Bicycle Mechanics - Automotive/marine wheel bearing grease isn't cutting it for me

Have used this stuff for a while, really cheap, but it is just too viscous. Its meant for high temperature application where it melts but in a bike its always going to stay viscous.

Any other cheap alternatives that flow a little better?

I like park grease. 11/tub at jensonusa.com

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CM707B01-Park+Ppl-2+Polylube+1000+1+Lb.aspx

Its worth it!

Agree with PolyLube but a 1lb container will last you and your friends a lifetime. Buy the 4 oz tube instead.

There are a lot of good bike greases. Park's PolyLube and Phil Grease are two well known ones.

Why the emphasis on cheap? How much of any grease are you going to use? I bought Phil Grease in a 22-oz tub for about $20 and it will last for years even though I maintain 6 bikes. Buy a Duelco grease gun and refill it from the tub to keep the remaining grease clean.

If you insist on cheap, get a tub of white lithium grease at any auto supply store.

Have used this stuff for a while, really cheap, but it is just too viscous. Its meant for high temperature application where it melts but in a bike its always going to stay viscous.

Any other cheap alternatives that flow a little better?

How do you know it is not working? Bearing wear? Not waterproof enough?

Have used this stuff for a while, really cheap, but it is just too viscous. Its meant for high temperature application where it melts but in a bike its always going to stay viscous.

Any other cheap alternatives that flow a little better?


i use shimano grease....which is designed for bikes...not tugboats :eek:.

ed rader

Have used this stuff for a while, really cheap, but it is just too viscous. Its meant for high temperature application where it melts but in a bike its always going to stay viscous.

Any other cheap alternatives that flow a little better?

If your using it in the hubs, you can get a performance improvement (less drag) with the Park Tools grease or the Finish line white grease.

I like Phil Wood in the tube. Too much crud can get into grease that comes in tub containers.

If your using it in the hubs, you can get a performance improvement (less drag) with the Park Tools grease or the Finish line white grease.

Have you seen this quantified by an independent source? Maybe this is why I am so slow!
So Shimano has its own refinery and lubrication engineers where it makes this very special grease?
(I have a tube of this stuff and it is nice grease, BTW)
Many people have commented on the close similarity between the highly regarded Phil Wood's grease and the boat trailer stuff.

CV joint grease. Flows easily, comes in a tube, not a tub, cheap.

I strongly suspect that the viscosity of the grease detracts little from efficiency...

The bearings don't go zinging through the races, they roll through them... If the viscosity of the grease was a significant issue for friction in hubs and bottom brackets we wouldn't be using grease at all, we would be using thin oil, and oiling them after every ride. Because all the pros would be doing it, and then of course, the rest of us would have to as well because we all have to be like them...

If you really like bicycle specific grease, then it may provide some minor benefit of some type. At a minimum it helps the bottom line of our favorite companies. ;)

Have used this stuff for a while, really cheap, but it is just too viscous. Its meant for high temperature application where it melts but in a bike its always going to stay viscous.

Any other cheap alternatives that flow a little better?

You don't need a Hi-Temp grease. Just buy Mystik JT-6 (green label not red) or Slick 50 One Grease. Slick 50 acts more like a 1.5 grade grease, which many skaters and board riders use. OR look for a #1 or #1.5 NLGI grade grease. Bike grease are all #2 NLGI rated...just look at their MSDS. A good White Lithium grease is Jet Lube 50350 White Lithium Grease with PTFE.

Mystik JT-6 can be found at Wal*Mart, Slick 50 at local auto parts stores, and Jet Lube at marine or motorcycle shops.

I read a book by Forrester that advocated running on oil. He recommended drilling the hubs and bottom bracket and installing oil ports. Anybody actually doing this? I used to work for a company that made oil seals for truck wheels. One of the selling points was that oil in the bearings was more fuel efficient but the biggest selling point was elimination of the need to repack bearings every so many miles.


I strongly suspect that the viscosity of the grease detracts little from efficiency...

The bearings don't go zinging through the races, they roll through them... If the viscosity of the grease was a significant issue for friction in hubs and bottom brackets we wouldn't be using grease at all, we would be using thin oil, and oiling them after every ride. Because all the pros would be doing it, and then of course, the rest of us would have to as well because we all have to be like them...

If you really like bicycle specific grease, then it may provide some minor benefit of some type. At a minimum it helps the bottom line of our favorite companies. ;)

Full synthetic Valvoline bearing grease FTW !

