Living Car Free - Bringing bags into stores

Actually... by every law I've ever read, you're mistaken.

You might not have read every law ever written. It depends on the state you live in. I think our state used to say you had to actually leave the store, but now you only have to show intent to leave the store with unpaid merchandise.

You might not have read every law ever written. It depends on the state you live in. I think our state used to say you had to actually leave the store, but now you only have to show intent to leave the store with unpaid merchandise.

Which is quite a different thing than placing said merchandise in a 'concealed' location.

I'd like to know where Tpelle received his loss prevention 'training'. ;)

My university coop doesn't allow bags in, and they have some place to put them but it's not locked in any way but they are looked after. It doesn't bother me that much but I wonder how they'd cope with the situation if I got my bag stolen, along with the almost 2K$ worth of stuff in it?

I think Specialized Fan has been mostly polite and civil. Although I wonder why he's drawn so magnetically to our car free discussions, I don't yet think it's because he wants to inflict pain on other people. We know real trolls and I don't think Specialized Fan is one of them. Of course, that's an opinion that's subject to change, we'll see how it plays out.

I agree. However, the fact that he just joined BF in September and has posted almost exclusively negative comments in Living Car Free makes me wonder if he might be an alter ego of a known troll (or even a known nontroll) who wants to test how reputation affects the way this forum reacts to negative comments.

I hate to sound like a sellout, but I side with the store on this one. The store you go to is probably near a mddle school or high school, and they probably have a problem with students (who almost always have backpacks or mess bags) and petty theft. It isn't very fair to make the students deposit their bags while letting older people carry them.

I do sometimes ask if they make women surrender their purses, but that logic has no effect. I also put my pack in a shopping cart, and in that case they usually let it slide.

It's two blocks away from Covenant House ,a home for troubled teens. Across the street from Interfaith which feeds the homeless and street kids in their parking lot. It's not the ideal neighborhood that's for sure.

I'd probably get mildly irritated if someone asked to take my bag. I rarely carry one, since I hate having anything on my shoulder (I have scoliosis). I am young and I imagine I can sometimes look like a delinquent (I have long hair and a beard, and sometimes have a bandage wrapped around my arm from donating blood plasma), but that doesn't seem to matter to any store around here.

I carry my laptop in the backpack, so the check-in isn't happening. If someone asks for the bag I think the best thing, like someone else said, is to tell them you can follow me around, but I tell them you can fully check my back when I exit. They never do.

I also think the type of bag makes a difference...if it's a clean pack rather than a messenger bag I think you'll breeze through

The other key thing is I keep the bag closed and tied down - they are typically looking for an open bag that you can drop stuff into...

At one local Kroger, the counter offer they make is to call the cops. And since all the security guards at that Kroger are LRPD officers I'm hesitant to call their bluff. I suspect they aren't bluffing.

At the other nearby Kroger, I've never had anyone even bother me about my bag. All the clerks know me as the guy on the bicycle. You know which Kroger I shop at the most.
I think that people at the Kroger HQ would not be happy to hear your story about that first store. Our Fred Meyer stores are owned by Kroger, they even donate to some of our cycling-related events, and they have employees who donate their time for said events.

I work at a big chain grocery store and we encourage people to bring their own bags. In fact we give a 5 cent credit towards your groceries for every bag you bring and use. Living in a college town we have plenty of cyclists. Most bring in their panniers/trunks/etc. We still give them the credit and its encouraged for them to use them to shop.
I get my nickel discount in Portland for my panniers, as well. :)

I have frequented some stores that require you to check your bag (pannier) when you enter them, though not very often. However, I will check my pannier only when I am asked. And I don’t have an issue with this per se.

I have worked and managed in retail, and I’ve even busted shoplifters. But to my experience, understanding and training, proving intent to shoplift holds more water when you’ve caught them outside the store.

Vancouver is a fairly green city, philosophically speaking. It is also a city that has very active inhabitants. So it is not uncommon to see many cyclists in a grocery store (which is where I shop the most).

