For the first time in 20 years in Law Enforcement I wrote a ticket to a bicyclist. I feel kinda dirty and all, but he was involved in an accident and in my estimation was enough at fault to qualify. He was riding W/B on the E/B shoulder of Rt 64 in front of the car dealerships in St. Charles. A mechanic taking a car out for a test drive pulls up, looks left (only) sees it's clear and goes. Bike and car collide.
Car driver freely admits to fault as does bicyclist, so I write them both a ticket. Car driver for failure to yield when exiting private drive, and Mr. Bicyclist for riding on the wrong side. Not like he was a roadie riding a Pinarello or Colnago or some other sexy Itallian bike. He was riding an "Exeed, Roadmaster" that has seen better days, even before this fender bender. I think it was some Huffy offshoot or similar. He's one of our local commuters due to no license after having it revoked 12 years ago. guy walked away with a limp but no other serious injuries.
John Wilke
10-16-07, 05:42 AM
Boy, that reinforces a couple good habits:
- Look both ways.
- Don't assume anything. (e.g. that the driver will see you)
At least the driver wasn't crossing a set of railroad tracks.
Why is it that:
- when many drivers start up after a red light, the first place they look is in the rear view mirror.
- when crossing a street they first look right, then left. Is this: "Can I make it? Ok, is it safe?" rather than than: "Is it safe? Can I make it?"
?
My other question: Would you give a cyclist a ticket for speeding? http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/forum/images/smiles/pissed.gif
stevesurf
10-16-07, 06:04 AM
Yeah not to worry, that's a ticket. We have LE in NYC that ticket people riding on sidewalks just to stay off the streets and stay alive.
Psimet2001
10-16-07, 08:26 AM
Aww...Can't blame you Kimbercop, but you're right. It makes you seem "dirty". ;)
I'd never ride on the other side of the road unless something forced me to. Gives me shivers everytime I see someone do it.
DougG
10-16-07, 09:48 AM
Reminds me of the time(s) I was almost killed as a tourist in England, stepping off the curb while only looking to the left for oncoming traffic. Looking left first, then right, is a hard habit to break!
CastIron
10-16-07, 01:21 PM
I've no sympathy for the parties cited. I am, however, sympathetic to your plight.
Psimet2001
10-16-07, 02:04 PM
Reminds me of the time(s) I was almost killed as a tourist in England, stepping off the curb while only looking to the left for oncoming traffic. Looking left first, then right, is a hard habit to break!
What a bunch of Morans! Tell them to "Get a brain!"
cyclpsycho
10-16-07, 04:24 PM
I'd never ride on the other side of the road unless something forced me to. Gives me shivers everytime I see someone do it.
+1 :eek:
CyLowe97
10-16-07, 05:38 PM
You should have used the taser!
zZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZ!!!
That'll learn ya to pilot yer velocipede on the wrong side o' tha thoroughfare!
tiztim
10-17-07, 12:02 AM
It is my ambition and dream to get a speeding ticket. Can you arrange that?
John Wilke
10-17-07, 03:43 AM
It is my ambition and dream to get a speeding ticket. Can you arrange that?
Me too, that's why I brought it up. :D
twobikes
10-17-07, 07:07 AM
I was riding southbound on Hwy 99 in Vancouver, Washington. There is a hill that goes up from 117th. If I had stayed on the right side of the road, the bike lane would have gone down to about 4" wide at a guard rail. There was heavy traffic from behind. But, at 117th I crossed over to the left side of the road on foot and with the traffic light. Then I rode southbound against the traffic up the hill in a bike lane wide enough to park a car. Was I wrong?
X-LinkedRider
10-17-07, 07:21 AM
I will ride on the "wrong" side occasionally but always when the shoulder on that side is FAR wider than the one on the correct side. Obviously it's a situational thing though. We don't all have perfect streets for riding.
