View Full Version : Need help with seat bag, please
The Smokester
10-04-07, 08:41 AM
I have a new carbon Specialized Roubaix with a carbon seat post. I would like a behind-the-seat bag with about 11 liters capacity for all-day rides in cold and rainy weather. The Moots Tailgater in titanium would be nice but it clamps to the seat post and most manufacturers warn against clamping to carbon seat posts.
Another possibility is the Carradice Pendle. Right now this is the top contender but I am concerned both that it is too wide (about 12 inches) and also made out of low tech materials so it is a bit heavy. I must admit also that I think the styling is a bit out of tune with my modern bike.
Is there something more streamlined and lighter than the Pendle? Are the warnings to not clamp to carbon valid? What do you use? Does anyone have any advise to help me out?
banerjek
10-04-07, 09:37 AM
11 liters is a huge amount of capacity. I take my touring bike rather than my racer when I need to haul that much. Definitely don't try clamping something that heavy to a carbon post.
Bacciagalupe
10-04-07, 10:59 AM
11 liters...?
FWIW I don't think that's really necessary, unless you're touring or something. You don't need a lot of clothes to ride, and would be fine with a regular (albeit larger) saddle bag and a basic / small handlebar bag.
Like this: http://www.rei.com/product/724931
Or just a regular rack & trunk bag. If your bike doesn't have eyelets on the rear seatstays, use p clamps.
Get rid of the carbon fiber seatpost, at least for the winter, so you can install your preferred seatbag.
BTW, I have a Pendle seatbag and use it quite a bit for winter rides, or any time I need to carry more than a small seatbag will hold. The "low tech materials" have held up very well over the last four years. If you're worried about the width, you might consider the Junior bag, which is the same as the pendle with the side pockets removed. But the side pockets are very handy to store flat repair and tools for easy access.
Six jours
10-04-07, 12:29 PM
Well, I wouldn't go as far as to say 11 liters is huge, although I guess it is compared to the modern "room for a tube and a gel, if you force it" seat pack.
But 11 liters is big enough that it makes me think weight isn't the huge factor for you that it is for the typical user of carbon fiber parts. I assume that you'll be using most of those 11 liters, which means you'll be carying 3-5 extra pounds around with you, which in turn makes the 100 grams of weight saved by a carbon post kind of superfluous. IMO.
Which is all a roundabout way of agreeing with the above posters, especially supcom. If you really need 11 liters, ditch the trick post. If you can get by with less, the Carradice Junior is eight liters and might be just the ticket for you.
<edit> You can also look into the various clamps that fit onto the seat rails, rather than the post. Some of these are rated beyond 20 pounds, so should do the trick. Peter White and/or Wallbike, among others, have them available on their websites.
I don't have a carbon bike, but I also would not put a bag that big on a carbon seat post. I would personally break out a cyclocross or commuter bike for that kind of riding, OR I would go straight for a bike messenger bag. When it is cold, you don't have to worry about the bag making you too sweaty, and if you use the waist band, it won't slip around either. There is a reason that bike messengers use those things...
You just have to face it, there's no "aero" or "cool" way to carry 11 liters of stuff on a bike. Either it's a giant handlebar bag, a carradice bag or a pannier.
amaferanga
10-04-07, 02:28 PM
11 litres is a lot for a day ride. I use a large Ortleib seat pack for day rides in winter. Its only 3 litres yet combined with jersey pockets I can carry everything I need (including waterproofs). Not sure I even had 11 litres of storage on PBP!
A 12" wide saddlebag is narrower than me at that point, so how is that a problem. Does the The Smokester have really skinny hips?
Although 11 liters may sound like a lot, for much winter riding where you have a freezing morning that warms up during the day, you need a place to put extra clothing. The Pendle is really an ideal size for this. It's really not as big as you might think. And it beats stuffing clothes into a Camelback.
And the weight really should not be a concern. After all, if you're going to be stuffing several pounds of clothing into the bag, what's a few extra ounces in bag material? Same thing goes for replacing the seatpost with aluminum. So what if the aluminum post weighs a few extra ounces?
