Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - slipping cog question

So i have a new redline 925. my first fixed gear bike. I'm learning to skid, and i find that if i skid once, fine. Skid twice, fine. Skid the third time, and the rear cog slips, and then when i pedal forward, it slips back.

what's the problem and what's the solution to this? is there something that needs to be tightened or replaced? If i continue to do what i'm doing, am i going to strip something beyond repair?

Please, don't say "use brakes" because i have brakes, i'm just learning to skid for my own knowledge, thanks.

Tighten up your cog first, and then the lockring.

Tighten cog and lockring, though you've probably already stripped the hub.

pull the lockring and cog off, and check to make sure that the threads on the hub aren's stripped. if they're NOT stripped, stab it all back together with a bit of loctite, and wait a day before riding again. make sure you get everything TIGHT.

When I was building my 925, the stock cog and lockring were on scary loose. I imagine it wasn't properly tightened at the shop.

In the future, to post on this forum, you must first satisfy two requirements.
1. You must own a chain whip and a lockring tool.
2. You need to be able to the demonstrate the basic logic of torque and how to screw and unscrew threaded objects.


But seriously...never trust shop people to install your cog and lockring correctly, because unless then are fixed gear knowledgible, they will fail. Its worth learning how to do it yourself....the tools are cheaper than a new hub+cost of wheel rebuild.

heh. i'm all set with #2, my question was more: should this be happening, and is it permanent damage. i thought it was unusual to have a problem like this with a brand new bike.

next up: purchasing #1.


thanks everyone for your responses.

bonus points for making your own chainwhip out of bent spatula and the chain you stole off your little sister's mountain bike

This happened to me recently with my new fixed gear and I took it to a LBS and got it tightened before riding again. If you plan on skidding with a new bike do it for a little bit then go in and retighten as said previously, it will save you from this happening. Then check it again every once in a while. Stock is rarely set up perfect to begin with, you always have to make sure crap is done right before riding. Excluding cars I've always tried to live by the motto "take it apart first to know how it works then put it back together" that way you know it's done right and if it breaks it's only your own fault.

Actually I lack a chainwhip. I always gently rotafix the cog on and then install the lockring with a lockring tool. I've not once had a cog slip, ever, and I've worn through several by now on several bikes.

You wanna sell me that chaing gaurd you got with your bike???

You wanna sell me that chaing gaurd you got with your bike???

That was the first thing to come off the bike when i got it. How much you got?

stripped hubs sure are a bi tch.

In the future, to post on this forum, you must first satisfy two requirements.
1. You must own a chain whip and a lockring tool.
2. You need to be able to the demonstrate the basic logic of torque and how to screw and unscrew threaded objects.


But seriously...never trust shop people to install your cog and lockring correctly, because unless then are fixed gear knowledgible, they will fail. Its worth learning how to do it yourself....the tools are cheaper than a new hub+cost of wheel rebuild.

chainwhip, mah. it'd be nice, i guess, but without one i've done fine with a vise and a strip of chain over the cog. rotafix isn't something i've tried, but that'd work, too.

lockring tool....an old shirt....flathead screwdriver...hammer.

but, yeah, i think you're mostly right, just diy home methods won't always get you the results you want. the torque'll ber higher with the proper tools, so the diy methods can be even harder to get right

Would someone please post a link to a complete explanation of how to tighten a lockring (preferably with photos)? I bought this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Chain-Whip-Lockring-Tool-Park-Shimano-Disc-1-50-SHIP_W0QQitemZ200160837963QQihZ010QQcategoryZ27953QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
but I don't have any knowledge on how to use it. I searched through many pages of old threads without a simple answer. Most threads were from people who already know how to do this or from people showing how to do this without a chain whip or lockring tool.
Thanks

that's for a cassette lockring which is not the same as a track lockring

hey I own neither a chain whip, nor a lockring tool. Rotofixing and a little ingenuity got my **** on there good and tight in the beginning and I've never through all my skidding and trackstanding had any issues. but then...I was poor as hell when I finished my conversion.

Would someone please post a link to a complete explanation of how to tighten a lockring (preferably with photos)? I bought this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Chain-Whip-Lockring-Tool-Park-Shimano-Disc-1-50-SHIP_W0QQitemZ200160837963QQihZ010QQcategoryZ27953QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
but I don't have any knowledge on how to use it. I searched through many pages of old threads without a simple answer. Most threads were from people who already know how to do this or from people showing how to do this without a chain whip or lockring tool.
Thanks

1) That's a 3/32 chainwhip
2) The FR-5 is a cassette lockring tool. e.g not for fixed gears

if you don't already own a chainwhip, you may as well just buy a 1/8" one straight away. there may be occasions where you would prefer not to rotafix or it might be easier to use the tool.

if you care, the green park tool pin spanner is effective enough at tightening lockrings— more so than the punch & hammer method, but less so than a claw spanner. much cheaper though.

If you consider the cost and PITA of replacing a stripped hub, youre a fool if you dont buy the right tools for the job.
Do it right, do it once.

HOW TO TIGHTEN A COG AND LOCKRING

You need: Bike with fixed hub and lockring already installed; Lockring tool.