CyLowe97
10-17-07, 07:28 AM
I was riding southbound on Hwy 99 in Vancouver, Washington. There is a hill that goes up from 117th. If I had stayed on the right side of the road, the bike lane would have gone down to about 4" wide at a guard rail. There was heavy traffic from behind. But, at 117th I crossed over to the left side of the road on foot and with the traffic light. Then I rode southbound against the traffic up the hill in a bike lane wide enough to park a car. Was I wrong?
I triple dog dare you to post that same post here (http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8).
Elkhound
10-17-07, 03:10 PM
Bicycles are vehicles and are bound by the same rules of the road as all other vehicles.
It is also a well-established principle that bicyclists are safest when they behave in a predictable manner in accordance with normal vehicular behavior. That includes riding with traffic. Of course the driver didn't look the other way. One does not expect traffic coming from the wrong way.
I hope the cyclist learned his lesson.
stumpsbmwm3
11-22-07, 07:06 AM
Looking through the forum and saw that you desire a citation. Well, here is how one went.
We have some very bored suburban police departments around here. I ride occassionally in one town called Shaker Heights. I was flying along a street that has an elementary school on it which leads to a nature park that is kinda fun to ride around. I was doing 27 or so, as it is slightly hilly.
As I rounded the bend near the school I pushed on, no kids outside, as it was near 10:00. As the bend ended I saw a flashing light in my mirror and looked back. I saw the cop car and moved over thinking it was heading somewhere fast and get out the way. As I pulled over--so did it. I am thinking what is up. She gets out the car and says you were speeding in a school zone. Gives me a ticket, and tells me I can send in the amount or appear. I started to argue the point: on a bicyle, give me a break, but knew Shaker is famous for confiscating bikes and making things into a circus.
When I got to court the judge goes through the usual stuff about children safety and speeding in the area is against them....I plead not guilty and say, "Your honor, I was not on a motorcycle or in a car, I was on a bicycle!" At first he does not react but looks at the ticket. I say there is no license plate on the ticket.
He then asks the cop is this true, and she replies yes. Everyone in the court sighs. He looks crossed and says I will let this go this time, but cycling is also using the roads and as such are required to follow the same rules as motorists. He then calls the cop over to the bench and says something to her that makes her turn red. Dismisses me, and I leave (won't be riding up there any time soon).
Although I did not have to pay the ticket, I still had to take a day off from work, and the waste of time going and dealing with all that stuff made it not fun. Sure, it is self satisfying to know that one can reach those speeds; but up here, these suburbs who are money hungry--anyway--may make it stick, and it will go on your drivers license. And you will have a heck of a time explaining that to your spouse, your budget, and your insurance agent.
DougG
11-22-07, 07:43 AM
Sure, it is self satisfying to know that one can reach those speeds; but up here, these suburbs who are money hungry--anyway--may make it stick, and it will go on your drivers license.
Good for you for fighting it -- sometimes the courts know BS when they see it. I had a similar situation in one of our upscale suburbs in my car, getting ticketed for 30 in a 25 to the tune of $115. I complained to the cop about messing up my clean record, and he told me what number to call at the court. So I ended up going to a "pre-trial conference" (or something like that), where I met with someone from the D.A.'s office (and the cop present), and they basically plea-bargained the offense to a glorified parking ticket that would not go on my record at all. Of course, I still owed $115 for "obstructing traffic"!
This must be a real money-maker for them, as there were a couple dozen people in line at the time to go in for their conference. :(
slim_77
11-22-07, 07:55 AM
wow stumps, that was a bit of a circus! Congrats anyway!
In Germany the state is much better than we are about equal enforcement of traffic laws. Peds will be ticketed for crossing against their signal, cyclists for violating all traffic laws, cars for the doing the same. They have the autobahn and far fewer cyclists killed on their highways (as a proportion) than we do.
Hey Kimbercop, keep up the good work--you are doing your job! (I learned this lesson myself, I luckily got off the hook, except I would have paid a much higher price than any cop issuing a ticket could levy.)
stumpsbmwm3
11-22-07, 01:53 PM
[QUOTE=slim_77;5676795]wow stumps, that was a bit of a circus! Congrats anyway!