Frame bag b/w top and down tube? Can add this to eg. jersey pockets, bottle cages, large wedge or saddle bag, frame pump (instead of in bag) and small bar bag or bag on top of top tube for snacks.
I find the small brooks bag (millbrook), about 5l, can carry all of the stuff I need for a days riding. It hangs off the seat so carbon no problem.
For credit card touring add a handlebar bag for your evening wear.
Hendley
10-05-07, 12:28 AM
I've actually been thinking the last few months about this too. I want a bag for overnight/weekend jaunts, just enough to carry a change of underwear, a jacket, shoes and a toothbrush. I too have a carbon seatpost and I also happend to hate the look of those racks that clamp onto the posts and stick out into thin air (I know, I know, function over form, but still...)
The Carradice's looked liked a good solution to me, too, although unless you buy (or fabricate?) hook adaptors, they won't attach to non-Brooks saddles. Also, because of the width of the bag, I do think that the back of your legs will bang against it if it's up against the seatpost. The Bagman Q/R frame solves both these issues, but it can cost as much as the bag itself and I've read a lot of reports about it being overly fragile.
Anyway, I'm still searching--please let us know what you do in the end!
Buckshot77
10-05-07, 08:35 AM
The main issue is clamping to a carbon fiber seatpost. All talk of too big/too small etc aside, unless the seat post is reinforced to handle clamping pressure, don't do it. You can easily crush the carbon fiber with the clamp which then damages the structural integrity of the seat post. You'd be just fine switching to something like a Thomson seat post that is probably pretty close to the same weight and can handle a bag of that size without issue.
Rick
Six jours
10-05-07, 09:43 AM
Also, because of the width of the bag, I do think that the back of your legs will bang against it if it's up against the seatpost.
I use the Carradice Barley bag which is a bit smaller than the Pendle. It's attached to undersaddle loops, and the backs of my legs occasionally touch it. This is not as bothersome as I was afraid it would be, but I do notice it.
The main issue is clamping to a carbon fiber seatpost. All talk of too big/too small etc aside, unless the seat post is reinforced to handle clamping pressure, don't do it. You can easily crush the carbon fiber with the clamp which then damages the structural integrity of the seat post. You'd be just fine switching to something like a Thomson seat post that is probably pretty close to the same weight and can handle a bag of that size without issue.
Rick
The Carradice bags do not require any clamping to the seatpost. The clamp was in reference to a Moots Tailgater or using a seatpost rack and trunk. Carradice bags typically attach through loops on the saddle or to adapters that bolt to the saddle rails. There is an optional seatpost mounted quick release available for Carradice bags, but that would not be recommended for a carbon fiber post.
Also, because of the width of the bag, I do think that the back of your legs will bang against it if it's up against the seatpost.
I use spacer blocks (either PVC pipe or wood) at the seatpost to minimise this problem, something like http://128.83.80.200/bike/tifixiebig/tifixie1.jpg
The Smokester
10-05-07, 07:07 PM
A 12" wide saddlebag is narrower than me at that point, so how is that a problem. Does the The Smokester have really skinny hips?
Wwhhhhhaaaah. I'm calling my Mmmmommmmmmeeeeeeee.
I have a new carbon Specialized Roubaix with a carbon seat post. I would like a behind-the-seat bag with about 11 liters capacity for all-day rides in cold and rainy weather. The Moots Tailgater in titanium would be nice but it clamps to the seat post and most manufacturers warn against clamping to carbon seat posts.
Another possibility is the Carradice Pendle. Right now this is the top contender but I am concerned both that it is too wide (about 12 inches) and also made out of low tech materials so it is a bit heavy. I must admit also that I think the styling is a bit out of tune with my modern bike.
Is there something more streamlined and lighter than the Pendle? Are the warnings to not clamp to carbon valid? What do you use? Does anyone have any advise to help me out?
My suggestion is a special seat bag made by Carousel design works. Its very light and will work with a carbon seat post and holds a lot of stuff. Should be no problem with carbon as long as it's not loaded with too much heavy stuff.
http://carouseldesignworks.com/flyer.html
Hendley
10-06-07, 02:18 AM
Hezz, that looks like a very interesting solution; avoids the clamping issue, stays out of the way of the legs. I wonder how easy it is to get in and out of during the day. It looks like you pack everything tight and then strap it up. Also, it doesn't look self-supporting(?), so if it's only half full it'll dangle loose?
