairly straight shot into LV. Aside from cutting through the Marine base I can't see how the route can be any shorter.
JustMe
09-29-07, 08:35 PM
Sounds interesting CJ. I'd like to see more of the proposed route and have an idea of when. Might be able to work some logistics with more info.
UmneyDurak
09-29-07, 08:37 PM
Sounds interesting. When do you plan to do it?
markw
09-29-07, 09:11 PM
I don't think you're right. I'm pretty sure the route from 29 Palms was right around 150. You spend a lot of time on Kelbaker.
Kelbaker going downhill. Or uphill, don't remember. We'll be on it next Sunday though. :) FC508, yeah baby... (I'm doing SAG, not riding) btw.
FastEddie
09-30-07, 12:01 AM
I've ridden that 20 mile section of I-15 several times. It's not bad, the shoulder is nice and wide but there is a lot of debris to navigate and very annoying, rythmical seams in the pavement.
cjbruin
10-19-07, 12:33 PM
Here's a quick update...I drove the route that Sir Lance gave me from Vegas to 29 Palms a few weeks ago. There are lots of cool things about it and some not so cool. The road got more traffic than I expected but it certainly wasn't busy. It doesn't have much shoulder to speak of so while I don't think it's dangerous, I have some concern since the speed limit is 50-55 most of the way. There are a few places that have water and food (assuming they are open) in Amboy, Kelso, and Cima. Anyway, the earliest I would consider doing it is in Spring.
Based on the data I've collected, the route comes out to about 345 miles (Iveinyoureye was right...I really underestimated the distance from Palm Springs to 29 Palms).
If I do it, I'll likely start from the beginning of the SART.
Day One (~125 mi) - SART to Green River Green River (~30 mi). WhiteCarbonDude's provided a route from Green River to the 62 (~71 mi). From there, it's ~24 mi (and 2,000+ feet of climbing) to Yucca Valley where I would suggest staying at the Super 8 Motel (I used to stay there in my rock climbing days.
Day Two (~110 mi) - Yucca Valley to Kelso. At about mile 75, there is a 3,500 foot climb (topping out about 4,000 elev) that lasts about 20 miles (followed by am 18 mi descent). Camping is available in Kelso.
Day Three (~110 mi) - Kelso to Las Vegas. The day begins with a 2,200 ft of climbing over 20-ish miles to 4,200 ft elev (followed by a 15 mi descent). There's about 20 mi of riding on the 15 that doesn't look terrible but I think we'll be happy to get off it in Jean, NV.
In all, I think it's a cool idea and would be a great adventure. I'll probably try to see if there is a better (shorter) route (i.e. maybe past Wrightwood instead of going through 29 Palms).
I have a profile from my Garmin...I'll post it when I get a chance.
Scootcore
10-19-07, 12:42 PM
very intriguing!!!!
efficiency
10-19-07, 12:45 PM
I'm intrigued.
roadfix
10-19-07, 12:49 PM
I would love to do a one or two night unsupported with camping or motel mini-tour, but not necessarily to LV.
LCI_Brian
10-19-07, 01:30 PM
In all, I think it's a cool idea and would be a great adventure. I'll probably try to see if there is a better (shorter) route (i.e. maybe past Wrightwood instead of going through 29 Palms).
I've previously cycled the route from Barstow to OC via the Wrightwood area. Basically the alternate route would follow the Cajon Pass, using the I-15 shoulder for an exit or two, then following the old Route 66 to Barstow and then over to Amboy where you would pick up your original route. Services in Amboy may be pretty questionable; you'll have to check into that. I'm at work and can't get to my route info, so PM me if you need any more info.
cjbruin
10-19-07, 01:42 PM
Amboy has a little store. The Park Rangers at Kelso said they guy is there "most of the time". I suspect there must at least be water via a hose :)
Scootcore
10-19-07, 02:09 PM
camelbaks for sure
roadfix
10-19-07, 02:17 PM
I'd like to see Survivorman do a bike tour through the middle of nowhere.
cjbruin
10-19-07, 02:21 PM
I'd like to see Survivorman do a bike tour through the middle of nowhere.
I don't think I could handle all of his whining. Bear would probably do it though.