1. Ride hard up a hill. This will get the cog much tighter than a normal chain whip could.
2. Get the lockring super tight. It tightens counter clockwise.

chainwhip, mah. it'd be nice, i guess, but without one i've done fine with a vise and a strip of chain over the cog. rotafix isn't something i've tried, but that'd work, too.

lockring tool....an old shirt....flathead screwdriver...hammer.

but, yeah, i think you're mostly right, just diy home methods won't always get you the results you want. the torque'll ber higher with the proper tools, so the diy methods can be even harder to get right

The lockring tool is the most important thing. You can get more torque from it that a screwdriver and hammer. Rotafixing or mashing up a hill will get you as much torque as a chainwhip, so the chainwhip is less necessary. Rotafixing can actually get you way more torque that is necessary. Thats why I always emphasize "gently" rotafixing the cog.

Thanks for the asistance. I ordered the hozan pliers and a 1/8" chain whip from business cycles and I think I have a good idea of how to use them when they arrive. It all made sense once I took off the rear wheel and saw that the tools I first bought weren't going to do what I need them to do. Luckily, my cog isn't very loose and I can ride gently and use my front brake until the tools arrive.
Peace

You can mash as hard as you want on the pedals, just don't resist on them. While you wait for your tools it would be a really good idea to tighten your lockring with a hammer and flat screwdriver.

Just wanted to update and add photos to help out anyone looking for answers like I was. Here's the link to the photos on flickr because I couldn't figure out how to upload them to this thread: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14905852@N02/

The tools: 1. Wheels Manufacturing 1/8" Chain whip 2. Hozan C-203 Pliers

I found that I didn't really need the chain whip because the cog could not be tightened any further when I attempted to tighten it. Apparently pedaling hard does the trick as the cog would not budge. Surely, a chain whip would come in handy when you want to remove the cog.

The pliers are awesome. Tightened the lockring up quickly with no slipping. Never used the lockring wrenches, but I'm glad I bought the pliers.

I don't know why I tried to tighten the ring around the base of the crank arm. I don't even know what it's called or if I even needed to tighten it, but I tried. It did tighten up some, but I tried to put some extra leverage on it and it bent one of the indentions on the ring. I think I just saw a photo or something when researching the cog situation and attempted to tighten something without prior knowledge.

Thanks for all the help Bike Forums SSFG! Hope you are able to view the photos and I hope they can help in some way.

Rotafixing or mashing up a hill will get you as much torque as a chainwhip, so the chainwhip is less necessary

Wrong. Rotafixing a cog will allow you to torque the cog on much easier and much more than you could with ANY chainwhip with stock handle length.

Do you even know what rotafixing is?

Wrong. Rotafixing a cog will allow you to torque the cog on much easier and much more than you could with ANY chainwhip with stock handle length.

Do you even know what rotafixing is?

Here we go again on this one...

It's impossible to know how much torque you're getting when you rotafix because you have both the wheel (a giant spring) in one element of the system and a very small radius (the track cog) in the other. A chain whip still depends on the wheel to some extent (you gotta grab the rim), but at least you're using two long levers rather than one big one and one tiny one.

Here we go again on this one...

It's impossible to know how much torque you're getting when you rotafix because you have both the wheel (a giant spring) in one element of the system and a very small radius (the track cog) in the other. A chain whip still depends on the wheel to some extent (you gotta grab the rim), but at least you're using two long levers rather than one big one and one tiny one.

Here we go again.

You don't need to know how much torque you're getting from rotafix, the point is - you can get more than a chainwhip with similar effort.

Good enough for ya?

Wrong. Rotafixing a cog will allow you to torque the cog on much easier and much more than you could with ANY chainwhip with stock handle length.

If you read my post again (and quote the whole thing) I think you'll find that we agree.


Do you even know what rotafixing is?

;)

Here we go again.

You don't need to know how much torque you're getting from rotafix, the point is - you can get more than a chainwhip with similar effort.

Good enough for ya?


How can you get more torque from one long and one short lever than from two relatively long ones?

lockring tool....an old shirt....flathead screwdriver...hammer.


how's the old shirt come into play here?

I don't know why I tried to tighten the ring around the base of the crank arm. I don't even know what it's called or if I even needed to tighten it, but I tried. It did tighten up some, but I tried to put some extra leverage on it and it bent one of the indentions on the ring. I think I just saw a photo or something when researching the cog situation and attempted to tighten something without prior knowledge.

From your photo it looks like you tried to tighten up the bottom bracket lockring. This is definitely something that does NOT need to be overtightened because you are putting a lot of pressure on the bottom bracket bearings and will cause them to wear more quickly (just like when you over tighten a headset). If you have a looseball bottom bracket, it should be just tight enough to remove play on the crank arms. I'm not sure what the torque specs are for cartridge BBs but they are not so high that you need to really crank it down.

recently had a friend in boston riding downtown and his cog slipped badly. he crashed into the back of a trolley, chipped a tooth, messed up his wrist, etc. just had surgery today. please note: general bike maintenance includes tightening cog, lockring, chainring bolts, etc. not a one-time thing and most times, if you're not checking for it, you won't realize something is loose until there's a bike-splosion. and then you'll be sad.

1. Ride hard up a hill. This will get the cog much tighter than a normal chain whip could.
No it won't unless you have a 1:1 ratio.
Otherwise people would never be able to get cogs off with chainwhips.
Simple logic...
1) lever length (crankarm-tool handle). pretty similar
2) force exerted: somewhat bigger with the crank
3) crank transmission has a ~3:1 ratio (chainring-cog) that makes it weaker