Foo - WTF? No serial port?

I don't get it. Why is it that computers are designed to not be useful? I just found out that my brand new motherboard on order has no serial port. Why is the serial port being removed? Let alone the parallel port, I don't even want to think about the parallel port.

There are Serial-to-USB adapters, and the reverse, so it's not a big deal. Almost everything is USB today. Even my scanner, bought 10 years ago, is USB.

ANd yet they still make space for a CNR slot on the motherboard... :(

Cnr?

Edit: Why does the board software make the "nr" lower case?

Because nobody (without special purpose) uses serial (or parallel) ports anymore. Why do you want them to keep dinosaurs in standard computers? They are useful now, but only in very special purposes (usually for kits that are too crappy to upgrade communication to USB) and can easily be had in the form of PCI cards.

Serial ports are like so 1995..

Serial ports are like so 1995..

And then some....

I have some top of the line step motor drivers that interface via RS232 through serial. Also, it's easy to interface with the computer via RS232.
And hte parallel port, what a useful device. With 25 pins, each that can have it's own high - low output, it's very easy to enable circuits. The most direct example would be a relay.
Interfacing with usb is more complicated.

Serial ports haven't been around for years boss.

I have some top of the line step motor drivers that interface via RS232 through serial. Also, it's easy to interface with the computer via RS232.
And hte parallel port, what a useful device. With 25 pins, each that can have it's own high - low output, it's very easy to enable circuits. The most direct example would be a relay.
Interfacing with usb is more complicated.
I can understand the parallel if you are using it to drive circuits and not just communication, but are you using the RS232 for anything other than communication? No....these "top of the line" step motors are apparently just to cheap and/or lazy to update to usb communication interface.

I used use microcontroller kits that communicated over serial back in college. That was about 10 years ago, and even back then I was annoyed that they were still using serial ports.

True dat KT... I was just sayin that that was around the time when USB started to go big and serial ports started becoming passe..

Most people who need an RS-232 serial port don't need a lot of processing power. We're talking low-speed communications, data aquisition, amateur robotics and all that. And as has been mentioned, USB/Serial adapters abound. I've had good luck with Keyspan under pretty much any OS.

Can you name any recent hardware these days that actively use the serial port??? Those days are history. I used a lot of serial port based stuff, but with USB, Firewire and network ports are far faster and people just don't want to screw with them. I like firewire better than USB, but it not as available as the USB standard. Guess you'll need to get a PCI card with some serial ports. My system does not have a printer, serial or "A" drive connections. I have a boat load of USB2 and 2 firewire ports though.

Cnr?

Edit: Why does the board software make the "nr" lower case?

It's to keep people from making posts in ALL CAPS! I think if more than a certain percentage of your post is capital letters, it 'fixes' the case for you.

As far as no serial/parallel ports... yeah... while they're still useful to a VERY small number of people, USB and Firewire is MUCH more usable and flexible.

My laptop ditched the serial and parallel connectors, and instead has two different video out connectors (Analog and Digital) allowing me to use multiple monitors (In addition to the video out for a TV)

If you really need it, there are any number of different expansion options out there that you can use... including full USB2 'docking' stations, that will have parallel, serial, network, usb, etc and only need a single connection to the computer.

Can you name any recent hardware these days that actively use the serial port??? Those days are history. I used a lot of serial port based stuff, but with USB, Firewire and network ports are far faster and people just don't want to screw with them. I like firewire better than USB, but it not as available as the USB standard. Guess you'll need to get a PCI card with some serial ports. My system does not have a printer, serial or "A" drive connections. I have a boat load of USB2 and 2 firewire ports though.

3 1/2" floppy drives. Those are a laugh. They were never all that reliable, anyway. Took forever to get rid of the damn things, too. (Hell... they're not gone yet! You can get one that plugs into a USB port!)

yeah how will i use my spaceball now?

http://www.schrotthal.de/sgi/misc/spaceball.jpg

There is one very good reason why PC's should still have serial ports ... you cannot establish a serial connection to a router, firewall, switch without it. Now, if the router, firewall, and switch vendors would use USB for console connections, then that would be a different story. For now, you'll have to pay for a $50 USB to serial adapter.

