I've been comuting to work all spring and summer and into the fall. I proabably only drove to work about 4 or 5 times in the last six months, but it was windy, cold, and raining on Tuesday this week so I drove to work. My car would not start on my lunch break and I had to spend 180 dollars for parts to fix it. I never had that problem with my bike.

sorry to hear that, the same thing happened to me a few weeks ago. My batterie wen dead and went bad on me. Luckily it was still under warrenty and walmart was out of the exact replacement. I had to get a $10 cheaper one so they gave me $10 back!

Do you make sure to try to use your car every now and then? I try for once every 2 weeks or so, but at times it gets to once every month or so.

What was $180?

Why are people posting about their cages in the car-free forum.

Most of us are beyond such primitive forms of transportation. Its called evolution and you guys should look into it.

Maybe I could post about my bike on www.ILOVECARS.com

ha ha.

Just kidding guys! As long as you own a car you will take this kind of medicine.

Just kidding guys! As long as you own a car you will take this kind of medicine.

No surprise to the OP. But why add insult to injury? Many of the posters are here to learn more about car-free living. I salute even the fact that they are looking in the car-free direction. That's so much better than the average motorist. :D

Actually I have a car for the times that the bus/bike dont quite meet up with my school and work schedule. I would love to be completly car-free. But right now I am choosing to drive once every few weeks and getting an education and being able to afford housing. After I graduate, then the car will be gone as soon as I find a good job in my career field!

No surprise to the OP. But why add insult to injury? Many of the posters are here to learn more about car-free living. I salute even the fact that they are looking in the car-free direction. That's so much better than the average motorist. :D

Tough love?

: )

MyBikeGotStolen - Yes I do drive it every once in a while just to blow the cobwebs out.

lyeinyouryey - It was an ignition module and a crank shaft position sensor.

gosmsgo - I was under the impression that the "car light" people could post here too. But anyway, I realise that you are just ribbing me :)

Oh, and by the way, I actually work at a car dealership. Oh, the irony, a guy who works at a car dealership but doesn't like to drive a car. I have a wife and 4 kids too, so living totally car free would be very difficult. Anyway, I only drive to work on days when the wind, rain, and cold are all a factor. Wind, rain, and cold - I can take 2 of them but not all three at once.

Tough love?

: )

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1993/photok199et7.jpg

...I was under the impression that the "car light" people could post here too...Oh, and by the way, I actually work at a car dealership. Oh, the irony, a guy who works at a car dealership but doesn't like to drive a car...
Yes. Like any of the other forums on BF, anyone can post here if what they have to say is on topic. I'd assume that would include even car-only people.

Also, I think we have a couple of automotive designers and an auto mechanic who post here as well!

lyeinyouryey - It was an ignition module and a crank shaft position sensor.Solid gold eh? ;)

It just goes to show that a car IS expensive to maintain. For the price of the OP's repair I could double my bike collection:roflmao: I hate to pay for truck repairs and mine are big bucks when they occur. If the company wasn't paying for it I wouldn't own it. But car light is on the horizon!:p

Aaron:)

It just goes to show that expensive cars are expensive to maintain. ;)

I have heard that you do have to drive them now and then so various seals and such don't degrade. I had something similar once (I forget what) where the car seemed to develop a need for a repair by just sitting in the driveway.

Exactly. For any relatively complex mechanical device, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Bikes are nice in that even after being left in a field for decades they can be refurbed good as new in a couple hours. Cars and other complex mechanical contraptions need more time and effort after they sit unattended, especially if they aren't stored properly. That being said, there are cost effective methods of dealing with both.

I think in January I am going to need an entire new drive train and new tires.

That should cost me about $100.00

ha ha

: )

MyBikeGotStolen - Yes I do drive it every once in a while just to blow the cobwebs out.

lyeinyouryey - It was an ignition module and a crank shaft position sensor.

gosmsgo - I was under the impression that the "car light" people could post here too. But anyway, I realise that you are just ribbing me :)

Oh, and by the way, I actually work at a car dealership. Oh, the irony, a guy who works at a car dealership but doesn't like to drive a car. I have a wife and 4 kids too, so living totally car free would be very difficult. Anyway, I only drive to work on days when the wind, rain, and cold are all a factor. Wind, rain, and cold - I can take 2 of them but not all three at once.

