i just saw racing at the first time at the san diego velodrome, and needless to say i was blown away. i've lived in san diego all my life and had no idea there was this type of exciting racing in my hometown. anyways, i was just curious if there are any racers out there and what type of race is their favorite. i plan on riding at the velodrome in the spring of next year, but i must say without doing any riding, it looks like the miss-n-out, or what i think they called the devil take the hindmost, looked the most fun. i liked the way some of those guys would stalk in the back only to sprint past a rider at the last second to avoid elimination

anyone else?

My favorite races are typically points races - I try to break away early and stay off the front as long as possible, getting as many points as I can. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Miss and outs can be really frustrating as I often find myself getting eliminated because I thought there were people behind me.

I also enjoy pursuits but only get to do them two or three times a year.

pursuit

madison

miss & outs are lots of fun though.

If you saw the racing at the San Diego 2-day madison, you probably saw me racing. I was pretty burned out so finished mid-pack in the miss & out, but generally do alright in them.

I like match sprints... especially ones that involve extended track stands. That race is as much mental as it is physical.

yea i was at the 2 day madison. what color team were you? that was a cool event, i'm just bummed i missed out on those intro classes and that i have to wait until march for the new season to learn.

we were yellow- my partner went down (along with the pink team) in the final madison friday night, and then I screwed up the timing on getting in to replace him- I tried to get in as they were at full sprint speed instead of waiting another lap-- and ended up half a lap down and chasing. Then Javier came in to replace John and confused me on the first exchange.

1.) Pursuit
2.) Points Race
2.) Kilo
4.) Team Pursuit

how do the changes work on madison? do you have to trade every lap or is it that you just have to trade, and do it when you need to?

1.) Pursuit
2.) Points Race
2.) Kilo
4.) Team Pursuit
At least one person didn't just make a list of what they are good at.

I'll go with match sprint. Keirins are fun too and unknown distances can be.

how do the changes work on madison? do you have to trade every lap or is it that you just have to trade, and do it when you need to?

Depends on your strategy. Every lap can't really happen though since you don't see you're partner that often.

Im a sprinter so of course Im going to say I like Match sprints. The thing is if you watch a serious one thsese days its just a glorified drag race. There isnt much tactic or slow racing anymore, partly to rule changes. Thats why when you see track standing at BIG races its been staged.

I might be the only sprinter who says he hates Kilo's, I still race em and do a decent job of it but I still hate them.

My favorite race is the Keirin. Untill you hit big races on 250's the style and distances change between tracks. It makes it kinda fun and new every time. Some of them you need a wheel, some you need to be in front, some you want to make the move in the final strait (right when everyone elese wants to also) Or on smaller tracks you wanna go from the gun. A Keirin is a glorified crapshoot, but like a match sprint you can play with a couple riders to get you into a position you want too.

Plus it reminds me of highschool rugby

how do the changes work on madison? do you have to trade every lap or is it that you just have to trade, and do it when you need to?

on a big flat 333 m track you can do maybe every lap and a quarter, or lap and a half, because you can basically stop when you come off, but you still need distance to slow down and speed up. At SD they let you hang on the rail, so you can keep it relatively short.

On a shorter, steeper track it's more like every 3 laps, and as mentioned it might vary depending on strategy--e.g. if one rider is a much better sprinter he might time the exchanges so he's always coming in for the sprint laps.

we were yellow- my partner went down (along with the pink team) in the final madison friday night, and then I screwed up the timing on getting in to replace him- I tried to get in as they were at full sprint speed instead of waiting another lap-- and ended up half a lap down and chasing. Then Javier came in to replace John and confused me on the first exchange.
Yea that was pretty ugly, it was amazing that John got back into the race at all......I guess his 6k bike is pretty strong.;)

At least one person didn't just make a list of what they are good at.

I'll go with match sprint. Keirins are fun too and unknown distances can be.Who said I wasn't good at them?

Who said I wasn't good at them?

You posted completely different types of races.

You posted completely different types of races.

Some people are good at different types of races. Look at Alejandro Valverde.

This is especially true on an amateur racing level where the skill levels vary wildly and very few people really specialize.

Some people are good at different types of races. Look at Alejandro Valverde.

This is especially true on an amateur racing level where the skill levels vary wildly and very few people really specialize.

Sure there are allrounders but they usually aren't good at both extremes.
Look at what everyone else posted and think how many people do you know who are good at(consistently win) both kilos and points races/pursuits who aren't just sandbagging.

Actually I just remembered that he is a junior so it's much more likely.

Yea that was pretty ugly, it was amazing that John got back into the race at all......I guess his 6k bike is pretty strong.;)

The other John...

