Just finish the upgrade of my Dual Cross 300 light head.
Replaced the Luxeon led with Cree Q5 stars ordered from

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

Job took about 30 minutes with a bit of soldering which is a bit messy given access is limited and the contacts on the Led stars are galvanised so solder doesn't adhere as well.

Some points

1) Use flux from a pen on the Cree Q5 contacts and let completely dry, otherwise solder will not adhere to the contacts.

2) Easier to cut old wires connecting the luxeon stars as solder joints are covered with some sort of epoxy. There is plenty of wire inside the casing to extend the leads. Then just unscrew the 2 screws holding the Luxeon star to the heatsink.

3) Put a drop of solder on Cree contacts before attaching the led stars to the silver heat sink.

4) Attach stars to heat sink via the 2 screws and then feed connecting wires through heat sink.

5) Add a drop of solder to leads

6) Solder + and - wires by joining both drops of solder.

7) Clean inner surface of main lenses and Cree lens


Light is definitely brighter using both the Ni-MH battery and the Li-Ion

So for US 20.00 its definitely worth it.

I'll post some comparison photos later in the week, between the old luxeon light head and the new Cree version.

How much additional heat, if any, is created by the more powerful LED? If there is additional heat, have you tested it adequately to determine if it will tolerate the additional heat?

What do you mean by both Ni-MH and Li-ion batteries?

How much additional heat, if any, is created by the more powerful LED? If there is additional heat, have you tested it adequately to determine if it will tolerate the additional heat?

What do you mean by both Ni-MH and Li-ion batteries?

There doesn't appear to be any additional heat, the heat sinks in the Dual cross are very large and should handle it no problems. I have had the Cree's on for 15 minutes will no abnormal heat issues. On the bike the heat should dissipate effectively. I'm not over volting the Leds, so the dual cross standard specifications should allow the Cree's to run just like the Luxeon's

I have 2 Dual Cross lights one with the Ni-Mh battery and one with the Li-ion, I just modified one of the light heads.

Cool Upgrade!

I dig cleanly executed custom home projects :beer:

Kleng?

Want to hear what Grun has to say?

Nice job, Kleng....appreciate the update - especially the help with the soldering.

How's the beam? I know the Cree's tend to be a more concentrated point light, which can cause more of a spot (as compared to a Luxeon or Seoul). Some comparison beam shots with your stock DualCross would be kewl.

I've got 2 Seoul P4-Ubins and 2 Cree Q5's coming from Dealextreme.....I'm torn on which ones to use for my DualCross upgrade.

Kleng?

Want to hear what Grun has to say?

Grun

Yes I do, it was your advice and Zero Enigma which point me in the right direction as to what stars to get.

Grun

Yes I do, it was your advice and Zero Enigma which point me in the right direction as to what stars to get.

Grun: You took an existing model, to which the company upgraded, and the company won't do anything to help you. You go out and make something even brighter than the COMMERCIAL DUALCROSS PRO. You took a finger to them-the company. Booooo-yahhhhh!!!

Q5>SSC that Cygolite offers.

So now your older model is even stronger than the newer one out there!

:D:D:D <------that is all i have to say to you kleng - tiger

Nice job, Kleng....appreciate the update - especially the help with the soldering.

How's the beam? I know the Cree's tend to be a more concentrated point light, which can cause more of a spot (as compared to a Luxeon or Seoul). Some comparison beam shots with your stock DualCross would be kewl.

I've got 2 Seoul P4-Ubins and 2 Cree Q5's coming from Dealextreme.....I'm torn on which ones to use for my DualCross upgrade.

The soldering is the challenging bit, I couldn't reproduce the quality of the factory job.
I think the Dual Cross lenses design will standardised the light pattern, so the concentration of the led won't really matter.

I've got no experience with the Seoul P4, maybe Grun or Zero Enigma have an opinion.

Grun: You took an existing model, to which the company upgraded, and the company won't do anything to help you. You go out and make something even brighter than the COMMERCIAL DUALCROSS PRO. You took a finger to them-the company. Booooo-yahhhhh!!!

Q5>SSC that Cygolite offers.

So now your older model is even stronger than the newer one out there!

:D:D:D <------that is all i have to say to you kleng - tiger

Grun

I'm not sure if its as bright as the pro, as I have no way of comparing. I can't figure out how many mA are driving the light at full power, I think it would only be 350mA. Do you know ?

