Kestrelman
10-15-07, 07:53 AM
Don't see this posted yet - http://wral.com/news/state/story/1926754/.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Charity Events - Family Sues MS Society After Teen's Death
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bicycle
10-21-07, 10:23 PM
That's really sad about the girl...
...about the lawsuit, isn't there a wavier? I signed one for the MS ride in Philadelphia [cherry hill]
There aren't many details in the article
...about the lawsuit, isn't there a wavier? I signed one for the MS ride in Philadelphia [cherry hill]
There aren't many details in the article
markjenn
10-21-07, 11:32 PM
...about the lawsuit, isn't there a wavier? I signed one for the MS ride in Philadelphia [cherry hill]
Waivers are just the most basic line of defense against lawsuits - they make the participant aware that the activity is potentially dangerous but little else. A waiver will stop a lawsuit for "I didn't know one could get killed riding a bicycle in this event" but won't protect against organizers being negligent in providing safety measures that were advertised to participants. Even if the safety measures were not advertised to partcipants, they may be going after the organizers on the grounds that the safety measures were "reasonble and customary".
Whatever happens, the lawyers will get their money.
- Mark
Waivers are just the most basic line of defense against lawsuits - they make the participant aware that the activity is potentially dangerous but little else. A waiver will stop a lawsuit for "I didn't know one could get killed riding a bicycle in this event" but won't protect against organizers being negligent in providing safety measures that were advertised to participants. Even if the safety measures were not advertised to partcipants, they may be going after the organizers on the grounds that the safety measures were "reasonble and customary".
Whatever happens, the lawyers will get their money.
- Mark
Ty.S
10-21-07, 11:46 PM
Very unfortunate for everybody involved, MS Society, the family of the girl. I'm sure her brother didn't escape unharmed either. Although, launching a lawsuit against a charity organization somehow strikes me as wrong. If they have to pay out.. the family of the girl is denying that money to people who are still alive and suffering with MS.
I don't know, flame me if you want, but that doesn't seem like the best way to have your family name remembered. I'm sure it was an emotional decision, and the slimy lawyer pounced at the right time to help drive them towards this decision, but you never know.
I don't know, flame me if you want, but that doesn't seem like the best way to have your family name remembered. I'm sure it was an emotional decision, and the slimy lawyer pounced at the right time to help drive them towards this decision, but you never know.
Ian Freeman
10-22-07, 10:30 AM
I agree with Ty.S. While it is entirely possible that the girl's death could have been avoided by better route planning on the part of the MS society, it does seem to be in poor taste to sue a non-profit organization that exists to fight disease.
It is a very delicate situation of course, and I guess you can't really blame the family for the legal actions they're taking. I certainly don't. It's a big grey area, but I don't enjoy the thought of money for MS research being used as such. I doubt the girl, if she were here now, would want money taken from the pockets of the MS society.
It is a very delicate situation of course, and I guess you can't really blame the family for the legal actions they're taking. I certainly don't. It's a big grey area, but I don't enjoy the thought of money for MS research being used as such. I doubt the girl, if she were here now, would want money taken from the pockets of the MS society.
LynnH
10-22-07, 03:00 PM
I love riding in these supported rides, and if it is for a charity event like MS, that makes it even better. But I really don't believe my chances of being killed by a vehicle, is much different whether I am in a supported ride or a solo ride. The chances are there either way. I am very sorry for the girl, and her family, but hopefully she was doing what she loved doing. It seems very wrong to sue the organization!
bmclaughlin807
10-22-07, 03:04 PM
I've heard conflicting reports from local riders on this...
One said that there was no way that they should have been routing the ride along that road, and that there had been many complaints during prior years to the group responsible and requests to change the route.
Another local rider said that that road was lightly traveled, fairly wide, and very low traffic and there's no way a driver should have been close enough to strike a rider.
I dunno... all the research I read didn't have enough information to really tell who was at fault. I guess that's what the courts are for.
And yes... there are (or were) several threads about this.
One said that there was no way that they should have been routing the ride along that road, and that there had been many complaints during prior years to the group responsible and requests to change the route.
Another local rider said that that road was lightly traveled, fairly wide, and very low traffic and there's no way a driver should have been close enough to strike a rider.
I dunno... all the research I read didn't have enough information to really tell who was at fault. I guess that's what the courts are for.
