General Cycling Discussion - who was in the right?? (opinion needed)

( Just got back from the Apple Cider century, a ride in Michigan that sees close to 5000 participants, and something happened to me today that has never happened in my twelve years of recreational cycling. I wanted to get your opinion to see who was the "dick". me or the other guy.

this happned about mile 35 of a very crowded ride in the farm roads of michigan. I normally do these rides by myself. I typically ride at about a 17-20mph pace. I get passed by a lot of hard core roadies, the only people I pass are moms on mountain bikes. anyway, today i got behind this other guy and was trying to keep up with him, for a little while anyway. We had passed each other a few time then on one occassion he suddenly pulled off to the side and made some comment about me "riding his ass the whole way". I was drafting but no more than a few minutes and then mostly when we were going down hill where my momentum carried me to his wheel I came back with "Its not a race, so lighten up".(hard to come up with witty stuff in the heat of the m0ment).
He said that I should "do a little work"
I called him a dick and rode away.

So was I wrong, or was he. Personally I dont mind when people draft off of me. Im 6'0 and 230lbs. so I see it as a contribution to humanity especially on a windy day.

let me know what you think

You were both wrong, but he was wrong first.

Awful big for a 13 year old. :rolleyes:

you weren't a dick.

you were a raging jackass.....but not a dick.


hehehe.

Don't let people like that get to you. if you stew over it for the next 65 mi, than its a century wasted. the
"whatever dude" response is a classic middle-of-the-road. a healthy "f you too!" feels good too, but it doesnt fix the situation. so, neither of you was in the right, you were both wrong in different ways.

How do you ask people if they mind being drafted? How do you tell people that you don't like being drafted?

What's wrong with the direct approach?

"I'm right on your wheel. Is that a problem for you?"
"It makes me nervous to have someone drafting behind me."

FWIW I don't draft with people who I don't know.

I'm used to riding by myself, and would feel uncomfortable either being right behind somebody else, or having somebody right behind me. It's not a matter of who does the work so much as a just a tailgating/ safety/ personal space issue. Same reason you don't "draft" people when you drive on the freeway.

I draft off people. People draft off me.
If I do not want someone drafting off of me I slow down and wave them by.
In my world you were fine and the other rider is not.
Though on my commute I tend to avoid drafting. Situations where one is expecting to be alone are a different animal than an organized ride.

It's always polite to ask and to take your turn pulling. Sometimes people just want to be left alone.

Back to riding by yourself or learn to share the road . . . or the drafting duties.

Hooking onto someones wheel momentarily when you're unable to pass because (enter reason here) shouldn't upset the average person...keeping in mind the laws of average.
Hooking onto someones wheel and mooching without helping is another story...I'd need to hear his side.
There's three sides to every story; his, yours and the truth.
You might have been a little too quick to use the "D" word...

The rider drafting is the who is at risk: He will crash if he "crosses wheels", the puller will be unaffected. He will be likelier to run into potholes and ride over debris.

The person being drafted is unaffected by someone drafting. What's the problem here? He is obviously a stronger rider. If he were riding "alone" his pace would be just the same. I don't understand why someone would be anything other than flattered by someone drafting him.

He was wrong for being rude -- he could have asked you nicely to take a turn up front. Sharing the hard work seems fair to me.

You were wrong for choosing what sounds like a pretty gross username on BikeForums.

The rider drafting is the who is at risk: He will crash if he "crosses wheels", the puller will be unaffected. He will be likelier to run into potholes and ride over debris.

The person being drafted is unaffected by someone drafting. What's the problem here? He is obviously a stronger rider. If he were riding "alone" his pace would be just the same. I don't understand why someone would be anything other than flattered by someone drafting him.

Yeah, right, because no commuter cyclist drafting me ever stopped paying attention and rode up my ass, taking both of us out :rolleyes:

If you want to sit on my wheel, you better damn well ask, or else you're going to find yourself on the receving end of an impolite exchange, especially if you don't pull through and do some work, you lazy *******.

What's so hard about politely asking, "mind if I draft for a bit?"

The rider drafting is the who is at risk: He will crash if he "crosses wheels", the puller will be unaffected. He will be likelier to run into potholes and ride over debris.

The person being drafted is unaffected by someone drafting. What's the problem here? He is obviously a stronger rider. If he were riding "alone" his pace would be just the same. I don't understand why someone would be anything other than flattered by someone drafting him.

Not always true. If the front rider is inexpreienced and over corrects when his rear wheel is hit he can go down. He may train by himself and not be used to drafting or he may have been tired and could not concentrate on managing the situation.