You're car-lite and you live in Nebraska? And you work for a car dealership? I can only imagine what your co-workers, friends and neighbors think of you. That's impressive. You're either a totally independent-minded maverick or a lunatic.

MyBikeGotStolen - Yes I do drive it every once in a while just to blow the cobwebs out.

lyeinyouryey - It was an ignition module and a crank shaft position sensor.

gosmsgo - I was under the impression that the "car light" people could post here too. But anyway, I realise that you are just ribbing me :)

Oh, and by the way, I actually work at a car dealership. Oh, the irony, a guy who works at a car dealership but doesn't like to drive a car. I have a wife and 4 kids too, so living totally car free would be very difficult. Anyway, I only drive to work on days when the wind, rain, and cold are all a factor. Wind, rain, and cold - I can take 2 of them but not all three at once.

I used to sell televisions, but did not own a TV. Later, I sold lawn mowers, but did not own a lawn. Come to think of it, I still don't own either of those things. Woot!

That said, today I drove half an hour to pick up a bike that was getting a tune up. (Also rode the new Rockhopper 29er and a Crosstrail.) Threw it in the back of the car, stopped at a gas station for Subway, went back to the car, and "click"; no start. Everything was dead. Looks like a bad connection on the battery. My tools won't fit the connector. Right after I open the hood, a co-worker shows, and we try jumping it. No luck. I eat my sandwich, pull the bike out the trunk, and go get a friend with more tools and better jumper cables. While one of my bikes tends to live in my car, I was especially glad to have it today.

Actually I have a car for the times that the bus/bike dont quite meet up with my school and work schedule. I would love to be completly car-free. But right now I am choosing to drive once every few weeks and getting an education and being able to afford housing. After I graduate, then the car will be gone as soon as I find a good job in my career field!

From what I've observed and from what I've read on the forums, those who are completely car-free almost always live in large centres with most services nearby and with transit or public transportation available to them. Without nearby services and without transportation altenatives, it's impossible — or nearly impossible — to ditch the car entirely.

In any case, it is possible to make some wise choices and cut back on the amount one uses the car. For myself, I've been able to go at least a month on a tank of gas in winter and well over two months on a tank in summer — and that includes driving for work. I'm spending less on fuel now than I did when it was half the cost.

You're car-lite and you live in Nebraska? And you work for a car dealership? I can only imagine what your co-workers, friends and neighbors think of you. That's impressive. You're either a totally independent-minded maverick or a lunatic.

Well, they do think I'm a little different, but for the most part they are very supportive. Most of the people out here are friendly, of course we have a few hillbilly nut jobs but even the big citys have them.

From what I've observed and from what I've read on the forums, those who are completely car-free almost always live in large centres with most services nearby and with transit or public transportation available to them. Without nearby services and without transportation altenatives, it's impossible — or nearly impossible — to ditch the car entirely.

In any case, it is possible to make some wise choices and cut back on the amount one uses the car. For myself, I've been able to go at least a month on a tank of gas in winter and well over two months on a tank in summer — and that includes driving for work. I'm spending less on fuel now than I did when it was half the cost.

I've never ridden a city bus in my life.

My city is only about 8-9 miles wide so its really easy to be car free here.

The population is about 100,000 people. I do not know if it would be easier or harder if I lived in a smaller or larger city.

I grew up in the country and the nearest city was about 13 miles away. IT had a population of about 1,000 people. It would of been even easier to be car free there because there is hardly any cars at all and of course the town was not big at all. You could go to the grocery store, post office and gas station in about a 3 mile trip.

I think the "deal breaker" for me would be that the city would have to be large enough to have a rental car place so I could leave town if I wanted. Its about 100 miles from my moms old house to the nearest rental car place. If you did not have a car then thats a pretty good bike to go pick one up!!