And yes... there are (or were) several threads about this.
stellagirl
11-07-07, 08:47 AM
I live and ride near where this happened and the problem is not so much the roads, like anywhere some are wide and have good shoulders some do not, but is really the drivers who have zero respect for cyclists. I can't tell you how many times I've been passed with what felt like 6 inches of clearance, people don't move over and don't slow down, I've got scars from going down after being passed so close that I ran off the road on one particulary bad road.
Ty.S
11-07-07, 01:37 PM
Was there any news on the other rider? Surely he'll have an opinion on what happened since it was a tandem bike.
Maybe its just my area, but here in the north bay of ca. riders and cyclist mix it up pretty often, but for the most part drivers are cyclist aware. There is always the *insert expletive* driver who is trying to hurt you, i.e. weaving at you.. hitting you with long mirror.. breaking infront of you. It could be that this girl had a run in with one of those types.. and if thats the case why not direct the attention of the lawsuit at him?
Maybe its just my area, but here in the north bay of ca. riders and cyclist mix it up pretty often, but for the most part drivers are cyclist aware. There is always the *insert expletive* driver who is trying to hurt you, i.e. weaving at you.. hitting you with long mirror.. breaking infront of you. It could be that this girl had a run in with one of those types.. and if thats the case why not direct the attention of the lawsuit at him?
Gee3
11-07-07, 03:56 PM
The link doesn't seem to work anymore so I googled it and read the story. The paper said that the tandem was pacelining and got too close to the wheel in front if them and touched wheels. This caused the bike to go down and subsequently led to the death of the girl when she fell as the truck and trailer passed.
So who do you blame in this case? I've been on a few charity rides including two MS rides and with the route being so long there are stretches of road that just can't be watched by police, hwy patrol, organizers, etc. As in any bike ride on streets you have to always be careful, even if the ride is supported.
So it seems to me that it was an error by the cyclists because they hit the back tire of the bike in front of them. I did a similar thing on my first century last year but saved myself from going down. I based it on luck. Unfortunately the girl was not so lucky and lost her life.
And with the deep pockets of the MS Society I think they'll prevail due to rider error, not paying attention to the bike infront of them.
As a cyclist there is always an inherent danger in riding on the streets. And we have to accept that. No one was driving erratically as well. Was the driver close? According to what I read about the state law there isn't any rule in terms of actual distance one has to be from a cyclist other than keeping a safe distance away.
Unfortunately a mistake was made by either the borther or both and they went down. It's sad it happened but it'll be hard to blame the MS Society for operator error.
Just my $0.02...
So who do you blame in this case? I've been on a few charity rides including two MS rides and with the route being so long there are stretches of road that just can't be watched by police, hwy patrol, organizers, etc. As in any bike ride on streets you have to always be careful, even if the ride is supported.
So it seems to me that it was an error by the cyclists because they hit the back tire of the bike in front of them. I did a similar thing on my first century last year but saved myself from going down. I based it on luck. Unfortunately the girl was not so lucky and lost her life.
And with the deep pockets of the MS Society I think they'll prevail due to rider error, not paying attention to the bike infront of them.
As a cyclist there is always an inherent danger in riding on the streets. And we have to accept that. No one was driving erratically as well. Was the driver close? According to what I read about the state law there isn't any rule in terms of actual distance one has to be from a cyclist other than keeping a safe distance away.
Unfortunately a mistake was made by either the borther or both and they went down. It's sad it happened but it'll be hard to blame the MS Society for operator error.
Just my $0.02...
bmclaughlin807
11-07-07, 06:11 PM
The link doesn't seem to work anymore so I googled it and read the story. The paper said that the tandem was pacelining and got too close to the wheel in front if them and touched wheels. This caused the bike to go down and subsequently led to the death of the girl when she fell as the truck and trailer passed.
So who do you blame in this case? I've been on a few charity rides including two MS rides and with the route being so long there are stretches of road that just can't be watched by police, hwy patrol, organizers, etc. As in any bike ride on streets you have to always be careful, even if the ride is supported.
So it seems to me that it was an error by the cyclists because they hit the back tire of the bike in front of them. I did a similar thing on my first century last year but saved myself from going down. I based it on luck. Unfortunately the girl was not so lucky and lost her life.
And with the deep pockets of the MS Society I think they'll prevail due to rider error, not paying attention to the bike infront of them.