In Germany the state is much better than we are about equal enforcement of traffic laws. Peds will be ticketed for crossing against their signal, cyclists for violating all traffic laws, cars for the doing the same. They have the autobahn and far fewer cyclists killed on their highways (as a proportion) than we do.
Yeah I know,
I used to live in Geilenkirchen, about 50 miles west of stadt Aachen. I use to hear cycling noises every Samstag morning. But as usual I was too drunk and hungover from drinking German beer in Germany, to make it off the couch. One weekend I finally didn't party, and I looked out and saw row after row of cyclists on a Volksmarch, though they were cycling. I saved up some money and purchased a Peugeot 12 speed and joined them the next Samstag. Only they had been riding all their lives and I learned quickly what being out of shape causes. After a few weeks of sobriety (had to take back my key from the bar owner: the bar (I lived right across the road) (less than 200 feet and it would take me an hour to get home--especially being poured into the house) I finally got really caught up in cycling.
It is something to get a flat, walk into a bike shop that resembles a drive-through store, pay a few marks and pick up your changed tire and bike on the way out. There, cycling is actually a form of transportation so it serves to reason that they are stricter on them road law wise. On the other hand they also make motorist more responsible for how they treat cyclist. You hit a cyclist over there and your butt is hanging out in the wind. In the center of town or centrum, one is not allowed in many places to drive, so cycling is the preferred mode of travel. I loved it over there. Great food, great hospitality, clean, modern and yet classical. Outstanding people. Outstanding cycling.
Elkhound
11-24-07, 10:37 PM
Has anyone heard of a pedestrian ticketed for crossing against the light or otherwise violating the rules of the road?
A few years ago, when I was substitute teaching, I was driving to the school where I was called to cover; it was early enought that it was still dark, and I came around a blind curve and there was someone, dressed all in black, walking down the middle of the road. If my reflexes weren't so good, I would have hit him/her.
If you want to commit suicide, there are ways and ways of doing it. Take poison, put a gun to your head, jump in the river--but don't involve other people.
Kimbercop
11-25-07, 10:42 AM
In Illinois, the Vehicle Code has sections that regulate pedestrian movement. Citations can be issued for crossing against the light and other violations. Its extremely rare however, usually, as listed in the case at the top of this thread, when an accident has occurred. 20 years and no tickets to pedestrians so far for me.
Double_take
12-10-07, 12:31 PM
...and your insurance agent.
From a legal standpoint, how would a biking ticket (moving violation) be relevent to the insurer of my car? This seems rediculous for 2 reasons: 1) It does not prove I am an at risk driver, 2) In no way will the insurance company ever have to pay one cent if Im riding my bike and something happens.
If a moving violation stems from riding my bike does this go on my driving record to be seen by insurance companies?
Kimbercop
12-10-07, 07:36 PM
1) It does not prove I am an at risk driver,
If a moving violation stems from riding my bike does this go on my driving record to be seen by insurance companies?
Insurance companies are strange. In Illinois, you will be found partailly at fault no matter what. Example, a few weeks ago my dad is sitting at a red light when an accident happens for the opposite direction traffic. One of the cars bounces out of the intersection and strikes him, legally stopped at the red light. Listed as unit #3, loses good driver discount and rates jump. No tickets or accidents in over 20 years, yet rates go up over 25% for him just sitting there.
Not sure if a biking ticket would count as a mover against a DL. I would have to say no, since a license is not required for the operation of said bike.
spry
12-10-07, 08:00 PM
Insurance companies are strange. In Illinois, you will be found partailly at fault no matter what. Example, a few weeks ago my dad is sitting at a red light when an accident happens for the opposite direction traffic. One of the cars bounces out of the intersection and strikes him, legally stopped at the red light. Listed as unit #3, loses good driver discount and rates jump. No tickets or accidents in over 20 years, yet rates go up over 25% for him just sitting there.
Not sure if a biking ticket would count as a mover against a DL. I would have to say no, since a license is not required for the operation of said bike.