It just goes to show that expensive cars are expensive to maintain. ;)

I was really shocked when I started cycling and found out how cheap it is to maintain a bike.

My first major repair was a new BB and front hub. They cost me $70 at the LBS (which I now think overcharges). When I did my first DIY "brake job" it cost me about $12 to put top-quality new pads on. I was used to paying 10 times as much for comparable repairs on my cars.

I was really shocked when I started cycling and found out how cheap it is to maintain a bike.

My first major repair was a new BB and front hub. They cost me $70 at the LBS (which I now think overcharges). When I did my first DIY "brake job" it cost me about $12 to put top-quality new pads on. I was used to paying 10 times as much for comparable repairs on my cars.You'll nickel and dime yerself to death w/ food. :p I've found the absolute cheapest I can eat equates to about a cent per mile, but I don't eat like that unless I have to, so it's likely ~2-3 cents/mile, and I'm still pretty frugal (aka cheap). At a measly 50mpg, a used, reasonably priced car w/ two people is likely as cheap as a bicycle for each, and much faster. Sure, if we overeat or aren't in shape, then we might as well do something useful w/ the energy, but that's kinda silly since we can just as easily do something else constructive w/ our excess intake. So... Bikes are as expensive as carz provided sensible use. And don't get me started in a e-bike to cyclist comparison, it's not fair for the cyclist.

You'll nickel and dime yerself to death w/ food. :p I've found the absolute cheapest I can eat equates to about a cent per mile, but I don't eat like that unless I have to, so it's likely ~2-3 cents/mile, and I'm still pretty frugal (aka cheap). At a measly 50mpg, a used, reasonably priced car w/ two people is likely as cheap as a bicycle for each, and much faster. Sure, if we overeat or aren't in shape, then we might as well do something useful w/ the energy, but that's kinda silly since we can just as easily do something else constructive w/ our excess intake. So... Bikes are as expensive as carz provided sensible use. And don't get me started in a e-bike to cyclist comparison, it's not fair for the cyclist.


Why does triple A estimate over 50 cents per mile to operate a car?

Saying that a bike is as expensive as a car is nutty. N U T T Y

I've commuted about 4,250 miles this year and my new bike cost me $750 and will last a decade with about $100 worth of parts per year.

Thats about 50,000 miles for 1750 dollars or 3.5 cents per mile. I'm not sure you can count food.....60% of americans are overweight or obese if anything it is to your pocketbooks benifet to stay thin.

Very few people get home from work after commuting and think, "oh geez, I have to eat more food just to replace those calories and this is so expensive."

Cars are definitely more costly to maintain and cost way more per mile of use.
But just as a curiousity I've roughly figured that for tires alone, the cost per mile is about the same bike or car.
Al

Why does triple A estimate over 50 cents per mile to operate a car?Because they assume a new car driven 15k miles per year with full insurance and all work done by a shop. In other words, some richie rich who can afford to drop thousands of dollars on something shiney, like a new car, LCD whatevea, or $700 bike. ;)

Saying that a bike is as expensive as a car is nutty. N U T T Y Saying a bike is as expensive as a car is true, depending on the conditions, which I stated in the post.

I've commuted about 4,250 miles this year and my new bike cost me $750 and will last a decade with about $100 worth of parts per year.Your new bike cost more than my road bike, my hardtail, my folder, my coaster, my car, and my truck combined. That, along with the high cost of food, is why I say that a cheap car used appropriately is cheaper than a bike.

I'm not sure you can count food.....60% of americans are overweight or obese if anything it is to your pocketbooks benifet to stay thin.Of course you can. Just because people can't control their appetite doesn't mean it magically comes from no where.

Very few people get home from work after commuting and think, "oh geez, I have to eat more food just to replace those calories and this is so expensive."I'm not saying they do. But... the energy does come from somewhere, and that somewhere for most people is fossil fuel intensive, costly agribidness. It's analogous to Carbon trading, which doesn't reduce Carbon emissions much, if at all, but increases our feelgud.