My partner John bailed out and made Javier race. When the crash happened I was near the exit of the turn after the start finish and watched the pack go behind the tents and officials stand. then John didn't come out. I thought "WTF?". By the time I rolled forward to where I could see they were already picked up, but I couldn't really tell what had happened.

I'm a fan so I like everything - keirin, elimination, team pursuit, etc. When I ran DLV in Atlanta I created an even called the Unknown Points race. a 50-lap points race where the sprints where unannounced til the bell rang and cash primes on each one. It was a 333 track so sprints were normally 5 laps apart. in this case there were two 3 laps apart, two 4 laps apart, two 5 laps apart, two 6 laps apart and two 7 laps apart. If you got it right you could pick up two sprints in 3 laps. If you got it wrong you could be out there for 6 laps and get zilch.

My favorites are the ones where I actually succeed. My favorites are points racers, miss'n'outs, Madisons, and others where longevity matters.

All hail to the two-day San Diego Madison guys -- I was there racing in the non-madison C division, and might have had more fun watching y'all than I did racing myself. In fact, some of the races that Shaun Wallace "invented" were particularly fun, like the four-man Madison pursuit, which was a total blast to watch.

OP, can't wait to see you join the Tuesday festivities next year. Unfortunately, the C (entry-level) division doesn't do miss-and-outs. But that will b good motivation for you to move up to the B group!

All hail to the two-day San Diego Madison guys -- I was there racing in the non-madison C division, and might have had more fun watching y'all than I did racing myself. In fact, some of the races that Shaun Wallace "invented" were particularly fun, like the four-man Madison pursuit, which was a total blast to watch.

OP, can't wait to see you join the Tuesday festivities next year. Unfortunately, the C (entry-level) division doesn't do miss-and-outs. But that will b good motivation for you to move up to the B group!

I liked the team win and out too, where the first guy winning and getting out didn't get the team points, but just made the second rider eligible for the win when he finally did it.

As a spectator, sprints are the most fun to watch. I had a great time at Yoshi's hour record attempt at Kissena, but mostly because it took an hour and we drank beer and ate barbeque.

Madison, followed by sprinting and team pursuit.
But to be honest just as long as it's on a track I don't care :)

I enjoyed motorpaced racing more than anything, followed by derny racing. Keirins could be fun, but I was never too good at them and it was usually pretty nerve-wracking. Madisons were sort-of fun -- the closest thing to a video game you can get in real life, I always thought -- but it's also non-stop intervals which kind of put a damper on things, for me. I was usually too shelled to be having anything I could characterize as actual fun.

I hated the miss-and-out more than anything. I had more close calls in those races than in any other race, especially on a narrow track where everyone is trying to make a hole where there really isn't room for one. The only race where I ever got taken down from behind.

Match Sprints. The track stand is an art the the last 200= meters "go like He//" May the fastest rider win!

And also, Tandems on a velodrome...Nothin but fun ;-)

And also, Tandems on a velodrome...Nothin but fun ;-)

Says solocycles.

Between the Kierin and the Reverse Polish Devil are both fun.

As far as serious racing goes though, Kierin wins hands down.

"Reverse Polish Devil" sounds like a sex position.

I don't want to figure out what that would look like...

The race is pretty simple. First one across the line wins and is out, except that the points increase with every lap (compared with a regular reverse devil where the first person to cross the line on the first lap wins). The first person to cross the line on the last lap wins. It's tactically messy, and a lot of fun to race.

I don't want to figure out what that would look like...

The race is pretty simple. First one across the line wins and is out, except that the points increase with every lap (compared with a regular reverse devil where the first person to cross the line on the first lap wins). The first person to cross the line on the last lap wins. It's tactically messy, and a lot of fun to race.

Uh...what? The first person who crosses the line wins and is out, the first person who corrses the line on the last lap wins, and there are points?

By wins, I mean that lap. Every lap has more points. lap one, the winner gets 1 point, and doesn't race anymore. Lap 2 the winner gets 2 points, and doesn't race anymore etc. Until 3 people remain and the last lap is a sprint for the most points. The two who don't cross the line in first get no points.

Oh, you made that up. The whole pack would be trackstanding on the front straight. :p :rolleyes:

That race makes about as much sense as a submarine with a screen door.:p:D

Oh, you made that up. The whole pack would be trackstanding on the front straight. :p :rolleyes:

That's why there is a neutral lap. ;)

Snowball is fun, too. Scored the same way, but without the Win-n-Out twist. Win-n-Out hurts way worse.

Oh, you made that up. The whole pack would be trackstanding on the front straight. :p :rolleyes:

Only if they're all really well matched. I haven't done one, but it was suggested to me as a fun race by a guy who moved here from another track.

What (allegedly) typically happens is that people know about where they fit in the pecking order and aim for that place or a little above. It's pretty common for me to know whether I have a chance in a sprint against someone, and if I don't, I'm probably not going to wait for the final sprint. Especially if there are two of them.