And I guess my point is this…once societies view cycle commuters as the norm and not the fringe, then it may understand and appreciate the practicalities and idiosyncrasies of cycle commuters, with respect to panniers/bags and our valuables…not the stores.

Of course there is always the exception to the rule, and there will always be those who will take advantage of this.

I do sometimes ask if they make women surrender their purses, but that logic has no effect. I also put my pack in a shopping cart, and in that case they usually let it slide.

Why does putting your pack in a shopping cart mollify them? Is it easier to stuff stolen goods into a pack if it's on your back?

The only one I've seen is the No-frills at Dundas/Landsdowne and it says "the store reserves the right to request to inspect your bags" which of course, you have the right to refuse.

We take 2 backpacks,2 panniers and another bag along in the cart and nobody's ever said a thing to us.There's a Save-A-Lot discount grocery store near here with one of those signs - in a location that is not visible until you've entered, shopped, checked out, and started walking to the door. I don't understand how they "reserve" a right they don't have.

I shop at my local grocer because they let me bring my bike and paniers in the store and use it instead of a shopping cart...when the paniers are full I know I can't buy anymore groceries.

.

That's what I do. Never had a problem.

I went through this nightmare before I had a car and this illustrates why I'm glad I have a big ass grocery hauler * I like to take my SUV down to Star Bucks to get my Latte.

Big oil shill? Big 3 shill?

Big oil shill? Big 3 shill?
Those folks have their hands full right now with Congress, the major networks, and Wall Street!

If you're curious about someone, and if you listen to him talk long enough, eventually he'll tell you everything you want to know.

In general (and not talking now about SF) you rarely really know who you're talking with on the Internet. Such things as viral marketing and online advocacy do exist, but there are also plain folks who are just curious to find out what we're all about. I don't see how we could go wrong by staying polite and engaging skeptical newcomers in a civil way on the issues.

1. carry a little fake tube that goes up to your nose - tell them you have oxygen in there and you cannot leave the bag for fear of suffocation.

or.

2. tell them you carry heart medication there, if you have an attack, you must reach for the medicine in the bag. You do not want to lose the medicine so you can't be separated from your bag...

or.

3. tell them you have a bomb in it, if they take it, you'll detonate the bomb. (you will most likely end up in jail after pulling this stunt ... so be warned).

or.

4. get at least 1 other friend, with an identical book bag / messenger bag... go into the store and surrender both bags. When leaving the store at the same time as your friend, get into a big fight about which bag is yours ... make a huge scene - make the manager look like an idiot.

Why does putting your pack in a shopping cart mollify them? Is it easier to stuff stolen goods into a pack if it's on your back?

That's what I think too. But I guess they don't mentally categorize it as "backpack" if it's in the cart. Funny how human brains work!

Actually... by every law I've ever read, you're mistaken.

I grew up in GA, and there the little slogan that police used to explain shoplifting was "Concealing is stealing". I think it does just depend on state law. I always thought that you couldn't even conceal an item anywhere, because that's the way it is in Georgia.

I grew up in GA, and there the little slogan that police used to explain shoplifting was "Concealing is stealing". I think it does just depend on state law. I always thought that you couldn't even conceal an item anywhere, because that's the way it is in Georgia.

Yeah, but what's the difference between "concealing" an item in your own basket/bag and "concealing" it in the basket/bag provided by the store?

I grew up in GA, and there the little slogan that police used to explain shoplifting was "Concealing is stealing". I think it does just depend on state law. I always thought that you couldn't even conceal an item anywhere, because that's the way it is in Georgia.

I think most states you actually have to bypass the registers and be headed for the door to prove 'intent' to steal the item. SOME states just 'concealing' is enough... but in that case you could possibly make a very good argument that you WERE going to pay for the item, and just preferred to haul your groceries in your own bag, which is much more comfortable and easy to carry than the baskets provided.