Tires for my truck were over $100.00 a piece.

I think it depends upon how expensive of bike tire you choose and how expensive of car tire you choose.

I know people who put the cheapest tires possible on their cars but put $50.00 a piece racing tires on their commuter bike that wont last 2,000 miles.

It depends. The ranges are huge.

Cars are definitely more costly to maintain and cost way more per mile of use.Depends on the car, bike, and individual in question. The vast majority of cost from cycling comes by way of food, and the problem w/ that is it's hard to minimize. Growing food is very hard and requires a suitable climate last I checked, so it's hard to cut costs there. I can get fuel for my used car for ~$1.50/gal delivered, so with two people fuel costs are above 1.5 cents per mile compared to the approximate one cent per mile assuming the cheapest of cheap foods. I like to eat better than road kill wieners and potatoes, so I'm probably at ~2-3 cents per mile from food. The cost to buy and keep up the vehicle isn't too bad provided the owner choose intelligently and isn't afraid to get their hands dirty. In fact, imo the largest part of owning a car that can't be *safely minimized (imo) is insurance. It all depends. Autos can be cheaper because food is $$$. That being said, ain't nothing under the sun that can beat an electric bicycle for cost, 'cept an electric velo. ;)

*I suppose I could go w/ the minimum, but since it covers me on foot, bike, or car, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Because they assume a new car driven 15k miles per year with full insurance and all work done by a shop. In other words, some richie rich who can afford to drop thousands of dollars on something shiney, like a new car, LCD whatevea, or $700 bike. ;)

Saying a bike is as expensive as a car is true, depending on the conditions, which I stated in the post.

Your new bike cost more than my road bike, my hardtail, my folder, my coaster, my car, and my truck combined. That, along with the high cost of food, is why I say that a cheap car used appropriately is cheaper than a bike.

Of course you can. Just because people can't control their appetite doesn't mean it magically comes from no where.

I'm not saying they do. But... the energy does come from somewhere, and that somewhere for most people is fossil fuel intensive, costly agribidness. It's analogous to Carbon trading, which doesn't reduce Carbon emissions much, if at all, but increases our feelgud.


Riddle me this......

How much is your car insurance per year?

also, triple A's estimate is the AVERAGE.....the rich dude your talking about is paying much, much more than that. In fact if they are trading every year they are losing 10-15,000 per year on just purchasing depreciation alone.

Tires for my truck were over $100.00 a piece.

I think it depends upon how expensive of bike tire you choose and how expensive of car tire you choose.

I know people who put the cheapest tires possible on their cars but put $50.00 a piece racing tires on their commuter bike that wont last 2,000 miles.

It depends. The ranges are huge.
I said 'car' tires not truck.
There are decent 60k mile 'car' tires for $75-90 compared to decent bike tires for $15-20, which the rear lasts 3k miles and the front is replaced or moved to rear every 15k or so.
How many $15 bike tires will one use vs. how many $80 car tires over 50k miles of use?
Roughly calculated about the same cost.

(I put $32 Conti Gatorskins on my bike and $90 Michellin Harmony (http://www.michelinman.com/tires/passenger-car-minivan/harmony/99066/#sizes-and-specifications)(80k) on my car. For me that is more $/mi for the bike.)

Al

There are 22,000 calories in a bushel of corn.

A bushel of corn costs $3.62

Thats .00016 cents per calorie or roughly .6 cents per mile.

Food is not expensive...it depends upon what you want to eat. If you insist on eating all organic peanut butter from the local hippie shop then you are better off driving.

How much is your car insurance per year?$300/year, max liability, bodily injury, etc... I think I'd have it even if I didn't have a car, since getting nailed while on a bike is prohibitively expensive w/o insurance. Like I said in my last post, I can skimp and probably get away w/ ~*$200/year, but it's worth it as a ped, cyclist, and driver to pay for the extra coverage.

*edit

But you can buy cheaper tires for a bike that run longer.

My wife has ritchey crossbite tires on her bike that are heavy as sin and look to be the thickest tire I have ever seen. I would not be surprised to see them go 7-8,000 miles and they cost about 12 dollars a piece from a local bike shop.