I read a book by Forrester that advocated running on oil. He recommended drilling the hubs and bottom bracket and installing oil ports. Anybody actually doing this? I used to work for a company that made oil seals for truck wheels. One of the selling points was that oil in the bearings was more fuel efficient but the biggest selling point was elimination of the need to repack bearings every so many miles.

I can't get the cottered cranks off my 3 spd, so about once a year I just squirt oil down the top tube till it runs out the cup opening at the spindle. BB is perfectly smooth. Some early, very high end campy hubs were oil lubed rather than grease.

Oil is more than sufficient lubriction for any bearing on a bike since bicycle bearings have essentially no load, no speed, no heat.

I read a book by Forrester that advocated running on oil. He recommended drilling the hubs and bottom bracket and installing oil ports. Anybody actually doing this? I used to work for a company that made oil seals for truck wheels. One of the selling points was that oil in the bearings was more fuel efficient but the biggest selling point was elimination of the need to repack bearings every so many miles.

Ever see older Campy hubs with those black spring clips in the middle? Those clips were oil port covers for exactly this type of thing.

Most cyclist got tired of cleaning the oil off their hubs & spokes, however, and started using grease; after a while the oil ports were dropped.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

I read a book by Forrester that advocated running on oil. He recommended drilling the hubs and bottom bracket and installing oil ports. Anybody actually doing this? I used to work for a company that made oil seals for truck wheels. One of the selling points was that oil in the bearings was more fuel efficient but the biggest selling point was elimination of the need to repack bearings every so many miles.

Not good advice, really. Might be ok on a track bike, but for road or mountain, forget it.

How do you know it is not working? Bearing wear? Not waterproof enough?

It is working, I did not say that it wasn't. I am merely unhappy with the needless drag heavy greases introduce. The one thing they do have going for them is that they are more waterproof. I'd consider a marine grease for a winter bike and a lighter grease for others.

I found a tub of Park grease for 8 bucks, didn't realize it was that inexpensive, going to pick that up.

i think you overestimate the "extra drag".

remember the ball bearing is rolling in the race. It's not pushing through the grease. The grease largely stays put. In fact, it is the action of the grease staying put, and in contact with the ball bearings so it can rub off some lube from time to time that makes it a good lubricant for that purpose.

When you just take a bearing and spin it in your hand it has virtually no momentum behind it. This feeling of being "tight" does not translate to an appreciable amount of drag when you have something with the mass and leverage of a wheel or a crankset turning it. That's not the purpose of the lube anyway.

I would recommend reading up on some of Jobst Brand's writings about lubricants for bicycles, especially grease. Man there's a lot of hype out there.

I appreciate the input and do agree to an extent that any drag is rather negligible. However, using the thick stuff I'm using now, it just doesn't feel right to me. Headset doesn't turn smoothly, wheels don't spin as well.
I find that the BBs do move about, they don't stay in place. Don't know why but thats at least what I've seen

you mean the BB cups & threads move around or the bearing races have lateral slack?

If the former, well I hate BB service and despise creaking, discovered quite by accident that the Loctite-like substance (thread locker? anti-seize?) that comes pre-coated on Race Face BB cups results in a no-creak, no-need-for-service-until-the-bearings-go-out BB installation so I have taken to cleaning oil & grease off of BB cups, frame threads and crank bolts and using blue Loctite with success so far. Zero creaking and I don't have to re-torque the BB shell, cup, and crank bolts every 1K miles like I do with Shimano BB's installed old school style with grease. I have been fighting this problem for a decade!

If the latter, the bearings are shot. They should not have any lateral play.

Either way I don't think grease is causing your drag... maybe bearing tension or wrong tolerance or something. The drag caused by the grease is so close to zero that there's no way you'd discover it by riding a bicycle.

I like Phil Wood in the tube. Too much crud can get into grease that comes in tub containers.
I like Phil Grease in a tub because I get 7+ times as much for only 3 times the cost.

That's why I recommended the Duelco refillable grease gun in my earlier post. You refill it from the tub. The Duelco lets you control the amount and placement of the grease very accurately so waste is reduced and the rest of the tub stays clean and untouched.

Full synthetic Valvoline bearing grease FTW !

+1, I like it better than park grease

I use slick 50 marine grease, and haven't noticed being super slowed down.

Perhaps you're putting too much grease in there, so the bearings are having to push through it. You really only need enough to coat stuff, not submerge stuff.

I am rather liberal with my amounts
I'll have to experiment with scaling back the amount

I use slick 50 marine grease, and haven't noticed being super slowed down.

Perhaps you're putting too much grease in there, so the bearings are having to push through it. You really only need enough to coat stuff, not submerge stuff.

