workout questions

[flip18436572]

A little background. I am a clyde, but I am down 100 pounds to 235. To get there I have paid attention to what I was eating (calorie counting but diet change some also). I also started exercising with the use of a heart rate monitor. My goal for 2008 is to complete and olympic distance triathlon, not to compete in one for age group, or weight class or anything like that.

Currently I am doing the following, but it is not designed for the triathlon, but just a decent work out plan that I have done on my own.

Monday - Run/jog/walk as interval training. Running is very weak for me, but I usually walk for 5 minutes at 5 mph and then for the next 3 minutes I jog at 6 mph, then I go to a range of 7.0 - 8.0 for the next three minutes, and then I go back to either the walk at 5 mph pace or jog at 6 for 2 minutes and then back to the run. I am planning on moving the run minutes up to 4 minutes and the walk/jog to 1 minutes in a few weeks. My heart rate is under 100 for the first 5 minutes of walking and then jog takes it to 120 and the run takes it to 140 -160 depending upon how long into the 50 minutes I am with the exercise. If I go back to the walk, my heart rate will usually drop about 40 BPM in the 2 minutes.

Tuesday - Elliptical for 30 - 55 minutes depending upon the schedule for the day, then I lift weights and do different ab workouts. If you want a detailed list of weight lifting, I can probably type it all out if you need it. I will also change this to lift weights for an hour and then go swimming for 30 minutes, depending upon the time schedule for me and how I feel in the morning when I get up.

Wednesday - Same as Monday, except I may make it an elliptical day, but I will change the ramp and resisitance to work myself harder. Usually burn 1500 calories in a setting by the computer.

Thursday - Same as Tuesday

Friday - Same as Monday or Wednesday

Saturday - Elliptical workout and lift weights

Sunday - Elliptical/slow jog/ or walk at 15 degrees at 5 mph on treadmill.


Is there anything wrong with the above??????

I add in bicycling to this as my time allows with my schedule.


My weight lifting is a round of everything from leg press, leg curls to bench press and arm curls. I am doing lighter weights with 15 reps or to failure depending upon the exercise. I am getting much stronger, but I am not building a lot of bulk. I want to be thinner, but still be strong. I don't want to be bulky, but still be strong.

Can I lift everyday?

[Enthalpic]

Way too much elliptical detraining, not enough cycling. The elliptical won’t make you a good cyclist or runner; it will make you good at riding a worthless machine.

[flip18436572]

OK, the elliptical is for a good workout to keep my heart rate up. I am not using it for training for the triathlon, just for the aerobic work out. Is that hurting me? You bring up a good point.

[DannoXYZ]

You might be overdoing it with insufficient rest and recovery time. In many ways, you're stuck in "no man's land" of training where you're doing too much time & distance simultaneously with not enough intensity. You're basically doing too many medium workouts. Try these 5 additional types of workouts a week:

1. INTENSITY. I would cut back on the weight-training to 1-2 days a week maximum. And you'd want to incorporate strength building workouts of 1-3 reps. What you're doing doesn't really build strength, but rather stamina and endurance. The bulking workouts are the 3-10 rep ones. On those same days, you can also do sprints (running and cycling). These are short 100% all-out efforts as hard and as fast as you can until you collapse.

2. ANAEROBIC INTERVALS. You can also do different types of intervals workouts. What you have is fine, only do one day of that. Then add anaerobic intervals of 1-2 minutes. Work at a high pace above LT that you can maintain the entire time, such as running 8mph or riding 20mph. Your HR should steadily increase (since you're above sustainable LT), like 160bpm, 170, 180, 190, 200 to maxHR. Practice learning to pace yourself so that you blow up at max-HR right at the same time you finish the 1 or 2-minute interval. Obviously, you'd ride/run slower for the 2 minute interval compared to the 1-minute interval.

3. AEROBIC INTERVALS (TEMPO). The other type of interval you'd want to do is the longer 20-minute aerobic tempo intervals. These are done at from 10% below up to LT. Sounds like this is around 150-160bpm for you. Hold it for 20-minutes, take a break for 3-5 minutes to recover below 100bpm, then do it again. You can also do this on a long hillclimb as well or an ocean swim.