I very rarely have these kinds of problems... I guess I'm a pretty memorable person... by the time I've visited a store a few times, I know enough people there (and they remember me) that I don't usually have any issues. :)

I also go out of my way to be friendly, and always ask the other person's name when I'm dealing with someone (Even if I AM gonna forget it in 10 minutes.... I'm HORRIBLE with names!) It's usually enough to get you remembered.

Wow. I've never heard of that kind of behavior. I walk around stores with my huge messenger bag all the time, and never have a problem. Of course, I always use a shopping cart or a basket. Our local movie theater has a sign stating that backpacks aren't allowed, but when I walk in with my Schwinn backpack with my helmet in it I don't get a second glance. It's nice to live in a small town sometimes, i guess.

Hmm, interesting and because my mind is never on the right track....
What would happen if you had a license to carry concealed and had a firearm in your bags?
What if the person you give it to did not have a license to carry concealed?
Could you call the police straight away as they are now in possession of a concealed firearm?
It could teach them a lesson.

I understand why they would ask for your bags, but they shoul dhave a signed declaration that they are responsible for your property and anything that goes missing or is damaged. Could always get a broken bashed up laptop and put it in there and pull it out after they have had it and ask what happened.

I just bought a portable folding bike. If I put it in a bag, are store people going to make me give it to them?

In NC, where I have worked retail, you have to show something is concealed from view, and show intent to not pay for it. Usually we would wait for the person to attempt to walk past the register if they had been observed concealing items. Some larger stores will stop them once they conceal something in their coat or bag. I have a hard time believing that putting something in a mesh, open top bag would be considered concealment by anybody. I also agree with bmclaughlin807 in that it pays to get to know the people. My wife stopped by one of the local sandwich/sub shops to get something to eat the other day, she got a business related phone call and forgot to pay for it and walked out. I happened to be working at my wife's store when the fellow called me an told me what happened, just happens one of his employees was making a payment for her prom dress at our store on her way to work, so we just sent the money back with her:p small town living at it's best. But on the flip side if you are going to be a career criminal don't do it in a small town because everybody will know it and won't let you in the door.;) I shop the local owned grocery store in that town quite often and they all know me and my bike. Normally I lock up out front under the build canopy, but forgot my lock one day. I asked if I could leave it in the front of the store by the register, the manager insisted on locking it in his office for me, on that day I just happened to be riding my Redline 9.2.5 fixie.

Aaron:)

I could see a city where car free would make sense and that is New York City as there are many people that don't have cars as it is so ridiculously expensive to own one there and too crowded.
I am just adding some counter argument.
so someone could be in the main forums and add counter argument as to how a motorcycle is waaaay better than a Specialized?

what you did was come off quite badly. A group of folks were having a discussion about bags, )and I see guys get out of honking SUVs with laptop bags) and yo u stomped in and basically called us all poor or eccentric.
nice way to play, there, buddy.

Frankly, I'd rather not deal with a car, but that's me, and I'm not going to go in somewhere where people are discussing their honking SUVs and say, "hey bikes rule!!!!!111!!!1", which is, basically what you did, adding a latte on the end.

A counter argument could be "using a car is one way to not have to deal with the clerks and policies about bags. I found it far easier to not fight that battle."

That, I could have respected.

Back to the topic, I have found that grocery stores, especially Sunflower, Wild Oats, Whole Foods or Vitamin Cottage are much nicer to alternative carrying, as items or people. One clerk offered me a new mesh bag for free. I declined (can only carry so many bags and I have extras as it is). But how cool was that?

The "Real Canadian Superstore" by my place used to have a rule about bringing in bags. Unfortunantly, It's the only place I could do shopping for my workplace (I work at a daycare) So one day, I did this:

It was about 1:30pm, a time when only stay at home parents and old people are out shopping, so I stood by the door with my bag, and waited for an old lady with a GIANT purse, you know, one that you could stuff a border collie in and have room left over.

