Electric Bikes - Opinions Please: Giant Twist EBike sold in Europe

Hello all-

I am traveling to Europe (Belgium, The Netherlands and London) next week with my husband. I am looked previously at the old Giant Lite and am wondering if someone more technically knowledgeable than me could take a look at the specs for this bike at tell me what they think. Specifically, I would be using it to commute to work 14 miles each way. I have a chronic illness that during a flare-up makes riding the whole route very tiring. I currently have a Breezer and love it, in addition to a Trek 520, so the other option would be to convert one of my existing bikes. Thanks in advance. I love these forums. I have learned so much.

http://www.giantbicycles.com/en-GB/bikes/ebike/405/28836/

Hey Katmu. I've not had any personal experience with these ones, just some knowledge passed on to me from owners. So far as these pre-built bikes are concerned, there are a lot of lemons out there due to cheap imports and bad designs. The very first Giant lafree (twist) was a cow and not a good performer.

I've heard nothing but good things from people who owned a Lafree twist lite, or a "twist lite". Supposedly the new models are also pretty good, but the people I know just owned the twist lite.

The range characteristics on this bike sound almost too good to be true, and the weight, although high, isn't unmanageable.

I would try and find a dealer to try one out beforehand, that would help you know better than anything someone can say about a product :)

Another thing is, the price tag is very high, once you're up to that point you can get any conversion kit you want, including the top shelf models like Heinzmann, BionX or Stokemonkey.

I have a Lite, which is the same as the Twist, and it's a great bike. Your range is going to be in the 20's and your speed is going to be around 17mph. It was the lightest big market electric in its day. I don't believe they are made any longer (the one I have has a Panasonic motor that drive the chain, not a hub motor). The price was right at one grand before the Xtracycle kit.

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/XtraGiant.jpg
With XrtaCycle

Hello all-

I am traveling to Europe (Belgium, The Netherlands and London) next week with my husband. I am looked previously at the old Giant Lite and am wondering if someone more technically knowledgeable than me could take a look at the specs for this bike at tell me what they think. Specifically, I would be using it to commute to work 14 miles each way. I have a chronic illness that during a flare-up makes riding the whole route very tiring. I currently have a Breezer and love it, in addition to a Trek 520, so the other option would be to convert one of my existing bikes. Thanks in advance. I love these forums. I have learned so much.

http://www.giantbicycles.com/en-GB/bikes/ebike/405/28836/

Most ebikes advertise overly optimistic ranges, I assume pedalic do likewise. And 90-120km with a 324 Watt-hour NiMH battery is way overly optimistic.

Sanyo is not quite top of the line, but well above average. The regenerative braking is nice, particularly if you are in a hilly area. It looks like a nice urban or hilly commuter. The Nexus 8 and Giant frame should be reliable.

What price are they asking for this pedalic?

If this had the Panasonic drive unit of older models - it would be worth a good chunk of money. Sanyo front hub motor? Might as well get a hub kit and put it on a good frame/chassis IMO. Hardly the same class of machine as the Panasonic drive Giants! If you want a bike with the Panasonic drive unit - I have one and it's an amazing pedal-assist design, check Japanese websites for Panasonic or National electric power ebikes. Find one for under a grand - it would be a good deal.

P.S. anyone who likes the Lite, here's one on ebay at the moment:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Giant-Lite-Electric-assist-Bicycle_W0QQitemZ320168931873QQihZ011QQcategoryZ42313QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I just came across it looking during my weekly browse.

Thanks all.

AbneyCat, that one on ebay was a good deal-- it went for only $665. I had found one locally a few months ago, but the frame size was a bit much for my almost 5' 3" self.

Due to the massive hassle of shipping from either the EU or Japan, I think I am going to check into the Heinzmann, BionX or Stokemonkey.

Are any of these better than another in terms of maintenance and hill-climbing ability. I live in a fairly hilly area of Minneapolis. Thanks.

Well, here's are my takes on those motors. If you're looking for lots of torque to help you out on the hills, your best bets are either with a higher winding count direct hub motor like a Crystalyte 408, or a geared hub motor like a Heinzmann kit.

I'd also suggest looking into some other frame mounted options, which usually have good torque simply due to their ability to utilize a gearing range unlike a hub motor, and they can weigh in pretty light (as litte as 6-7lbs motor+drivetrain adjustments): but since you mentioned maintenance as a concern, these do need to be maintained. Not a huge amount, but more than the hub kits in comparison, which require literally nothing.

Stokemonkey isn't in production at the moment, and is pretty exclusively for the Xtracycle bikes and bikes refitted with the Free Radical. The Stokemonkey is a monster, anything its not able to carry would break your bike anyways: the thing is, it isn't available right now, and you need the Xtracycle bike design to make it work. This is also a frame mounted motor, so it would require more maintenance.

BionX, well a 350w version might do fine, but if you're not always up for wanting to climb lots of hills, i'm not sure that this is the best choice for you either. BionX does certainly climb hills alright, but its not nearly as big a hill climber as some other options out there. These kits are great low maintenance and very complete, low weight (7-9lbs at the motor), easy biking systems, but they're not the fastest or strongest. I wouldn't necessarily discount this one, see if you can find one to try out!

Heinzmann might cost more than that Twist, not too sure to be honest, i'd initially put it out there as an example of a kit you could procure for that price, but it might be slightly more. Heinzmann motors are geared internally though, and produce a *massive* amount of power for a hub motor their size, along with having a track record as some of the most reliable and finely crafted systems out there.

If you're looking to lighten the budget, or don't mind the weight of your bike, Crystalyte is a fine choice. Their kits aren't the lightest (16lbs at the motor), or the most refined, but they're solid and allow for a lot of user customization, along with wide availability of parts, and you can pick any battery you want to. These kits are also very well priced, you can pick up a complete motor on a wheel, controller and throttle for about $400CAD, then pick the battery+charger of your choice. You can also pick your own wheel if you desire, and a bike shop can put the motor into it. Zero maintenance involved in a Crystalyte motor, unless you abuse it.

So what do we think about an e-bike conversion of the hopefully soon to be released Surly Big Dummy?

Heinzmann might cost more than that Twist, not too sure to be honest, i'd initially put it out there as an example of a kit you could procure for that price, but it might be slightly more. Heinzmann motors are geared internally though, and produce a *massive* amount of power for a hub motor their size, along with having a track record as some of the most reliable and finely crafted systems out there.

Heinzmann motors are not internally geared, they are hub motors and come in two versions, for front or rear wheel fitting. The rear wheel motor can be used in conjunction with an external derailleur.
They are well made and we've had no problem with the preformance of ours.
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Estelle/Estelle1.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Estelle/Motor.jpg

The internal gearing i'm referring to might not be quite what you think. They're geared internally, but it doesn't shift or change at all. Rather, what it does is allows Heinzmann to put a smaller, faster, lighter motor inside the hub and then make good on that using the internal planetary gears. The end result is a motor that gets the best of both worlds: low maintenance like a direct drive hub motor, at less weight, but with an extremely good power output for the size.

You can read more on that here:
http://ebikes.ca/hubmotors.shtml

P.S. AllenG, thats another nice bike. Is the Heinzmann louder than other hub motors you've tried?

The Heinzmann is the only hub motor I have, my other e bike is a Giant Twist which has the Panasonic motor inline to the chain.
The Heinzmann is louder than the Panasonic motor but not very noticeably.

Thanks for the link.