Now that I think about it, it's like a win and out that favors sprinters heavily over endurance guys. In a regular win and out an endurance guy might try to get away early and hold a big enough gap to take the first sprint and win the race. In the reverse version, breakaways don't get you a better position except for the place that's up for grabs that lap.

And as I write that and think about it some more, there are a lot of interesting things that could happen, depending on how matched/mismatched people perceive themselves to be.

Actually, 20 lap match sprints are my favorites.

By wins, I mean that lap. Every lap has more points. lap one, the winner gets 1 point, and doesn't race anymore. Lap 2 the winner gets 2 points, and doesn't race anymore etc. Until 3 people remain and the last lap is a sprint for the most points. The two who don't cross the line in first get no points.

This has inspired me to create the most dangerous race possible.

I think we start with this but also pull the last person and give him no points. That way the front will be slowing down and the back speeding up at the same time. Any ideas how we could up the danger factor a bit more?

This has inspired me to create the most dangerous race possible.

I think we start with this but also pull the last person and give him no points. That way the front will be slowing down and the back speeding up at the same time. Any ideas how we could up the danger factor a bit more?

Run it like an Olympic sprint: 4 guys per team, lead rider drops off after each lap. That way, the guys on the front coming off are cooked and heading uptrack, while the guys in the back are fighting for position.

Now that I think about it, that sounds more like a Japanese Keirin...

We have a more dangerous event here in the UK :D
It's called the Bristow Devil (devil take the hindmost being the UK name for the "miss and out", Bristow because it was invented by a rider called Mark Bristow). Mark was a sprinter who got fed up of brainless, skill-less, endurance riders ;)who attacked off the front in a miss and out.
So the idea he came up with was this - nothing for the first rider over the line each time, last rider over the line is eliminated as usual. The difference is that the 2nd last rider over the line gets a point. The winner is the rider with most points at the end of the race. So there is no advantage in attacking off the front, everyone wants to be almost at the back - but not last!
In practice, the opening laps are very slow as everyone just rolls round and has a laugh, but when you get down to the last 3 or 4 riders it suddenly gets very quick again.
The event is only held once a year as a fun/demonstration event at a grass track event. Now, this is the important part, it's ludicrously dangerous as everyone is trying to chop each other up to get 2nd to last but not last. Because of this it is held with only 12 or so very experienced riders and should NOT be held on a hard track. Being on a grass track the speeds are slower and it's a softer surface to fall on!

PS.
It's great fun to ride, but an absolute nightmare to be a judge!

Run it like an Olympic sprint: 4 guys per team, lead rider drops off after each lap. That way, the guys on the front coming off are cooked and heading uptrack, while the guys in the back are fighting for position.

Now that I think about it, that sounds more like a Japanese Keirin...

even better let's do it madison style and penalize teams where one rider does more then two consecutive laps.

Any ideas how we could up the danger factor a bit more?

Turn the pit into a moat, fill it with alligators. Cross the blue line, you're eaten alive.

The old Olympic track in Carson tried to make ends meet by hosting commercials and films. One of the films ("Executive Power" or "Executive Decision"; whichever one didn't have Kurt Russell in it) had a scene with a sniper in the stands who shoots a guy off of a bicycle. That always seemed like an effective way to deal with the "I was not the last guy!" deals in the miss and outs.

To race: Points score
To watch: Sprint
To race when I'm unfit: Sprint

1. Points race
2. Scratch
3. Match sprint although I only did 2 last season.

Least favorites... unknown distance and point-a-lap's. Unknown distance seems more like luck than anything to me, either that or my tactics just aren't good for them, and point-a-lap I get stuck off somewhere in 2nd/3rd by the finish line.

Kilo and Pursuit. The only track events I've done and one of the 2 will end up being my focus as the years roll on.

kilo starts, to watch
match sprints, to do,
madison changes, to practise

My faorites are match sprint, keirin, scratch race and madison, all to race, watch or practice. The most fun I ever had was doing a coed madison at the old Dominguez Hills velodrome. My partner was a masters world champ pursuiter who was absolutely fearless, and only weighed 104 pounds. I was a sprinter, and weighed 160. I could toss her like a rag doll on the exchanges, and then she would just hold on for four laps. Her toss, given the weight difference, was not so great, in fact it just about stopped her in her tracks. But then again, I was the sprinter, and was supposed to have a jump!

The funniest thing though happened one night when I came around turn four expecting an exchange but did not see her. As I entered turn 1, I looked up and saw her hanging at the rail. She had slipped down and was hanging by one hand. I would have laughed myself silly except it meant I had to stay in for two more laps until should could get herself righted. By then I was totally cooked and our race was over. I still smile when I remeber the look on her face as I passed her!