My suggestion is a special seat bag made by Carousel design works. ]
That seat bag looks great for winter riding. Any idea if it is big enough to hold a soft-shell jacket?
It looks like a good piece of gear for handling bulky, lightweight loads like clothes. I like the seat tube tunnel. Clever idea.
Hezz, that looks like a very interesting solution; avoids the clamping issue, stays out of the way of the legs. I wonder how easy it is to get in and out of during the day. It looks like you pack everything tight and then strap it up. Also, it doesn't look self-supporting(?), so if it's only half full it'll dangle loose?
Yes, it actually is self supporting. Works just like a normal wedge seat bag but is bigger. It's ideal for stuffing bulky soft clothing items. A few heavier things like tools could be put in near the bottom so leveraging does not become a problem. You should be able to put all your tools, a down jacket and a lightweight rain jacket in that bag. I think it is suppose to be like a stuff sack so the tight packing of the stuff inside becomes the structure to hold it up.
I think it is available in three sizes. Was used by Jay Petervary to break GDBR record. I think the guys are using them to stuff a down sleeping bag into it so it should hold quite a bit of lightweight clothes.
Here is a picture of a GDR bike set up with it.
ortlieb seat bag in the large size might get you what you need.
ditch the CF post and you open a wide range of options.
i'm partial to the carradice SQR tour. i think its 16l. lots of stuff to throw in there and the racer boys look at me cross eyed when i get passed... (yeah, its all because of the bag, fenders and lights ;) )
planning to do a light tour with a h-bar bag and the sqr tour. if i camp i'll delete the h-bar bag and add small front panniers for tent and sleeping bag. everything else will go in the sqr.
i do like those carousel bags... but i'd go mad as they look like large pockets that you need to compress.
vicjane
10-08-07, 02:33 AM
Agreed. I love my Ortlieb large waterproof saddle bag. It carries everything I need including snacks, tubes,foldie, rain jacket plus arms and leg warmers. The other plus for this bag is that it attaches under the saddle and is very secure. Tip- as it is one large compartment, when packing put the items least likely to be used at the back.
height:
10 cm
upper width:
23 cm
weight:
330 g.
depth:
16 cm
bottom width:
7 cm
capacity:
2.7 l.
The Ortlieb is a lot smaller than the 11 litres the OP was interested in.
The Smokester
10-09-07, 09:09 PM
I wanted to thank everyone responding to this thread. The replies pretty much span the issues associated with carrying stuff for long days of riding.
Normally, for commuting and short road riding I carry a spare tube and tools in a smallish under seat bag. For most day trips I am wearing a fanny pack for about 5 liters (I would guess) in which there is mainly food and clothing. This is too small in the winter time when the temperature starts out in the 40's F and then gets into the high 70's F and then rains on and off (I love riding in the rain).
For Credit card touring on my Surly LHT touring bike I use an 11 liter Arkel Tail Rider (on the rear rack) and a medium sized Ortlieb handle bar bag. This is more than adequate. I easily did a 100 mile day trip down part of the PCH here in California early this summer with just the Tail Rider. (Rode through Daly City in such a dense fog I had to use a compass at one point.)
On my new Roubaix, I would like to ditch the fanny pack and just go for a large, light, modern, well secured seat bag and the 11 liters of the Tail Rider is a good measure of an adequate volume for me.
One other constraint is the carbon seat post. The Specialized Roubaix has a feature (or gimmick, I can't tell) where there is a gel insert at four places in the frame, one in the seat post and also in the handlbars. I bought this bike for the smooth, non-buzzy ride and am worried that a different seat post would change this. So, right now I am probably not going to change out the seat post.
My first choice is still a Carradice Pendle with a Bag Man Sport Quick Release seat rack. Trouble is, no one seems to have the rack in stock. I have my local LBS chasing this down and will post as to the results. I also can use the trick of the wooden dowel that LWaB suggested. Thanks LWaB. (Nice looking fixy, BTW.)