I know what your saying though.

Tires are one of the smallest expenses on a car. TRiple A estimates 50 some cents per mile for a sedan like a corrola and thats what im going with

$300/year, max liability, bodily injury, etc... I think I'd have it even if I didn't have a car, since getting nailed while on a bike is prohibitively expensive w/o insurance. Like I said in my last post, I can skimp and probably get away w/ ~$100/year, but it's worth it as a ped, cyclist, and driver to pay for the extra coverage.

Thats interesting because that is by far the lowest rate I have ever heard of. I will get your insurance policy when I get another car.

What exactly are you calling, "max liability"

One last thing on tires. It also depends on how one drives the vehicle: Hard acceleration, braking and cornering all put more wear on tires.

I ride hard and motor very lightly. So I get way less than average lifetime out of bike tires and longer than average out of car tires.

Al

Also after 2 years you would have paid much more than my initial bike purchase based only upon property taxes and insurance.

Care to rethink your argument?

One last thing on tires. It also depends on how one drives the vehicle: Hard acceleration, braking and cornering all put more wear on tires.

I ride hard and motor very lightly. So I get way less than average lifetime out of bike tires and longer than average out of car tires.

Al

I've started rotating my tires every thousand miles and I really like the way they wear that way.

Nice and even.

There are 22,000 calories in a bushel of corn.

A bushel of corn costs $3.62

Thats .00016 cents per calorie or roughly .6 cents per mile.

Food is not expensive...it depends upon what you want to eat. If you insist on eating all organic peanut butter from the local hippie shop then you are better off driving.Only if ya eat yer corn raw and can get that kind of pricing. I can get, at best, five ears for a buck, which is now where near a bushel for ~$3 AFAIK. And, even if I could, I can't live on raw corn alone. But, that being said, hook me up amigo, where can I get a bushel of corn delivered to my door for $3? The cheapest source of calories I've found are cheap franks, potatoes, etc... What's yer diet like hombre?

Thats interesting because that is by far the lowest rate I have ever heard of. I will get your insurance policy when I get another car.

What exactly are you calling, "max liability"Also after 2 years you would have paid much more than my initial bike purchase based only upon property taxes and insurance.

Care to rethink your argument?Property taxes? What are ya going on about? After two years I will have paid $600, assuming I don't drop insurance if I'm not using it, which is still less than yer $700 bike. Not to mention that 90%+ of the vehicle miles traveled are with two or more people. That being said, I'd get car insurance even if I was just biking because I get $250k/$500k bodily injury, $100k property damage, $100k/$300 uninsured motorist, etc... It's not too expensive because of the car and the driver. And cheaper than any private insurance plans given the coverage available. Since my riskiest or one of the riskier activities I do, is riding/driving on public roads, it's worth the cost imo. Like I said before, even if my car sat in the driveway 24/7/365 I'd still get it.

Only if ya eat yer corn raw and can get that kind of pricing. I can get, at best, five ears for a buck, which is now where near a bushel for ~$3 AFAIK. And, even if I could, I can't live on raw corn alone. But, that being said, hook me up amigo, where can I get a bushel of corn delivered to my door for $3? The cheapest source of calories I've found are cheap franks, potatoes, etc... What's yer diet like hombre?


Call your local feed store and they will deliver it.

Your making my point exactly. You cannot just consider food to be an energy source. Noone would want to live on corn alone unless you were already starving to death.

We all like the occasional dinner out or something that tastes good....we enjoy eating....we cook things that we think taste good. You simply cannot count it as strictly fuel for your cycling. Thats my point.

We're talking about a different type of corn because you wont be buying this by the ear.

