Mountain Biking - avid BB7 or hydraulic disc???

i want a new front disc and am not sure wether to get the new avid ball bearing 7 or a hydraulic disc brake?
reviews say that the avid is easier than a hydraulic and just as powerful. also, im not a mechanic to say the least so d have to bear tht in mind.

I'm gunning for BB7s myself. I've heard they are very good brakes. I think the reason why mechanical discs have such a bad rep is because they install the cheapest of the cheaps on low end hardtails and those really do suck.

You may have slightly better performance on some high end hydros, but is that worth spending more than double the price you would on BB7's? Also, I'm fond of the whole not having goo in my brakelines thing, should (God forbid) anything go wrong on the trail.

That said, my experience with disc brakes goes as far as some really cheap "Winzip" (generic) discs on my old beater bike and a few test rides with nicer ones. I'm just relaying what I've gathered from research on this subject. I'll probably be rocking some BB7s in a couple months once my bank account recharges from "new bike shock."

Depends on what hydro you are comparing the bb7 to. I am assuming if it is price range to price range the comparisson is to low end hayes etc. If thats your pricepoint, get the bb7's.

Otherwise if you are just trying to cheap out but have the 3 to 4 hundred bucks to spend, hydros are better.

Definately go with the bb7s because i just got a set of the 160mm and i've had them for about a week and they are pretty much broken in. They stop very well but are pretty noisy brakes but it seems like all avids are. Also my friend has juicy 5's and they stop very well and he hasnt had any problems with them. So pretty much bottom line i would go with a bb7 but with a bigger disc and they will stop even better.

-Tim

It all depends on what you ride. But if you had rim brake before, then I suggest you just get BB7. You don't even need a new lever. Hydraulics has its good points but its a pain to setup sometimes and you might have to bleed it too. It doesn't give more stopping power but it will add weight to it.

It all depends on what you ride. But if you had rim brake before, then I suggest you just get BB7. You don't even need a new lever. Hydraulics has its good points but its a pain to setup sometimes and you might have to bleed it too. It doesn't give more stopping power but it will add weight to it.

jesus h christ. Why do people think its so hard to set up. Almost all systems come preblead so you literally have to remove grip and shifter, put on level, put on shifter (maybe reversed depends on your preferred setup) put on brake, zip tie appropriately, centre caliper and done.

Bleeding takes less time (for me anyways) then doing the yearl replace relubing of cables and lines. With hayes it takes about 3 minutes. I haven't had to redo my avids yet, in two years

Not more power...I won't even cover this one, thats just dumbass bull****.

Also to take full advantage of the bb7's "modulation" you need the matching lever. Yes, a standard lever will work, but you won't get that special warm feeling like touching a hydro brake

and yes, I own both types several times over. Hayes, hayes 9's, bb5's, bb7's and avid juicy 5's.

i want a new front disc and am not sure wether to get the new avid ball bearing 7 or a hydraulic disc brake?
reviews say that the avid is easier than a hydraulic and just as powerful. also, im not a mechanic to say the least so d have to bear tht in mind.

hydraulic

I had bikes with hydraulic but now run BB7 in all bikes. Hydraulics do have a better feel, even cheap hydraulics as Deore or Hayes that compete in price with BB7s. The nice thing about BB7s is that you never have pads rubbing the rotor and you can definitely fix anything that might go wrong. In my case having the same brakes in all bikes makes maintenance easier and more efficient. BB7s are a good brake to standardize when you have more than one bike.

In my case having the same brakes in all bikes makes maintenance easier and more efficient.

I dunno about easier, it's mostly a matter of reading the instructions and noting the differences between brands and models.

But having the same brake on every bike does have the advantage of allowing part swapping if you're in a pinch... brake components, wheelsets, etc.

not really reading anyone elses posts... but i got some bb7s. had some trouble getting them to work on my hub, i bought an adapter and after they got broken in, well now to say the least they are amazing. they give the mechanic feel that no hydrolic break can give, yet you can stop on a dime and do all the endos you want :)

not really reading anyone elses posts...

not really surprised...


they give the mechanic feel that no hydrolic break can give

Um yeah, that's called cable friction.

Definately go with the bb7s because i just got a set of the 160mm and i've had them for about a week and they are pretty much broken in. They stop very well but are pretty noisy brakes but it seems like all avids are. Also my friend has juicy 5's and they stop very well and he hasnt had any problems with them. So pretty much bottom line i would go with a bb7 but with a bigger disc and they will stop even better.

-Tim

Wow..........

I will post the best advice so far in this thread:

Get the "BB7" because the name is easier to spell than "hydraulic".

I almost forgot how much i like the mtb drawer of this forum :p

i used to run bb7 but now i have juicy 5s i got cheep on ebay, they don't seem much more powerful, but i really like the feel alot better, i feel like i have more control, and more modulation, but if it was me the biggest thing would be that i wouldn't want 1 mech and 1 hydrolic the feel is just way to different, but i really love my juicys

Thread cleaned up.

yepp, juicy 3's or 5's will do ya good. I'm gonna get some juicy 3/5's off of ebay too:).