It is not unreasonable to ask someone you do not know to not draft off you. But like others have said, it can be done nicely.

He was wrong for being rude -- he could have asked you nicely to take a turn up front. Sharing the hard work seems fair to me.

You were wrong for choosing what sounds like a pretty gross username on BikeForums.

I'm a Dentist. get your mind out of the gutter.

He was wrong for being rude -- he could have asked you nicely to take a turn up front. Sharing the hard work seems fair to me.

You were wrong for choosing what sounds like a pretty gross username on BikeForums.

I'm a Dentist. get your mind out of the gutter.:)

I'm used to riding by myself, and would feel uncomfortable either being right behind somebody else, or having somebody right behind me. It's not a matter of who does the work so much as a just a tailgating/ safety/ personal space issue. Same reason you don't "draft" people when you drive on the freeway.
I'm with you here. Personal space issue. It creeps me out to have some stranger on my tail when there's plenty of room to pass.

I'm with you here. Personal space issue. It creeps me out to have some stranger on my tail when there's plenty of room to pass.
And it's not just personal space. Having someone on his wheel places additional obligations on him such as maintaining a steady pace. Unless he's volunteered to take on this burden, he may see having someone sucking his wheel as an additional hassle.

You don't need to be rude about it, just start slowing down. A draft is no good when you're doing 5kph.

Ladies, ladies....settle down please......what about both of you stopping and having a good ol' manly punch up to work it out? :rolleyes:

I wonder if THAT'S what some woman was doing when she hit me? Drafting? I didn't know she was there until I stopped and she crashed into me. Although she was entirely at fault, a whole trail and she had to ride right on my back tire, I felt bad because she only had 1 leg and she fell over when she hit me.

Actually, when drafting, the puller also gets some positive effect off the airflow dynamic in that the turbulence pocket is further behind, so less drag on both riders. Granted, at the relatively low speed of a bicycle the effect is less than that achieved in NASCAR, but it is there and measurable.

( Just got back from the Apple Cider century, a ride in Michigan that sees close to 5000 participants, and something happened to me today that has never happened in my twelve years of recreational cycling. I wanted to get your opinion to see who was the "dick". me or the other guy.



You never said how close to his wheel you were. In rides smaller than this one I expect to have someone on my wheel unless I'm working my way through a mass of slower riding cyclists. And for much of the ride I expect to be on someones wheel.

But there is a difference between 6 inches of less and 2 feet. If 6 inches then yes you are a dick and a fool. At 2 feet he is a dick and a fool.

Actually, when drafting, the puller also gets some positive effect off the airflow dynamic in that the turbulence pocket is further behind, so less drag on both riders. Granted, at the relatively low speed of a bicycle the effect is less than that achieved in NASCAR, but it is there and measurable.

In theory yes, but even then the effect would be too small to feel. In practice, at endurance speeds (not time trial), the effect is likely too small to even measure... The slightest amount of crosswind would blow the bubble away anyway.

You never said how close to his wheel you were. In rides smaller than this one I expect to have someone on my wheel unless I'm working my way through a mass of slower riding cyclists. And for much of the ride I expect to be on someones wheel.

But there is a difference between 6 inches of less and 2 feet. If 6 inches then yes you are a dick and a fool. At 2 feet he is a dick and a fool.

I was a good couple of feet back. Im kinda of scared to get so close to the wheel of someone I dont know that well for the reasons outlined already in this thread. I was just trying to stay with him to see if I could . In retrospect, I think he got pissed cause he couldnt drop the fat old guy. :D

Then don't. Plain and simple. If you're going to hang on my wheel, introduce yourself, pass or slow down... stop and have a cigarette if you need to. Tailgating is uncool & unsafe.

You sucked his wheel without asking or even announcing your presence and then when he asked you to do a little work you made a snarky comment rather than take a pull?

Yep. You were that guy. Not him.

I still await the day I get to have an opinion about someone drafting me.

Wrong...right...who cares...if the other guy was half the rider he obviously thought he was, he would have just spooled it up and dropped you....that's what I would have done....but then again, I would have been no where near annoyed for somebody drafting me on a recreational ride! geezz....some people....some people's children!

Drafting for a few minutes is plain drafting, a couple of seconds is enough to realize you are wheel-sucking and that you should either back off or ask permission. And if the person agrees, you should do your turn... So, sorry, I think you were at fault. I hate to find people drafting me, especially without permission, cause if, for some reason I want to cut over or slow down, they are right there. I don't have any responsibility to keep an even pace with someone drafting me who I didn't give permission to, but now I have to be more careful about slowing down or moving around.

