Fifty Plus (50+) - Standard to achieve mediocre status

When I started riding I decided I needed goals, so I picked two. The first was to get in shape and I have made progress, but still have 20 pounds to lose. I am not disappointed with where I am on that goal. The second goal has been hard to pin down. I want to achieve a "status" as a rider beyond beginner. During the past year I have seen good riders. They fly up hills that I crank up in granny. I am too old to ever become "good". I have finally decided I will work hard to improve to the point of being a mediocre rider. The problem with this decision is establishing a standard by which a mediocre rider can attain that lofty perch. My guess is that the total time to ride a century would work. If that sounds good, then what total time should be used? Also, if there is a better measurement for this goal, please make your case.

Goals need to be solid numbers. I picked a 17-mile route and made a goal to do it under an hour. Meeting that goal made for a great day. I have now cut off a full 20 mintues on that route from when I started.

Here's what I know: You can always get better. And someone is always better than you.

Interesting topic you bring up. What makes a good rider? Is it someone who can ride a century at a pace in the mid 20's? There are lots of good riders on this forum who don't even ride centuries. IMHO you need to be a good rider to ride a century in 8 hours or less. It's not about the speed, it's about the distance. Just see how well you do on your first one, then get ready for the next one.

When I started riding I decided I needed goals, so I picked two. The first was to get in shape and I have made progress, but still have 20 pounds to lose. I am not disappointed with where I am on that goal. The second goal has been hard to pin down. I want to achieve a "status" as a rider beyond beginner. During the past year I have seen good riders. They fly up hills that I crank up in granny. I am too old to ever become "good". I have finally decided I will work hard to improve to the point of being a mediocre rider. The problem with this decision is establishing a standard by which a mediocre rider can attain that lofty perch. My guess is that the total time to ride a century would work. If that sounds good, then what total time should be used? Also, if there is a better measurement for this goal, please make your case.

My suggestion: don't compare yourself to others. There are too many variables, age, physical condition, work schedules etc. Set goals for yourself. Kerlenbach has a great idea. Start with a goal that's within your ability. Once accompished , step it up a notch and so on and so forth. If you've haven't done an imperial century ( 100 miles) try it with a generous time limit and see how you do. Then ramp it up next time. I try to be a "good rider" vs. myself. There are too many riders out there that are much better. No sense depressing yourself. And besides, riding is supposed to be fun. Enjoy it and if you think you're good, then you are.

This decision was made for me by deciding on another goal. I decided to go as fast as I can across America by bike SAG supported. The tour required that we document an average speed of 16.5 MPH on reasonably flat ground and wind neutral (means round trip).
I have pursued this standard for three years now. I met it three years ago but only with extraordinary effort. I did it on a CycleOps FL2 trainer and was sick as a dog after doing 100 miles.
These days I can do better than 16.5 MPH and do 16.5 routinely.
My next tour will be April 2008. I am aiming to be able to do 18 MPH for 100 miles. I am busy training for that now.
BTW, my best time for shorter distances is >22 MPH. We are here talking 100 miles.

Actually, I have ridden 3 centuries this year. My average time for the three rides is 6 hours, 45 minutes. My younger brother normally rides a century in less than 5 hours. I am not sure if there is an accepted standard time for a "good" rider, average rider, or even a mediocre rider as I strive to become. I have asked my brother if he is thinking of entering some local races. He says every time he considers such an adventure he rides with someone that does race some. He says he is then taught how average he is and all thoughts of racing are dashed. As it has already been suggested, I think probably the best thing is to time yourself and try to improve on that at whatever distance.

Just enjoy your bicycling. Why make everything so complicated? Life is too short for all these complexities, IMHO! Why does everything have to be longer or harder or faster?

I always felt a good cyclist is one who is at home on their bike.
One who enjoys riding whatever the conditions or situation

Those who climb faster are good climbers.
Those who ride farther are good marathoners.
Those who ride fast are good racers.
But are they all good cyclists?

Just enjoy your bicycling. Why make everything so complicated? Life is too short for all these complexities, IMHO! Why does everything have to be longer or harder or faster?

+1, and I don't usually see things the same way Denver does.

I set try to set life goals and let the cycling help satisfy those that relate to fitness, outdoor activities, stress relieve, showing my kids individual sports, personal satisfaction.

+2 ...I was a serious runner before I took up cycling. I started my racing career at the age of 48...always finished in the top 10%, but always knew I couldn't win the race. My motivation was to do better than the last time I'd raced that distance, and to meet my target pace (happily I always exceeded it).