Thanks

Here are the comparison photos

Top photo - New Cree Q5 on the left and Luxeon 5w on the right. (both are Cygolite Dual 300 light heads)
As you can see Crees have a wider throw of light due to the increased intensity being magnified by the standard Dual Cross lenses.
Outside this translates into a wider and brighter beam.

So I'm very happy with the 20.00 investment.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/lannes2007/IMG_7243.jpg

Bottom photo- Luxeon 5w on left and Cree Q5 on right.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/lannes2007/IMG_7245.jpg

After 15mins new Crees are running slightly cooler than the Luxeons.

Sweet....I'm going with the Q5's for my DualCross. I'll save the Seouls for a future light build. What I should do is try and find another DualCross head. They'll probably be cheap this winter, since the Pro model has been released. A definite easy upgrade and bargain.

As for the Seoul's - I've built a triple from scratch based on this (http://myfwyc.org/bikeled/DIY_LED_Bike_Lighting_Guide.html) DIY guide. During my many hours of research, I've found that the Seoul seems to work well with Luxeon optics and reflectors. It's basically a direct replacement, whereas the Cree have a different pattern. The DualCross seems deep, with optics/reflectors that may favor a more forward throw. I think your beam shots show that may be the case.

This thread has been very helpful....thanks. I'm looking forward to this upgrade mod.

Great job!

Excellent job.

My question has to do with how many hours of runtime would you get on a single charge..

Yes, excellent job on the mod! I'd like to see some comparison projection shots if possible.

As I look into it a little, it appears that the current draw for the Cree is similar to the Luxeon - just that you get more light out of it.

I did some rough calculations - with the Luxeon, you get about 20 lumens/watt. With the the Cree, you get closer to 65 lumens/watt. I was reading on the web that Cree hopes to have 80 lumens/watt available by the end of the year.

I have read reports that in the lab they have gotten 130 lumens/watt, and that some believe that 200 lumens/watt is possible.

http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1189687350946

DURHAM, N.C., SEPTEMBER 13, 2007 — Cree, Inc. (Nasdaq: CREE), a leader in LED lighting components, today announced it has achieved R&D results of 129 lumens per watt for a cool-white LED and 99 lumens per watt for a warm-white LED. These are the best results reported for packaged, high-power LEDs, and they clearly indicate that Cree is extending its lead in solid-state lighting through its continued investments in LED technology....In coming years, such investments in core LED technology could lead to products that replace traditional light sources in all commercial applications. Customers may see these technology advancements in commercial products within 12 to 24 months.

Excellent job.

My question has to do with how many hours of runtime would you get on a single charge..

I don't expect there to be any significant difference in the runtime between the Cree's and the Luxeons

Completed my Q5 upgrade to my DualCross. All I can say is WOW, mega light. I find there are some of those Cree anomolies using the Cygolite-Lumiled optics. Definite hot center spot and halos that weren't as evident with the Luxeons. I bet using the Seoul U-bins, though less powerful, would provide a more balanced beam. I'm not complaining, this is definetly going to vaporize any trail varmints that cross my path.

I'm not sure what current the DC is pushing on high, but the Q5's seem brighter (and a bit bluer) than my homemade triple Seoul U-bins running at 1 amp. Very impressive.

Do you know if anyone has done an upgrade to a Light and Motion Vega or how difficult or practical it would be?

Do you know if anyone has done an upgrade to a Light and Motion Vega or how difficult or practical it would be?

What made the dual cross upgrade simple was that the standard sized luxeon led stars were just attached to the heat sinks by screws and that the connecting wires were just soldered on. Are you able to disassemble the Vega to see if it uses a led star or some proprietory led setup ?

Kleng, how is the light working for you?

A few of my riding group may pick up the 300...I'd like to upgrade it for them if they want to later..

Kleng, how is the light working for you?

A few of my riding group may pick up the 300...I'd like to upgrade it for them if they want to later..

no problems so far, runs like the original except brighter, run times about the same although I haven't run the battery completely down

I can also say after 2 nice rides that the DC runs well with the Cree's. I have not run the battery all the way down either...but, based on the odd battery meter light, it seems to show the same run times (which is what I would expect). Lumens are much, much better - more in-line with my triple Seoul.

Grun

Yes I do, it was your advice and Zero Enigma which point me in the right direction as to what stars to get.

I'll take my traditional 10% cut or a LED to try out.

My LED experience is only with SSC P4 U-bin and Luxeon III red-orange. The SSC P4's are bloodly bright as they are and staring at them or getting beamed in the eyes with 5+15 degree lenses leaves to dazzled for about 5 mins. I really would like to try the Cree Q5 and see how that LED is. One item I'm really itching to try is the Luxeon tri-rebel 540lm @ 700mA which is the size on one normally star but uses 9.45vf. OMG I must be insane for thinking this up but having 2 x tri-rebels in a dual cube LED helmet light will be so awesome. Not sure if the heat will melt the joints or something but you'd better be going 400W for the whole ride. :D

Sir which is brighter? the Cree Q5 or the Seoul P4? I'm planning to buy but i can't decide which one because i want to have a bright light. I'll also install it on my dualcross300. Thank you

Cree Q5

Cree Q5

FWIW, I have a pair of Cree LEDs sitting at home waiting to be installed. Just haven't found the time yet. Need to find my soldering iron too, I guess.

After thinking about this some, I am inclined to think that these things might actually run a little *cooler* than the LEDs that we are replacing them with. Let me explain my reasoning.

The old Luxeon bulbs got something like 20 lumens/watt. A lumen is 1.46 milliwatt of visible light, so in effect the thing is converting about 3% of the electrical energy into visible light. Any electrical energy that isn't converted into light is converted into heat - 97%.

The Cree LEDs get something closer to 60 lumens/watt - thus about 9% of the electrical energy is converted into light - the remaining 91% is converted into heat.

So if you assume that both have similar I-V curves, and draw similar amounts of electrical power (which isn't guaranteed to be 100% true, but is probably approximately true), then the Cree will run slightly cooler.

FWIW, I have a pair of Cree LEDs sitting at home waiting to be installed. Just haven't found the time yet. Need to find my soldering iron too, I guess.

After thinking about this some, I am inclined to think that these things might actually run a little *cooler* than the LEDs that we are replacing them with. Let me explain my reasoning.

The old Luxeon bulbs got something like 20 lumens/watt. A lumen is 1.46 milliwatt of visible light, so in effect the thing is converting about 3% of the electrical energy into visible light. Any electrical energy that isn't converted into light is converted into heat - 97%.

The Cree LEDs get something closer to 60 lumens/watt - thus about 9% of the electrical energy is converted into light - the remaining 91% is converted into heat.

So if you assume that both have similar I-V curves, and draw similar amounts of electrical power (which isn't guaranteed to be 100% true, but is probably approximately true), then the Cree will run slightly cooler.


As noted by kleng in earlier post:

After 15mins new Crees are running slightly cooler than the Luxeons.

FWIW, I have a pair of Cree LEDs sitting at home waiting to be installed. Just haven't found the time yet. Need to find my soldering iron too, I guess.

Just finished the upgrade. I had the Cygolite dualcross 200. All pretty straightforward. I took the thing outdoors and it seemed pretty bright - hard to compare against the old bulbs though. I will have to take the bike out for a night ride sometime to see how it works on a pitch-black trail.

I just finished upgrading my cygolite dualcross 300 with Cree Q5. I had a problem when i first fired it up. one of the capacitors got fried.. I dont know whats the reason but all connections are correct. I change one capacitor that was fried then i fired it up again it was bright. Did anybody incountered this problem? Luckily theres a shop that has a same value as the orig. capacitor.

I just finished upgrading my cygolite dualcross 300 with Cree Q5. I had a problem when i first fired it up. one of the capacitors got fried.. I dont know whats the reason but all connections are correct. I change one capacitor that was fried then i fired it up again it was bright. Did anybody incountered this problem? Luckily theres a shop that has a same value as the orig. capacitor.

Oooch...

Hmmmmm, I'm pretty sure there is a boost-type current driver in the DC (at least the Li-ion is). If you have any connection issues (opens), the driver may burn itself up trying to achieve the desired output. It also just could have been just a weak capacitor. The Cree's Vf is a smidge higher than the Lumiled, and that might have been just enough to push the weak cap over the edge.

I'm just throwing some assumptions out there.....

