Well it happened to me

[freemti]

While exercising (sic) my right to travel on any road not explicitly ilegal to cycle on, I was "pulled over" by what appeared to be an off duty cop and basically harrassed.

Here is the scenario, I was travelling my daily commute on a section of PA state rte 29. This particular part is a 4 lane divided highway*, mainly only because a)its newer than most of rte 29 and b)several local corporate parks where built close by/adjacent to and probably help fund the widening. I have to make a left hand turn from a dedicated left hand turn lane at a light at the bottom of a hill. Therefore I need to get over into the normal left hand lane. I normally look to move over as soon as possibly since the traffic is quite fast and the sight lines no so good - if there is a decent sized break in the traffic, I move over into the left lane well ahead of the actual dedicated lane and tuck to the left of the lane until the actual merge which today was 200-300ft

I do see a veichle behind me in my rear view mirror, but he's not that close and I figure I will get to the merge about the same time as he comes up on my tail. Now I hear the siren, not thinking it is for me I merrily pedal on but a bit faster since I see that the car is also merging into the left turn lane (I'm trying to be nice, but the light is red anyway, neither of us is going anywhere) Next thing I see is a large black king cab pickup pulling up beside me (as I coast to a stop at the light) with flashing lights and what looks like a local policeman behind the wheel. He says something like "you can't ride in that lane", I say "I have to make this turn and I had to move over", he says "Doesn't matter, you have to stay right and walk the bike accross at the light" adding at the end of his (completely wrong legal opinion regarding PA roads) pronouncement "This is a highway, not a f**king bikeway!"

At this point, I decide discretion is the better part of valor and don't say any thing at all thinking there's not much point getting into a pissing match with the man in blue. He's wrong, I know he's wrong, but he probably doesn't want to hear it from me. He's driving a very large black truck so probably has some issues with self image to begin with and the fact that he felt the need to "pull me over" in what is likely his own veichle to basically vent on me didn't bode well for a confrontation either.

I'm OK with the whole thing, I feel I was 100% in the right, I had to make the left merge into the turn lane. I'm just kind of surprised this kind of thing I've read about on the forums has happened to me.

*I put an asterix on highway because I don't think a four lane road automatically is considered a "highway". Its not like I was biking down the fast lane of the PA turnpike. But semantically I guess I could be wrong

[genec]

What is the definition of hiway in your area? In CA, basically all surface streets are "hiways" and bicycles are permitted. The breakdown is that a limited access road is a "freeway" where bikes are NOT permitted, except as otherwise indicated.

So is state route 29 a limited access freeway, or a local hiway, with the latter probably a legal road for bicycles.

As far as "Obie" there... unless he shows a badge or some sort of official ID, he is nothing more than a citizen with a big truck. You probably could have ignored him.

[elfich]

First question: Is this a restricted access road; as in a full highway with 70 mph cars, access ramps and exits etc.

Or is it semi-restricted but still has cross traffic and stop lights to control traffic flow?

[freemti]

Not a limitted access road at all, just your basic 2 lane country road that transitions into a 4 laner in places mainly by new developments, corporate parks etc...

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.058629,-75.528603&spn=0.016358,0.028539&z=15&om=1

or zoom in for a real close look:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.056794,-75.528603&spn=0.002045,0.003567&t=k&z=18&om=1

I'm making the left at the light right where the white car is.

[webist]

Did he "pull you over" or simply stop next to you in the turn lane? He probably noticed you after you were already in the left lane instead of the right and couldn't hold himself back after turing on the light and siren. He didn't ticket you did he? I'm guessing of course, but believe he may have thought you were riding in the high-speed lane and was embarrassed that he didn't note that you were actually turning left.

He was clearly wrong of course, but was any harm done?

[joejack951]

I've biked through that same intersection a few times going to and from a friend's house. Rt. 29 is most definitely NOT a limited access freeway. It's a typical highway (you could call it a "major" highway) that cyclists are allowed to use just like any other vehicle. This cop was wrong, just like a few other cops I've had the pleasure of talking to.

