I hate drunk drivers. The question is how to deter more people from driving when they're intoxicated.

You know what worked for me? Back in my late 20s, my best friend gave me an ultimatum. I had to hand her my keys BEFORE I started drinking. It broke me of the habit of thinking I was okay to drive and instead allowed others to evaluate me. And if SHE drank with me (which was usually the case), we both left our keys and cabbed it (yeah, it did cost, but it was worth it). Her friendship meant more to me than demanding that I could make that decision on my own. Now, if I get drunk, it's at home alone (a whole other thread topic on that therapy forum, for sure!), but if I drink out, I stay at friends' places or cab it home. I'd rather end up in a compromising position and regret THAT in the morning, than kill someone, myself or end up in jail.

What a bunch of fatuous garbage. There are good cyclists, bad cyclists, and cyclists in between, but anybody who rides a bicycle is a cyclist.

EDIT: ...and I am also missing the part where this is in any way apropos of the subject.

So in the same logic,
Is anyone who drinks a Drunk??

So in the same logic,
Is anyone who drinks a Drunk??

Oh, come on Drew! :rolleyes: By nature of that argument, we could go on forever:

1. So is anyone who has allergies an asthmatic?
2. So is anyone who occassionally overeats a binge-eater?
3. So is anyone who takes advil on a regular basis a druggie?
4. So is anyone who puts on running shoes a runner?
5. So is anyone who watches porn a sex addict?
6. So is...

...do I need to continue?

A cyclist is someone who rides a bike! No way around it, and I hope this doesn't become an argument about that.

Oh, come on Drew! :rolleyes: By nature of that argument, we could go on forever:

1. So is anyone who has allergies an asthmatic?
2. So is anyone who occassionally overeats a binge-eater?
3. So is anyone who takes advil on a regular basis a druggie?
4. So is anyone who puts on running shoes a runner?
5. So is anyone who watches porn a sex addict?
6. So is...

...do I need to continue?

Exactly...
can't generalize and we....

Exactly...
can't generalize and we....

Yeah, but Drew (and I mean this respectfully to you, btw), it is a reality that "cyclist" is a term used for anyone who rides a bike. If we start splitting hairs, technically someone could argue that NONE of us on here are cyclists because we don't ride in the TDF. Do you believe that?

Yeah, but Drew (and I mean this respectfully to you, btw), it is a reality that "cyclist" is a term used for anyone who rides a bike. If we start splitting hairs, technically someone could argue that NONE of us on here are cyclists because we don't ride in the TDF. Do you believe that?

I have a couple friends that go riding with me, 2-3 times a year.
and unless I'm with them, they don't ride, even though they spent a couple grand on the
bike.
Are they a cyclist???
I don't think so.
Would we call them a "cyclist " while they were riding, ya.
Would I introduce them as "cyclists". No.

I consider just about EVERYONE on this board a Cyclist. I think so.

Am I one...
I don't know, it's my hobby not my life....
( well, one that take up a LOT of my time..:D)

You and your friends are cyclists every time you mount a bike. :)

[ and your friends are cyclists every time you mount a bike. :)[/QUOTE]

Dave Moulton just wrote about "cyclist" vs POB (person on a bike): Interesting point of view, a good read: http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/

[ and your friends are cyclists every time you mount a bike. :)

Dave Moulton just wrote about "cyclist" vs POB (person on a bike): Interesting point of view, a good read: http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/[/QUOTE]

Um...Eric...that's already been posted. ;)

So in the same logic,
Is anyone who drinks a Drunk??

No. Anybody who drinks is a drinker. But thanks for playing.

To keep people from drinking and driving, we'll need much harsher penalties. It won't that work well, but it should keep the repeat drunk driving incidents down. Drinking alcohol inhibits judgment, so drinking while driving is the natural result. The deterrent needs to be enough to force its way through the alcohol haze. If a 30 day sentence (in addition to fines, fees, restricted license etc) was a mandatory result of being busted for a first offense, more people would plan in advance to avoid that consequence.

As for the hair splitting 'cyclist' argument.

Anyone who rides a bike is a person on a bike. A cyclist is different. A cyclist knows the rules involved with riding a bicycle (a bad cyclist may ignore those rules), gets some level of enjoyment from cycling, rides with some level of regularity, and would say that a bicycle is a part of their life.

My sister may ride a bike once every couple of years. She knows how to ride a bike, she's not a cyclist. When she's on a bike, she's a person on a bike.

Anyone who rides a bike is a person on a bike. A cyclist is different. A cyclist knows the rules involved with riding a bicycle (a bad cyclist may ignore those rules), gets some level of enjoyment from cycling, rides with some level of regularity, and would say that a bicycle is a part of their life.

It's fun to make stuff up, isn't it?

Webster's Dictionary:

cyclist

cy·clist
Pronunciation: \ˈsī-k(ə-)ləst\
Function: noun
Date: 1882
Definition: one who rides a cycle

How many people at this forum has ever enrolled in and/or taken a "Cycling Proficiency Test" or Training classes and passed/completed level 3 or higher (busy roads with real traffic and advanced scenarios)?

