Road Cycling - Double or Triple ?

A triple seems way overkill when I consider that I used to ride a 12 spd and that seemed to be just fine. 27 spd? Hmmmm......

What are your preferences? Seems like a lot of wasted gears...

I see you are a fellow Californian. you live in the San Juanquin Valley. I invite you to hit the San Bernardino Mtns. Unless you are pro- material; it will be evident very quickly how helpful they can be. Of course crank/cog size is a major factor, but then even when you have a triple, too. Hit the mountains before you decide. my original road bike had a double. When I moved to a hilly area, it was soon retrofitted.

Originally posted by cyclezealot
I see you are a fellow Californian. you live in the San Juanquin Valley. I invite you to hit the San Bernardino Mtns. Unless you are pro- material; it will be evident very quickly how helpful they can be. Of course crank/cog size is a major factor, but then even when you have a triple, too. Hit the mountains before you decide. my original road bike had a double. When I moved to a hilly area, it was soon retrofitted.

Only one problem... Don't have a road bike to try the hills :D I have to decide which to get when I decide which bike I want. It would be nice to get it right the first time and not have to switch later on.

If you are going to be riding in hills get the triple. You will not regret it.

Double. If you log any serious miles on the road bike, you'll grow out of the triple REALLY quickly. I have a 12-25 cassette on my bike [double] and I find that that can handle ANYTHING. Sure, I grind down to 8 km/h on a 20% grade [who wouldn't?], but a triple probably wouldn't help much there except to allow me to keep pedalling at such a slow speed that I fell over.

Triples shift less accurately than doubles, the smallest chainring is a gunk magnet in wet weather and, frankly, it looks really Fredly... :-)

Just try to make sure you get a decent range on the cassette [12-25 will handle most situations].

I'm a heavy rider (200 plus) but I've gotten by with a double for years. I do plenty of hills in the 800 - 1500 foot range without too much problem, some with brutal grades. I've tried some climbing before with a triple and it's just too slow for me... I need to get the damn hill over with. If you get a chance, try a triple before investing in one.

A triple will enable you to climb steep hills without putting too much force through your knees. It is vital if you are carrying much in the way of luggage.
I think the stock double gears on most road bikes are more suited to elite athletes than normal riders. You can gear them down to more reasonable ranges if you want (eg 36/48). As long as the shifter works, the gearing is up to you.

Michael makes a very good point: If you plan to carry a load on your bike [packs and panniers] and you ride in particularly hilly or mountainous terrain, a triple may be a good idea.

On the other hand, the contention that climbing in a double in, say 39/25 [that's a ratio of 1.56] is somehow more stressful on your knees than climbing in 30/25 [typically a triple's lowest gear, a ratio of 1.2] is specious. The problem is that, to keep from losing balance, you'll almost have to spin in the triple's lowest gear to stay upright. At about 50 rpms, you'll only be going 5 km/h at the most.

Now, if you could use a triple with no degradation in performance, I'd say go with it. But, to accomodate the extra chain ring, the derailleur cage is longer. That makes for sluggish shifts -- very noticeable when you come from a double -- and half the cassette is still inaccessible to the outside chainrings. Seems like a compromise that might work for tourers, but is utterly superfluous for roadies.

One last thing... If you ride in groups, you'll find that almost everyone else is a double. This is important because one of the [many] ways to pace yourself in a paceline is to see what gear the guy in front has shifted into. Unless you have a gear conversion chart handy, that'll be impossible in a triple.

I am not an elite athlete. I am a serous cyclist who rides 450 km per week at peak. I have never had any use for a triple. Just ask yourself how often you use the granny on your MTB. I've used mine about three times in four years. Now think about how much easier it is to climb on a road bike due to the design.

I was faced with the same decision a few years back and went with an Ultegra triple. I have questioned the decision ever since.