FYI, PA state vehicle code: http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/VEHICLE_CODE/INDEX.SHTML

I will add that the PA laws regarding cyclists' position on the roadway are the best I've seen. They group cyclists in with all other slow moving vehicles. On any road with more than one lane in your direction, "as far right as practicable" is not applicable. You get the full right hand lane any time there is one regardless of width.

[Helmet Head]

What is the definition of hiway in your area? In CA, basically all surface streets are "hiways" and bicycles are permitted. The breakdown is that a limited access road is a "freeway" where bikes are NOT permitted, except as otherwise indicated.
That's backwards, Gene. Bicyclists are permitted on all freeways in CA, except as otherwise indicated. That's why you see "no bicycles" on almost every freeway onramp (because if the notice is not there, then we are allowed).

[Helmet Head]

"This is a highway, not a f**king bikeway!"


Yep, another classic manifestation of the widespread notion that bikes are not vehicles but toys, and don't belong anywhere where they are in the way of motorists. This is also another example of how the existence of bikeways work to reinforce this notion (yes, I know some people thought this way before there were any bikeways, but comments like this show how the work to reinforce the notion).

Good job not engaging, though I might have nicely asked if I might have his badge number, and filed a complaint.

[freemti]

Upon reflection I think there were some factors that may mitigate somewhat this cops response to what he perceived as a violation of some sort. I probably did move into the left lane sooner than I "had" to. I do this ride daily (its my commute of course I do:rolleyes:) and this part is a little tricky, there can be a lot of traffic at time and I have to get over otherwise I'm screwed. So I do go into the left lane whenever I get a clear shot at it, this road is a 45 mph zone and gaps in traffic can close up quick. I guess you could make a case that I'm in the left lane when I shouldn't be being that the actual merge is possibly 100's of feet ahead. Second I didn't signal that I was turning left once I was in the lane. In my defense I'm generally pretty busy pedaling fast at this point to keep my speed up so I can merge safely intially as well as make it to the turn lane as quick as possible and I prefer to have both hands on my bars when I'm going fast. I'm generally doing 35 mph or more at this point (downhill obviously)

I suppose its true that the cop didn't realize my intentions. Doesn't get him off the hook for not knowing the law though. I'm not one for thinking that the police have the right to freely stop anyone unless its for just cause, that's just me, so I take umbrage at being pulled over. He had his siren on and those undercover car style flashing lights going - to me that's close enough. His language was uncalled for too.

[-=£em in Pa=-]

Thats terrible Freemti......
Just 10 years ago Rt. 29 was a very nice bikeable road.
The developers have ruined Chester Co. :mad:
I dont think it was a real cop though for a few differnt reasons.
I think it was one of those wacky volunteer fireman.
You might see the vehicle again on your commute, maybe you can
check it out more thoroughly(?)

[genec]

That's backwards, Gene. Bicyclists are permitted on all freeways in CA, except as otherwise indicated. That's why you see "no bicycles" on almost every freeway onramp (because if the notice is not there, then we are allowed).

OK, I stand corrected... you're right, it is just regularly posted.

However, bear in mind that the places where it is not posted were fought for, so the default by CALTRANS is to post the "no bicycles signs" unless excepted, thus the effect is that freeways ARE closed to cyclists, unless the sign is removed. (and apparently even the lack of the sign has not been enough for some CHP who believe that the freeways are default closed to cyclists... per a recent argument in the bay area regarding an opened section of freeway)

[Steve Hamlin]

My gut reaction is that this guy wasn't a police officer at all. . .(swearing being a big clue. . .)

Just some knucklehead with a PA system in his truck. What are you basing his cop-ness on. . .? Was he in a uniform. . .? It sounds like maybe from your description, but I'm not sure. . .