My moment came, when a little elderly woman strolled in with a purse the size of a body bag. I fallowed her in. The greeter at the door let her through, but stopped me (probably on account of me being a 20 year old decked out in tights, covered by rolled up pants, and a band t-shirt) and said "Excuse me, I'm going to have to ask you to leave your bag in the lockers, or checked at customer service" So I said "Well, you just let that woman by, and her bag is bigger then mine"

5 minutes later, I was browsing the aisles with my bag, since the greeter didn't want to risk the flak of playing judge and jury.

I often wonder what would happen if, I purchased an item from the same or different store say a bottle of aspirin that I carry with me in my bag. Store suspects that I have been shoplifting how am I to prove that this item is mine since I don't carry around the receipts with me.

I often wonder what would happen if, I purchased an item from the same or different store say a bottle of aspirin that I carry with me in my bag. Store suspects that I have been shoplifting how am I to prove that this item is mine since I don't carry around the receipts with me.
Seems to me it would be the store's problem to prove it came off their shelf. But maybe the date code/lot code on the bottle doesn't match what's on their store shelves?

I often wonder what would happen if, I purchased an item from the same or different store say a bottle of aspirin that I carry with me in my bag. Store suspects that I have been shoplifting how am I to prove that this item is mine since I don't carry around the receipts with me.

You carry around an unopened bottle of aspirin? If it's opened I doubt even the most overzealous clerk or rent a cop will question you.

My last recollection of our state's law on shoplifting was that the suspected person had to be kept in full view at all times by either store security personnell, the store's surveillance system, or both in conjunction, of taking/concealing an item, and then they have to leave the store without paying for the item before any charges can be brought against them. So if one of our local stores brings charges against an individual and cannot prove an item was brought in or taken from their store without the above guidelines, usually the charges are dropped and a lawsuit will incur against the store.

I often wonder what would happen if, I purchased an item from the same or different store say a bottle of aspirin that I carry with me in my bag. Store suspects that I have been shoplifting how am I to prove that this item is mine since I don't carry around the receipts with me.

In this instance you could put some new aspirin tablets in an old bottle, and carry that one.

When I am carrying a new book with me and I think I might head into a bookstore, I tuck the receipt into the back of the book. I've never been queried, but if I were, I'd have the receipt handy.

I just bought a portable folding bike. If I put it in a bag, are store people going to make me give it to them?

Maybe what I should do is not put the bike in the bag. If I just carry it around, they'll see that it's a bike. OTOH, they might say, 'You can't bring a bike in here!'

You carry around an unopened bottle of aspirin? If it's opened I doubt even the most overzealous clerk or rent a cop will question you.

Actually not asprin but I am carrying around some vicks nasal spray, upper respitory infection I have been fighting, but it is opened.

Actually not asprin but I am carrying around some vicks nasal spray, upper respitory infection I have been fighting, but it is opened.

I can't see even the most anal of rent-a-cops hassling you over medication.

I walked into a grocery once with my trunk (with panniers) slung on my shoulder and carrying my handlebar bag. The only comment I got was the cashier saying that she wondered what my trunk was. I explained how it fit on my bike and how I was not going to leave anything detachable outside the store. I guess I had the advantage since nobody knew what the heck I was carrying. It was in the pretentious part of town, so I guess they didn't think I was doing anything criminal. It is a spendy store, but it's on the way home, and I'll stop there until they give me problems.

the last time i was a asked to leave my bag at the front of the store, i ask the door man if he requires all ladies to leave their purses at the door when they come in. he was taken back and i just walked in.

You know what would be cool?

If a supermarket put bike racks inside the store, maybe giving us a little of the space currently used for cart storage.

^^^ I thought I was the only one who ever thought of that. Maybe it's not such a crazy idea after all...

I walked into a grocery once with my trunk (with panniers) slung on my shoulder and carrying my handlebar bag. The only comment I got was the cashier saying that she wondered what my trunk was. I explained how it fit on my bike and how I was not going to leave anything detachable outside the store. I guess I had the advantage since nobody knew what the heck I was carrying. It was in the pretentious part of town, so I guess they didn't think I was doing anything criminal. It is a spendy store, but it's on the way home, and I'll stop there until they give me problems.