Sheldon Brown, among others, disagrees. The bearings will push the excess out soon enough. The 'extra' is a good barrier against moisture and dirt entering the system.

I've regularly use marine bearing grease and I don't find evidence of additional friction. I recently repacked a pair of vintage Campagnolo hubs with it, and they spin forever on the stand.

I appreciate the input and do agree to an extent that any drag is rather negligible. However, using the thick stuff I'm using now, it just doesn't feel right to me. Headset doesn't turn smoothly, wheels don't spin as well.
I find that the BBs do move about, they don't stay in place. Don't know why but thats at least what I've seen

Sounds more like the bearing preload is not correctly adjusted than a grease problem.

Sheldon Brown, among others, disagrees. The bearings will push the excess out soon enough. The 'extra' is a good barrier against moisture and dirt entering the system.

I've regularly use marine bearing grease and I don't find evidence of additional friction. I recently repacked a pair of vintage Campagnolo hubs with it, and they spin forever on the stand.Yeah, any excess grease will simply get pushed aside on teh very first rotation. However, the marine stuff is tacky enough to get pulled back in to maintain lubrication. I've found that normal auto-bearing grease gets pushed aside, and stays away. You end up with dry bearings in less than a year. With the marine grease, I've pulled apart Campy ball-bearing bottom-brackets after 2-years and there's still a coating of grease on the bearings.

Have you seen this quantified by an independent source? Maybe this is why I am so slow!
So Shimano has its own refinery and lubrication engineers where it makes this very special grease?
(I have a tube of this stuff and it is nice grease, BTW)
Many people have commented on the close similarity between the highly regarded Phil Wood's grease and the boat trailer stuff.

Remember that the manufacturers grease has many jobs to do including staying in place without service for a prolonged period of time.

No quantified independent sources are available but A-B-A tests of both spin time on the stand and speed retention tests while coasting down from a fixed speed result in a noticable performance improvement when using Finish Line White grease with teflon. The hubs will require regreasing at least once a season (in part because the grease is more likely to get past the seals and out of the hub) The concept of using thinner or more "slippery" lubricants in high performance vehicles is pretty much a given in the racing world. You would not however want to use these lubes on a "boat trailer".

Gotta agree with others here, marine grease is silicone based grease to give it extra waterproofing.
Most waterproof greases are silicone.
Silicone greases are very 'tacky' and retains its viscosity longer in high temp applications (ie. auto brake calipers).

I suspect Phil Wood waterproof grease is silicone based. I use it and love it.
I've used Valvoline HD automotive bearing grease (red stuff) successfully in the past for hubs and BBs.
Back in the 80s, I had a set of Campy Record hubs with those oil holes as mentioned.
The Campy hubs were factory packed with white lithium grease. I tried the periodic motor oil lubing routine one season. (I guess castor bean oil would have been better)
I ended that silly idea after constantly cleaning up my rear wheel of nasty oil and dirt spinning down the spokes. PITA!
:)
That bike doesn't see a lot of seat time now, I think it's still packed with Valvoline. Never had any trouble with it, spins very smooth.

Moly greases would be the best of the automotive greases IMHO. The added moly offers high pressure protection to all contact surfaces.
But don't confuse these with CV joint lube which is moly based. That stuff is much lower viscosity than a standard grease. It's designed to flow more in all temperatures.

I'm no fan of white lithium greases. I find them to be higher maintenance as they will dry out and cake up much sooner if there is any route to air exposure.
For white lithium grease supporters, try a urea-based grease. It's been advised as a substitute for its better operating life.

Bottom line, stick with what is known to work. These days, it's Phil Wood's product. I think the tube I have will last me decades.
:D

Many people have commented on the close similarity between the highly regarded Phil Wood's grease and the boat trailer stuff.

I think there is more than a similarity.

http://bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=3620540


Well, I can tell you what really gets *me* hacked off. It's a company re-labeling a simple marine wheelbearing grease and THEN implying that it's "bicycle specific". Know who does this? Phil Wood. The highly touted (by some, not by me) "Phil Waterproof Wheelbearing Grease" is none other than Drydene Marine Wheelbearing grease, repackaged and sold without acknowledgement. This came to light here on the Forums back in '05. I had always been skeptical about that grease because there was no technical info whatsoever on the tube--so no way to know what thickener is used, or anything else. And for me, the "Phil" mystique ain't enough. I think it's outrageous that they do that, and I lost a lot of respect for the company when I learned that. I don't mind at all if a company labels a grease as "bicycle specific", but they darn well better be able to explain why, or at least reveal the minimum of facts about the product.