[buzzman]

My gut reaction is that this guy wasn't a police officer at all. . .(swearing being a big clue. . .)

Just some knucklehead with a PA system in his truck. What are you basing his cop-ness on. . .? Was he in a uniform. . .? It sounds like maybe from your description, but I'm not sure. . .

I agree. Unless he was in uniform your description implies that you assumed he was a police officer. Sounds more like a service vehicle of some type. I think you were had.

[maddyfish]

.
I think it was one of those wacky volunteer fireman.
(?)

Those guys are nuts! One of them tried to pull me over.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I agree. Unless he was in uniform your description implies that you assumed he was a police officer. Sounds more like a service vehicle of some type. I think you were had.

My vote is volunteer fireman with no authority at all to enforce traffic rules except to those gullible enough to listen to him. Did he say he was a police officer? Maybe you are making incorrect assumptions about his status, as was the big mouth about yours. You didn't by any chance get his license number did you?

[Helmet Head]

OK, I stand corrected... you're right, it is just regularly posted.

However, bear in mind that the places where it is not posted were fought for, so the default by CALTRANS is to post the "no bicycles signs" unless excepted, thus the effect is that freeways ARE closed to cyclists, unless the sign is removed. (and apparently even the lack of the sign has not been enough for some CHP who believe that the freeways are default closed to cyclists... per a recent argument in the bay area regarding an opened section of freeway)

True.

[Blue Order]

My gut reaction is that this guy wasn't a police officer at all. . .(swearing being a big clue. . .).years ago, I had a uniformed cop, in a patrol car, tell me to slow down or he'd kick my f....ing ass if he saw me speeding again.

But no ticket.

[freemti]

Well he had the proto-typical blue shirt on. His truck had the xenon flashers like an undercover car, not the blue light that the volunteer firemen have, The siren sounded like a police siren whoop-whoop kind of deal. I think he was a local/municipal cop - we have a lot of smaller police shops around here, so maybe that accounts for his unprofessional language.

I'm sure I will go another year or more without anything like this happening again. I'm certainly not going to change my commute technique one iota and I'm certainly not going to put my life in danger to obey some debatable legal minutiae that doesn't take practical circumstances into account.

[CB HI]

Please tell us that you got his plate #, so you can report him!

If he was a cop, he desreves to have someone more senior explain the law to him.
If he was not a cop, he deserves a serious talking to for using the lights and siren (plus a rather large fine and probation).

[Allister]

"This is a highway, not a f**king bikeway!"

So if you shouldn't be riding a bicycle on it unless it's a 'bikeway', shouldn't that mean he's not allowed to use the 'highway' unless he's high?

[CB HI]

Here is my story:

I filed a police report on a SUV driver that harassed me when I took the lane going downhill doing 42 mph. Speed limit was 35 mph. The driver tailgated me, honked the horn, used a siren (that I thought was from a CB radio hooked up to a loud speaker), sounded an emergency vehicle horn. I checked my mirror and no police light, so I still thought it was some idiot using CB radio to imitate the police.

When we started heading uphill, my speed dropped to 35 mph and the shoulder widens, so I moved to the shoulder to let the cars pass. The SUV driver slows to match my dropping speed, and at 20 mph moves into the shoulder and squeezes me near the guardrail. I hear some yelling, but can’t understand what is being said due to surrounding traffic noise. I can’t see the driver but see a women in the passenger seat. Finally the driver pulls back into the lane and speeds off.

I call 911 and explain what happened and provide the license # of the SUV. The dispatcher starts telling me to get out of the traffic lane, that I have no business taking the lane and that it is against the law to ride in the traffic lane (Hawaii law allows taking the lane for all the same reasons most of you know of in other states). I finally tell the dispatcher to just do her job and dispatch an officer. Officer arrives and takes my statement.

Once I get into work, I call the mayors office and complain about the dispatcher. Next day the police captain in charge of dispatch calls me and tells me that he listened to the 911 call tape. He apologizes for the improper behavior of the dispatcher, agreed that the dispatcher did not understand the law and he said he would fix the problem of dispatchers providing legal advice.