Property taxes? What are ya going on about? After two years I will have paid $600, assuming I don't drop insurance if I'm not using it, which is still less than yer $700 bike. Not to mention that 90%+ of the vehicle miles traveled are with two or more people. That being said, I'd get car insurance even if I was just biking because I get $250k/$500k bodily injury, $100k property damage, $100k/$300 uninsured motorist, etc... It's not too expensive because of the car and the driver. And cheaper than any private insurance plans given the coverage available. Since my riskiest or one of the riskier activities I do, is riding/driving on public roads, it's worth the cost imo. Like I said before, even if my car sat in the driveway 24/7/365 I'd still get it.

Do you live in the USA? Your location says "no" and I do not know what that means.

Here in Missouri USA we have to pay personal property taxes on any vehicle that we own. We also have to keep them registered, insured, inspected and licensed. YOu seem to have hardly any of those expenses and all it takes to keep your car running is some miracle insurance policy you have for $300 per year.

Feed corn? Why not get grass off the back of the local gardener's truck? I bet it would be free... ;)
Food is expensive, so, anything that requires food, like cycling is expensive. Unless ya grow yer own for free. But... I don't and probably can't. Most don't. A bicycle is fairly efficient at low speeds, and an electric bicycle is the most cost effective form of transportation less an electric velo imo, but ya can't expect it to be cheap if the fuel source, yer food, is so expensive.

We don't have property taxes on vehicles here. Reg is mid thirties per year. If ya wanna compare cost per mile we can. What's yer diet like buddy?

My diet is pretty normal except I only eat wild game for meat.

Uh....you can digest feed corn but not grass. Thats why we do not eat grass....we are not ruminents.

Lets see I can buy a 2 liter of soda for about $0.80 cents and that has about 25 miles worth of calories in it. I could go on and on.

How can you live in America and say that food is expensive? My wife and I's grocery budget is $280.00 per month!!! That is 5 dollars per day per person to eat....and thats expensive!!!! GET A JOB!!!! ha ha

Seriously I would say that the average american has to work about 1.5 days to eat for a month.....where else in the world can you do that!! When else in history can you do that???

Food is not expensive and to say it is would mean that you are ignoring human history and reality.

I just looked at a bottle of vegetable oil. It has 12,000 calories in it and I while I do not remember I will say it costs $1.00....I have no idea.

Anyway that is .03 cents per mile. Not 3 cents per mile but 3/100ths of a cent per mile.

chug away if you want.

Feed corn? Why not get grass off the back of the local gardener's truck? I bet it would be free... ;)
Food is expensive, so, anything that requires food, like cycling is expensive. Unless ya grow yer own for free. But... I don't and probably can't. Most don't. A bicycle is fairly efficient at low speeds, and an electric bicycle is the most cost effective form of transportation less an electric velo imo, but ya can't expect it to be cheap if the fuel source, yer food, is so expensive.

We don't have property taxes on vehicles here. Reg is mid thirties per year. If ya wanna compare cost per mile we can. What's yer diet like buddy?

If you really want to compare the personal cost of using a car vs. using a bike, there's a whole host of costs that you're both ignoring. Try the substantial cost of health care for example. Bicyclists, especially those who don't have a car to rely on, are generally more fit. You'd have to evaluate your personal situation to decide if biking will lead to an increase in your fitness level, but I certainly didn't have an equivalent amount of cardio that I just gave up when I started biking to work. It's hard to quantify even the healthcare savings of being fit, let alone the psychological benefit of exercise as an integral part of your life. Feel free to try though!

As for me, I don't eat healthy enough to be driving a car around.

You would have to run away from reason at a full sprint to think it costs .52 cents per mile to ride a bicycle.

I mean, you could make it cost that much or more but it certainly does not have to.

I also cant wait to hear what his liability levels are (other than max) and see what company he uses to get this outrageous discount.

Thats really incredible. His total cost of car ownership is 300 dollars per year....thats incredible. Better call the guiness book of world records.

I just looked at a bottle of vegetable oil. It has 12,000 calories in it and I while I do not remember I will say it costs $1.00....I have no idea.

Anyway that is .03 cents per mile. Not 3 cents per mile but 3/100ths of a cent per mile.

chug away if you want.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm vegetable oil.

I spent more on bicycles this year than I did on my car. That's true most years. I suppose if I'd put all that bike money into the bank I could retire a millionaire. LMAO.

