Commuting - What is the best quality Dutch Bike?

Does anyone know WHICH Dutch commuter bike is the best built?


Pashley, Jorge and Olif, Gazelle, Azor, Batavus... ???


I have been picking up that the Azor and Gazelle models are the Bee's Knees as of so far...although mentioning of Batavus as a best all around value that will hold up just as well.


The Secret Service Azor model caught my interest for being a little bit sportier (lighter, tighter geometry with smaller tire thickness). Not so sure if it is as elegant as the traditional models, however.


Main keys that I am seeking are:


Lasts forever and a day with lowest possible maintenance

Rust proofed pieces throughout

Comfy for my injured back

Fully enclosed chainguard

The headlight and rear lamp powered by an internal front hub

Best possible quality made rear rack (maybe the front one many Dutch people tend to use)

the nifty rear white colored fender :)




Brakes & gear combos I am still a little less sure of?


The 7 spd models tend to have a drum style brake of some type up front? Good for all weather? & have a coaster brake.

The 8spd (likely my 1st choice) has the drums or similar and they usually refer to this bike as top of line "deluxe"

Then you have the 3spd, and at a grand for the bike anyway...I tend to think it would be best value to go for the 7 or 8 spd.

If the bike itself is of high quality, despite lacking a few items like more gears and the "hub" generator light, I cannot help but find the Jorge and Olif "Scout" attractive with a more reasonable $500 price. Still rust proofed and commute ready. Maybe 3 spds would do the job. Even outlast the other Nexus 7 and 8 spds?

Researching, researching...

Thanks,

Kenny

My first choice would be the Quitmann Big Apple Rohloff. http://www.quitmann-ms.de/eng/big_apple.html

Not sure if it's Dutch or German, but I love this bike. I think it's about 2000.00US though...maybe more.

Love 'em all, but I'd go with the Gazelles because their fender flaps are as big as pingpong paddles.

Koga Miyata do some lightweight, high tech interpretations of the classic Dutch roadster.

I'm with MichaelW. Koga Miyata makes THE best bikes in the Netherlands, hands down. It makes a Gazelle look like a Wallymart bike (and my wife has a Gazelle, so I can assure you that a Gazelle in itself is a great bike)
You may have to wait for your long lost millionaire uncle's inheritance to be able to afford one though, because they are pricey. Take a look at this one: http://www.koga.com/nl/bike.asp?collectionid=8&segmentid=66&id=9941829. How many bikes do you know that cost about $19,000?

Duppie

The Azor I picked up in July and have put over 1,000 miles on has continued to impress me each day I saddle up. The Dutch Bike Company put it together around the traditional Dutch frame.

Here's a response to your requirements checklist:

Lasts forever and a day with lowest possible maintenance: I've cleaned the chain twice in 1,000 miles, moved the rear hub back once to account for chain stretch around the internal hub, and that's it.

Rust proofed pieces throughout: I haven't had the ride long enough to say. Edit: You;d have to ask the Dutch Bicycle Company...

Comfy for my injured back: ahhh...

Fully enclosed chainguard: no go, but obviosuly could be added (Velo Orange sells a nice one or you could go for that Hebie glide)

The headlight and rear lamp powered by an internal front hub: check (Lumotec front headlight - super bright - and an LED back light in the fender)

Best possible quality made rear rack (maybe the front one many Dutch people tend to use): solid as a rock - carries a Rivendell Paladin loaded to the gills, tent, sleeping bags and other camping supplies without complaining (maybe 40 lbs?)

the nifty rear white colored fender :) : check (see pics below)

And here's where you can see shots of my Azor 108:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2007/cc368-ricksmith0907.html

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/images3/cc368-2azor_108_2.jpg

The Azor I picked up in July and have put over 1,000 miles on has continued to impress me each day I saddle up. The Dutch Bike Company put it together around the traditional Dutch frame.

Here's a response to your requirements checklist:

Lasts forever and a day with lowest possible maintenance: I've cleaned the chain twice in 1,000 miles, moved the rear hub back once to account for chain stretch around the internal hub, and that's it.