There is one very good reason why PC's should still have serial ports ... you cannot establish a serial connection to a router, firewall, switch without it. Now, if the router, firewall, and switch vendors would use USB for console connections, then that would be a different story. For now, you'll have to pay for a $50 USB to serial adapter.

1) MOST computer users will never have a reason to attempt to establish a serial connection to a router, firewall, or switch. Home routers and such generally don't have such a connector built in.

2) People that need a serial adapter can get one... why add the cost to every single computer out there for something that's not needed by more than 99% of users?

3) My routers have been modified to add an external serial connector to them (a lot have the connections inside, just no external connector to link up to) ... my USB-serial cable cost me $5.

For now, you'll have to pay for a $50 USB to serial adapter.

Here. (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5859) $4.62 w/ free shipping

And here (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2537). $7.10, also free shipping

1) MOST computer users will never have a reason to attempt to establish a serial connection to a router, firewall, or switch. Home routers and such generally don't have such a connector built in.

I'm not most computer users. In fact, anyone in the networking industry will need their computer to establish a console connection.



2) People that need a serial adapter can get one... why add the cost to every single computer out there for something that's not needed by more than 99% of users?

Yea, at Fry's for $50. Radio Shack doesn't carry them.



3) My routers have been modified to add an external serial connector to them (a lot have the connections inside, just no external connector to link up to) ... my USB-serial cable cost me $5.
Really? All Cisco routers require an AUX/Console connection. You connect a Cisco rollover cable from an RJ-45 to DB-9.

Implementing support for serial ports is probably extremely inexpensive, I doubt it adds more than a few cents to the motherboard cost...

Heh, some Dells are coming thru with no PS/2 ports!

Heh, some Dells are coming thru with no PS/2 ports!

There have been computers for at least 7 years without PS/2 ports. I remember my boss freaking out when someone brought a computer in for repair and he'd told them on the phone that they didn't need to bring the keyboard or mouse... and then there's no PS/2 ports on the comp.

I've heard people whining about new computers not having ISA expansion ports as recently as 6 months ago. :eek:

Eventually you have to drop the old technologies... otherwise you'd still have cars with a crank on the front to start them! I remember the stink people made about computers not supporting tape drives anymore.

Implementing support for serial ports is probably extremely inexpensive, I doubt it adds more than a few cents to the motherboard cost...

While you're at it... add back in ISA slots, tape drives... CGA monitors... ZIP drives... 8" drives, SCSI connectors, AT-style keyboard ports, Oh, yeah... dual power supply connectors, so you can use it with both AT and ATX power supplies...

72 pin memory connectors... oh, 36 pin, too, while you're at it.

The first one I remember seeing was the Compaq iPaq (Which was the first item to bear that name, as I recall), a small desktop computer, which could be had in a "Legacy Free" version. No serial ports, no parallel ports, no PS/2 ports... Just a bunch of USB ports. This was about 1999 or 2000, I think.

I remember cards with several 30-pin SIMM slots that would plug into 72-pin slots. Made sense back then. RAM was foogin' expensive!

Also, I demand to know where I'm supposed to plug in this 80-column card, complete with 64KB of extra, individually-socketed RAM chips! I paid good money for all of this memory, and I intend to use it!

Yar! I demand that a law be passed that requires all computer makers to continue to support all previous standards! (People have actually TRIED. *shudders* )

I think the computer I was talking about might have been a Compaq... not sure. Someone brought it into the shop I was working in around 2001, and it wasn't brand new.


Bring back MFM Hard Drives!

Ya know, they still sell external modems!

Just sayin' ...

Ya know, they still sell external modems!

Just sayin' ...

Yep. And they come in USB versions, if you want one. ;)

I don't get it. Why is it that computers are designed to not be useful? I just found out that my brand new motherboard on order has no serial port. Why is the serial port being removed? Let alone the parallel port, I don't even want to think about the parallel port.

Get a USB serial dongle. You can get them for $7 and up. As a bonus, you can fit many, many serial ports through this method and powered hubs.