How many at this forum look down or make fun of people riding this kind of bike?
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6734/utilitybicycleza4.jpg

Classifying people that ride whatever bikes for a variety of reasons has always been a sore subject for me. There are many disciplines that riders may gravitate to or prefer, but it is still is a bicycle. Either we are one community or we are not...there aren't many choices. Or contact Webster's and change the definition of "cyclist" and that will shut people like me up.

Anyone who rides a bike is a person on a bike. A cyclist is different. A cyclist knows the rules involved with riding a bicycle (a bad cyclist may ignore those rules), gets some level of enjoyment from cycling, rides with some level of regularity, and would say that a bicycle is a part of their life.

My sister may ride a bike once every couple of years. She knows how to ride a bike, she's not a cyclist. When she's on a bike, she's a person on a bike.

That is your opinion only. The definition of a cyclist is clearly stated in the dictionary that has been around longer than you and I have been alive. If your sister was hit by a car while she was a "person on a bike," the media, law enforcement officials and likely witnesses to the accident would categorize her, rightly so, as a cyclist. A person on a bike is a cyclist.

And yes, there are good and bad cyclists. There are those who ride more than others, there are those who do not follow laws in both the spandex crowd, mountain bike group, Midnight Ridazz group, commuter group, etc., but no matter how you dice it, anyone on a bike at any time is a cyclist.

Or, as I stated earlier, if we are going to split hairs, NONE of us on here are cyclists as none of us have ridden the Tour de France, Ron. We're all a bunch of people on bikes who think we're cyclists.

I'm off to change my title...:p

OK, then maybe we shouldn't call the drunk who mowed down the "cyclist" a "motorist" either. After all, a "real" motorist would never drive drunk. So now we have the rather ridiculous situation of a "non-motorist" motorist killing a "non-cyclist" cyclist.

Come on.

One of the purposes of drivers education is to convince the young driver that they are driving a 2 ton weapon, not a fluffy cloud. One of the purposes of cyclist advocacy and education is similar - when you are on a bicycle, you are a cyclist, like it or not. And that means that you are on the road with all those motorists driving their weapons, with all their varying degrees of skill.

I don't think that everybody who drinks is a drunk. However, everybody who drives after drinking is impaired.

To keep people from drinking and driving, we'll need much harsher penalties. It won't that work well, but it should keep the repeat drunk driving incidents down. Drinking alcohol inhibits judgment, so drinking while driving is the natural result. The deterrent needs to be enough to force its way through the alcohol haze. If a 30 day sentence (in addition to fines, fees, restricted license etc) was a mandatory result of being busted for a first offense, more people would plan in advance to avoid that consequence.

Agreed, but I've read studies that show stiffer penalties not making a difference. You said it yourself, drinking impairs judgement so they won't care about the consequences. I just wish they would actually follow through on revoking licenses. I don't want to hear sob stories about "I can't get to work without a car". My response is "the guy you killed while driving drunk can't get to work at all". We live in a country full of excuses, and I for one sick of hearing them.

I hate drunk drivers too. But I personally believe that cell phones and text messaging and the inattentiveness that it causes, is much more of a danger to us cyclists.

^ True, but those activities aren't illegal (yet). Keep lobbying to get that passed, though.

^ True, but those activities aren't illegal (yet). Keep lobbying to get that passed, though.

Cell phones while driving becomes illegal next year I think...

Cell phones while driving becomes illegal next year I think...

Hands free only in July....

Hands free only in July....

I've been hearing that every few years since 1998 - will believe it when I see it.

I've been hearing that every few years since 1998 - will believe it when I see it.

Well the govenator signed it last year!

I also keep hearing that every year. I thought it was July of this year then someone told me no next year. Is the law interpreted to mean texting is part of using a cell phone without a hands free set?

I also keep hearing that every year. I thought it was July of this year then someone told me no next year. Is the law interpreted to mean texting is part of using a cell phone without a hands free set?

I have no idea about texting...but I dont think thats mentioned...
I was shocked that they made it wait 18months...what, too many people couldnt figure out how to use hands free?? jeez...

I know some people who still refuse to try it. We call their cell phones leashes.

Or, as I stated earlier, if we are going to split hairs, NONE of us on here are cyclists as none of us have ridden the Tour de France, Ron. We're all a bunch of people on bikes who think we're cyclists.



Tour de France???? Think the majority of the people at this forum would look like this after a few days on the tour....
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1503/procyclistassnm9.jpg

lol....j/k :o:lol::roflmao:;)

I had a teammate who looked like that after accidentally clipping out of his pedals on a velodrome. He covered his junk but was ok with the exposure when he saw the cute EMT (studying to be a masseuse) who was going to take care of him.

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Party_Girl/20070525/293.hilton.paris2.052507.jpg

Cyclist or no?

:p

No.