JustMe
10-19-07, 06:18 PM
I was wondering why not go over Hwy 18?, I think it is, through Big Bear Lake and down the back side thru Lucern Valley to pick up hwy 247 into Barstow instead of going all the way out to 29 Palms?
Extort
10-19-07, 06:55 PM
I am intrigued as well!!! Spring time would be best, and I'd go for the camping route versus motels... we can shower in Vegas.
Transport back to OC (and transport of all the gear for the ride) would mean either a SAG person or panniers.
ken cummings
10-19-07, 07:12 PM
I've done the ride the other way; Vegas to laguna Beach in OC. Took two days in a faired recumbent. I didn't mind using the I-15 shoulder where ever I could. Your route may avoid some traffic. Going my route in reverse you could ship your stuff ahead from Greyhound station to Greyhound station. How about OC to Cajon Pass to Hesperia to Barstow to Zzyzx to Baker to State Line to Vegas? Cajon and the Baker Grade are the only real climbs.
rooftest
10-19-07, 07:13 PM
I don't think I could handle all of his whining. Bear would probably do it though.
Bear would always be clean shaven and looking well-rested. There would also always be sweet helicopter shots of him when he is "all alone". Survivorman would do the whole thing without food or water, on a Wal-Mart bike, in jeans.
cjbruin
10-19-07, 07:52 PM
I've done the ride the other way; Vegas to laguna Beach in OC. Took two days in a faired recumbent. I didn't mind using the I-15 shoulder where ever I could. Your route may avoid some traffic. Going my route in reverse you could ship your stuff ahead from Greyhound station to Greyhound station. How about OC to Cajon Pass to Hesperia to Barstow to Zzyzx to Baker to State Line to Vegas? Cajon and the Baker Grade are the only real climbs.
I'm not stuck on the route that I did...in fact it was a lot longer than I thought it would be. I've been trying to figure out the best route using Google Maps but it's not always easy to tell if the roads are good for bikes. I'm open to all suggestions.
By the way, I'll bet we could beg James to come up with a very cool jersey :)
Sir-Lanceimnot
10-19-07, 08:15 PM
FYI. Do not count on the guy being there. This is from past experience. I hope that you are planning on having a chase vehicle. The possibility of someone becoming injured and not having any means of transporting them to safety is there however slight. Also a note that there are places that the cell reception is sketchy.
Just my 2 cents
mateo44
10-20-07, 12:45 PM
What, you think handlebars could snap or something?:p
JustMe
10-29-07, 12:26 AM
CLICK HERE (http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w177/imspec/Bumpbtn.swf)
Trying to keep interest alive.
OkComputer
11-07-07, 04:51 PM
I've previously cycled the route from Barstow to OC via the Wrightwood area. Basically the alternate route would follow the Cajon Pass, using the I-15 shoulder for an exit or two, then following the old Route 66 to Barstow and then over to Amboy where you would pick up your original route. Services in Amboy may be pretty questionable; you'll have to check into that. I'm at work and can't get to my route info, so PM me if you need any more info.
Using google maps, when going from Cajon to Oak Hills, it looks like the shortest route is to get on the I-15 from Cajon Blvd. to Mariposa Rd. Is this correct?
I'm scheduled to be in Vegas on Jan 4, 2008 so I'm thinking that I might as well bike there. I'd be coming from LA and plan to start on Jan 1 or 2, 2008. Either through Victorville or 29 Palms. If it's through 29 Palms it would be the route as described by cjbruin and it looks like the only option would be to camp at Kelso. Anyone familiar with the weather at Kelso at this time of the year? Anyone interested in going?
JustMe
11-07-07, 05:48 PM
Qute possibly, depending on what weather looks like at that time this year. But I'm still wondering why not take hwy 18 thru Big Bear Lake, down to Lucern Valley, and pick up 247 directly into Barstow, bypassing Victorville altogether? It can be damn windy thru Cajon Pass and into Victorvill, not that anyplace in the high desert is exempt from wind.
OkComputer
11-07-07, 06:15 PM
That looks like a good route, we could go that way if it's not snowing or icy. How much climbing is involved though?
cjbruin
11-07-07, 06:34 PM
Here's some info that I picked up at the visitor center during my road trip.