Rust proofed pieces throughout: I haven't had the ride long enough to say. Edit: You;d have to ask the Dutch Bicycle Company...

Comfy for my injured back: ahhh...

Fully enclosed chainguard: no go, but obviosuly could be added (Velo Orange sells a nice one or you could go for that Hebie glide)

The headlight and rear lamp powered by an internal front hub: check (Lumotec front headlight - super bright - and an LED back light in the fender)

Best possible quality made rear rack (maybe the front one many Dutch people tend to use): solid as a rock - carries a Rivendell Paladin loaded to the gills, tent, sleeping bags and other camping supplies without complaining (maybe 40 lbs?)

the nifty rear white colored fender :) : check (see pics below)

And here's where you can see shots of my Azor 108:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2007/cc368-ricksmith0907.html

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/images3/cc368-2azor_108_2.jpg

That is a lovely bike. No doubt at all.

I am looking for more tradtional form with the albatross bars and a Brooks or leather, or water proof saddle.

I forgot about the kick stadn that is placed under the bike to aide in loading or placing a child in a seat.

Boy, there is so many neat little pieces to these bikes that I forget to list them all.

Does anyone know, with the exception of obvious lack of range, if the 3 spd bikes such as the Jorge and Olif Scout are just as relaibel as the 7 and 8 spd nexus units?

Also wondering, with the exception of being with a few less "thrills"...if the frames and wheels, etc are of the same caliber of quality as Jorge and Olif's higher line models?

djkenny,
Seems like you really want a Dutch style bike, not necessarily a Dutch-made bike. In that case my vote goes to the Jorge and Olif.
Let me point out a few things (born and raised in the Netherlands myself, I feel I have some authority on this subject)
1. It only comes in black. Any other colors are considered sacrilege
2. You should order the 'Oma fiets' whether you are a men or women. In the Netherlands you will see a lot of men riding step thru models, because it just adds to the comfort.
3. About the white fender. It is not unusual for these bikes to have a handpainted job on the fender. If you really want to go with the pristine fenders, I see that J&O has them on their higher end models. Maybe they can get you one of those fenders?
4. Once you get the bike, you HAVE to take somebody for a ride. Just let your passenger sit on the rack, with both legs to on side. If you want to to be truly Dutch, have your passenger hop on while you are riding. It requires a little skill, but it looks very cool if you can do that.

As to your question on quality, and having never seen one, I will assume that their quality is good, but they are definetely not lightweight. Materials tend to be oldfashioned (steel instead of aluminum, etc) but tried and true.

Good luck
Duppie

Realize I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but as an owner of an Azor Opa, a Batavus Favoriet, and a Pashley Sovereign, I thought I'd weigh in in favor of the Azor as an everyday bike. It's a heavy beast, which really smoothes out the ride, and it just feels sturdier than the Batavus. (I got the Batavus for sentimental reasons, having ridden one when I was in school in Amsterdam way back when, but the Azor is my go-to bike for regular use...) As for the Pashley, it's just too darn pretty to take out, especially in the winter when the streets are a salt-strewn mess.

I'd like to pick up a Gazelle Toer Populaire when I'm in Holland in May, but getting it back across the pond would be a huge logistical hassle.

Really, though, you can't go wrong with any Dutch bike (I'm prejudiced, I know), as long as you get it black. Any other color is just wrong.

I'd like to pick up a Gazelle Toer Populaire when I'm in Holland in May, but getting it back across the pond would be a huge logistical hassle.


Texasfietser,
I did that last year for my wife's bike. I just took it on the airplane as checked luggage. It was a KLM flight and it cost 150EUR. Pretty much hasslefree
I bought it at this (http://www.itek.be/) store. They specialize in last years models. I picked up a Gazelle Medeo Trekking there for 40% below MSRP.

Hope this helps,
Duppie

Duppie,

Dank je wel.