We ship this exact type of module out with servers we manufacture at work....it allows teh customer to use a modern USB-only laptop to talk to a serial connection only server.

edit: if you want voltage control, you may have to look for an application specific adaptor, but I'm willing to bet they exist....either that or if it's a desktop computer, use a PCI serial port card.

Speaking of legacy interfaces... ever use the I/O port on a TRS-80??? Now that was sweet. I had stacks and stacks of TRS-80 magazines, and every one of them had a do-it-yourself project you could build that would interface with the TRS-80... most of them using the I/O port.

Ya know, they still sell external modems!

Just sayin' ...

What can I say, somebody has to make a modem for VV?

There is one very good reason why PC's should still have serial ports ... you cannot establish a serial connection to a router, firewall, switch without it. Now, if the router, firewall, and switch vendors would use USB for console connections, then that would be a different story. For now, you'll have to pay for a $50 USB to serial adapter.
You second sentence is the key....the problem is not that computers need serial ports....routers/switches, etc... need to upgrade to USB or firewire. Requiring computers to keep serial ports to support legacy devices or "as a backup" is kinda like keeping a horse in the back yard for those 3 roads you car can't go. :rolleyes:



Implementing support for serial ports is probably extremely inexpensive, I doubt it adds more than a few cents to the motherboard cost...
Think about it.....it's not about money. Why would a vendor want to have th extra real estate on motherboard and complexity (routing signals on mother board, supporting device in BIOS, etc...) for something that almost NOBODY uses anymore and is available dirt cheap in an after market card. From a computer vendor's POV, it's a no-brainer.

You second sentence is the key....the problem is not that computers need serial ports....routers/switches, etc... need to upgrade to USB or firewire. Requiring computers to keep serial ports to support legacy devices or "as a backup" is kinda like keeping a horse in the back yard for those 3 roads you car can't go. :rolleyes:



Think about it.....it's not about money. Why would a vendor want to have th extra real estate on motherboard and complexity (routing signals on mother board, supporting device in BIOS, etc...) for something that almost NOBODY uses anymore and is available dirt cheap in an after market card. From a computer vendor's POV, it's a no-brainer.

I agree completely. Serial ports, while usefule for those of us in the industry, are completely useless for the average used. Its now a "tool" and not something needed. Tools cost more :D

It just means that we have to educate sales when going out to customer sites, to make sure they invest in a USB to Serial adapter. They won't be able to console into those core routers for any sales related deals.

Serial ports are good if you are trying to use old PIC boards for specialized purposes (like robots).

Then again, most cheap robots have newer boards that support USB now, so I, for one, am gald that RS232 is dying. Served its purpose well, though.

Serial ports are good if you are trying to use old PIC boards for specialized purposes (like robots).

Then again, most cheap robots have newer boards that support USB now, so I, for one, am gald that RS232 is dying. Served its purpose well, though.

That was exactly my point earlier. Good companies for the microcontroller/microprocessor kits should have USB versions by now. RS232 has effectively been dead for like 10 (or close to it) years now.

I agree....serial served a great purpose back in the day.....but let it R.I.P.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r162/jsharr/capn.jpg
Here is your contact for registering a complaint. If anyone knows about cereal ports, it should be him.

Personally, I like RS232 for its simplicity. However, a USB to serial adapter works fine for my needs, especially if I need to get console access to a router or a server.

I know that in the latest Windows Logo guidelines, parallel printer ports are banned, however not sure on serial. If I were to guess, the main reason PCs stop sporting serial ports is because few people use them.

Can you name any recent hardware these days that actively use the serial port??? Those days are history. I used a lot of serial port based stuff, but with USB, Firewire and network ports are far faster and people just don't want to screw with them. I like firewire better than USB, but it not as available as the USB standard. Guess you'll need to get a PCI card with some serial ports. My system does not have a printer, serial or "A" drive connections. I have a boat load of USB2 and 2 firewire ports though.

Most point of sale computers still use serial ports. The IBM and NCR computers still have four serial COM ports on the back. Most servers still have a serial port. I have found serial to be more reliable than USB, even though it is slower. It is also a simpler interface (easier to troubleshoot, for sure). I prefer it to USB if speed is not an issue.