The most important performance goals to me are achieved relative to my previous performance.

I don't think I'd ever have a goal to ride a century. It sounds too painful to be a goal in itself.

However, if something really fun came up that just happened to be 100 miles long, then I'd want to do it. But I don't know how I'd have any extra energy to enjoy it if I was riding 100 miles. Seriously, after mile marker 80, it sounds like one big saddle sore.

Just enjoy your bicycling. Why make everything so complicated? Life is too short for all these complexities, IMHO! Why does everything have to be longer or harder or faster?

CITIUS, ALTIUS, FORTIUS (Faster, Higher, Stronger) -- The Olympic motto...:rolleyes:

I don't think I'd ever have a goal to ride a century. It sounds too painful to be a goal in itself. However, if something really fun came up that just happened to be 100 miles long, then I'd want to do it. But I don't know how I'd have any extra energy to enjoy it if I was riding 100 miles. Seriously, after mile marker 80, it sounds like one big saddle sore.

Have you thought about your bike fit lately?
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Go to Amazon. Check out the blurbs on Bill Strickland's book, Ten Points. You'll probably want to read it. You probably "ought" to read it.

Have you thought about your bike fit lately?
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Very funny. But really, I'm just basing the post 80-mile pain on what I read here in the 50+ forum! I don't know, firsthand!

My goals are somewhat low nowadays. All I want to do is keep riding with a smile. I no longer have goals that I train for- and hence have to push myself in training to get fit enough to reach the goal. If it ever gets to the stage that I am not enjoying what I am doing- I will stop.

Just remind me of that when I make the hill that all the turks are walking- even though my legs and lungs are bursting- and Pride is not letting me walk the bike with the others.

My viewpoint is that many or most of us come from some sort of work environment or other environment where we are pushed to our hardest to meet eomeone (or perhaps our own) goals. Incessantly. In my case, in teaching, there were tremendous daily pressures for achievement on the part of those I taught, for appropriate "classroom environment" for kiddos with serious and sometimes critical challenges in their own lives, in addition to the pressures we put on them at school, etc. In my personal world, I have been and am continuing in battles with huge systems of bureaucracy full of entropy and, at times, corruption, in a sometimes vain attempt to get services for individuals with disabilities. And etc., etc., etc.

It seems to me that in at least one place in our lives we should be able to have refuge from this intensity and pressure, and that is in our recreation. Yet, I continuously see in these forums where folks are desirous of adding more and more and more pressure on themselves, even in their recreational pursuits.

Why? I just don't understand it. We should all have a place of sanctity and peace, IMHO - at least I need that. I think reasonable goals of fitness and maintaining appropriate body weight are appropriate. Beyond that it just seems as if one is driven by something else that is beyond me.

This thread is not where I was thinking when I wrote the subject, but it is interesting. Goals are important to me because I tend to not push myself without them, and yes I need to push myself to get physically fit. I played college basketball - 40 years ago - and I consider that competitive. It was competitive just to keep your scholarship, much less playing the other teams. For me, riding the bicycle is not competitive. If I were racing it would be, but I am not racing. Goals help me achieve the fitness I need to feel better, and I do feel physically better than I have in years. If I were riding just for enjoyment I would not make but a few miles per ride and I would not be in the condition I am today. Goals work for me, for some they do not.

This thread is not where I was thinking when I wrote the subject, but it is interesting. Goals are important to me because I tend to not push myself without them, and yes I need to push myself to get physically fit. I played college basketball - 40 years ago - and I consider that competitive. It was competitive just to keep your scholarship, much less playing the other teams. For me, riding the bicycle is not competitive. If I were racing it would be, but I am not racing. Goals help me achieve the fitness I need to feel better, and I do feel physically better than I have in years. If I were riding just for enjoyment I would not make but a few miles per ride and I would not be in the condition I am today. Goals work for me, for some they do not.

OK, that makes sense to me. You know yourself best. I likely over reacted a bit to your post, because I had just read another post with detailed daily achievement plans that just blew me away, and I sort of put the two in the same package in my head.

I would support the concept of measuring one's self against one's self, and not others, and I do enjoy seeing changes and improvement in myself.

Then, there comes into the question just what is "enjoyment?"

Oh, this is all too much.

Have a great day. Sorry to have detoured your thread a bit.

Actually, I have ridden 3 centuries this year. My average time for the three rides is 6 hours, 45 minutes. My younger brother normally rides a century in less than 5 hours. I am not sure if there is an accepted standard time for a "good" rider, average rider, or even a mediocre rider as I strive to become.