Texasfietser

I'm immensely fond of my Gazelle Impala, which I lucked upon when a departing grad student was inquiring at the bike shop about how to find a buyer for his when I dropped in. I have nothing to compare it to but it fits your descriptoin except the rear light isn't generator powered - but mine's a 2003 and I believe more recent models are generator powered both ends.
When I was investigating (and I'd seen one in town and looked before I stumbled into the bike shop) I'd found a post where the rider compared it to a "bike on tranquilizers." Welp, I have to concur to a point. It weighs a lot. Some folks call it the "Gazellephant." However, this has been a good thing when plowing through deep ponds in the road or slush or snow (I put studded tyres on it this winter and the winter has accommodated me by making it worth it for the first time in yhears!) This also means when the temps are in single digits, and road conditions dubious, I *still* generate enough heat moving it to be warm :D
It's also just so daggone classy :D

I did manage to find a apprx 5 year old blue Batavus Navajo on a trip to the bay area. A family from Sweeden brought it over seas. I put it in a bike box and brought it back to Portland.

It turned out to be around 1 size too large (I am OK on it, but it is pretty snug on the 'package' as I stand over it), and is not an internal hub. The extra gears are OK to have, but a Nexus would really make this bike awesome.

I was surprised to find that the wheels were single wall on this bike. I guess these more modern interpretations of the Dutch bike are not as bullet proof. Still...it does have a nice riding position, nice ergonomic grips, some well fitted fenders, a cable lock and rear wheel lock (handy), adjustable handlebars, and... isnt a total pig. The front and rear wheels are quick release.

The ride is nice and the frame appears to be steel. The rear rack is sturdy enough with a set of cables like the Trek L200's I have seen. They were stretched completely out so I picked up some Sun replacements at Clever Cycles in PDX.The tire powered generator light (front and rear) is not that great...loud and has lots of drag. If this bike was my size, I would set up a Nexus 7 pr 8 speed and front hub powered light on it. Totally worth it. For now I just use a Planet Bike light. I replaced the rear wheel with a Sun double wall rim. Sometime I will do the front wheel as well, or maybe sell it for a 17' frame similar dutch bike.

Hmmm? I wonder if I could locate the frame in my size? Just swap the parts and slap on the Nexus and generator hub for the current lights. :)

Realize I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but as an owner of an Azor Opa, a Batavus Favoriet, and a Pashley Sovereign, I thought I'd weigh in in favor of the Azor as an everyday bike. It's a heavy beast, which really smoothes out the ride, and it just feels sturdier than the Batavus. (I got the Batavus for sentimental reasons, having ridden one when I was in school in Amsterdam way back when, but the Azor is my go-to bike for regular use...) As for the Pashley, it's just too darn pretty to take out, especially in the winter when the streets are a salt-strewn mess.

I'd like to pick up a Gazelle Toer Populaire when I'm in Holland in May, but getting it back across the pond would be a huge logistical hassle.

Really, though, you can't go wrong with any Dutch bike (I'm prejudiced, I know), as long as you get it black. Any other color is just wrong.

Is that model kind of like an Azor Secret Service? The more sporty, slightly lighter, thinner tire azors? I looked at the Standard classic model Azor Opa and the Secret Service. The SS seems to slightly less robust parts in exchange for a little bit more "go". Both had the hub powered lights, middle kick stand and most of the other parts exclusive to these Dutch bikes.

For those that haven't seen this site:

http://www.balloonbikes.com/en/die_balloonbikes/kategorie/

A couple of the bikes that have already been mentioned are there but most have not been. The common thread to all of these is fat tires.

As I understand it (not having seen one), the Azor Secret Service is essentially an aluminum-framed version of the standard Dutch city bike, such as the Opa, Batavus Favoriet, or Gazelle Toer Populair. I suppose its target audience is people who want the most of the traditional looks and features of a Dutch city bike but don't want the weight.

Back when I was bike shopping seven years ago, I had decided upon the Dutch Gazelle as the best bike. Just when I was about to order one, I came across a German Kettler Silverstar that was already in this country.

Paul

OK, so the Pashley isn't exactly dutch, but its my favorite. Roadster Sovereign.

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/guvnor.html

this is a stylish bike. Wish i had the bread for something like this.

Yeah, I love the styling of that bicycle. Really beautiful. If I ever get a single speed, the Guv'nor would be my choice.

My first choice would be the Quitmann Big Apple Rohloff. http://www.quitmann-ms.de/eng/big_apple.html

Not sure if it's Dutch or German, but I love this bike. I think it's about 2000.00US though...maybe more.

