Training & Nutrition - super-bonk

i've been riding (road bike) for two months. before i started cycling i ran regularly, so i'm not a complete softy, but not joe athlete either.

most of my rides have been 15 to 20 miles, both flats and hills. but twice now i've gone on a group ride of 32-38 miles with hills. the first time was a bit tough (this was a month ago), but last weekend i felt really strong. brought along some fig newtons to re-energize in the middle of the ride, and that helped.

however, BOTH rides left me completely wasted the rest of the day, and even a little dragging the next. 20 miles doesn't have this effect, but 30 does.

so what's going on here? or rather, i think i know what's going on (i'm exhausted!). but how do i keep from completely falling over later on in the day? i felt fine for the first couple of hours after the ride, and i'm eating proper meals and hydrating.

any suggestions for avoiding this 'super-bonk' i'm experiencing? or will it just get better as i get used to the added miles?

oh and 'real' food ideas (if that's the solution) are preferred over the 'performance' stuff. i'm not really into eating powder or goo or lead weights disguised as energy bars.

thanks!

(and quit laughing at my 30-35 miles...i'm working on it! :) )

Hi rippo,

For someone in good health and with a normal base of endurance, 30-35 miles shouldn't really exhaust you. You might try eating a bit more, drinking a bit more, and making sure you're fairly well rested going into the ride. If that doesn't do it, I'd seriously consider a medical checkup to make sure there are no underlying causes.

Paul

hmm. doctor says i'm in fine health (could lose a few pounds). i was in just a few weeks ago, pulse is good, blood pressure good. so i don't think i'm about to keel over.

oh there's about 1800 ft of elevation on this group ride as well. that's not a lot but it ain't flat.

what do people do to recover after rides? other than eat and take a nap?

Without knowing much more about your situation, I can only guess at why you are feeling exhuasted, but the following are fairly typical and might apply to you as well.


Chronic Dehydration. Most folks walk around dehydrated most of the time. It is important to be well hydrated all the time, not just when exercising. Try carrying a liter of water with you all day and just sipping on it from time to time. You'll be amazed at how much more you drink if it is available immediately.
Lack of sleep. Some folks require more than 8 hours, especially very active people. If you don't get enough, you cannot sustain a high level of physical activity.
Poor workout planning. Hard days should be followed by easy days. Hard days back to back will wear you down over time. This creeps up on you so it is hard to notice. Also rest days mean rest; no barn-building and calling it a rest day just 'cause you were not cycling.
High Humidity. In humid conditions, no matter how much you sweat you can't get cool. If you can't get cool, performance suffers. Application of ice helps some (in your shirt, hat, pockets, etc).
Sudden increase in mileage or speed. There is a period of time where the body adjusts to a new workload, before the training effect takes place. If you add too much, too soon, you won't be able to eat enough or sleep enough to compensate. The rule of thumb is 10%/week increase, but this rule is pretty poor and suitable really only for novices. It varies from individual to individual. Some can handle spikes in workload greater than others. It also depends on the level of work you are currently doing. Adding at the margins to a high level costs alot, adding when overall work levels are low costs less.


Any or all of these might apply. As I said it is a pretty individual thing.

Dan

I think that your biggest problem is simply dehydration. The 30 milers really shouldn't hurt you physically if you can easily do 20. Just drink more water afterwards. I really think it's that simple.

may not apply to you but heres a couple of things i do on rides that go a good bit over 2 hours.
i drink a good mouthful of water every 10 minutes (actually i do this on all rides, i just think its a good habit.)
i eat a mouthful of food every 20 to 25 min. i bring a sandwich bag with some gronala bars cut up in bite size pieces, and some pretzels. i usually bring an apple also, for later on in the ride. i find eating small amounts frequently worked better than eating the same amount but waiting till halfway thru.
i also bring a squeeze bottle of honey and take a mouthful later on in the ride.
when im done i have some yogurt and a can of coke right after i stretch.
i'm not in the greatest shape but feel pretty good even after 5 plus hour rides.
like others said it sounds to me more like you were dehydrated. i'd try drinking more frequently next time, not necassarily more total over the ride ( altho that wont hurt either). if you drink more often your body makes better use of it.