Average temps...
Granite Mountain (Elev 4,200 ft) = Dec 50/34, Jan 50/36
Zzyzx (Elev (930 ft) = Dec 62/34, Jan 61/34
Kelso is at 2,126 ft.
JustMe
11-07-07, 08:08 PM
That looks like a good route, we could go that way if it's not snowing or icy. How much climbing is involved though?
Probably more than Cajon Pass through Victorville since the elevation at Big Bear Lake is about 6900 ft. I'll run profiles for both to see what the elev. and milage comps are. Snow & ice are certainly a possibility, but rarely on the Lucern Valley side of the hill.
UmneyDurak
11-07-07, 08:15 PM
So any time frame on when you are planning on doing this?
LCI_Brian
11-07-07, 09:28 PM
Using google maps, when going from Cajon to Oak Hills, it looks like the shortest route is to get on the I-15 from Cajon Blvd. to Mariposa Rd. Is this correct?
Yes, you enter I-15 at Cleghorn, pass the 138 exit, and exit at Oak Hills: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=2408431774803954486,34.361640,-117.433710&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=Cajon+Blvd+%26+Cleghorn+Rd,+San+Bernardino,+San+Bernardino,+California+92407,+United+States&daddr=34.362072,-117.43329&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=15&sll=34.354491,-117.43475&sspn=0.025828,0.040169&ie=UTF8&ll=34.328127,-117.454319&spn=0.103344,0.160675&z=13&om=1
An alternate is to take Cleghorn to I-15 to 138 to Summit Valley Road: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=13602821837681675969,34.327420,-117.398500%3B18346890531385180610,34.361970,-117.433410&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=Cajon+Blvd+%26+Cleghorn+Rd,+San+Bernardino,+San+Bernardino,+California+92407,+United+States&daddr=Summit+Valley+Rd+%4034.327420,+-117.398500+to:34.381129,-117.301712&mra=dme&mrcr=1&mrsp=2&sz=13&sll=34.356616,-117.351494&sspn=0.103309,0.160675&ie=UTF8&ll=34.349389,-117.37587&spn=0.206636,0.32135&z=12&om=1
Highway 38 from Redlands to Big Bear to Highway 18 would be good, but a lot of climbing (cresting Onyx Summit at around 8400'), and a chance of ice and snow in the winter.
With all these routes above you are pretty much locked in to going to Barstow and then heading east to Amboy, adding miles and probably an extra day. Otherwise you end up backtracking to Yucca Valley, and in that case you might be better off doing the original proposed route through the Palm Springs area.
From the Victorville/Hesperia area, I've taken the old Route 66, which was nice (outside of the suburban parts of Victorville), although the road is really bumpy! I don't know about the conditions of 247 - either heading north to Barstow or east to Yucca Valley.
JustMe
11-08-07, 12:14 AM
It isn't necessary to go over Onyx Summit if you go up hwy 330 from San Bernardino through Running Springs to Big Bear Lake.
After running profiles on a route using old route 66 to Cajon Junction, and hwy 138 to Summit Valley Rd. to Hesperia to the junction of Yermo Rd. & I-15 just east of Barstow vs. using hwy 330 through Big Bear Lake to Lucern Valley and hwy 247 to the Yermo Rd./I-15 junction, the later adds 20 miles to the overall distance and doubles the climb with a peak elevation of 7138 ft. It looked like it would have been a shorter route, but it proves not to be.
LCI_Brian
11-08-07, 12:30 AM
I had suggested 38 instead of 330, because I thought that the group wouldn't want to take the "main" road to Big Bear during ski/snowboard season.
Still, interesting to see the distance comparison between the two options. I guess you don't see all of the twists and turns of 330 on the map. A little distance can be shaved from the first option by staying on I-15 for one more exit, but I think the extra mileage to Summit Valley Road is worth it.
JustMe
11-08-07, 12:44 AM
You're certainly right about the potential for traffic even though the road is much wider now than it was years ago.