As a cyclist there is always an inherent danger in riding on the streets. And we have to accept that. No one was driving erratically as well. Was the driver close? According to what I read about the state law there isn't any rule in terms of actual distance one has to be from a cyclist other than keeping a safe distance away.
Unfortunately a mistake was made by either the borther or both and they went down. It's sad it happened but it'll be hard to blame the MS Society for operator error.
Just my $0.02...
The paper says a lot of things. Kind of like the local paper putting in an article about a pedestrian hit and run that because the pedestrian wasn't in a marked crosswalk the driver wouldn't have faced charges. Never mind that pedestrians have the right of way in unmarked crosswalks as well... ie: wherever two road intersect there IS a crosswalk area where the pedestrians are allowed/supposed to cross, and the pedestrian has the right of way in that area.
In this particular case, nobody knows for sure what happened. Someone put forward a theory that they touched wheels with the rider ahead of them. Another theory was that the close pass by the truck caused them to either lose control and fall or touch wheels with the bike in front of them, thereby causing them to fall. Ever been passed so close by a vehicle that you were buffeted by the wind off of them? I have... it's not fun. :(
Where the MS society MAY have some fault is in not providing a safer route, or more police presence to ensure safe driving practices by motorists. Several people from the area that have participated in that ride in the past posted that they personally tried to get the organizers to move the route off of that road, to no avail. They have since moved the route... too bad someone had to die to get them to change it. (Of course, they say that the death had nothing to do with them FINALLY changing the route.)
So who do you blame in this case? I've been on a few charity rides including two MS rides and with the route being so long there are stretches of road that just can't be watched by police, hwy patrol, organizers, etc. As in any bike ride on streets you have to always be careful, even if the ride is supported.
So it seems to me that it was an error by the cyclists because they hit the back tire of the bike in front of them. I did a similar thing on my first century last year but saved myself from going down. I based it on luck. Unfortunately the girl was not so lucky and lost her life.
And with the deep pockets of the MS Society I think they'll prevail due to rider error, not paying attention to the bike infront of them.
As a cyclist there is always an inherent danger in riding on the streets. And we have to accept that. No one was driving erratically as well. Was the driver close? According to what I read about the state law there isn't any rule in terms of actual distance one has to be from a cyclist other than keeping a safe distance away.
Unfortunately a mistake was made by either the borther or both and they went down. It's sad it happened but it'll be hard to blame the MS Society for operator error.
Just my $0.02...
The paper says a lot of things. Kind of like the local paper putting in an article about a pedestrian hit and run that because the pedestrian wasn't in a marked crosswalk the driver wouldn't have faced charges. Never mind that pedestrians have the right of way in unmarked crosswalks as well... ie: wherever two road intersect there IS a crosswalk area where the pedestrians are allowed/supposed to cross, and the pedestrian has the right of way in that area.
In this particular case, nobody knows for sure what happened. Someone put forward a theory that they touched wheels with the rider ahead of them. Another theory was that the close pass by the truck caused them to either lose control and fall or touch wheels with the bike in front of them, thereby causing them to fall. Ever been passed so close by a vehicle that you were buffeted by the wind off of them? I have... it's not fun. :(
Where the MS society MAY have some fault is in not providing a safer route, or more police presence to ensure safe driving practices by motorists. Several people from the area that have participated in that ride in the past posted that they personally tried to get the organizers to move the route off of that road, to no avail. They have since moved the route... too bad someone had to die to get them to change it. (Of course, they say that the death had nothing to do with them FINALLY changing the route.)
Dchiefransom
11-12-07, 09:23 AM
The MS Society most likely won't lose any money, their insurance will have to pay out, though.
The tandem crossing wheels with the bike in front of it is just conjecture, since in other articles linked before pointed out that no witnesses were in a position to actually see that. What no articles about this have stated is whether the trailer was wider than the truck pulling it. In another death discussed in a thread on this site before, a truck pulling a trailer around a curved offramp missed a cyclist, but the trailer tracking further right hit and killed the cyclist.
The tandem crossing wheels with the bike in front of it is just conjecture, since in other articles linked before pointed out that no witnesses were in a position to actually see that. What no articles about this have stated is whether the trailer was wider than the truck pulling it. In another death discussed in a thread on this site before, a truck pulling a trailer around a curved offramp missed a cyclist, but the trailer tracking further right hit and killed the cyclist.