Two weeks later, Internal Affairs calls me to say that they need my statement notarized. The light bulb then comes on in my head, the SUV driver was a cop. In Honolulu, many police are allowed to buy a vehicle of their choice from an approved list. Many pick SUVs. The cop gets about $500 a month to pay for the vehicle and maintenance, and gets to use the vehicle as a cop car and family vehicle. The police department installs sirens and a removable blue bubble light. So the dispatcher knew it was a cop when I called 911.

I notarize my statement. Several weeks later the police captain of the officer who harassed me conducts an investigative interview. The captain is asking questions to find out if I am a police hater, trying to see if I am filing false charges. He does confirm that the cop is in juvenile division and was not authorized to have the blue light attached and was not authorized to turn on the siren. So, the captain was not concerned about the cops harassment of a bicyclist, just that the cop used the siren when not authorized. As the interview continues, the captain ask me why I keep referring to the driver as a “he”. I explain that I never got a chance to see the driver, but because the passenger was a women and it was morning commute time, I assumed that the SUV contained a couple commuting into town together. The captain gives me this look of, ‘well your right about the couple part’, and he says the cop is a “she”. The indication was clear that the cop was the bull side of a domestic partnership and the cop was trying to show how macho she could be to her partner by harassing a bicyclist. The interview finally ends.

Two weeks later, I get a letter from the police department that says in part “Please rest assured that if it was appropriate to take action, that appropriate action was taken.” In other words, we cops keep our dirty laundry private and we will not tell you taxpayers if we disciplined a bad cop or just gave a pass to the bad cop.

[Helmet Head]

Here is my story:

I filed a police report on a SUV driver that harassed me when I took the lane going downhill doing 42 mph. Speed limit was 35 mph. The driver tailgated me, honked the horn, used a siren (that I thought was from a CB radio hooked up to a loud speaker), sounded an emergency vehicle horn. I checked my mirror and no police light, so I still thought it was some idiot using CB radio to imitate the police.

When we started heading uphill, my speed dropped to 35 mph and the shoulder widens, so I moved to the shoulder to let the cars pass. The SUV driver slows to match my dropping speed, and at 20 mph moves into the shoulder and squeezes me near the guardrail. I hear some yelling, but can’t understand what is being said due to surrounding traffic noise. I can’t see the driver but see a women in the passenger seat. Finally the driver pulls back into the lane and speeds off.

I call 911 and explain what happened and provide the license # of the SUV. The dispatcher starts telling me to get out of the traffic lane, that I have no business taking the lane and that it is against the law to ride in the traffic lane (Hawaii law allows taking the lane for all the same reasons most of you know of in other states). I finally tell the dispatcher to just do her job and dispatch an officer. Officer arrives and takes my statement.

Once I get into work, I call the mayors office and complain about the dispatcher. Next day the police captain in charge of dispatch calls me and tells me that he listened to the 911 call tape. He apologizes for the improper behavior of the dispatcher, agreed that the dispatcher did not understand the law and he said he would fix the problem of dispatchers providing legal advice.

Two weeks later, Internal Affairs calls me to say that they need my statement notarized. The light bulb then comes on in my head, the SUV driver was a cop. In Honolulu, many police are allowed to buy a vehicle of their choice from an approved list. Many pick SUVs. The cop gets about $500 a month to pay for the vehicle and maintenance, and gets to use the vehicle as a cop car and family vehicle. The police department installs sirens and a removable blue bubble light. So the dispatcher knew it was a cop when I called 911.