Thread cleaned up.

Booooooo!!!!!!!

Booooooo!!!!!!!

You're not going to break out the wet noodle again are you??? :o

yepp, juicy 3's or 5's will do ya good. I'm gonna get some juicy 3/5's off of ebay too:).

I was about to call bull**** on the juicy 3's...

haha I didn't even know they made juicy 3's hahaha

It all depends on your needs. I raced DH on 8" BB7s last year and they were a vast improvement over what I'd had before. But I made the switch to hydros this year (Hayes Mag HDs) and I really felt that difference too. For racing, I won't go back to mechanicals. But I wouldn't rule out putting them on a trail bike.

you know, i was lookin at those brakes too.. but, i came across this... so, if anyone can explain this to a newbie, please do... :)

http://www.spadout.com/store.php?stpr_id=8068

http://www.spadout.com/store.php?stpr_id=8070

the 1st link states Avid ball bearing disc brake, while the 2nd states Avid BB7 mechanical disc.. whats the difference?.. i went to the SRAM site and didn't see the 'Avid ball bearing' model listed...

avid cable operated are not as powerful as high-end hydraulics, BUT

they are very damn powerful and are easy to maintain and setup and all that.
and...no goop


but hydros are the king of super-sensitive 'barely touch them and full lock'
but you don't need brakes -that- nasty sensitive unless you simply prefer it


avid 'BB' stand for ball bearing...could be the same brake

I have to push for some hydraulic Hayes 9's. Mine are quiet, sticky and smooth to operate.

And for what its worth, their customer service is really good too.

I'm gunning for BB7s myself. I've heard they are very good brakes. I think the reason why mechanical discs have such a bad rep is because they install the cheapest of the cheaps on low end hardtails and those really do suck.
they are, and that is from personal experience

I've run the Avid mechanicals as well as a set of Hayes hydraulics and a set of Hope hydraulics. The Hopes are far and away the best brakes of the bunch, but they are also the most expensive. The Avid mechanicals are good brakes, but I'm too lazy to clean and replace my cables - especially in the winter. Therefore, hydros are the only brake for me now.

I'm running the Hope Mono Minis on 2 bikes now - great stuff!

... Brad

None of the hydraulic brakes that I've used have ever exhibited this "super-sensitive barely touch them and full lock" behavior that you describe.

Which hydraulic brakes that you have used exhibited that behavior?


I was wondering the same thing.

My avid mechs are a capable brake and get the job done, but don't feel nearly as nice as a good set of hydros.

If you have the cash, spring for the hydros. Mechs aren't as good despite what people say. People advocate what they own often at the expense of all others (usually to make them feel better about their own gear)....don't be fooled by this bias.

The discussion should be about rotor size and not mech vs hydro.

While we are at it though: Avids are fine - strong, good modulation and more adjustibility than hydrodros. Hydros generally have the edge in edge however.

The discussion should be about rotor size and not mech vs hydro.

.


Why?

My hydraulic discs are easy to maintain (easier than cable discs in fact) and...no goop.



None of the hydraulic brakes that I've used have ever exhibited this "super-sensitive barely touch them and full lock" behavior that you describe.

Which hydraulic brakes that you have used exhibited that behavior?


I rode a DH Pro's pump track bike one day and just touched the brakes and they were insanely set up.

honestly, almost no pressure with your pinkie and they would lock. you could modulate them of course, they weren't set up with resin or anything...but gawd the pads and disc were mated well. they were some hayes, don't know the model. could'a been prototypes or customs. huge rotor, like 9 inches

Sorry - I meant the edge in weight and regarding Avids, of which I was referrring to the BB7s - the most ubiquitous and also the one of heaviest set of brakes ever.

From personal experience using Formulas, Martas, Hayes 6 and 8" rotors, Avid BB7 and Hayes Mechanical, I can tell you that the most adjustable is the BB7. I love the dial to set the pad distance. As most of you know, the pads drag from time to time, particularly when you are traversing gnarly sh1t. So I appreciate the on-the-fly adjustment without tools. However this is a matter of personal preference.

Regarding stopping power, I believe that the cables have the edge in consistancy. I've had hydros boil over on long DH descents. (Mt Whistler, A-Line.) When hydros fade, they take longer to return to normal because the brake oil becomes heated, in my experience.

What is not up for discussion is the superior power of 8" rotors in the areas brake fade resistance. If the bike is used for long DH descents then I would advise 8" rotors due to brake fade issues. 8" doesn't modulate as well as 6". Larger rotors give you that ;on-off; feeling.

Taking a step back from all of this, the real issue is traction. You can have dual caliper 12" rotors but if you are using slicks in a muddy course then you are farked anyway. By far tires are the most important part of the braking equation since most brakes made since 2000 don't really suck and give you the power that you need.