I am thinking that the next possibility is the Carousel bag that Hezz pointed out. Thanks Hezz.
Again, thank you all for the suggestions and discussion.
Hendley
10-10-07, 03:48 AM
Please let us know how it works out Smokester; as I mentioned, I'm looking for the same thing as you with the same issues (I have the Sequoia with the same zertz insert carbon post and I'm also reluctant to downgrade!), and came to the same conclusion that the Carradice + Bagman looked like the best solution, with (now) the Carousel bag a very very close second.
I also can use the trick of the wooden dowel that LWaB suggested. Thanks LWaB. (Nice looking fixy, BTW.)
Thanks but it isn't my bike, it just shows the tweak. My fixed wheel is a '65 Moulton Stowaway. This is it in 2sp trim http://frank.harvard.edu/~coldwell/bicycle/PBP/photos/sml/moulton.jpg
hairytoes
10-10-07, 06:11 AM
I use a Carradice saddlebag. The material sounds low-tech, but isn't. It's not heavy, particularly compared to the waterproofed modern materials.
It's 100% waterproof. I've had a drinks bottle leak in mine, not a drop came through. Torrential rain that left me running with water (I had to pour it out of my gloves), and my clothes in the saddlebag were bone dry.
The Smokester
10-10-07, 08:44 AM
I use a Carradice saddlebag. The material sounds low-tech, but isn't.
The more I see these, the more I like. Hope I can find the Bag Man Sport rack to go with it.
Hendley: I will post my solution but it looks like it will take a while to track down what I want (if it still exists). Note also that a post has been started here in the LD forum on the effectiveness of the Zertz. Hoperfully, this will shed some light based on others experience.
thebulls
10-10-07, 10:22 AM
The more I see these, the more I like. Hope I can find the Bag Man Sport rack to go with it.
Hendley: I will post my solution but it looks like it will take a while to track down what I want (if it still exists). Note also that a post has been started here in the LD forum on the effectiveness of the Zertz. Hoperfully, this will shed some light based on others experience.
BagMan is not necessarily necessary :-)
If your saddle has bag loops, then just hang the Carradice from the bag loops and you're done. On my saddle (Selle-Anatomica) it touches the back of my legs if I slide back too far on my saddle. But it isn't at all disturbing. In fact, it's a little comforting because you know your bag is still there.
I'm assuming your saddle doesn't have bag loops. Then you can just buy the Carradice Saddlebag Clamp (http://www.wallbike.com/carradice/clamp.html). Way less expensive than the Bagman.
The Bagman is a little fiddly, in the sense that the bolts holding the rails sometimes come loose. I drilled mine out and tapped it for larger size bolts, then put a generous serving of LocTite on all the relevant parts. No problems since then. I do like the Bagman, but quit using it because I couldn't see the point of carrying around an extra pound plus of weight. Guess I'm still holding onto it, though, because you never know when you'll find a need to change riding style and it'll come in handy.
The Carradice bags won't add to aero drag unless they're wider than the wind shadow created by your thighs. I've also found my Carradice Lowsaddle Longflap to be completely waterproof, under the worst imaginable conditions.
The more I see these, the more I like. Hope I can find the Bag Man Sport rack to go with it.
Hendley: I will post my solution but it looks like it will take a while to track down what I want (if it still exists). Note also that a post has been started here in the LD forum on the effectiveness of the Zertz. Hoperfully, this will shed some light based on others experience.
Don't expect any definitive conclusions on the effectiveness of one seatpost versus another on comfort. There is no objective test data available that I know of. In the end it all becomes a subjective argument of what each person believes he feels. It's like the never ending frame material arguments. I do have to wonder why no manufacturer publishes any vibration test data for their products touted to reduce vibration though. I think that's telling in itself.
In any event, my experience is that vibration transmitted through the saddle is negligible compared to that felt through the handlebars - at least for any reasonably normal road riding. I would have no hesitation replacing the seatpost with aluminum for this application if I wanted to clamp on a rack.
DanielS
10-10-07, 03:19 PM
What about the Jandd Mountain Wedge III (http://jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FMW3)?
