It is simply not possible to follow HH´s vehicular cycling approach here as cyclists are generally legally obliged to use cycle paths (where they are provided and signed). Attempting to merge into car traffic at junctions would certainly be a surprise for the drivers who will never have seen anyone do this before and I don´t think their reactions would be wholly supportive. Even if you survived the numerous encounters with very angry drivers the police would soon be on your case and you would have a lot of legal problems.
What do cyclists do if there is no path? Do they ride in the street? Is it against the law to ride in the street if there is no path? Does a sidewalk automatically double as a path?
in any case there doesn´t seem to be much good evidence that I see in these discussions one way or the other.
Yeah ... although I just read a general article that referred to some interesting research. If I can find it and it differs from the typical frequency-based research, I will post something.
invisiblehand
10-08-07, 11:37 AM
perhaps, since fully half of all trips in the USA are of less than five miles,
Is that right? Certainly shorter than I imagined given the number of recreational rides in the US. That is, my anecdotal guess is that there are few dedicated transportations cyclists relative to the number of recreational/commute-only cyclists.
If most trips are really short, then a bikeway-based system might be advantageous for the population of transportation cyclists. Although, from what I gather (completely second-hand information since I have not been to Europe) the speeds in the cities are pretty slow. So if most trips are closer to five miles than say 1 mile and a Copenhagen bikeway system results in say 5 mph speeds, then just based on speculation, the bikeway system would probably be subpar to alternatives. Of course, change a few parameters and the conclusion would work out differently.
invisiblehand
10-08-07, 11:39 AM
A huge fundamental difference between Danmark and the US is that it is not legal to turn right on red (as it is in many US states). The right on red issue causes many drivers to focus their attention to the LEFt when turning right... regardless of the circumstances.
Interesting point. Although there are a lot of cities (NYC for instance) where it is illegal to turn right on a red. Sounds like we have a basis for a natural experiment.
royalflash
10-08-07, 12:28 PM
What do cyclists do if there is no path? Do they ride in the street? Is it against the law to ride in the street if there is no path? Does a sidewalk automatically double as a path?
Basically you are supposed to follow the signs - if there is a blue sign on the bike-path with a bike shown on it, that means that you have to cycle on the path. If there is no blue sign then normally an adult should cycle on the road with the other vehicles. Most bike paths however have this blue sign meaning that you have to use them ( but not all). There also has to be a blue sign placed at every junction. The only legal defences not to use a bike path under these circumstances, i.e. properly signed, are that (1) the bike path is not usable, e.g. blocked by a parked car, (2) it is unreasonable to use it, e.g. it is under a couple of feet of snow or (3) the path is not going where you want to go.
Normally a bike path or lane is dedicated more or less to bikes (marked and identifiably different from the sidewalk) but occasionally the bike path has to be shared with peds (denoted by a blue sign with people shown on it).
Although of course Munich bike paths are more suited to slow cyclists/shorter trips, the situation is not so bad as you might think. There is still scope for getting some speed up and the slower bike paths tend to be in the city centre where you wouldn´t be getting up to 60 km/hr safely anyway even on the road. once you know your way around you can certainly get around quicker than a car during rush hour.
All things considered Munich is a good place to cycle.
Bekologist
10-08-07, 10:15 PM
Is that right? Certainly shorter than I imagined given the number of recreational rides in the US. That is, my anecdotal guess is that there are few dedicated transportations cyclists relative to the number of recreational/commute-only cyclists.
If most trips are really short...
no, invisible hand, not bicycling trips, over half of ALL TRIPS away from home for people living in the USA are less than five miles. that's not limited to bicycling. I brought that up because of the unrealistic 'serious ten mile' trips mentioned. fully half of all personal trips out of the house in the USA are less than five miles.
none of this is neither here nor there when discussing transportation infrastructure in a city where bicycling trips approach 38 percent....
invisiblehand
10-09-07, 07:21 AM
no, invisible hand, not bicycling trips, over half of ALL TRIPS away from home for people living in the USA are less than five miles. that's not limited to bicycling. I brought that up because of the unrealistic 'serious ten mile' trips mentioned. fully half of all personal trips out of the house in the USA are less than five miles.
Hmmm, OK. Where is this statistic from?
If someone drives from home to a supermarket 3 miles away and back, is that one or two trips?