So you have to manually adjust the pad distance on the BB7s vs. being unable to adjust the pad distance on most hyrdaulic brakes (because it's automatic). I don't see how that's an advantage.

My Louises were adjustable compared to my Hopes, but it certainly wasn't an advantage.




The only time my pads drag is when I smack them on a rock or something and bend the rotor. That's easily fixed. If the rotor is straight and the caliper is properly mounted, my pads don't drag when traversing "gnarly sh|t."



You had bad fluid then. Time to bleed!

Dude are you just belligerent are do you really care that much?
As stated adjustibility was a matter of personal preference. Pads dragging? YMMV. I have BB7s on a rigid cross bike and it happens from time to time. Time to bleed? Perhaps, but cables don't need to be bled. I don't have a pro-cable or anti-hydro agenda - just stating my experience. Afterall, all this is anecdotal BS since I might just as well be a fake rider hiding under the guise of being a Internet DH badass. You might be a cranky old man that never rides and prefers to lambaste others for their experiences that differ from yours. Isn't that why we take things from the Internet with a grain of salt?

You might be a cranky old man that never rides and prefers to lambaste others for their experiences that differ from yours. Isn't that why we take things from the Internet with a grain of salt?


No one will argue with you about the cranky part, but I assure you that he rides plenty, probably as much or more than anyone on this forum. Once you get past the "cranky" part you will be amazed at the amount of information he has to offer.

You just made me cry. Emo tear.

Afterall, all this is anecdotal BS . . . .Ah, but there are varying degrees of value that one can assign; some is more anecdotal than BS.

What question? I had trouble wading through your verbal sludge.

As noted above, you seem to be a bit sensitive for the internet.

If noting your misconceptions is "verbal sludge" (verbal? Look it up...) then so be it.

Here's the question that you dodged:

I thought this was happening on hydraulic brakes and that was why the adjustability of BB7s was an advantage?

I use hydraulic brakes on DH bikes with 20mm through-axles, which don't flex. Therefore there is no rotor rub. I use BB7's on a bike with QR20 and also a cross bike. In the latter two, hard bumps will often move the wheel skewer slightly off axis which results in minor rubbing.

There are other reasons to want adjustibility: on technical rides that are slow, I like the short pull on the levers. On a long descent, I like to loosen it up so that I can pull the lever close to the bar for comfort during extended braking.

I'm not sure why I'm entertaining your so much today. Afterall I prefaced my statements by saying that it was a matter of personal preference. Maybe you enjoy tautological reasoning.

There are other reasons to want adjustibility: on technical rides that are slow, I like the short pull on the levers. On a long descent, I like to loosen it up so that I can pull the lever close to the bar for comfort during extended braking.


Do you really get off the bike and adjust the pads when you encounter different terrain? That sounds like a real pain in the ass.

Gerbil Sludge?

Lever reach can be adjusted on hydraulic brakes.


Yup, I have to turn a little knob on my Juicy 7's, takes all of about five seconds to adjust both levers. I like to have my levers close to the bars (seems to help with my carpel tunnel) so reach adjustment is important to me. However, once I set it up the first time I never have to mess with it again.

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg

Lever reach can be adjusted on hydraulic brakes.

As far as adjusting lever reach for different ride speeds:

Wow!


How come you find it surprising that lever reach would be adjusted for different ride speeds? Isn't that what the "pad contact point" type knobs are for -- so that you can adjust lever reach on the fly for different terrain? Or is it that you are surprised that he would adjust it on the bb7s?

Because I've never done it and none of the folks that I have ever ridden with have adjusted their lever reach for different ride speeds. "Hang on a seconds, we're coming up on a fast section and I need to adjust my levers!"

Heh heh. I see.


On the BB7sboth knobs are adjusted to correct for pad wear. The outer knob adjusts lever travel.

Can't you use the barrell adjuster to adjust lever travel also?


I'm surprised that anyone would change lever reach based upon speed or terrain.

I hardly ever adjust my levers on either my K24s or Juicy 7s. I always say I'm going to before or during a ride but I forget. It seems mostly unnecessary but I want to make myself feel better about dropping the extra cash for the adjustment knobs.

Though I must admit that the K24s have pretty cool adjustment knobs (and great levers), way cooler than the Juicy 7s in my opinion.

On an unrelated note, how are aftermarket rotors? For instance, can I use a XTR rotor on Avids?

On an unrelated note, how are aftermarket rotors? For instance, can I use a XTR rotor on Avids?

Doing so voids all warranties and invalidates any applicable health insurance coverage.

Doing so voids all warranties and invalidates any applicable health insurance coverage.

Why?

Because it's as dangerous as mixing aftermarket brake pads with your vehicle's OEM rotor.

Because it's as dangerous as mixing aftermarket brake pads with your vehicle's OEM rotor.

Wow.........did you get my PM?