We have the same problem with the wannabe pelotons here in California too.

Not everyone who dresses like an off-duty hairstylist is rude, and we need you to provide a positive example. Sure, you'll run into rude drivers who have been infuriated by the obnoxious pelotons, but after seeing you riding courteously in your FABulous outfit, drivers soon get the message that not all cyclists are mobs of jerks.
Peace!
-CCinC

I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumesDo they wear capes?

^^hehe

The speed gain by wearing skin tights only amounts to mere seconds or a few minutes in miles of riding.

Of course it's dependent on speed, but @ 37 km/h a one piece skin suit will result in 29 seconds saved over 40 km.

But an aero helmet will give you 47 seconds, taking off a bottle and cage will give you 26 seconds, and a disc wheel in front will provide 66 seconds.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/aerodynamics.htm

This thread reminds me of the one where a woman wrote her local paper in Illinois about this, and also complained about the lycra showing too much. The comments about cyclists wearing "kit" reveal less about the cyclists and more about how "uptight" the person commenting on it is.

:oI'm sorry I started this.

Why can't I get this many responses when I need help?

I don't want to say anything else.

Peace:)

:oI'm sorry I started this.

Why can't I get this many responses when I need help?

I don't want to say anything else.

Peace:)

Don't worry about it. Just wear what you want and ignore the people that think you have some kind of influence on other cyclists.

when automobile racers race or train, for the most part they don't use the public roads. Bike racers do. and they look and act like angry ****wads while they're doing it. they deserve all the scorn they get.
Where have you ever seen cyclists using the road in the larger area of where we live in the way you describe?

I've lived here over 15yrs. and never once seen angry ***wads of bike racers that deserve any kind of scorn for their behavior. Never took any note of any of them as I could always quickly pass. The only behavior I see regularly that I've taken note of is cyclists dangerously cowering on the extreme far shoulder, up against the gutter/curb usually.

The only possible road I am aware of that this could happen on is the climb up South Mountain, a narrow twisty road posted at 15mph. The only reason any one will travel on this road is recreation.

And you bet you ass that motorists are using the road for training - not directly, but driving to the gym, to the trailhead, to the soccer fields, etc.

Al

Where have you ever seen cyclists using the road in the larger area of where we live in the way you describe?

I've lived here over 15yrs. and never once seen angry ***wads of bike racers that deserve any kind of scorn for their behavior. Never took any note of any of them as I could always quickly pass. The only behavior I see regularly that I've taken note of is cyclists dangerously cowering on the extreme far shoulder, up against the gutter/curb usually.

The only possible road I am aware of that this could happen on is the climb up South Mountain, a narrow twisty road posted at 15mph. The only reason any one will travel on this road is recreation.

And you bet you ass that motorists are using the road for training - not directly, but driving to the gym, to the trailhead, to the soccer fields, etc.

Al

Commenting on the OPs situation, Al. not mine.

If Wonder Woman who (in my version of reality) looks like Linda Carter was to ride in Illinois, would she ride an invisible bicycle? If so, it would be appropriate for her attire to attract attention otherwise a car would hit her. Also, her lack of a cape is much more sensible than other superheros attire. No, she would not wear a helmet.

If Wonder Woman who (in my version of reality) looks like Linda Carter was to ride in Illinois, would she ride an invisible bicycle? If so, it would be appropriate for her attire to attract attention otherwise a car would hit her. Also, her lack of a cape is much more sensible than other superheros attire. No, she would not wear a helmet.
Of course she wouldn't wear a helmet. Her mother was the Queen of the Amazons, silly. :rolleyes: I'd be concerned about her Magic Lasso getting caught in the spokes, though.

I always like to compare someone who commutes in the racing jersey and shorts like a person commuting to work in their car wearing a full nascar racing fireproof suit.

I used to work with a guy who would commute about 3 miles to work in that outfit and even take off the helmet and put on those caps with the tiny bill after arriving to work.

I'm not going to share my opinion of that.

I always like to compare someone who commutes in the racing jersey and shorts like a person commuting to work in their car wearing a full nascar racing fireproof suit.

I used to work with a guy who would commute about 3 miles to work in that outfit and even take off the helmet and put on those caps with the tiny bill after arriving to work.

I'm not going to share my opinion of that.

Not really a fair assessment. I commute in full cycling kit. My commute is 32 miles each way. So the clothing has excellent function, considering a round trip is akin to a 100k ride.

Now granted someone who kits up for a 3 mile ride, well that is just silly.

-D

Derath

You ride that 5 days per week?

Should they complain ? Maybe not....but again, you and HH only deal in hypotheticals, not reality.