I'll also assume dehydration, i was told this a LONG time ago and it works. Look at your urine, if its not comming out clear your not fully hydrated!! i try to stick with this but it is hard with work and everyday life. Also, I do 30 milers now 2-3 tims a week and each ride I have a piece of fruit awaiting at the end, and i drink at least 2-3 litre's of water (yes, i do stop to fill them up again) on the ride.

hey thanks everyone! i do generally (i mean at work, etc) stay hydrated. i probably consume 2.5 - 3 liters of water a day, based on how many times i'm refilling my water bottle. however i can't remember how much water i had after the ride...that could be part of the problem if i didn't have much. i did however have at least a liter *during* the ride.

it could be i'm just not up to the right endurance level yet. i kept up with everyone and didn't feel like i'd maxed out. it was just later that afternoon i felt wasted. i can try eating more during these longer rides. the first group ride i bonked out during the ride, this time i waited until afterward. so perhaps i just have to build up to it.

i know this is all very individual, and figuring out why i'm bonking is impossible in a forum! so what do you all do after a ride? eat and drink something specific? take a nap? mow the lawn and go for a run? (shaharidan, you told me already and thanks!)

I was also gonna suggest maybe try a nap. i also remember reading on another thread someone found yoga to be very energizing after a long ride, maybe give that a shot.

i feel that bonking is not just about what is going on while on the bike. complete body exhaustion, including mental exhaustion can occur when the cumulative factors of sleep, diet, stress (mental and physical) collide with the high standards you set for yourself on the bike.

they say that the best gains are made off the bike...well you can do equal damage off the bike as on.

RiPHRaPH, i think i'm ok mentally, although how would i know if i'm not? crazy people think they're sane. :) job is low stress, my attitude about cycling is good. got a 9mo baby so there's a little stress in my life...

shaharidan, perhaps a nap is indeed in order. after all when i go cycling in the evenings, i'm good and tired afterwards but then i get to go to bed, and wake up feeling pretty good.

the only downside to a nap is that my saturday morning is already gone, and then to spend another hour sleeping...that's a lot of the day taken up with a selfish hobby.

i'd rather find some other solution. i think i'm just going to have to stick it out and my endurance will build up. but any after-cycling diet or other routines are very welcome.

Try this homebrew recovery beverage: 5 tablespoons (yes, 5 TABLEspoons) of sugar in 12 oz of skim milk. Drink within 1/2 hour of completing the ride, the sooner the better. Lots of high glycemic carbs, and a little protein. And *only* after a hard workout (way too much sugar if your body doesn't need it).

Originally posted by roadbuzz
Try this homebrew recovery beverage: 5 tablespoons (yes, 5 TABLEspoons) of sugar in 12 oz of skim milk. Drink within 1/2 hour of completing the ride, the sooner the better. Lots of high glycemic carbs, and a little protein. And *only* after a hard workout (way too much sugar if your body doesn't need it).

geez! i see why your handle is 'roadbuzz'. :) i'm getting a sugar high just contemplating it.

ok i'll try that next time, probably this weekend. hopefully i won't gain three pounds in the process.

it has occured to me that sometimes after exercising i get a little cranky (although, due to the joys of cycling vs running, that hasn't happened after a ride yet). i remember reading somewhere that this was one of the signs of temporary hypoglycemia. so perhaps a little sugar boost is in order.

The recipe actually comes from Coach Joe Friel. Here's an online article that mentions it... the other information might be useful, too.
Quick Recovery (http://www.ultrafit.com/newsletter/april02.html)

ok rippo. let's consider this. do you have any blood sugar issues. what are you feeling when this bonk occurs. i corrected my post ride sluggishness by drinking another water bottle of either plain water or watered down coke. i found my bonk has been due to sugar issues.
you've got a one hour glygemic window in which to replace and refresh yourself.
you don't say the nature of your exhaustion (muscle fatigue?) if so, then water will flush the lactate out of your muscles quicker than without. i hyperhydrate starting as soon as i get off the bike. rubbing out the lactate from your quads (largest muscle in your body....insert joke here) also helps. fig newtons are a great start.
in short, i would start recovery as soon as you get off the bike.

I think you should quit misusing the term " bonk."

Even though, that's what you feel like, bonking, is the loss of energy 'while still riding' to the point that you just about can't ride anymore.

You just get excited about the group rides and go hard and then feel crappy the next day.... most likely there are several reasons for that. You'll figure it out.

thanks roadbuzz for the link. i'll check it.