4. ENDURANCE. Finally, incorporate some real endurance workouts of 2-4 hours. Replace the elliptical workouts with 1 or 2 days or real endurance. Minimum of 2-hours at a steady-pace the whole time (LSD). This could be on a run or a bike at 140-150bpm. Endurance is really about aches & pains of the body and energy-delivery. The long duration is needed to come close to depleting your glycogen supply and train your body in fat-metabolism and digesting and delivering ingested foods. If you do more than 2-hours, start eating 200-250 calories/hr and drink 500-750ml of water+electrolytes.

5. REST have a day where you do nothing, or at most, a 1-hour easy ride or hike with HR no more than 120-140rpm. Try to have two rest days a week as this is when the real building-up of your body occurs. Since you're able get by without any rest days, it shows you're really not working out hard enough.


There are so many types of workouts, repeating anything twice in one week means you've left out something critical that's more helpful in your fitness-improvement goals.

[flip18436572]

DannoXYZ - thanks for the information. One thing, I am in Iowa, so an ocean swim is not in my future. :)

But seriously, thank for the information. I will start leaving Sunday to a slow paced bike ride with the wife for an hour or so on the comfort/hybrid. I have not been tested to know what my max heart rate is, I have only done the 220 - age calculation and that puts it around 177, so I have my Polar HRM set at 160 to start flashing to tell me I have reached my highest level for my workouts.

I will only lift on Tuesday and Thursday. I am not trying to do things wrong, but I was told to work my weights up until my 15th rep was failure. This will help with the endurance, but it also building strength. I don't do any lifting with 1-3 reps at high weights. So you are saying that I should lift for an hour, and then work on running or biking sprints? Should I work on watching the heart rate, or just do a certain distance each time, and then increase the distance as I get better/stronger/faster???

Please also understand that I am not trying to become a great athlete or a professional anything and that I am still at least 40 pounds overweight and I still show it. I still have excess weight that needs to go away. I still have excess in my waist, chest and legs. It has all been improving, but it is still where it needs to be. I am really trying to lose weight by losing fat.

I will look at making some changes and see what will work with my schedule. It is hard for me to get two hours in a row to do anything, unless it is sitting in a gym watching my daughter play volleyball, basketball or outside playing tennis or pitching softball. We are on the road a lot, so getting an hour in each day has been very difficult at times.

[valygrl]

A little background. I am a clyde, but I am down 100 pounds to 235. ...

Yay for you!!!!!!

[Enthalpic]

OK, the elliptical is for a good workout to keep my heart rate up. I am not using it for training for the triathlon, just for the aerobic work out. Is that hurting me? You bring up a good point.

You would be much better served using more specific exercises. People often think of aerobic training as training the heart when really the majority of the training effect is in the muscles (improved elasticity and slow twitch fiber strength), blood vessels (increased capillarization and wall responsiveness), mitochondria (more of them, larger, more enzymes) and blood (more RBCs, hemoglobin, resistance to oxidative stress, improved deformability) – not the heart. The heart is already supremely fatigue resistance by default.

With the elliptical trainer you are not using the same muscles in the same way as you would for your goals. Yes the elliptical will burn calories, improve blood chemistries, etc but it won’t make you much better at the sport(s) you are planning on starting. High heart rate isn’t good enough; you need to prepare your body for similar demands. Bones and connective tissues take a long time to remodel – think of how long it takes broken bones to heal – so getting an early start is important. If you “train” on the elliptical all winter then ramp up sport specific work in the spring you are setting yourself up for injury, as the remodeling won’t match the demands placed on the tissues. Furthermore, the neuromuscular recruitment patterns you are developing are not advantageous.

If you had just finished a full season of single sport training I might recommend a short period of cross training for a mental break and to prevent imbalances. In this case, and with your goals, that is not a good idea as triathlons involve cross training by definition. It seems counterintuitive but triathlon demands very specific workouts, as training time in each discipline is so limited you can’t afford to waste time doing more than 3 sports or “junk” workouts.

Ditch the elliptical.

As for off season weights, break it into 3 phases each 2-3 weeks (5-8 workouts or so):

Anatomical adaptation: Use a fairly light weight that you can lift 20-30 times for 3 sets. This prepares your body for the upcoming loads.

Maximum strength: Lift very heavy weights that you can only lift 6-8 times for 2 sets. If you can lift it more than 8 times up the weight a tad.

Strength endurance: Like the AA stage but now using heavier weights than before. Then get back to specific on-bike or run training. Ditch the weights.