Many cycling clubs have classifications to assist riders in choosing rides appropriate for their riding level. They usually state the qualifications for these classifications. Here are the guidelines from my club. Several clubs in the area have the same or very similar guidelines. Note..the time includes the time allowed for rest stops.

Classification Speed Distance Time
D...............9 to 12 MPH..........20 miles.......3 hours
C..............12 to 15 MPH.........40 miles........4 hours
B..............15 to 18 MPH..........65 miles.......5 hours
A..............18 to 21 MPH........100 miles.......7 hours
AA............. 22+ MPH............ 100 miles.......5.5 hours

Cycling goals are like Enlightenment. When you achieve them, the achieving no longer matters. Or something like that.

I do have concrete goals: ride my age (55), then a metric century, then an imperial century. Time therein is not an issue. I've been riding seriously for two years. I think It'll take me one more year to do the imperial.

Just enjoy your bicycling. Why make everything so complicated? Life is too short for all these complexities, IMHO! Why does everything have to be longer or harder or faster?

Couldn't agree with you more. If I only ride downtown on errands on my Surly Cross Check or do my 45 mile road ride on my Cannondale, I have fun and enjoy it. That's what cycling is all about for me. The more I ride the longer I can go and the faster I can go, but I don't make that a focus of my riding.

............................................................................ Life is too short for all these complexities, IMHO! Why does everything have to be longer or harder or faster?

To each his/her own.
Why do sports at all? Why climb a mountain? Why do anything what causes temporary discomfort?
Why try to excel at anything? Why strive for excellence in anything?

I agree that many, many more people agree with your point of view. That does not make you right for those of us who try to push the limits and have a ball doing it.
I have a few people in my immediate family who liked your point of view and lived by it, to their detriment. There is too much room for abuse unless you find a good obsession which makes these abuses unattractive.

Both the don't make it to complicated to have fun and the you need goals viewpoints are valid we just need to have a balance between them that works for us.

In late '05 my goal was to not be sick and fat anymore, I'm still pretty fat but I'm not sick. I walked away from the really fat sick part. And then part way into walking it off I realized the 50 year old knees weren't to happy so I dusted off the old mountain bike in May of '06 and started just commuting to work and riding a wee bit, and then the crazy idea that I could ride a century came to mind. I managed a 7.5 hour century on the mtb in Sept '06. This year I've fallen a lot, and not ridden as well, but I wanted to ride the century faster this time. SO I bought a nice entry level Jamis and this year I rode the century in 6.5 hours and my wife rode the 25 mile ride her first really long ride ever! I don't know what my goal is for next year yet, partly its going to be to really work on my weight again, I've been gaining all summer and really really don't like where that is headed. But my riding goal is still pretty nebulous, RAGBRAI keeps calling to me I've never done a really long ride and that sounds like a pretty cool goal.

I am not a person who doesn't "push" myself. I kind of track how fast my speed is and how far I've gone. I've kept track of my weekly miles until recently. I'm always trying to get stronger...

But it's not a quantitative thing to me... it's more like aquiring skill sets that will allow me to do something. Like Beverly's chart, I want to experience different rides and different people, and know it will take work and training to do that. I want to tour on my bike and need to build up to it. I want to do Ragbrai, I want to ride with people whom I would now be unable to.

I want to do 70 hilly miles with Terrierman! That's my next goal! So the goals are fun-oriented, not record-keeping.

I absolutely* don't* set out to hit a certain number. It's always some locationor activity, which progressively gets further away. I'm working at riding around Lake Millacs, which is over 70 miles if you take the long way. The mini goals are the different towns on the route, and that's all. If I wake up and don't feel like going to Garrison, I'll go somewhere else, even if the distance is shorter.

Usually, when I'm gaining a skill set for an activity, I'm motivated enough where progress just happens naturally. If timing is critical or short, then* I'll block out intermediate goals.

But mostly, if I get on my bike 5 times a week, I'll start playing games with myself and see how X (X=far, fast, long, slow, whatever) I can go. That just seems to naturally build my skills. I do force myself to do new things, based on what I read here. Like, I need to start playing some "Hill Games".

I do the same with driving a car. If I'm on a long trip, I start playing games with cough drops and mile markers.

As I've said many times, I'm a geek.

Just enjoy your bicycling. Why make everything so complicated? Life is too short for all these complexities, IMHO! Why does everything have to be longer or harder or faster?

You nailed it, Denver!