Lets see I can buy a 2 liter of soda for about $0.80 cents and that has about 25 miles worth of calories in it. I could go on and on.So that's what, 3 cents per mile? Dang, I average 3 cents per mile on diesel at 55mph.... Powered by pure sugar water eh? Balanced nutrition! ;) Like I said, cycling is expensive because of food, compared to alternatives. It's about the same as driving if ya use yer noggin', and way more expensive than an electric bike if ya use yer noggin'. Post up yer complete diet and we can do a comparison if ya wanna.

How can you live in America and say that food is expensive? My wife and I's grocery budget is $280.00 per month!!! That is 5 dollars per day per person to eat....and thats expensive!!!! GET A JOB!!!! ha haI'm not saying food alone is expensive. I'm saying food is expensive compared to other sources of energy for transportation. A cyclist spends as much as a frugal driver imo. The difference is there isn't as much variance between the cost for the cyclist, compared to the cost for the driver. But, on the frugal side, they cost about the same per mile. Look, if you wanna resort to childish remarks and ignore the physics and economics of personal transportation, that's fine, but it won't change a thing. :p

I just looked at a bottle of vegetable oil. It has 12,000 calories in it and I while I do not remember I will say it costs $1.00....I have no idea.

Anyway that is .03 cents per mile. Not 3 cents per mile but 3/100ths of a cent per mile.

chug away if you want.Oh, pure veggie oil. Delicious. A diet of that and feed corn would do wonders for yer body. Look. I ain't saying every driver is frugal. I am saying that if ya use yer noggin' driving can be as cheap as cycling. If you don't wanna, that's understandable. If thinking hurts ya it's O.K. I don't mind it, but I'm not expecting you to do what I do. ;)

You would have to run away from reason at a full sprint to think it costs .52 cents per mile to ride a bicycle.I never said that it costs that much to ride a bike. I said it costs me as much as the average cyclist to drive. Is there anything else you'd like to claim I said while I'm here? So meng, what's yer diet? Pure veggie oil and feed corn? With some 3 cent per mile soda tossed in? C'mon, we're doing a cost comparison right? :D

If you really want to compare the personal cost of using a car vs. using a bike, there's a whole host of costs that you're both ignoring. Try the substantial cost of health care for example. Bicyclists, especially those who don't have a car to rely on, are generally more fit. You'd have to evaluate your personal situation to decide if biking will lead to an increase in your fitness level, but I certainly didn't have an equivalent amount of cardio that I just gave up when I started biking to work. It's hard to quantify even the healthcare savings of being fit, let alone the psychological benefit of exercise as an integral part of your life. Feel free to try though!

As for me, I don't eat healthy enough to be driving a car around.That last sentence struck me as kinda odd since I had to eat healthy or bonk when I lived in the city and commuted ~70-100 miles per week. How much cycling do ya do? In any event, I agree that some cardio is good for health, however, according to a *study from the Netherlands I saw, only ~5 miles per day was needed for maximal benfit IIRC. I have no qualms w/ someone getting their exercise, however, I do thing it's silly to state that cycling is cheap when food is relatively expensive. It does get irritating when I see all the n3wbs hop in on the OMGZ cycling is so much cheaper and I'm saving t3h W3rldZ bandwagon. I've been posting on these forums for quite some time, and based on what I've seen, fossil fuel use in industrial civilization is endemic. We can't claim an environmental indulgence just by hopping on a bike. From the Carbon POV, we can cut our emissions associated w/ the transportation sector by a half to a quarter, which is nice, but it's only about a fifth of the total emissions. And, it requires fairly expensive housing, which limits the cuts we can make to the other 80% of our fossil fuel emissions.

What I'm trying to say is biking is biking. Cutting Carbon is just that, saving $ is saving $, etc... Mixing and matching generally doesn't pan out as well as we would like it to. Feel free ta search for my name on this sub-forum and check out/post up in some of my threads if ya like.

*If ya pester me I'm sure I can dig it up offa g00gl3.