[flip18436572]

Yay for you!!!!!!


Thanks, it took some time, but it also took some time to put all the weight on.

[kuan]

Congratulations on your weight loss!

Few things. Never mix goals. You can lose weight and get fairly fit in the process, but you cannot train for performance and lose weight at the same time. Pick one. How long have you been training and have you been building a solid base? If you have a good base then you probably can add a little bit, VERY LITTLE, of intensity to your program. If you haven't a good base, then it's probably just better to keep doing what you're doing and enter a sprint triathlon. That's still almost 2 hours of good aerobic work for the novice. But remember, it's still a good thing to keep working on a good aerobic base even though you might have had a year of solid low intensity training under your belt. It helps you recover quicker from tough workouts and helps you race faster longer should you choose to race at that level.

Next thing, should you try to get faster, you should only add stuff one at a time. Don't try to do all three at once. Work on one thing, say bicycling. Then add running, once a week. Once you've reached what you think is a suitable goal for your ride, say 2.5 hours, you can do jog/walk intervals, ie., Gallowalking. Pick up Galloway's book on marathoning and apply those principles.

All this time you should be doing shoulder stabilization exercises and general strength. General strength and core first, and specific strength later. Shoulder stsabilization, in case you haven't done it before, is essential to your swim routine. Those heavy weeks where you're getting in eight aerobic workouts per week plus strength will be tough on your body. Those shoulders will thank you. Even running stresses the shoulders.

So that's my basic advice on how to start a tri program. If you want to lose weight keep the intensity low low low, and just finish.

BTW 6mph is very good.

[flip18436572]

Kuan - I am still losing weight at the pace I want - 2 to 3 pounds per week with my current workout plan, but I change things up as I feel comfortable. You asked how long I have been training, and I can say that I have gone from walking at 4 mph at 0 degree incline on a tread mill to my current setup over that last few years. I used a workout plan that I had discussed with a doctor and a PA, but this was just a general guide line. My cholesterol and blood work was terrible at the time, I don't have the numbers handy, but they were not deadly, but not good. It was hard on my knees at first, because I was very heavy and the walking at a speed faster than I normally walked was tough and I had been lazy for many years. I was an athlete in high school, but that was 25 years ago.

I will try and schedule some time in my schedule to do some longer riding at a decent pace. The longest ride I have had time to do was a 35 mile ride, but that is not normal to get that much free time. I did a 25 mile ride with my wife and another couple at a slower pace, but it took some time and we had to stop a few times waiting on the others.

I have just purchased a used set of rollers to use in the winter here that after talking to a few people will get boring, but it will also help my riding skills as it will help me pedal more efficiently and make my stability better.

I am not training to become a super athlete, but to become a more fit person and to be able to complete an olympic distance triathlon. I enjoy many different things, so training strictly for a triathlon may not be for me. I enjoy riding motorcycles (dirt and street), golf (walking if at all possible), basketball, racquetball, tennis, etc...

I will start looking harder at making my aerobic workouts longer in some way. When I was setting up my fitness goals with the doctor and the P/A they were probably not thinking about me getting to the point I am now, and I have not talked with either of them about my changes and where I want to go.

Thanks again for the input everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kuan]

I would say you are in better shape than most people and you're ready to add in either a little more short intensity or another type of activity. A very little goes a very long way. When I first did intervals like Danno said, just up a hill until my HR reached its max, a few times, my resting heart rate dropped like 10 beats per minute! Try that once every ten days, then sit back and reap the benefits. You'll be able to exercise at a better pace for the same HR. :D

[edzo]

just RUN

and just RIDE


drop all the other stuff

[flip18436572]

just RUN

and just RIDE


drop all the other stuff


No way will I drop all of the other stuff. I will still swim, play racquetball, tennis, golf, basketball, dirt bike riding, etc...... as I enjoy them also.

I think I will start trying to push myself a little bit harder though. I may be taking it too easy on myself. It is really windy again, but I won't be able to ride for a few days, so I think I will go on an easy two hour ride.

[ericgu]

I tend to agree with Danno - I think you are working too hard.

If you are planning on doing the triathlon, you should be most concerned about lower-level base training right now, which means spending the bulk of your time at lower heart rates. The longer exercises have more of a training effect and are generally better at weight loss.

I would skip the intervals for now. Intervals are a great way to get faster, but can compromise your base aerobic training. Intervals also act fairly quickly - you can get a nice benefit if you do them for the 4-6 weeks before you have your goal event.

The other key for intervals is that you need to be well rested enough to go really hard.

[flip18436572]

So, at what heart rate should I be training, and for what time periods? Just a rough estimate.

[DannoXYZ]

So, at what heart rate should I be training, and for what time periods? Just a rough estimate.The first step for you would be to determine your real max-HR. Without knowing your real max-HR from experimental testing, ALL training efforts with the HRM will be useless. Find your real max-HR with an accelerating sprint. Start at about 75% effort for 10-seconds, then increase effort gradually. 85-90% for the next 10-seconds, then 100% all out for 10-15 seconds until you collapse. Watch the HR monitor as max-HR should be anywhere from 5-seconds before to 5-10 seconds after you collapse.

Then work on increasing the intensity gradually. Start with the long 2-3 hour endurance rides at a steady pace first (60-70% of MHR). And also do a 2x20 aerobic tempo workout during that week as well.

Do that for a month and add the shorter, more intense intervals. After a month, add the sprints. Remember, these are done on different days. Be sure to get 1-2 rest days per week. It's better to do nothing and sit around watching TV than to go too hard on a rest day.

[edzo]

No way will I drop all of the other stuff. I will still swim, play racquetball, tennis, golf, basketball, dirt bike riding, etc...... as I enjoy them also.

I think I will start trying to push myself a little bit harder though. I may be taking it too easy on myself. It is really windy again, but I won't be able to ride for a few days, so I think I will go on an easy two hour ride.


oh sorry

I forgot there is a world out there that doesn't involve biking

[mtnwalker]

You might be overdoing it with insufficient rest and recovery time. In many ways, you're stuck in "no man's land" of training where you're doing too much time & distance simultaneously with not enough intensity. You're basically doing too many medium workouts. Try these 5 additional types of workouts a week:

1. INTENSITY. I would cut back on the weight-training to 1-2 days a week maximum. And you'd want to incorporate strength building workouts of 1-3 reps. What you're doing doesn't really build strength, but rather stamina and endurance. The bulking workouts are the 3-10 rep ones. On those same days, you can also do sprints (running and cycling). These are short 100% all-out efforts as hard and as fast as you can until you collapse.

2. ANAEROBIC INTERVALS. You can also do different types of intervals workouts. What you have is fine, only do one day of that. Then add anaerobic intervals of 1-2 minutes. Work at a high pace above LT that you can maintain the entire time, such as running 8mph or riding 20mph. Your HR should steadily increase (since you're above sustainable LT), like 160bpm, 170, 180, 190, 200 to maxHR. Practice learning to pace yourself so that you blow up at max-HR right at the same time you finish the 1 or 2-minute interval. Obviously, you'd ride/run slower for the 2 minute interval compared to the 1-minute interval.

3. AEROBIC INTERVALS (TEMPO). The other type of interval you'd want to do is the longer 20-minute aerobic tempo intervals. These are done at from 10% below up to LT. Sounds like this is around 150-160bpm for you. Hold it for 20-minutes, take a break for 3-5 minutes to recover below 100bpm, then do it again. You can also do this on a long hillclimb as well or an ocean swim.

4. ENDURANCE. Finally, incorporate some real endurance workouts of 2-4 hours. Replace the elliptical workouts with 1 or 2 days or real endurance. Minimum of 2-hours at a steady-pace the whole time (LSD). This could be on a run or a bike at 140-150bpm. Endurance is really about aches & pains of the body and energy-delivery. The long duration is needed to come close to depleting your glycogen supply and train your body in fat-metabolism and digesting and delivering ingested foods. If you do more than 2-hours, start eating 200-250 calories/hr and drink 500-750ml of water+electrolytes.

5. REST have a day where you do nothing, or at most, a 1-hour easy ride or hike with HR no more than 120-140rpm. Try to have two rest days a week as this is when the real building-up of your body occurs. Since you're able get by without any rest days, it shows you're really not working out hard enough.


There are so many types of workouts, repeating anything twice in one week means you've left out something critical that's more helpful in your fitness-improvement goals.

Danno, those are great tips. Can you replace the BPM to HR percentages? I would like to try what you suggested but I would like to customize it to my own MHR. Thanks in advance.