Oh, man, fully decked out, $4000, nowadays. Plus, of course, you'd want to go over there to pick it up personally, right?

It's a beautiful bike, though.

Like2Bike

I know this thread is old, but it keeps coming up in searches, so I wanted to add that I just received an Azor Secret Service and have posted a review at our blog (http://austinbikeblog.org/?p=449), just in case anyone is interested. It's a great bike overall, except for a couple of low-quality accessories.

(This forum really does keep coming up in searches!)

Just wanted to share:
My experience of getting a Dutch bicycle in the US has just concluded after nearly 2 months... And it was worth it. :-)

Luckily, my boyfriend is Dutch, so on a visit to Den Haag this past weekend (I currently reside in Richmond, VA and Los Angeles, CA), we went to a local bike shop, and I picked out a great second-hand, only a couple years old, bicycle...

It was a Gazelle Impala and I got it for 325 Euros (about $450 US). They packed it for me for free and since my father works for an airline, was able to check the bicycle in at no additional cost.

Conclusion: Buying a Dutch bike in Holland is the best option economically and in some ways also in terms of energy/time efficiency. (Not including the plane fare because my flight was free.)

If I had bought the Batavus Old Dutch model that I had initially intended, I would have saved at least $200 off the price at a US store. (That still means at least $100 off if the airline charges you for it.) Also, if the bike is over 150 Euros, then theoretically you can get the tax back at the VAT counter if you obtain the right receipts and if you are a US citizen (I was running late for my flight and I didn't have a chance to fill out the paperwork for this option).

Plus:

-you get to test-ride it there, which is nice.
-more options! (New and Used)
-Dutch people are awesome and they definitely know bikes.

So yes, just wanted to add my 2 cents and if anyone has any feedback about any of this, or the Gazelle Impala I just bought, that would be great!


(Note: I initially tried to special order a Batavus bike from a shop in Washington DC but it's expensive and you don't know what you're going to end up with. Oh and don't ever go to City Bikes! they took a deposit for a bike they could not get and didn't even bother to tell me they didn't place the order until I called them after the date they said it would be in by!)

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/guvnor.html

this is a stylish bike. Wish i had the bread for something like this.

That is a really cool bike. Of course, with a little patience and luck on the eBay, you could find a very nice steel roadie frame and build up that bike for much less than 800 GBP.

Have you looked at breezers?

http://www.breezerbikes.com/bike_details.cfm?bikeType=town&frame=d&bike=uptown&new=true

EDIT: OOPS, just saw he already posted about that here. Sorry.

In case anyone is interested, my co-author at AustinBikeBlog owns an Azor Secret Service and did a review here: http://austinbikeblog.org/?p=449

Here also wrote about how he came to decide on the Secret Service here: http://austinbikeblog.org/?p=332

I'll third the Gazelle Impalla as a really nice bike. I found a used one for my wife for $200 a few months ago, and she's totally loving it. I've only ridden it a few times while making adjustments for her (and trying to get a 2nd key made for the wheel lock--no luck, though), but I'd say that it feels incredibly solid. This one is used, great.

Other than a Brooks B67s I just slapped on there, it looks like this:
http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r378/Shinyville/gazelle.jpg
As for Breezer bikes, we both had Breezer Freedoms, and she hated hers. If you're looking for truly upright to help your back, the Breezer is still quite forward-leaning if you have back problems or wrist problems, etc. It's no road bike, but it's no Dutch bike geometry-wise, either, without doing a lot of modifications. I still have my Breezer, but it's been relegated to a snow/ice/bad weather bike while I spend most of my time on an 8-speed IGH Electra Townie or an old Miyata Touring Bike.

If you're really looking for the upright geometry without the Dutch bike prices, I would recommend checking out the Townies, too. They're quite upright, much lighter than a Dutch bike, and you can get the "commuter" model that has hub generator lights and a decent rear rack. I'm honestly not such a fan of the retro-futuristic "look" of the Townies, but I went with it because it seems very solidly built and had the 8 speed IGH I was looking for in a bike with upright positioning. If I could've gotten another Dutch bike for me for the price of the Townie, though, I'm sure I would have gone that route instead.