Cons for me:
- With the 52-42-30, you are a tooth down on the big ring than a double.
- I get smirks and comments from both posers and real riders in groups.
- I find I use the small gear because it's there.
- I can climb all hills in similar ratios to low in a double.
- It cost $30.00 more.
- There are a lot of gears you never touch.
- On the middle ring you have an extra derailler position for the small cogs than for the large cogs which means extra work to get it to function right (are doubles like this?).
- It weighs more.

None of these things keep me from enjoying the bike or the ride. I think if I had gone with the double, I'd have a number of reasons why a triple would be nice.

Go with the double unless you plan to climb telephone poles.

Thanks for the input guys. It's been about 6 yrs since I had a road bike and a lot has changed in that time. I got by with 12 gears back then so 18 ought to be plenty :p

One of the things I really like is the combo brake lever/shifter. What a clean set up! Who came out with that one first? From 1st impressions, I like the ShimaNo with both paddles in the same spot as opposed to the Campi with the thumb paddle. Very little time spent with either, just a first impression.

Getting ready to go test ride!!!!! Yeah baby!!!!

Originally posted by Greg
I was faced with the same decision a few years back and went with an Ultegra triple. I have questioned the decision ever since.

Cons for me:
- I get smirks and comments from both posers and real riders in groups.
It always did make me wonder why people wasted so much of their energy focusing on other people's decisions.

I have a triple on my touring bike, and my road bike is a double. Even when fully loaded, I can count on one hand the times that I really needed the granny ring. Unloaded, I never use the inner ring, even on a 12% grade.

Originally posted by D*Alex
I have a triple on my touring bike, and my road bike is a double. Even when fully loaded, I can count on one hand the times that I really needed the granny ring. Unloaded, I never use the inner ring, even on a 12% grade.

Kind of the same here. I use mostly my 27 speed Bianchi touring bike for day to day use and loaded trips and my beloved Benotto 10 speeds (with bar-end shifters) for my week-end ride(s). THere are some fair hills around here (ok it is not SF but still) and occasionally I feel happy to use the inner ring but I could quite easily do without it esp. without load. There are many speeds that I never use on my touring bike. Not that long ago I was commuting on a 3 speed or fixed speed bike so 10 speeds appeared to me as great comfort. Switching from 10 to 27 is a less significant improvement.

Well, both of my road bikes have double chain rings, and I have gotten along okay. And I am a long way from being a road warrior, too, just an everyday rider. I just put an R/ah cassette (11x28) on my Schwinn, and it gives me all the choices I want. Actually you lose one gear with this setup, as you can't go from big front to big rear, but you shouldn't do that anyway. I can easily handle most hills around here without using the lowest gear, but it is there if I need it!

My bike has Shimano Ultegra with the STI shifters, and I love them. I have only used the Campi setup once, and I am sure that once you are used to them, they would work fine, too. Either way, they sure are a lot handier to use than the down tube shifters my other road bike has!!

Good luck!

OK, guys, you shamed me out of putting a triple on my Bianchi. I called the LBS to cancel the order. But I am going to replace the 42 inner with a 39. I do have a triple on my commuter, and it stays. That will also be my tourer, if I get to tour. sigh.
Regards,
Raymond

Gosh Rainman, didn't think anyone ever listened to what I said! Comes from years of marriage and being a father! Of course, maybe you were talking about some of the other fine posts, too!

You should check out one of those 11X28 cassettes, too! That coupled with your 39 chainring would almost give you a mountain bike! (All right, just kidding! No letters, please!:D)

Don't worry-there aren't enuf hills around the gulf to need a triple, anyway. You'll be glad that you stuck with a double, and will probably stick that 42 tooth ring back within a year.