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Party_Girl/20070525/293.hilton.paris2.052507.jpg

Cyclist or no?

:p

:rolleyes: She is NOT ON THE BIKE, RON! If she is ON it, yes. Cyclist. Sh*tty one, but a cyclist. :D

Tour de France???? Think the majority of the people at this forum would look like this after a few days on the tour....
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1503/procyclistassnm9.jpg


Hey, now, I don't think that looks all that bad, myself. ;):p:D

I also keep hearing that every year. I thought it was July of this year then someone told me no next year. Is the law interpreted to mean texting is part of using a cell phone without a hands free set?

Like I said - I'll believe it when I see it. The first time I heard it (in '98) it was also "the governor just signed it." It just never seemed to take effect.

Let's bring this thread together. A person on a bike talking on a cell phone. Is she a cyclist or a conversationalist?

http://i.treehugger.com/files/th_images/chloe_sevigny300x400.jpg

edit. That is a pretty sweet bike.

Is there anyone who hasn't seen this? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4

Is there anyone who hasn't seen this? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4

I hadn't. :roflmao::roflmao:

Let's bring this thread together. A person on a bike talking on a cell phone. Is she a cyclist or a conversationalist?

http://i.treehugger.com/files/th_images/chloe_sevigny300x400.jpg

Multitasker

Tuesday afternoon while driving back to Anaheim from picking up my battered SLT in Whittier I chose to use sidestreets in lieu of the perenially jammed 5. On Lambert about a mile from Beach, I spotted a latino male dressed in his blue collar work uniform (including a backwards work cap) on a decent 70sish lightweight skinny-tire on the street, getting it. He was bombing the downhills and charging the ups with a fervor that probably would have put many here to shame (doesn't apply to bcipam because she obviously has no shame) and in the dust. He kept up with traffic all of the way to Idaho, where he turned and jetted towards Coyote Hills. Yeah, he wasn't a "cyclist".

Why would you say that guy isn't a cyclist? He sounds like a cyclist to me. Is it because he's latino? You must be racist.

i now call a conclusion to this useless semantical back and forth!

i now call a conclusion to this useless semantical back and forth!

You are either a cold, callous creep, or one of the most clueless bozos on the planet. Which is it?

:p

i now call a conclusion to this useless semantical back and forth!

You must be racist.

;)

I know I am not fast enough to be a racist, more of a tourist.

You are either a cold, callous creep, or one of the most clueless bozos on the planet. Which is it?



People who I know and care about and who know and care about me know I am none of those. I know I am a concerned good person, who puts in many hours doing charitable and volunteer work and I don't have to go about defending myself. I have never intentionally attacked anyone here or anywhere and especially not on a public Board. When someone states they are offended, I am quick to apologize and withdraw my statements if possible. In this case I could not as it had already been quoted.

I did not write the article. I guess it was missed the article comes from Dave's Moulton's blog which by the way is read by many people. I had just read his story and then come to the BF site and for some reason thought to post it. I admit that in hindsight it was inappropriate to post the article on the same thread about a man who had been killed. But as we know threads tend to morph and get off topic and is it more inappropriate for me to have posted the article here or for others to get totally off topic with flirting and sexual innuendo on a thread about a dead man. BTW, if somehow you believe this man's life matters not to me, you are so wrong. Every single life is precious and no matter who or what or how he died, it is a tragedy. And the fact he was killed by a drunk driver makes it all the worse. I have for many years been an advocate against driving while drunk. I mean it when I say I will come get anyone if they need a ride.

I'm assuming you don't know me at all so it's unclear why you feel the need to attack. If you do know me and I have offended you, I apologize for any bad behavior. It is never my intent to be rude or crude. And I am not offended by your comments. I have learned to turn the other cheek. There are other, more friendlier, less exclusive, more welcoming places to go. If you only want a few cats in your litter box I understand. I will not come where not welcomed.

But one last word and I'll leave you to what I assume will become some sort of trolling rant... everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are entitled to yours and I to mine. I don't always agree with what is said on this forum and I either choose to ignore the thread or ignore the post. I would not go out of my way to be mean or nasty. There is just no point to name calling and rudeness.

I Pray to God you someday understand what I am trying to say... we all (including me) need to think more before opening our mouths. Peace out!

this thread is so full of fail.

this thread is so full of fail.

I could not agree more!

Here is the follow up article that details that Jose was on the sidewalk, coming home from work at 2AM...
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bicyclist16oct16,1,4410599.story?track=rss

Here is some video footage (http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_288091900.html) as well.

That woman jacked her car up in that crash and they still have not determined how fast she was going.

Was he a "Cyclist" or just a "Person on Bike"? I think that he was both because they are the exact same thing.
Does the article Pam posted have relevance to the thread? Sure it does, because she thought it did.

Let's bring down the intensity here folks.

Sorry, ref!

;)

No worries ;)

I'm tired and it's time for bed. Perhaps one of the SoCal moderators will open this back up in the morning, but this thread needs to rest, too.