I think It'll take me one more year to do the imperial.

That's not bad. A little longer than 8 hours, but not too bad.

Many of us have cycling goals and some for different reasons. Some like the thrill of saying I did this many miles in that amount of time just for the sake of the bragging rights. Some like to continually up the goals seeking a higher faster speeds and more miles. These are unsustainable goals at our age (or any age for that matter), IMHO they will turn cycling into a job, or worse - a prison. The trick is sustainable motivation. If I was purely motivate buy the "fun" of cycling, I would ride only on a limited number of days when it's not to hot, not to cold and not too many hills. I ride a lot because it is fun, but I also force myself out on long hard training rides because I know that in the long run it will make everything else I enjoy doing that much more enjoyable. The harder I push myself at riding for exercise the more enjoyable riding for pleasure becomes (about 1/3 of my rides are for the shear fun of it), the better I can ski, hiking is easier and working around the house is easier. When I am fit and strong from riding, I am able to enjoy a life full of a lot of other things more.

Denver did not understand why some of us talk about farther-faster goals, when I talk about such things this is why. There is a little ego in there, but that only gets me so far. The real driver is being fit for the rest of my life's activities.

So, if were to translate that into rides, you could also go on rides that were 2/3 pushing, 1/3 enjoyment? That's an interesting thought.

OK, people, on any individual ride, how much is for fun, how much of it is to push onself?

I'd say 1/4 of each ride is spent being pushed for me.

1/3 pushing it
1/3 recovery
1/3 for the fun of it.
That seems like a good mix for me.
Although I have no idea what I would call a riding on a trainer, maybe a purgatory ride...

I ride because I can !

If I push for a mileage mark, it's because I feel like it.

Cycling for me is more of an escape than a means to better health, the
better health is a side benefit.

So I think I'm...
2/3+ for the fun of it
1/3 ish work, (last leg of a long ride).

Seems to me, as an old, slow rider, that being a "good" rider involves a lot more than how far or how fast you can ride. On large group rides and cross-state tours, you'll see a lot of strong riders who can ride fast, or who take pride in riding "a century every day for a week" who are not good riders. Some of them present a danger to themselves and other riders and give cycling a bad name.
Being a "good" rider means, among other things:
Having and using good technical riding skills,
Taking good care of yourself and your equipment,
Being a safe, defensive rider who respects the rights of other riders and vehicles,
Ride in such a way that engenders respect for cycling among non-cyclists

If you want to become a "good" rider, take a LAB Road 1 course
If you want to become a "really good" rider, take the course to become a league certified instructor...and become one.

Denver did not understand why some of us talk about farther-faster goals, when I talk about such things this is why. There is a little ego in there, but that only gets me so far. The real driver is being fit for the rest of my life's activities.

Well, whatever I do seems to work pretty well for me. I feel fit for the rest of my life activities. Of course I try to do things that challenge me. Its is just natural, not something I feel a need to track. Yes, there is a balance. I think I have found it for me.

DF - wasn't pounded on you. I know you have a balance that works for you - many of us who have been at it a long time do.:)
What I see time and time again are folks who start out setting goals and then when they hit that point where gains come hard without major commitment they get frustrated and quit or they get bored because it is no longer fun. Clearly those of us with a life time of riding have not made it a job.

Didn't mean to offend - BTW:
:bday:

Once again, being the OP, I am somewhat surprised by the subject that came out of this thread. I was looking for standards, I got a discussion on having goals. I actually find this odd. Most of the people that disdain goals actually have described their goals on this thread. Is there something that worries people about admitting their goals. Are they afraid of failing? Who knows? Ceratinly I do not know. I do know that I cannot imagine living without goals. I cannot imagine not being able to admit my goals, for whatever reason. I say that you would not go through the pain of pedaling up a hill if you did not have a goal.

DF - wasn't pounded on you. I know you have a balance that works for you - many of us who have been at it a long time do.:)
What I see time and time again are folks who start out setting goals and then when they hit that point where gains come hard without major commitment they get frustrated and quit or they get bored because it is no longer fun. Clearly those of us with a life time of riding have not made it a job.

Didn't mean to offend - BTW:
:bday:

No offense taken.

Yes, I guess we all have goals, and we are all so very different.

One of my goals is to have an activity with a minimum of goals.

That doesn't mean that I don't like challenging that hill, or seeing myself getting better or faster. It just means that I am glad when that happens, but I don't want to make that my emphasis of bicycling - the one place where I get away from goals! But others' mileage obviously varies!.

Seems to me, as an old, slow rider, that being a "good" rider involves a lot more than how far or how fast you can ride. On large group rides and cross-state tours, you'll see a lot of strong riders who can ride fast, or who take pride in riding "a century every day for a week" who are not good riders. Some of them present a danger to themselves and other riders and give cycling a bad name.
Being a "good" rider means, among other things:
Having and using good technical riding skills,
Taking good care of yourself and your equipment,
Being a safe, defensive rider who respects the rights of other riders and vehicles,
Ride in such a way that engenders respect for cycling among non-cyclists

If you want to become a "good" rider, take a LAB Road 1 course
If you want to become a "really good" rider, take the course to become a league certified instructor...and become one.
+1

I've known fast cyclists who were not good cyclists, and good cyclists who were not fast cyclists.

I think goals are important. We are either getting better or worse. It's hard to stay in one spot.
I achieved my summer goals (Seattle-to-Portland, hit 144 fpounds or a few seconds) and now need new ones. I'm trying to come up with something I can do, something not out of reach.

Good cyclists:

Hold their line, don't wobble and worry riders near them
Hold their speed in a group, don't brake or stand or stop peddling suddenly
Look comfortable on their bikes because they are
Don't panic when bad stuff happens
Know how to ride their ride and enjoy it
Know how to not screw up someone else's ride


I'll bet when Lance was at a low point with cancr and could hardly ride, but still didi we'd all have reccognized him as a "good cyclist" even though he was short on strength.

That said... in a nutshell, riders slower than me suck, riders faster than me are compulsive over trainers with no life. Riders just like me know teh golden path.

on any individual ride, how much is for fun, how much of it is to push onself?

I'd say 1/4 of each ride is spent being pushed for me.

I need a long warm up, sometimes as much as 20 miles, but usually 10 or 12.

Then I'm in a good place for the next 20 miles or so -- warmed up but not tired -- and I go as hard as I can...which is usually about 18 MPH at 80% HR if it's flat and not too windy.

Then I back off and just spin through the rest of the ride, be it a 60 miler or a 100 miler.

My viewpoint is that many or most of us come from some sort of work environment or other environment where we are pushed to our hardest to meet eomeone (or perhaps our own) goals. Incessantly. In my case, in teaching, there were tremendous daily pressures for achievement on the part of those I taught, for appropriate "classroom environment" for kiddos with serious and sometimes critical challenges in their own lives, in addition to the pressures we put on them at school, etc. In my personal world, I have been and am continuing in battles with huge systems of bureaucracy full of entropy and, at times, corruption, in a sometimes vain attempt to get services for individuals with disabilities. And etc., etc., etc.

It seems to me that in at least one place in our lives we should be able to have refuge from this intensity and pressure, and that is in our recreation. Yet, I continuously see in these forums where folks are desirous of adding more and more and more pressure on themselves, even in their recreational pursuits.

Why? I just don't understand it. We should all have a place of sanctity and peace, IMHO - at least I need that. I think reasonable goals of fitness and maintaining appropriate body weight are appropriate. Beyond that it just seems as if one is driven by something else that is beyond me.


Different strokes for different folks, DF. I've always been kind of driven, and take a lot of joy and pleasure in planning my goals for each cycling season. Typically, those goals include rides that would be considered "extreme" and/or racing.

When I was first starting out in road cycling (a little over 10 years ago), my goals were smaller - to do a metric century, then to do a century. After I'd done a century, I started doing more, and tackling harder and harder ones. The feeling of accomplishment from training for, and then achieving, these goals keeps me motivated.

After a few years, I started doing week-long cycling tours. I've ridden the length of California, across Nevada, down the Oregon coast, and crossed the Continental Divide 10 times on 5 different tours in Colorado. Touring is a great way to meet other cyclists, learn a lot about riding techniques, and see some beautiful scenery.

If I didn't have these goals, I'd probably find myself slacking off and losing interest...by setting difficult goals, I force myself to put in the time and effort in training.

Lately, I've become more interested in competition, so now I've started entering road races, time trials, duathlons, and triathlons.

In fact, I'm now on a week-long vacation in St. George, Utah, to compete in the Huntsman World Senior Games (http://www.seniorgames.net/cycling.html). I'll be competing in a 5K hill climb, a 40K time trial, a 60K road race, a 34K criterium, and a triathlon. I'll also find time to do some hiking in Zion National Park.

Just riding along a MUP and "smelling the flowers" doesn't much appeal to me. For me, the "intensity and pressure" is part of the joy of the sport...it's a completely different intensity and pressure from the work-a-day world, and gives me much more in return.

SSP - That was quite a set of goals, and the fact that you achieved one after the other is tremendous. I agree with you that the pressure of reaching the bicycling goals are much different from meeting the goals at work.

Different strokes for different folks, DF.

Just riding along a MUP and "smelling the flowers" doesn't much appeal to me. For me, the "intensity and pressure" is part of the joy of the sport...it's a completely different intensity and pressure from the work-a-day world, and gives me much more in return.

OK, I accept your thoughts. Different strokes (of course)!

Good luck with your goals.

Have fun!

Once again, being the OP, I am somewhat surprised by the subject that came out of this thread. I was looking for standards, I got a discussion on having goals. I actually find this odd. Most of the people that disdain goals actually have described their goals on this thread. Is there something that worries people about admitting their goals. Are they afraid of failing? Who knows? Ceratinly I do not know. I do know that I cannot imagine living without goals. I cannot imagine not being able to admit my goals, for whatever reason. I say that you would not go through the pain of pedaling up a hill if you did not have a goal.

What type of standards are you looking for, BA? Most clubs have speed/distance/time standards for riders to use in order to select rides based on their abilities. I'm not sure what standards are used to determine the categories used in racing. Is this the type of info you were looking for?

Well I think you are confusing "good" rider with a rider in great condition and who can really ride fast. They are not necessarily the same thing. I have seen reasonably strong riders who could not change a flat. Amazing but true. I have seen people who were old and slow who were adept a nearly all things bicycle and could render aid and comfort to cyclists is distress. I think that knowing how to ride safely on the road, how to deal with mechanical problems, how to diagnose and treat physical problems are all parts of being a "good" cyclist. Riding fast really is not mandatory. Everyone gets old and slows down but that does not mean that they are no longer "good".

I'm not even entirely sure if "fast" should even make the mandatory list. Strong should... or I guess it should be the common sense not to bike past your limits.

Knowing how to change a flat should* probably make the mininimum requirements of a "good cyclist", but it's actually more important to carry a spare tube, which I just don't see on a lot of bikes.

I know you guys are talking about century riding speed demons, but I actually have more respect for the commuters and toureres, and my stereotype is that they are the safest, most steady, most conditioned "good riders".

Little Rock isn't that far from St Louis. Come on up sometime and I'll demonstrate what mediocre looks like.

Once again, being the OP, I am somewhat surprised by the subject that came out of this thread. I was looking for standards, I got a discussion on having goals. I actually find this odd. Most of the people that disdain goals actually have described their goals on this thread. Is there something that worries people about admitting their goals. Are they afraid of failing? Who knows? Ceratinly I do not know. I do know that I cannot imagine living without goals. I cannot imagine not being able to admit my goals, for whatever reason. I say that you would not go through the pain of pedaling up a hill if you did not have a goal.

You want a standard...here you go. http://www.westernwheelers.org/main/schedules/ride_info.htm

These guys do a great job of establishing standards so that riders can select rides to their ability. Note the familiar rating system of A through F. I assume we can all agree that C is mediocre or average, but maybe not. Also, note the inversion of the rating (F is the best). So for you to be C or an average rider with this group, you would need to climb Old La Honda, the benchmark climb, of 3.9 miles with an average grade of 7.3% in approximately 30 to 40 minutes to go on a hilly ride.

Actually, I have ridden 3 centuries this year. As it has already been suggested, I think probably the best thing is to time yourself and try to improve on that at whatever distance.

A mediocre cyclist never has ridden a century and never will. I'm afraid you are going to have to drop your standards if you wish to achieve mediocrity. :D

At our age, I think that smiles per miles is a great measure.

I agree that if you want to set a yardstick, you have the best idea. If you want to race, then there are classes with fellows our age. I'll bet even Lance can be dropped by some people now that he's not been practicing as much for a couple of years.

Little Rock isn't that far from St Louis. Come on up sometime and I'll demonstrate what mediocre looks like.

I can show him and he doesn't even have to leave Little Rock. ;)

This is interesting because we had a discussion on this on our Sat. ride. I asked if there was a point being 57 years old that you could no longer improve on speed and climbing, etc. Another guy made a good point that as you improve you tend to ride with better riders and are still dragging up the rear so you feel like you have not improved. He said think about the riders you rode with 2 years ago. Today you most likely would drop them in a heartbeat. So improvement is slow in cycling and that improvement may not show up so easily.