D*Alex, there is one hilly and beautiful ride a couple of hours from here that the local racers make regular pilgrimages to in order to get some hill time. I have been summoning up the nerve to go try it out. Think I'll do it by myself first before I go with others. That way, if I have to walk at least no one will be there to see it! I am no racer. I still spend most of my time on the small ring. I'm still mainly working more on maintaining cadence in the mid-high 90s. I just noticed the other day that I have pretty much worn out one of my cogs, but I'm too embarassed to say publicly which one. :o
Regards,
Raymond

Have any of you guys ever climbed a road so steep that the sidewalk consisted of steps? Ive seen roads like that in Madeira. We have a few "bust-a-gut" climbs in the UK, much steeper than any Alpine road. Our local one, up to the south downs is a 130m in 1000m , reaching 30% grade in places.
Lets play "mine is steeper than yours"

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?gride=&gridn=&width=700&height=400&client=europe&db=&scale=50000&coordsys=gb&overviewmap=&X=557500&Y=102500&multimap.x=399&multimap.y=250

You can almost get the best of both worlds with a Campy 10 speed if you get a double, the medium cage derailleur, and the 13-29 cassette. It seems that most triple riders just stay in the middle ring most of the time (that's MOST, not ALL!). I think doubles tend to make you use the gears more effectively.

I just put an R/ah cassette (11x28) on my Schwinn, and it gives me all the choices I want.

Yeah, I have a 12-27 and I'm new to road biking. I'm getting along pretty well without using the 27. There is one hill by my house that makes me miss my mountain bike gears, but it's short. Other than that I figure the hills around here are as steap as any.

Hey, Rainman, go for that hill! So what if you have to stop! I have a similar hill here...first time up, had to stop and rest for a few minutes, then back on the bike, and struggled over the top. Next time up, my pedal cadence could have been counted in minutes per revolution, but I made it! What a great feeling! I have worked that hill about 6 times now, and as soon as my knee if fully healed, will hit it again. Each time it gets a little better. One of the things I love about biking, hitting the wall, but trying again untill you can make it! Really a great accomplishment!

MikeC has a good point, in order for me to get a really decent cadence, I'm on the middle ring most of the time.

Seems like a waste.

You folks are give great advice here, but you fail to remember that there's a wide range of experience and capabilities on this board. I am 49, weigh 240lb, and started cycling 2 months ago, and I do 25 miles a day... Compared with a 25 yr old guy, who weighs 110.02 lb and has 0.00302% body fat, and rides 100 miles to get a cup a coffee.. The latter will not need a triple, but when I am on my way home, and run out of gas in the middle of a hill, I thanks god I have a triple to get me home...

A

Originally posted by sorebutt
You folks are give great advice here, but you fail to remember that there's a wide range of experience and capabilities on this board... Compared with a 25 yr old guy, who weighs 110.02 lb and has 0.00302% body fat, and rides 100 miles to get a cup a coffee..
That's a good point, Butt. [BTW, I'm 37 and weigh about 164 lb -- I'm TRYING to get down to 160 :-(]

On the other hand, WildHare seemed to be looking for a performance road bike and that, IMO, equals a double. The problem for dirtbags who want to become roadies is that, they're so used to having a granny on their MTB's that they feel they ought to have one on their road bikes as well -- whether they really need one or not. If you're in for a tourer, the granny's a great thing, if you're in for a performance road bike for long, fast rides, the triple will just add problems.

Interesting ...

I opted for a triple (30-40-50 x 13-28) for several reasons:

1. I never had more than 10 speeds, and that was 25 years ago when I last biked.

2. I am 60 now, and using cycling to get/stay in shape for the rest of my life. [Though now that I have fallen in love with it, there are many more benefits as well.]

3. I am retiring and moving to Provence in a year or so, and have made climbing Mont Ventoux my goal.

4. The bike I am awaiting will probably be my last - even though it is, essentially, my first.

5. I reasoned that while I may have many more gears than I will need or use (even given that a few combos are not useable), that was a better choice than having too few and needing to make a change. Besides, the right shifting strategy could spread the wear over a wider range of parts.

So, having done that, I am now looking for said shifting strategy. It seems to me that using a gear calculator to find all the gear-inch factors for the various chainwheel/sprocket combinations is the first step. That's easy enough.

Then, assuming that when shifting "up", in the automotive sense, I would want to increase the gear-inch value on every shift. And clearly I can skip sprockets when doing that (ain't Campy great!?)