PS: It sounds like Electra is realizing how much the Townie series has in common with Dutch bikes in terms of function. There are some sneak peak pictures of the upcoming '09 models on this blog: http://blog.centurycycles.com/2008/08/electras-09-lineup-sneak-peak.html

Some of those new front racks remind me a lot of the utility/function of Dutch bikes and English roadsters, or the US-made bikes like the racks you see on A.N.T. bikes, etc. I still wish they went with classier color schemes, though.

I am glad to see this thread continuing. I want to keep up on what bike manufactures are doing both here in the states, and over seas to create a truly utilitarian and comfortable upright bike like the Dutch models. Dutch or not...I am still intrigued.

Dutch bikes can now be imported into the U.S. You can order the Gazelle Impala from Bikedock.com and the Gazelle Toer Populair can be ordered along with other Dutch bike brands from Bikes4free.nl.

I have to report an update: you may be able to order a bike from Europe but its prohibitively expensive to ship one. The fees are usually more than the bike is worth. Thus, its still more economical to fly to Europe and take the bike back with you by air. There is no way of getting around the fact that its just not worth the while for shipping companies to transport a bicycle from across the pond for a reasonable fee. We'll just have to wait for European brands like Gazelle, etc. to acquire a North American distribution network.

What's the critique on the Electra Amsterdam Original 3i?
I'm desperately searching for a Dutch style bicycle. I currently live in Toronto and I'm moving to Scotland soon for university and need a bicycle for means of transportation, groceries, ect. So clearly being North American, I know nothing about bicycles. All I know is that it needs to be decently light weight (35 pound range), withstand rain, sufficient carrying space, and of course stylish:).

Is it really worth traveling to the Netherlands and purchasing one there? I cannot drop 1500 dollars Canadian on a bicycle..

"That is a really cool bike. (The Pashley Guv'nor) Of course, with a little patience and luck on the eBay, you could find a very nice steel roadie frame and build up that bike for much less than 800 GBP."

Will steel roadie frames take the wide tires?

Avalon, check out Curbside Cycle in Toronto. They carry Batavus 3 speed, for about $800 Canadian. It's about 5-7lbs heavier than 35lbs though, but it's a basic ride and go bike.

They also carry other euro brands like English Pashleys and Italian Abicis(which is a rare brand in NA as well).

I looked into Electra Amsterdams, too, but they felt flimsy to me. They are certainly relatively light though(and the Original doesn;t have a rack) but I never had good experience with Electra accessories before(again, they felt cheap and plasticy).

For a hundred or so dollars more for a comparable model(Classic 3), I decided to get the real thing which is made in Holland vs made in China for Electra.

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/guvnor.html

this is a stylish bike. Wish i had the bread for something like this.

+1 I want one!

I will most definitely be heading down there as soon as I can to check out the Batavus Old Dutch. I think I've fallen in love with that bicycle! Thank you so much!

Oh if you're heading to Scotland soon, I suggest waiting until then. You will have WAY more choices being in Europe and it will probably be cheaper.

Check out the European sites of these euro-bike makers and see if they have any dealers close to your resident in Scotland. They most certainly will and most will have the classic euro city bike as a floor model instead of a special order(although Curbside Cycle has them as floor models as well!).

Gazelle, Batavus, Pashley, Raleigh to name a few all have pretty good distribution networks in the UK and are good brands to check out when you get there.

a dutch style stadfiets would be pretty useless in scotland.

Oh, man, fully decked out, $4000, nowadays. Plus, of course, you'd want to go over there to pick it up personally, right?

It's a beautiful bike, though.

Like2Bike

Have changed my mind. Because I'm commuting rural instead of urban nowadays 700 wheels and a lighter frame are more in line with my needs. Thus: http://www.quitmann-ms.de/eng/speed.html There's a version w/a Rohloff hub available. It's cheaper than the Big Apple, but not by much. My wife and I are in the planning stages of a Euro cycling tour next year. We may START a/t Quitmann facility...:p

Well I'm in St Andrews, a fairly small town. I need a form of transportation so this seems to be the most suitable option.