Thank you HAWSEMAN for the reply. I also tried putting a 5 watt- 150Mf capacitor and it still burned.. :cry:

But i change it to a 25 watt 220Mf and it solved my problem no more fried caps. hehehehe! Luckily the replacement capacitor was able to fit the back housing of the light.

Thank you again. :)

I just picked up a DualCross 200, and it has a note inside the box that says it has been upgraded to a "2nd generation" LED that is 50% brighter.

I opened it up, and sure enough they are now using SEOUL P4's

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9885/cimg0948gm8.jpg

So it would seem that Cygolite is doing the upgrade for you now.

I just picked up a DualCross 200, and it has a note inside the box that says it has been upgraded to a "2nd generation" LED that is 50% brighter.

I opened it up, and sure enough they are now using SEOUL P4's

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9885/cimg0948gm8.jpg

So it would seem that Cygolite is doing the upgrade for you now.

Interesting that they would pick this instead of the Cree Q5's. Supposedly the Cree LEDs are a bit brighter, but I gather that they are close, and both are quite a bit brighter than the Luxeon.

Interesting that they would pick this instead of the Cree Q5's. Supposedly the Cree LEDs are a bit brighter, but I gather that they are close, and both are quite a bit brighter than the Luxeon.
ssc are half price at same lm/watt of cree. ssc u-bin for $5.50, q5 for $10

I just did this upgrade last night, and I gotta say, WOW, the new light is easily 2x as bright, with a LOT larger beam. Easily the best 20 bucks I've ever spent. I'd also like to say that this was my first successful DIY involving solder of the electrical nature (I've done my share of copper pipe stuff, but never had any luck with electronics) it was very cool to do it and have it work! Thanks to all here for the info! Deal Extreme is awesome, by the way.

I just did this upgrade last night, and I gotta say, WOW, the new light is easily 2x as bright, with a LOT larger beam. Easily the best 20 bucks I've ever spent. I'd also like to say that this was my first successful DIY involving solder of the electrical nature (I've done my share of copper pipe stuff, but never had any luck with electronics) it was very cool to do it and have it work! Thanks to all here for the info! Deal Extreme is awesome, by the way.


Glad to hear it, and welcome aboard. There is an ego-boosting feeling when you take on a project as rewarding as this.

I just did this upgrade last night, and I gotta say, WOW, the new light is easily 2x as bright, with a LOT larger beam. Easily the best 20 bucks I've ever spent. I'd also like to say that this was my first successful DIY involving solder of the electrical nature (I've done my share of copper pipe stuff, but never had any luck with electronics) it was very cool to do it and have it work! Thanks to all here for the info! Deal Extreme is awesome, by the way.Better late than never. I finally upgraded my Cygolite DualCross 300 with the new Cree Q5 Stars. Since my soldering skills aren't so good, a good friend of mine did the work for me. This upgrade is everything all the other posters have talked about. I'm loving it.:D

Better late than never. I finally upgraded my Cygolite DualCross 300 with the new Cree Q5 Stars. Since my soldering skills aren't so good, a good friend of mine did the work for me. This upgrade is everything all the other posters have talked about. I'm loving it.:D

That's the only good thing about this Daylight Savings Time switch we just had in PA, I get to use my nice bright light for about 20 min in the morning now, and MAN it's a lot brighter with the upgrade. LOVE IT.

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but ... anyone try, or even think about, doing a similar upgrade with the newer P7 emitters? They are supposedly a ton brighter even than these Q5s.

Thanks!

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but ... anyone try, or even think about, doing a similar upgrade with the newer P7 emitters? They are supposedly a ton brighter even than these Q5s.

Thanks!

Don't bother, lens won't fit. P7 has a bigger footprint and p7 = 4 Seoul P4 in one. Get Cree XR-E R2 bininstead, that's the upgrade of XRE Q5 bin.

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but ... anyone try, or even think about, doing a similar upgrade with the newer P7 emitters? They are supposedly a ton brighter even than these Q5s.

Thanks!

FWIW, my headlight died. One of the solder joints came off, and the driver toasted itself :cry:. It was good for close to a year though. Funny that...

ok I just happened to be bored and looking on this site and this caught my eye. I have the first gen light and motion vega with the lexeon bulb. Supposed to be rated at 85 lumens. From what I see a cree q5 should fit right in. So since this is out of warranty anyways and I should probably replace the internal batteries should I do the LED upgrade?