That seems to mean that sometimes, I will have to go back "down" several sprockets when going "up" a chainwheel, so that the gear-inch number increases without a huge jump. I assume that the same rationale is valid when "down"shifting.

Is that the general plan? Unlikely as it seems, do you ever actually fall to lower gear-inch combos and work back up before going to "higher" gears?

Seems like an elementary issue, but one I can't find dealt with anywhere. Except in a MTB book I saw in Borders last time I was on that side of the pond, which was entirely devoted to this specific subject. I almost bought it ... perhaps I should have.

Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

Cheers...Gary

Gary,
I, too, have looked for such information and found none. Just from chatting with people and watching on TV it seems like with newer systems with more cogs in back it is not generally necessary to shift chainrings unless a big change is needed such as need for much lower gear for climbing a steep hill or fine tuning to find the best gear for maintaining desired cadence on a long gradual climb. On the flat most people seem to settle on a chainring and shift only the rear. It also seems like most people don't shift down to a lower gear then work up every time they stop. Again we are talking about flat terrain. Riders seem to settle on a "normal" gear they are using that day and just kind of leave it there until they decide to build more speed. That is kind of what I have settled into. After a stop I just stand for a few meters until I have wound it up to 85-90 rpm then settle in. Hilly terrain would, I am sure, call for more shifting to find the best gear for a given slope.
I, like Gary, would welcome any suggestions from more experienced riders on recommended shift patterns/use of gears.
Regards,
Raymond

Originally posted by MichaelW
Our local one, up to the south downs is a 130m in 1000m , reaching 30% grade in places.
Lets play "mine is steeper than yours"


I did an Audax ride in the South Downs. Ye Gods! There was one hill, so steep, and I was so tired I just fell sideways, feet still clipped in. Luckily the road verges were banked and grassy.
I just lay on my side still clipped to the bike laughing weakly.
There was NO WAY I could get started up the hill again, I had to walk to a driveawy tha faced down hill and ride down into the road and turn up into the hill again.

Stew

There are a couple local hills so steep (but very short) I've realized there would be NO WAY I could unclip and actually expect to have my hard plastic cleat/shoe provide the necessary friction on the road to hold me up. So far I've just let my cadence drop to about 10 and "adrenaline" my way up. Sort of like doing a set of squats in the middle of a ride.

Watching those guys go up the Alto de Abantos ... twice, no less... gave me a new appreciation for hill climbing.

It is listed at 18%, but looked a lot steeper than the few 20+% bits in earlier stages. And some of it was cobblestones, just to make it interesting.

Pretty cool. They rounded a corner in the town of San Lorenzo de el Escorial, only to face an uphill straight that looks like it goes on forever.

Made me feel better about only 11% on Ventoux. :p

Cheers...Gary

You may want to look at the following reference for a discussion on the advantages of a triple chainring over a double:
Bicycling Magazine's Complete Guide to Bicycle Maintenace & Repair, 1986 edition (ISBN 0-87857-603-7), pages 262 to 279.

The book concludes a triple is the only way to have half step gearing (top 2 rings) with a granny range of gears provided by the inner ring. This uses a 52 & 48 tooth rings for the half step gearing and whatever inner ring is needed to give the correct low gear inches with your rear cog.

Most gearing is set up as Alpine or 1 & 1/2 steps to give a wide range. This uses the typical 52 & 39 rings. The half step method uses the 52 & 48 and the triple allows for the required lower gears.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

If you can wait a little bit, Shimano is coming out with a new Dura-Ace triple. They were in beta test and had a little trouble with the left shifter breaking. They are redesigning now and it proves to be a great new future product.

I saw the Campagnolo Record triple with carbon cranks at Bike Motion 2001 in Utrecht today. I have to say that it looks a little strange with the carbon on metal. Maybe they can find a way to anodize it. :o

I did not see the new Hyperon wheels, though they might have been there.

Cheers...Gary