RiPHRaPH: i don't know if i have any blood sugar 'issues', i.e. actual medical problems associated with that. i don't think so. however from your response and others i think it's a blood sugar thing. my muscles are a little tired after the ride, but that isn't a problem and just tells me i was working hard. it's a complete lack of energy i'm experiencing, a little "out of it" mentally, maybe a little cranky. after a short ride (like right now) it's just a post-exercise buzz. but when i do 35-40 miles it just wastes me.

i'm going to look into this one hour 'window of opportunity' for getting my blood sugar back up. i seem to recall not eating right away after the ride as i was waiting for my wife to come home so we could go to lunch. i think i had an apple or something, but probably i should eat some more. i did eventually eat, but perhaps it was too late.

i don't think hydration is much of an issue with me. i've already had two liters of water and it's 10am where i am. so i drink plenty of water.

thanks!

my apologies for misusing the term "bonk". is there a better term to use for post-ride fatigue then? "plonk" perhaps? how about "zonked"? i think i like that one best.

Under the circumstances 'plonk' might have been appropriate since no real insight was offered by Mr Cranium for your question only critisism of your use of 'bonk'... In usenet sometimes such treatment would incite a 'plonking'.
http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/P/plonk.html
;)

Zonked is the best though. Ha.

But I do think hydration and enough glycogen in the beginning and glucose during and after are the main answers. Make sure your body has the fuel and REST it needs.

cAPS

Drink tons of water and right after a ride get a good post workout drink in, I use a mix of 45 grams whey protein, 100 grams dextrose 5 grams creatine, and 10 grams glutamine, I rarely feel fatigued after long rides I've done centuries and went out that night with friends later in the night and didn't even feel like I'd spent 6 hours on a bike earlier that day.

If you are looking for a post-ride food with carbs-to-protein at 4:1, then try plain old yogurt. It is much cheaper than Endurox R4 or JogMate and does about the same job.

Dan

edit to remove stray smiley

Bananas and water! Make sure you eat and drink right after you ride. The magic hour they call it. It's when your muscles are at their peak for recovery. After that there is a steep decline in your bodies ability quickly absorb the necessary sugars.

Also I know you said you didn't want gel suggestions, but.... I have started using Crank Gel - it's relatively new stuff (http://www.cranksports.com) and it's the best stuff out there. It's really thin - kind of like Hammer Gel - so it goes down easy. It tastes good (especially Cherry) and I find that it helps recovery as well. If I'm going to ride a while and I know that I'm going to hurt afterwards and suffer the next day, I will have a gel right before I dismount. Drink lots of water too. That's good until I clean my bike and get to the kitchen for bananas and more water. If you use my Crank referral number, we'll both get discounts too! (#322727)

Good luck and tell us if any of these ideas work!

thanks everyone! i might do this ride again tomorrow, so we'll see what happens. for now i'm going to stay away from the 'exotic' solutions (creatine, gel etc), as i don't happen to have any sitting around. but good ol' fashioned sugar, yogurt, water etc...those i have. i'll try and remember to report back on whether i bon...um, "plonked" or not. :)

just wanted to let everyone know...because i know you couldn't sleep this weekend wondering.

i didn't ride the group ride on saturday, so i decided to take the same course solo today (sunday). before i went, i had a bowl of cereal. brought 6 fig newtons along with me (more than usual), which i started eating earlier in the ride. as soon as i got home, i had another bowl of cereal, this time with added sugar on top. and then some strawberries. and about a half hour later, i had lunch. :)

i noticed a definite difference! i did finally get so tired around 5pm that i took a little nap, but for most of the afternoon i still felt pretty energized. looks like i was just wasted from not enough carb intake right after the ride.

i would have tried the other suggestions but...i didn't have enough milk even for the cereal, much less a glass to add 5 tbs of sugar to. and my wife keeps an eagle eye on her yogurts, and we're out of bananas. :) but the point of most people's replies was "eat right after you ride", and that's what i did.

Originally posted by Aerow
If you use my Crank referral number, we'll both get discounts too! (#322727)

Good luck and tell us if any of these ideas work!



Thanks, ...Aerow...I just ordered the 16 pack sampler from Crank Sports for 18.95, less 2 bucks for the referral discount and free shipping, so I got 16 for 16.95!!!

That's 1.05 each, which is only 4 cents more than I'm paying for Powerbar Gel, which tastes rotten in my opinion. I'm banking on your referral that this is good stuff.

Pointyhead

OK, I got my cranksports egels in on Friday afternoon. Sunday I took a pack with me while I went to tackle the L'ap d'Huez of Houston County. I tried the Cherry Bomb flavor. It's less thick than Power Gels, or Gu, but it still isn't the consistancy I am looking for. I'm thinking gels should be just that, gelatanous. More like a jello in the early stages of setting. But the flavor was good, with the cherry being more tart than other gels. I didn't notice any appreciable difference in its effect, but then I wan't near bonking either.

All in all, the flavor was good, and the price was decent, so, I'll stick with them until something better comes along.