They're saying to themselves "Who is the poor guy with the tool belt? I wasn't expecting maintenance."

I went through this nightmare before I had a car and this illustrates why I'm glad I have a big ass grocery hauler as the hassle factor is not worth the money you save and the environment you think you are saving. Looking back on my live I can't believe I actually lived like this. What fascinates me is some of you are most likely sitting a huge pile of cash. I did the saddle bag in the store thing and it was a real pain in the ass. I did it out of necessity, but some who could easily afford a car but choose not to have a car, and some down right hate car period and seem to be happy to go backwards and not have cars at all. This is all weird thinking to me. I love riding, but when it is 110* I like to take my SUV down to Star Bucks to get my Latte.

Summon the villagers to burn the troll at the stake!

At Lowes and Home Depot I take my bike inside with me... use my grocery panniers as my cart. I did have one employee look at me funny once as I was shopping... then he just shrugged and walked away.

That's a good idea; I may try that one. Purely from the point of view of having room to maneuver the bike walkign it, when the aisles are wide enough for carts a bike should be okay.

I guess riding my trike along the aisles would be frowned upon?


but, haven't tried it yet (thinks evil thoughts)

Y
If a supermarket put bike racks inside the store, maybe giving us a little of the space currently used for cart storage.

Cart storage inside the store? Thats crazy stuff. ;)

Al

Cart storage inside the store? Thats crazy stuff. ;)

Al

Even crazier--Some of the stores around here have giant hot-air blowers that de-ice the carts in the winter time. Maybe my bike would appreciate taking a sauna while I'm shopping?

Even crazier--Some of the stores around here have giant hot-air blowers that de-ice the carts in the winter time. Maybe my bike would appreciate taking a sauna while I'm shopping?
Carts here sit under misters on the grocery store veranda to keep access to them cool in the summer.

Al

Carts here sit under misters on the grocery store veranda to keep access to them cool in the summer.

Al

Hey, I've grabbed a cart handle after it's been sitting out in the parking lot in 110 degree + temps... not a pleasant experience, but.... misters? Good thing they have plenty of water in that desert you live in, huh? ;)

I haven't encountered this problem. When I go to the grocery store, I carry my backpack in with me. I throw the backpack inside the grocery basket. i put all my groceries inside the grocery cart. When I go to the checkout counter, I put the groceries inside the backpack as the cashier checks them out.

I'm lucky and do live in a small town with a very low crime rate. When I go to the local dept store. I simply leave the backpack on the bike. When I come out with my stuff. I will then put it in the backpack. For some reason, I've never taken my backpack inside this dept store. They have had a few of shoplifters in their before. I figure they would want to hold my backpack until I got through shopping.

That wouldn't be a problem for me. However, I find it easier to just keep it on the bike. I only shop in the daytime. Like I said, the crime rate here is low. If they want to steal the backpack, I say let um have it. They probably need it more than me. I only gave $10.00 for it a couple of years ago.

In the worst case scenario in which they are not willing to budge on taking your bag, and you're not willing to give it to them (or walk out the door), how about locking up the zippers with a small luggage padlock and giving them the keys to hold instead?

http://media.rei.com/media/c/1280130.jpg
$5 at REI.

In the worst case scenario in which they are not willing to budge on taking your bag, and you're not willing to give it to them (or walk out the door), how about locking up the zippers with a small luggage padlock and giving them the keys to hold instead?

http://media.rei.com/media/c/1280130.jpg
$5 at REI.If they have locks, then it seems they'd make the offer to you. Your locks? How many keys do you have? How would you prove that you don't have another key on your person?

If they have locks, then it seems they'd make the offer to you. Your locks? How many keys do you have? How would you prove that you don't have another key on your person?

Those locks come with 2 keys, so if you give both to them...

True, it may occur to them you could have made copies ahead of time or modified the locks in such a way that they don't really lock but only appear so...

But really, after such presumably heated argument with you over the bags, they probably won't think that far and might let it go.

Note: this may not work with flap-style messenger bags.

You all seem so keen to shoplift :lol: