Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Wheelbuilding

How hard is it exactly to learn how to build up wheels? I need new front and rear wheels for a fixed gear bike I'm building up and I am debating whether I should just invest in some tools and supplies rather than buy finished wheels. From the article on Sheldon Brown's site, it doesn't seem to be too difficult. Any thoughts on this?

I picked up the "Wheel Building" book back in 1995, read it cover to cover in one day, laced & trued my first front road wheel radially (very easy) the very next day, and built & trued my rear wheel 3-cross the next. I had so much confidence, the following week, I completely rebuilt my tandem wheelset with new hubs. I've been building my owns wheels ever since. Nice thing is they RARELY need to be re-trued. Maybe tweek a spoke or two here and there from time to time.

What you can do, and what I plan to do is to buy a junk bike, and dissasemble the wheels and then re do them. Cheap, easy way to learn.

Originally posted by William Karsten
What you can do, and what I plan to do is to buy a junk bike, and dissasemble the wheels and then re do them. Cheap, easy way to learn.
Yes, one can do that, but also need to really pay attention to the direction of rim eyelets when lacing spokes, for example.... The book also teaches you which and how to lace the 'first set' of spokes, which is very important.....after that the rest of the spokes just fall into place.

Originally posted by George
Yes, one can do that, but also need to really pay attention to the direction of rim eyelets when lacing spokes, for example.... The book also teaches you which and how to lace the 'first set' of spokes, which is very important.....after that the rest of the spokes just fall into place.

I forgot to add that I was going to get a book to read and be guided by.

Trying it on my own, I'd have and eliptical wheel :D !

And it's good to have that book handy because sometimes I'll go thru several months of not building a single wheel and when it comes to lacing that 'first set' of spokes, I always go back to that one page in the book to make sure I'm still doing it right.

George, is _The Art of Wheelbuilding_ by Gerd Schraner the book you are referring to us here?

Thanks for your advice.

I like the Gerd Schraner book better than the Jobst Brant book. It is easier to follow tho both are good.

Which book? I need a new hobby for the upcoming winter

The Art of Wheel Building ought to do yah for. It's up to date, and easy to read. I saw they had it at overstock.com for 12.95 the other day.

It's more up to date the the book by Jobst Brant.

Originally posted by 165-48:17
Which book (most recent version) is the best? I need a new hobby for the upcoming winter

what tools would you need to build a wheel?

I beleive all you need is a spoke wrench and a truing stand.

Originally posted by 165-48:17
Which book (most recent version) is the best? I need a new hobby for the upcoming winter

Okay-
I suck. Please disregard the multiple quotes I have posted.

165 -- Seems they are recommending The Art of Wheel Buildling. :) What I have been curious about is how do you get the spokes? Do they come ready to go in different lengths or do you have to make them or what??

My friend had his track wheels built by Gene Spicer (28-spoke Phils and CXP-33s) and the front is laced 1x. I had never seen that before and it is pretty cool looking.. (That's just a by the way.)

-Jason

Originally posted by Grunk
I beleive all you need is a spoke wrench and a truing stand.

....and patience.......and beer. (a dishing tool is good to have but you can easily make your own)

I don't remember which book I have.....it's the white hardcovered one. I'll look when I get home tonight.....

Originally posted by jasonyates
What I have been curious about is how do you get the spokes?
I tell my LBS which hubs & rims I have and the spoking pattern I plan on using. Also type and gauge of spokes. They sell me the right lengths. Brass nipples are included with spokes. I let them do the spoke length calculations..... I usually just call ahead of time so they'll be ready.....

I'm gonna have to run into you one of these days George...

Originally posted by William Karsten
I'm gonna have to run into you one of these days George...
Yeah, I hear ya..... I'm near Dodger Stadium in L.A. The majority of my riding is done in the Pasadena area. On occasion I'll take the San Gabriel River path down to Seal Beach, hug the coast all the way down to Laguna Beach, have lunch, and head back up. How about you?

Originally posted by jasonyates
165 -- Seems they are recommending The Art of Wheel Buildling. :) What I have been curious about is how do you get the spokes? Do they come ready to go in different lengths or do you have to make them or what??

My friend had his track wheels built by Gene Spicer (28-spoke Phils and CXP-33s) and the front is laced 1x. I had never seen that before and it is pretty cool looking.. (That's just a by the way.)

-Jason I highly recommend the Art of Wheelbuilding. Excellent book.

As far as spoke lengths, the DT Swiss website has a calculater with most rims and hubs already in. Otherwise, just plug in the numbers for your parts and you are set.

Originally posted by George
Yeah, I hear ya..... I'm near Dodger Stadium in L.A. The majority of my riding is done in the Pasadena area. On occasion I'll take the San Gabriel River path down to Seal Beach, hug the coast all the way down to Laguna Beach, have lunch, and head back up. How about you?
I do a lot of back and forth to work... I take different routes to mix it up a little hear and there.

I'm in a school right now.. so I've been driving to work for the last 3 weeks. Gettin' fat and lazy...

I like riding the 94 from Spring Valley out towards Campo.. REALLY serious hills there. PLENTY hills.

I take the coaster up to LA on occasion, I'm gonna go to Venice sometime soon to hang out there for a while..


Once I get my new cog in, I'll be playing with my converted more probably down town.

I ride up to point loma often.. and have done several fast rides down the strand (coronado to IB) and back.

I'm working on two MTB's from multi to SS. And then I'll play with those.

I was thinking of using my project bike here to learn how to build wheels, but I decided to play it safe with my main set and just drop them off at the shop. I'm getting them tied/soldered too, although from what I read it isn't really worth it.

Perhaps I will get some cheaper practice stuff and learn how to build over the winter..

-Jason

Jason, what rims did you decide on for your Miyata?

Tie and solder makes a stronger wheel but most people are not willing to pay for it. You can feel the difference if you ride them side by side.

Well the theme of this bike has been building it on cheap deals that I find around, and as such I am using some Ambrosio Balance rims that I got from eBay new for $47 for the pair. I hope they are a decent rim, I honestly mostly got them just because I liked how they looked though. A nice plain silver rim with a little black logo, and of course they were pretty inexpensive too.

Chuck, altogether I am paying this guy $100 to do the wheels. More than I original thought I would spend, but this guy (Woody from Upgrade for those in Chicago) supposedly does really nice work so...

-Jason

I like Upgrade a lot...great shop!
Never done me wrong...good stuff, good staff, helpful. Very City-bike minded (i.e.-Messenger freindly, fixed/track-friendly, etc)
They are tied for #1 in my book for Chicago shops with Yojimbo's.

Overstock has the Art of Wheelbuilding for 12.39, and shipping is 2.95 on all orders right now.

$100 for two wheels with tie and solder is a good deal, esp. if he spoke washers the hubs(If they are used. I also polish the hubs while the spokes are out)

"Tie and solder makes a stronger wheel but most people are not willing to pay for it. You can feel the difference if you ride them side by side."

Thanks, but that doesn't really help me, I usually ride my wheels one in front of the other...

jason and 165 - as for best wheelbuilders in chicago - go talk with jason stroden at johnny sprockets on broadway... hes done 3 sets for me - wonderful stuff

Originally posted by George
....and patience.......and beer. (a dishing tool is good to have but you can easily make your own)



How does one make their own dishing tool?

Originally posted by fubar5
How does one make their own dishing tool?

Very easy....
Before I invested in a nice wheelsmith unit, I made one using a long piece of 1 x 2 oak with a fine threaded bolt running right down the middle as an adjustable axle gauge. The two opposite ends of oak had additional layers of scrap wood glued on to butt up against the outer diameters of the rim. Worked very effectively, I really didn't need to buy one...... but I guess I eventually wanted the real thing!
If I still have this homemade tool laying around somewhere, I'll post photo this evening.

Just to echo that that is already said, the Art of Wheel Building, has been and invaluable asset to my bike literature. I too built my first wheel and then with the confidence when to try my hand at a rear fixed, it is in it's third season, while one I bought from the LBS got trashed.

I got in a discussion with my LPS babe about my fixed gear building, as she was of the opinion I had built the weel wrong, due to it's asymmitry(?). I put forth the thought that since the wheel had to preform as a flip flop I had to build it with the drive side on both sides of the wheel. She looked at it and finally concurred. i haven't tried to build a freewheel rear. I do want to try a radial, none crossed front wheel. With the weight I carry, a radial wheel would taco, at least I am afraid it would.

ok, just thought i'd chime in here...

i won't claim to be the best wheel-builder, and i have never read a book or had anyone show me much of anything (read some of Sheldon's website)...

and i don't have a truing stand...

and often pre-built wheels are not so expensive, but mainly for the experience and fun i have built about half of my wheels for the last few years.

just last week: the rear rim on my old MTB (commuter) had cracked and i had already bought a new rim for my FS MTB... so i put the new rim on the MTB (with new spokes) and took the old rim off and rebuilt it with the old hub and old spokes (both 32 hole 3x). the whole job took me about 3 hours including the truing of both wheels (the used rim was not so easy to true and i also had a broken spoke and no new ones - it was sunday)

last summer i built my rear wheel for my MTB and it lasted until the rims were worn true from braking... and then rear rim i took off i also built up last April (hard abuse from extreme trails but not one broken spoke)

anyway, a book is probably a good idea, but you can also do it if you have another wheel for reference and lace up the new wheel/hub like the one lying around (this works for me as i have 4 bikes, most of which have 32hole 3x - one of my fronts is 26 radial but that's easy)

oh yeah, i also just go to the bike shop and show them the rim and hub and let them measure/select the spokes...

if you can true a wheel, then you basically just need a bunch of patience: you have to get the lacing right (and verify _before_ you add all the spokes or start truing)... lastly you need a feel for how tight to make the spokes.

in the end i'm not sure if i save much as it takes me well over an hour to build a new wheel and new prebuilts can be cheap (although re-using saves some i guess)

Just recieved The Art of Wheelbuilding in the mail today..Just flipping through I can tell it a good book.

naisme, I believe that for a non-drive zero dish wheel, like a front, radial lacing makes the strongest wheel. It is harder on the hub and rim.

Originally posted by al5
jason and 165 - as for best wheelbuilders in chicago - go talk with jason stroden at johnny sprockets on broadway... hes done 3 sets for me - wonderful stuff

do they run classes? Turin in E-town used to (still does on occasion). I'd prefer to be shown than dish out the cash. I have my new track bike parts all ready to go (cept the frame) so I can have a new sled for next spring. I will either try myself and if that fails, Marcus @ Yojimbo's will be doing the honors. Thanks for the heads up on J Sprockets though...always good to hear!

Rev, that is what I have heard. I have 2 sets of Rolf Vectors that have held up to the stresses I put them through, no, I'm not using them as a SS or fixed set, that is a thought though.

I have had this thought of cutting the amount of spokes in a wheel build in a geometric progression to see what might happen. Schraner gave me the idea in the book. I haven't gone so far as tying and sodering yet. I am just enjoying the "zen" of building a wheel that I use on a daily basis.

A couple of notes on tools. I like having that off set screwdriver, or "nipple driver." Iat just makes a wheel build so much better, and with carpel tunnel you aren't agrevating it with the spoke wrench. USE LINSEED OIL, it's an inexpensive nipple cream and just as good, only draw back is for the same price for nipple creame you get a gallon of Linseed oil.

165: no classes out of sprockets - but jason runs some out of his back porch in logans square :) (which now also happens to be dumpstervegans back porch - since he moved in over the weekend)

good luck with the build!

Theres an old school way of building a track wheel with some radial spoking on the drive wheel.

yeah, you spoke the drive side 3-cross or whatever, and the non-drive side radially. i've seen this done on a few setups. i don't really know what the implications are... it seems to me that at least some of the power is transmitted to the non-drive side via the hub, and the non-drive side basically has no spokes that can distribute it to the rim...

it looks pretty cool though.

Guys, I mis-typed my post. I meant to say some, not all, radial spoking on the drive side of the hub (gear side). Its one of the coolest looking spoking patterns I have ever seen. It must be done with a 36-hole hub. Basicly what you do is group the spokes in 3's. The center spoke is radial. The two outer spokes get crossed with each other. I'll try to find a pic.

Is that "crow's foot"? It does look cool.

Rev. I did a little looking around and yes, it is the crows foot.

I think with my massive twenty foot sprint, skip stops and the ease of building a simple cross I would just as soon build a three cross. I get enough funky builds from my wife, she likes all the odd build patterns. "Oh' do an alternating two cross/radial with a twist at the cross".