6L, expands to 7.5L. Doesn't require any fancy mounting from what I can see.
Don't expect any definitive conclusions on the effectiveness of one seatpost versus another on comfort. There is no objective test data available that I know of. In the end it all becomes a subjective argument of what each person believes he feels. It's like the never ending frame material arguments. I do have to wonder why no manufacturer publishes any vibration test data for their products touted to reduce vibration though. I think that's telling in itself.
In any event, my experience is that vibration transmitted through the saddle is negligible compared to that felt through the handlebars - at least for any reasonably normal road riding. I would have no hesitation replacing the seatpost with aluminum for this application if I wanted to clamp on a rack.
and changing out your tires will probably do more for comfort than a seatpost....
and changing out your tires will probably do more for comfort than a seatpost....
Far more.
Hendley
10-11-07, 05:04 PM
I do have to wonder why no manufacturer publishes any vibration test data for their products touted to reduce vibration though. I think that's telling in itself.
I have actually seen graphs showing the vibration damping effect in Specialized bikes, but unfortunately I can't find them now... I believe the tests were performed either by Specialized or on their behalf.
Scootcore
10-12-07, 11:02 PM
carradice bags are amazing...i havea barley and a nelson lf. pretty much water tight and totally slick. plus they just look cool as hell!!!
MichaelW
10-13-07, 05:56 AM
Carradice bags are not particularly heavy and are usually lighter than competing systems (inc all mounting hardware), esp compared to the modern system of a seatpost rack + a top bag. The design is very aerodynamic and the weight is held close to the centre of gravity for minimal effect. Side pockets can, with practice, be used on the hoof. The bags last for decades and when bits do wear out, you can get replacements. With propietry mounting systems, the mount may have changed so when one bit breaks the whole thing becomes useless.
Scootcore
10-13-07, 12:44 PM
well said Michael!!!!
I'll also be interested in if you find anything that works the way that you desire. I also like the way that the Specialized Roubaix rides, but have been reluctant to get a full-carbon bike for just this reason.
I often incoroporate early-morning, 50-70 mile rides into my morning commute to work, and need to carry my work clothes with me (they have showers on the college campus I work at). I currently use an old REI trunk bag that expands between 8.25-11 liters in volume. I also need all of that volume, especially during the cooler months when I have to carry more with me in general (thicker street-clothes, more cycling clothing, etc.). I currently ride a vintage Aluminum race bike that is outfitted with a rear rack. I would like a smoother ride, and better components, but have resisted the full-carbon frames so far.
Please keep us posted as to how your solution works out for you. Have fun out there!
Hendley
10-17-07, 08:50 PM
A little follow up from me: I just confirmed that I have been riding with a crack in my carbon fiber seatpost for the last few months, so I chucked it and replaced it with an aluminum Easton post. The break was probably due to user error on my part (overtightening the clamp before I bought a torque wrench). The good news is that I now have many more options for seatpost-mounted bags :)
As for the ride quality when going from zertz carbon to aluminum, I don't think there was much difference. It *felt* a little bit buzzier on some surfaces, and I *think* I could tell the difference in a blind ride test, but I just did 160 kms yesterday on the new post and didn't notice any more (or less) discomfort than usual. For what it's worth...
The Smokester
10-17-07, 11:22 PM
Hendley,
Your experience that the aluminum seat post makes little or no difference is very interesting. Certainly it opens up options which I may end up taking.
Meanwhile, I have been persisting with the Zertz seat post and am trying to get the Carradice Pendle bag and the Bagman Rack. Currently I have an order in on the Pendle at SJS Cycles in the UK. They haven't confirmed the order yet...Can't find any in stock in the US. Searched all the usual US suspects on the internet. Had my LBS chase all over for one including contacting the distributor. (My LBS is really great.) The original Bagman Seat Rack apparently had enough of a design defect that they have stopped making and selling them for the time being while they go through a redesign. So I will probably construct my own stabilizer similar to the one described earlier in this thread assuming SJS comes through with the bag.
Meanwhile, I took an 80 mile ride on Saturday using only my fanny pack, got caught in a brief rain squawl back in the mountains (at the farthest point) and nearly froze my *** off. Really need to get something to carry more clothes in.