Your route through Yucca and 29 Palms is probably more convenient from OC. I live near Foothill in the San Gabriels, so it would be a lot further to go as far south as Whitewater. I don't know what part of LA OKComp is in, but it may even be easier to go up Tujunga Cyn to Angeles Forest, then Pearblossom Rd. and out to Victorville from this area.
LCI_Brian
11-08-07, 07:04 AM
Well, it's not my route through Yucca and 29 Palms, someone else came up with that. I'm just a guy jumping in giving two cents on alternate routes - having ridden those between the Cajon Pass and Victorville - heck, I don't even know if I can get a "permission slip" from the Mrs. to do the ride! :D
OkComputer
11-08-07, 12:28 PM
With all these routes above you are pretty much locked in to going to Barstow and then heading east to Amboy, adding miles and probably an extra day.
Another option would be to ride the I-15 shoulder from Barstow all the way to Vegas as described by the post by thomson in this thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=353579
I live near Foothill in the San Gabriels, so it would be a lot further to go as far south as Whitewater. I don't know what part of LA OKComp is in, but it may even be easier to go up Tujunga Cyn to Angeles Forest, then Pearblossom Rd. and out to Victorville from this area.
I live in Glendale. So, from Glendale it appears that traveling east through Ontario would be the way to go whether going to Victorville or 29 Palms. Going through Angeles Forest seems like it adds more miles and climbing, similar to the Big Bear route. (I'm noticing a theme here JustMe=loves going through mts.)
JustMe
11-08-07, 06:33 PM
. . . . Going through Angeles Forest seems like it adds more miles and climbing, similar to the Big Bear route. (I'm noticing a theme here JustMe=loves going through mts.)
:lol::lol::lol: Anyone that's ridden with me certainly knows I'm no climber. But there's alot of desolate road between here and Vegas, and I saw a lot of good riders get frazzed by the constant sun through the desert at RAAM this year.
Any way, no matter how you look at it, you have to get up to the hi desert. I hate long, drawn out climbs, so I figure get it over with.:D Besides, . . . I do like a good descent. Going through Cajon there isn't much to descend untill you get past Barstow, and into Baker. Then you have another long, drawn out climb over Halleran. But I'll certainy defer to experience, and doing it the easy way. :)
Sir-Lanceimnot
11-08-07, 07:03 PM
I will just through my 2 cents in and say that 247 is a really bad way to go. I have ridden on 247 in the past and there is NO shoulder and LOTS of big rigs. I would not recommend it.
JustMe
11-09-07, 11:39 AM
Thanx for the insight. Wouldn't have thought there would be that much commercial traffic.
Sir-Lanceimnot
11-10-07, 08:08 AM
Yea, between Barstow and Yucca Valley 247 is a major route for Big Rigs. I use to put a fair bit of time in on 247 but after 2 cyclist were killed and a few close calls myself I figured that the road was just not the best place to ride.
MTBMaven
11-11-07, 10:58 AM
Anyone familiar with the weather at Kelso at this time of the year?
It can be quite cold and windy in the Mojave area. I have spend many a cold night camping out there. Once on a Boy Scout camping trip at Hole in the Wall with my cousins troop it was so windy several tents broke. I luckily had a bomber 4 season tent that didn't move in the wind. The desert (especially the high desert) gives up a tremendous amount of heat at night. The environment doesn't hold the heat absorbed during the day like other regimes. If I remember correctly from my physical geography classes it has to do with the lack of trees and soil type.
(Originally I thought you asked about water and responded with the following)
There are a lot of ground water wells out in those parts. I have been camping out there several times in the winter and spring. We have always found water at Mid Hills. There is a windmill well there. Only problem is the road to Mid Hills is a graded dirt road. I am pretty sure there was water at Hole in the Wall the time I camped there. There is a park office at Hole in the Wall, you should be able to contact them.
Route Alternates: If you go the 29 Palms route, you could consider taking Kelso Cima Rd. to Morning Star Mine Rd. to Ivanpah Rd. to Nipton Rd. through Mojave National Preserve. Rather than getting on the 15 continue traveling east on Nipton Rd./164 which takes you to Highway 95 in Searchlight. The 95 gets you in between Boulder City and Henderson. Once in Henderson you can take Boulder Highway almost to The Strip.