In Ohio you would be compelled to cite both parties for the complimentary $100 seat belt violation followed by "have a nice day.":D
cooker
12-10-07, 08:11 PM
I was riding southbound on Hwy 99 in Vancouver, Washington. There is a hill that goes up from 117th. If I had stayed on the right side of the road, the bike lane would have gone down to about 4" wide at a guard rail. There was heavy traffic from behind. But, at 117th I crossed over to the left side of the road on foot and with the traffic light. Then I rode southbound against the traffic up the hill in a bike lane wide enough to park a car. Was I wrong?
You were technically wrong in the eyes of the law, but you could try to justify it before a judge if you got a ticket. You made what you believed was the safest choice. When you were in the left shoulder lane, I hope you were extra vigilant about any driveways or intersections you crossed.
I did the same thing when training on a highway last summer, when I came to a section without a shoulder, on a right curve, with a guard rail as you had.
Double_take
12-11-07, 10:26 AM
Insurance companies are strange. In Illinois, you will be found partailly at fault no matter what. Example, a few weeks ago my dad is sitting at a red light when an accident happens for the opposite direction traffic. One of the cars bounces out of the intersection and strikes him, legally stopped at the red light. Listed as unit #3, loses good driver discount and rates jump. No tickets or accidents in over 20 years, yet rates go up over 25% for him just sitting there.
Thats rediculous! I hope he is ok.
Im going to have to watch out where im walking, if a car flies off the road and hits me my insurance premiums could go up :D
slim_77
12-11-07, 02:13 PM
that is really crap! I was hit three times in less than a year (it was a really bad year!) and I was told that on the fourth my rates would jump. I still thought that sucked...but my bad luck costs them more money, as they put it.
savage24
12-21-07, 04:46 AM
Good for you for fighting it -- sometimes the courts know BS when they see it. I had a similar situation in one of our upscale suburbs in my car, getting ticketed for 30 in a 25 to the tune of $115. I complained to the cop about messing up my clean record, and he told me what number to call at the court. So I ended up going to a "pre-trial conference" (or something like that), where I met with someone from the D.A.'s office (and the cop present), and they basically plea-bargained the offense to a glorified parking ticket that would not go on my record at all. Of course, I still owed $115 for "obstructing traffic"!
This must be a real money-maker for them, as there were a couple dozen people in line at the time to go in for their conference. :(
That's a bargain! Where I live, they do the same thing but they add another $100 to the fine....plus you have to pay an attorney to get it done. I got a speeding ticket earlier this year (42 in a 35...I was actually doing 52 MPH...the officer cut me a break). Since the attorney handling the ticket was a friend of a friend and only charged me $50, the ticket cost me a total of $250. I guess the good part here is I didn't have to go to court or the DA's office - they don't want to see you here, they just want your money!
Kimbercop
12-21-07, 12:28 PM
Wow, Illinois tickets must be a bargain on today's market. $75 for most moving violations if you pay by mail. Go to court, the judge may ding you a little bit more. I knew we were on the lighter side of the fine average but holy cow.
Speedster22
12-28-07, 08:58 PM
In Illinois, the Vehicle Code has sections that regulate pedestrian movement. Citations can be issued for crossing against the light and other violations. Its extremely rare however, usually, as listed in the case at the top of this thread, when an accident has occurred. 20 years and no tickets to pedestrians so far for me.
I use some ped violations (for instance walking with traffic) to F.I., stop and talk to people, if they look shady, albeit usually at night.
Also, our tags are 83.80 for 15 over and most other equipment violations.
scoatw
12-30-07, 03:12 PM
I was ridin' home the other night and was waiting for the light to change when a rider coming from the opposite direction just blows right thru the light. That kind of stuff makes bicyclists lood bad.
Tom Stormcrowe
12-30-07, 05:15 PM
Hey, Kimbercop.....
If I ride through Elgin, could I at least get a written warning for speeding on my bike? ;)
Kimbercop
12-30-07, 09:25 PM
Tom,
Not sure I'd be able to catch you. I'd have to deputize Psimet to track you down.