What's the critique on the Electra Amsterdam Original 3i?


I have an Electra Amsterdam 3 Classic (2007) and a Koga Miyata Expression LP (2006). One is made is Holland with mostly German and Japanese components, while the other is made in Taiwan with some Japanese and who knows what else.

I had to replace the wheelset on the Amsterdam because I kept popping spokes every few weeks on my commute (now it has beefy Velocity Dyads). At the same time, I upgraded the IGH to a used Nexus 7sp from the original 3sp, and i added a dynamo front hub. The bike came with a coaster brake, which I replaced with cantilever brakes, since the coaster brake scared me a few times. All in all, it is now a nice-looking, nice-functioning bike, now that I sunk another $900 into the sub-$600 Amsterdam. I got what I paid for, though some suggested that the LBS that put it together did a lame job checking out the wheelset (I am too inexperienced to comment about that).

By comparison, the Koga is a far better bike: simpler, more reliable, and more expensive. Is it worth it? All I can say is that reliability is king for me, because lost time due to wimpy, crappy componentry certainly adds up. Will I spend less on my next bike? I hope so, but that is a long way off, since the bike seems to be stout.

-david

Have changed my mind. Because I'm commuting rural instead of urban nowadays 700 wheels and a lighter frame are more in line with my needs. Thus: http://www.quitmann-ms.de/eng/speed.html There's a version w/a Rohloff hub available. It's cheaper than the Big Apple, but not by much. My wife and I are in the planning stages of a Euro cycling tour next year. We may START a/t Quitmann facility...:p

Nice bike(s). Go for the Rohloff, if IGHs are your thing (I like mine a lot).

Velorbis - http://www.velorbis.com/

I ended up settling for a Pashley Princess Classic. I purchased it today and receive it Friday. I don't think I could be more excited haha. Yeah I reviewed the Electra bikes again and they cannot even compare to various brands. I suppose you get what you pay for.

You might try a folding bike because they often come equipped with fenders, racks, fat tires, internal hubs, and low "step-over" frames, and are much more easily available here in America.

Did you buy it from curbside, Avalon?

I did indeed! They were quite helpful.

Nice bike(s). Go for the Rohloff, if IGHs are your thing (I like mine a lot).

Oh yeah, definately going for the Rohloff. Haven't used IGH very much(I had a Raleigh Sport when I was a kid...got stolen :notamused:)and don't have one in my stable, but my wife and I agreed the Quitmann Speed w/t Rohloff hub combo would be ideal for our commuting/touring needs for the balance of our lifetimes. Unless we can find something domestic w/a Rohloff, of course. No conversions, though. We want something specifically designed FOR a Rohloff not merely fitted w/one.

Would want her chainring a little smaller than mine for hill climbing under load. Say 36t for her and a 42t for me. But would want both to be fully enclosed. Or maybe a larger cog? Ooops, thread drift...sorry OP :p

Oh yeah, definately going for the Rohloff. ...We want something specifically designed FOR a Rohloff not merely fitted w/one.

I shared your viewpoint about looking for a complete bike already equipped with the Rohloff, and quite literally went to this page of theirs (http://www.rohloff.de/en/info/bikesearch/index.html), found a few complete bikes in my category of interest, then started searching my location (USA) until I found a dealer with a model in stock.

OTOH, a LBS does mods like attach a Rohloff to a freehub with a derailleur, which in the case he showed me is like having a 9-range Rohloff -- customized, to be sure -- but that client, the LBS owner explained, does long touring trips, and it was a recumbent, to boot. It gave me gearing-range envy.

Cheers,

-david

I can't believe how expensive these things are. We have here in Chicago a very snoody Dutch bike store where they charge 1800 dollars for Dutch bike. I know my parents had these things in the early 80s, and I'm sure they didn't pay more than 200 dollars.

A Dutch style bicycle can easily be two grand with suitable upgrades. The days when a bike could be had for under a grand are gone. I sank quite a bit of money into making the Pashley Guvnor over into a roadster. It looks like the opafiets one sees in Dutch bike catalogs. Stately and traditional.