A little follow up from me: I just confirmed that I have been riding with a crack in my carbon fiber seatpost for the last few months, so I chucked it and replaced it with an aluminum Easton post. The break was probably due to user error on my part (overtightening the clamp before I bought a torque wrench). The good news is that I now have many more options for seatpost-mounted bags :)
As for the ride quality when going from zertz carbon to aluminum, I don't think there was much difference. It *felt* a little bit buzzier on some surfaces, and I *think* I could tell the difference in a blind ride test, but I just did 160 kms yesterday on the new post and didn't notice any more (or less) discomfort than usual. For what it's worth...
For what it's worth, your test was not truly blind since you knew which seatpost was on the bike. In subjective tests like this, the expectations of the tester can significantly affect the results, even when the tester has the best intentions and is attempting to be honest.
However, it is worth noting that any difference that you felt appears to have been very minor.
The Smokester
10-18-07, 08:59 AM
supcom,
the expectations of the tester can significantly affect the results
I'll take expectations over reality any day. :D
alanfleisig
10-18-07, 09:53 AM
Ortlieb large seat bag. Quite large (7 or 8 liters, I think). Completely waterproof.
It has a neat little clip system that attaches to the seat rails. Only a velcro "safety" loop goes around seatpost.
Hendley
10-19-07, 03:48 AM
For what it's worth, your test was not truly blind since you knew which seatpost was on the bike.
Righty. Which is why I wrote "I think I could tell the difference..." I think it was pretty clear that I was simply reporting observations, and not test results :)
Hendley,
Your experience that the aluminum seat post makes little or no difference is very interesting. Certainly it opens up options which I may end up taking.
Meanwhile, I have been persisting with the Zertz seat post and am trying to get the Carradice Pendle bag and the Bagman Rack. Currently I have an order in on the Pendle at SJS Cycles in the UK. They haven't confirmed the order yet...Can't find any in stock in the US. Searched all the usual US suspects on the internet. Had my LBS chase all over for one including contacting the distributor. (My LBS is really great.) The original Bagman Seat Rack apparently had enough of a design defect that they have stopped making and selling them for the time being while they go through a redesign. So I will probably construct my own stabilizer similar to the one described earlier in this thread assuming SJS comes through with the bag.
Meanwhile, I took an 80 mile ride on Saturday using only my fanny pack, got caught in a brief rain squawl back in the mountains (at the farthest point) and nearly froze my *** off. Really need to get something to carry more clothes in.
which bagman, the qr or the one that attaches to the rails of the saddle? i have one that attaches to the rails, but havn't used it yet. also, does anyone have any tips on how to install the caradice saddle loops attachment to the saddle? i was able to do it, but it seemed unreasonably difficult.
The Smokester
10-19-07, 01:54 PM
which bagman, the qr or the one that attaches to the rails of the saddle?
I was specifically inquiring about the Bagman QR but got the impression that the problem applied to the non-QR as well.
Someone else has posted that "it is well know" that one needs to put Loctite on the Bagman screws to keep them from coming out. Don't know if this is the "design problem" or whether it is something else.
I found something interesting today on ebay (search for '5-Way Bag'). (I'm not in any way related to the seller). I'm almost inspired to look for something similar to try and modify.
hairytoes
10-22-07, 04:35 AM
I was specifically inquiring about the Bagman QR but got the impression that the problem applied to the non-QR as well.
Someone else has posted that "it is well know" that one needs to put Loctite on the Bagman screws to keep them from coming out. Don't know if this is the "design problem" or whether it is something else.
It's a major design problem.
The rails are go about 1/2" into sockets in an Alu casting. Grub screws press against a flat area on the rails.
The best fix I have heard of is to make a small indent in the rail, where the screw presses against it. then either use a pointed machine screw or put a ball-bearing into the hole (with screw behind it.). This will stop the rail from working out of the socket.
That said, switching from panniers to a saddlebag made a major improvement to my bike riding. Less affected by crosswinds, natural or from passing vehicles. The bag bounces and moves a bit when honking out of the saddle, but you get used to that.
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