...if the other guy was half the rider he obviously thought he was, he would have just spooled it up and dropped you....
Lol, I'm new here but this seems to be quite a common blame-the-victim philosophy. e.g. - she was asking for it by wearing that pretty red dress.

she was asking for it by wearing that pretty red dress.

Now that could be a reason to draft with permission....

You sucked his wheel without asking or even announcing your presence and then when he asked you to do a little work you made a snarky comment rather than take a pull?

Yep. You were that guy. Not him.

2 feet back is sucking a wheel? odd

2 feet back is sucking a wheel? odd

By his own words the OP was drafting. Wheel sucking = unreciprocated drafting. (At least 'round here. Maybe it's different there.)

The rider drafting is the who is at risk: He will crash if he "crosses wheels", the puller will be unaffected. In case of relatively light wheel crossing - yes. But it can be a fairly major overlap, affecting both parties to some degree too. If you have to stop really suddenly and the other rider runs into you from behind, you won't exactly be unaffected.

I don't draft off people I don't know, and don't like it when others draft off me. That doesn't happen too often though, since I mostly ride in the urban stop-and-go environment.

By his own words the OP was drafting. Wheel sucking = unreciprocated drafting. (At least 'round here. Maybe it's different there.)



I don't know if 2 feet is much of a draft.
Your thoughts?

It depends on the wind, the pace, and the size of the puller, but you're right: it's not much of a draft. The OP himself said he was drafting in his first post. Later he said that it was a couple feet. But still he planted himself on some riders wheel, whether it was 6 inches or 24 doesn't seem too relevant to me. What's relevant is that he didn't announce himself, much less ask, and when he was asked to do his share of work, he refused and said "it's not a race."

To be honest most of the time when I have drafted on an organized ride was in a paceline. If you can not figure out you are being drafted then there is something seriously wrong. Though it would be amusing if the lead rider was not even aware that he had 6 people behind him. :p

If someone was close to my back wheel, I'd get ticked. But, that is only because I am not a seasoned cyclist used to riding close to other cyclists and it would make me nervous.

I will stay a couple bike lengths back on someone if I am seeing if I can keep up with them for a while and wouldn't have a problem if someone did that to me.

The OP was wrong. I would've shoved my minipump into his front wheel.

Too violent for the circumstances, IMO. I hope you wear a sign telling people not to draft you.

Much ado about nothing.

OK, i see this topic dissolving so Ill thank to everyone for your opinions. Except for the person who called me a 13yr old.
that really hurt.

I don't mind you sucking my wheel unannounced, uninvited, and unintroduced so long as you don't mind me braking + swerving very suddenly at 25mph for no apparent reason.

Me, I'd have politely apologized to the fellow for upsetting him, and then forgotten about the incident and enjoyed my ride. At least, that's what I'd LIKE to have done... 90% of the time, I'd have achieved my intent. The remaining 10%, I'd probably have done what the original poster did.

To be honest most of the time when I have drafted on an organized ride was in a paceline. If you can not figure out you are being drafted then there is something seriously wrong. Though it would be amusing if the lead rider was not even aware that he had 6 people behind him. :p

Generally I have found in an organized ride (unless longer than a century) you end up spending most of your time in some kind of 'paceline' usually not rotating with one person setting the pace. Tandems sometimes end up with a train of close to one hundred riders.

OK, i see this topic dissolving so Ill thank to everyone for your opinions. Except for the person who called me a 13yr old.
that really hurt.

No offense intended Doc. I was addressing the behaviour, not the person. Just call it as I see it. :)

Other than that incident, did you enjoy the ride? :) Clear air (bit chilly to start), sparse clouds, some wind, but nice not to have any rain this year.

With so many riders between rest areas about every 15 miles, it's sometimes difficult not to occasionally ride close to somebody else whose pace you match, especially where the road has auto/truck traffic and you have to stay to the right edge. Uphills exacerbate the situation because it takes more time/distance to separate. The other rider may have just been having a difficult time, just put a pet to sleep, or got dumped.

I tend not to get in the unwanted draft situation as I usually say something (good morning; hi) as I approach somebody from behind after the monotony of "on your left".

Yes , absolutely. Great weather, great route, very well marked, great safety personel. and 4999 other great cyclists. ;)

I wouldn't draft without knowing they'd be ok with it first, but ultimately if he had a problem with it then a non-dick approach wouldn't have been so arsy and aggressive. He could have just let you know he didn't like it without being such a hothead.