I notarize my statement. Several weeks later the police captain of the officer who harassed me conducts an investigative interview. The captain is asking questions to find out if I am a police hater, trying to see if I am filing false charges. He does confirm that the cop is in juvenile division and was not authorized to have the blue light attached and was not authorized to turn on the siren. So, the captain was not concerned about the cops harassment of a bicyclist, just that the cop used the siren when not authorized. As the interview continues, the captain ask me why I keep referring to the driver as a “he”. I explain that I never got a chance to see the driver, but because the passenger was a women and it was morning commute time, I assumed that the SUV contained a couple commuting into town together. The captain gives me this look of, ‘well your right about the couple part’, and he says the cop is a “she”. The indication was clear that the cop was the bull side of a domestic partnership and the cop was trying to show how macho she could be to her partner by harassing a bicyclist. The interview finally ends.

Two weeks later, I get a letter from the police department that says in part “Please rest assured that if it was appropriate to take action, that appropriate action was taken.” In other words, we cops keep our dirty laundry private and we will not tell you taxpayers if we disciplined a bad cop or just gave a pass to the bad cop.
Our biggest task, as bicycling advocates, is to change the culture.
But to do that, we have to make it our top priority within bicycling advocacy.
We have a long way to go, because right now the top priorities are contrary to this.

[SSP]

Study your state laws, and learn the relevant vehicle code sections. Then, when some dummie tries to BS you, you can quote the relevant sections of the legal code back to them.

[genec]

Our biggest task, as bicycling advocates, is to change the culture.
But to do that, we have to make it our top priority within bicycling advocacy.
We have a long way to go, because right now the top priorities are contrary to this.

Yet another situation in which the "authorities" don't know the law... and you think perhaps the average driver does???

I believe we have "a long way to go" simply because cycling advocates don't bother telling the general public what the laws are and what the rights of cyclists are.

Perhaps if we started with public campaigns informing the public, and cyclists... a huge chuck of "a long way to go" would be readily resolved.

[Helmet Head]

Yet another situation in which the "authorities" don't know the law... and you think perhaps the average driver does???

I believe we have "a long way to go" simply because cycling advocates don't bother telling the general public what the laws are and what the rights of cyclists are.

Perhaps if we started with public campaigns informing the public, and cyclists... a huge chuck of "a long way to go" would be readily resolved.
We can't even get cyclists interested in learning what the esoteric laws and rights of cyclists are, and you expect the general public to pay attention? :rolleyes:

What the average driver knows about the rules of the road in general is good enough for a cyclist who knows the laws and rights of cyclists, and rides accordingly. Sure, once in a rare while you run into a jerk who tries to teach you a lesson. Ignore him. So what?

For the cyclist who doesn't know, what drivers know or don't is irrelevant.

[littlewaywelt]

Sounds like you had a right to be on that road.

Assuming you did, no way I'd let that slide with the po, but that's just me. I'd explain the law as I understand it, and then if he disagrees, ask him to cite me. If he won't I'd ask for his badge number. While these types of situations seem rare (I have fewer and fewer problems with motorists every year) this type of interaction seems like yet another perfect example of why having a handlebar video cam can be a good thing.

[Carusoswi]

Gut reaction when someone less than knowledgeable is in position (or leads you to think that they are in position) to exude or exercise authority is to challenge them with the truth. Unfortunately, even if you know the code, anyone who wears such a heavy chip on the shoulder will likely not be impressed or dissuaded because you can quote the law chapter and verse, even if (sometimes especially if) they are a police officer.

If they are not an officer, you could put yourself in danger by engaging them.

It's easy to talk about exercising restraint, not so easy to do when you are presented with the situation described by the OP.

. . . and as much as I like to see the culture change, I am not out there riding with an agenda to get actively involved in that mission. I ride by myself to get away from the daily grind. I don't yet another stress inducing project.

I have no interest in learning codification numbers. My general knowledge of what's right and wrong as written and also the spirit behind what has been written should suffice.

In my experience, for every maddening incident like the one described, I have countless interactions with drivers who are as pleasant back to me as I try to be to them. If I have to be proactive in my interactions with drivers, pleasantries are the tools of the trade I want in my toolbox.

I make a point to be aware of right-turning drivers who actually slow down and let me cross through an intersection ahead of them.

The each of the last two nights on my way home from the office, oncoming drivers who have no stop sign stopped and waved me through an intersection where, if drivers don't yield there right of way to me, getting across safely can mean quite a long wait during heavy traffic. I make certain to acknowledge those drivers with a big wave.

The OP bears absolutely no responsibility for what happened, and I applaud him for following up intelligently. But, for me, the task of getting actively involved in "changing the culture" will have to be taken by someone else. I just want to ride out my days in peace.

Caruso

[zeytoun]

We can't even get cyclists interested in learning what the esoteric laws and rights of cyclists are, and you expect the general public to pay attention?
Judging by the response on this forum, I think that cyclists are very interested in understanding the laws and rights of cyclists. They're just not looking to convert to a religion...

[MarkBaz]

Freemti,

I got buzzed by a black King cab pickup with "firefighter" plates riding on 401 on Thurs. There was noone in the other lane so he just wanted to be a d**k. As I rode past (I was merging into a right turn only lane) I yelled at him to give me three feet of space. Did the truck have tinted windows? All I could see throught the tint was his huge gut so he didn't exactly look like a cop. I wouldn't worry about it. You have a right to use the road in a safe manner. Anyway, if I set you up for an altercation, I'm sorry, but the guy pissed me off ;) Getting across 29 is no easy task anyway so the guy really needs to shut up.

[Helmet Head]

Judging by the response on this forum, I think that cyclists are very interested in understanding the laws and rights of cyclists. They're just not looking to convert to a religion...
But this forum is the tiny percentage of cyclists who are interested enough in the topic of safety and advocacy to bother to come here.

Note how little interest this forum has always had as compared to, say, commuting or mechanics.

I don't think the cyclists who participate here, or even just lurk, are typical.

[Helmet Head]

A lot of people comment about a lot of stuff, pedant.

[LittleBigMan]

His language was uncalled for too.
I agree 100%.

Sounds like a green cop (and/or a crooked one.)

[Helmet Head]

Heck, the powers that be created a forum just because of you.
:love::love::love:

[Brian Ratliff]

It's kind of funny hearing HH call someone else a "pendant". :roflmao:

[LittleBigMan]

I thought I was the King of Derailed Threads

[tpelle]

Where I live, I can't think of a single police department that would permit an officer to install a light and siren on their personal vehicle.

It is common, however, for firefighters in volunteer and combination departments to do so - except that they have to have written permission from their chief, and have the vehicle, the light, and siren installation inspected annually by the authorizing agency (fire department chief or designated representative) to make sure the vehicle is safe and that the light and siren - and their installation - meet minimum performance specs.

Additionally, for the volunteer firemen, the light and siren are not permitted to be used unless actually responding to an emergency, and one was not permitted to be used without the other. The only exception to that rule would be if someone were to be stopped in a traffic lane, he could leave the light on and not run the siren. The purpose of this is in the case of a volunteer fireman is responding to his station to answer a call, but his route took him past the actual scene - a traffic accident, let's say - and the fireman would be required to stop to render whatever assistance he could. In my old department, all volunteer firemen were prohibited from responding directly, but instead had to go to the station so as to respond on an apparatus.

In my state, the only emergency vehicle permitted by law to respond with lights-only and no siren is an ambulance, and only then if the use of the siren was detrimental to the condition of the patient. In all cases, everyone - fire trucks, police cars, and usually ambulances - had to run lights and sirens simultaneously. No exceptions. This is not always done in practice, however.

[ChipSeal]

I would've just said to him;" Fella. if you were so important they would've issued you lights and a siren..."

Um, well he he, I guess that wouldn't be the best response in this case.:o

[daredevil]

I didn't take time to read the whole thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned. If his light wasn't blue, I would have ignored him. Only law officers have blue lights and they are the only ones with any authority to speak of over you anyway.