Hmmm, not sure how to interpret this. I ride on the road usually at least 5 days a week. Some days, I end up holding up a few motorists for a little longer than they or I would like. It happens. I'm going much slower than they are on roads without passing lane and with terrible sightlines. I do my best to help them move along. That's my reality.

If one is truly interested in building a workable relationship with car drivers one must
give a little too....
I worked at MBNA in Wilmington and would get hemmed up behind large groups of roadies
who would militantly block old Rt. 100 regularly on my way back to West Chester.
Im a cyclist and felt like riding my horn the whole time I was behind them.

I have to ask (as I often wonder about those who get stuck behind me on 25mph roads on the way to work and get all upset about a short delay) why, if getting stuck behind a slow moving vehicle without a lane to pass in is such a huge burden for you to deal with, would you choose to travel on route 100, a hilly, twisting road with maybe a 1/4 mile of legal passing area that you know is often used by slow moving vehicles? That same road also commonly experiences 5-10 minute backups at one stop signed intersection and I'll be the first to tell you that it has nothing to do with cyclists. There are plenty of other roads in the area that you'd be hard pressed to find a slow moving vehicle using.

As to this "militant blocking", what kind of a delay are we talking about? A few minutes, max? How often did you get stuck behind people who would only drive at the speed limit on that road or even under it by a few mph? Did that bother you so much too?

Although I didnt, I can certainly understand someone elses frustration at suffering such rudeness and anti-social behaviour. It goes beyond a cycling issue into a decency and consideration issue. If you cant be considerate of other people you cant expect them to be that of you. That goes for bike riders too, not just cars. I am being totally non-antagonistical here... Just for the sake of my own edification....why is it such a HUGE problem for staunch VCers to abdicate to a car on any level ?

I have to laugh at how upset you are about this. You encountered slow moving vehicle operators using the full width of the lane on a very narrow country road that you chose to use instead of taking one of the wider, higher speed major arterials that go between Wilmington and West Chester. Just because it isn't socially accepted by some for cyclists to use the roads at all, you, a cyclist, start calling their behavior rude and anti-social. How antisocial is it to drive around in a car behind glass and steel? (Not that I personally see anything wrong with it but Lem seems to think riding a bike in a legal manner is antisocial so I want to see where he draws the line).

Why do you assume that a VC (or any cyclist who choose to not hug the edge of the road when using a narrow lane) won't ever abdicate to a motorist just because the cyclists you've encountered on narrow country roads with terrible passing sightlines didn't allow you to dangerously pass them? That's what you wanted, right? It's impossible on that road to pass a cyclist with decent clearance without going over the centerline a significant amount.

Not really a fair assessment. I commute in full cycling kit. My commute is 32 miles each way. So the clothing has excellent function, considering a round trip is akin to a 100k ride.

Now granted someone who kits up for a 3 mile ride, well that is just silly.

-DBut not as silly as the motorist that complains about how much time he was delayed (10 seconds) by cyclist during his 3 mile motor commute.:p

You guys are reminding me of something.

Tonight I drove 150 miles from my dads farm back to my place and the car I rented had an "average speed" reading on it like a bike computer.

I averaged 45 mph. At one point cars were piling up behind me because there was not a good place to pace and I thought, "I even slow down cars when i'm a cager like they are!"

It was a good feeling!!! I did not actually drive 45 but you know how "averages" go...they are always slower then you were driving most of the time.

Hmmm, not sure how to interpret this. I ride on the road usually at least 5 days a week. Some days, I end up holding up a few motorists for a little longer than they or I would like. It happens. I'm going much slower than they are on roads without passing lane and with terrible sightlines. I do my best to help them move along. That's my reality


I cant make my point any clearer than this.....
So far it has been misinterprited by everyone bashing me here. But, I expect this.
My choice of Rt.100 was based on a many, many different routes to get to Wilm. in
the quickest manner possible. As you would be aware,they all were brutal. Taking
100 meant the differnce of 20-30 minutes. Yes, really. Lites on 202 were backed up
for 4 changes, at least. That being said.....Do you think its acceptable for someone
in lets say a mini-van, to block both lanes ? This wouldnt bother you at all ?
What bothers people, and my opinion too, is that cyclist who CAN single file up,
should. The reality we have to work with is a very irate public who dont accept being
held up for even 3 seconds. Of course this is ridiculous, but it is what we suffer as
you well know by your recent unfortunate meeting with a policeman. Add to this
that poeple arent happy about someone elses recreation holding them up from getting home.
If the recreational cyclist would let the string of cars go by, it would go a long way
to creating a more harmonious relationship between drivers and cyclists. Hemming
them up, no matter how long, when you can just as easily let them by, isnt going
to do that. You cannot tell someone that "what Im doing is more important than what you
are doing, so yer gonna have to wait" and expect it to go over well.
You cannot legislate human nature.
On a final note, when I would ride my motorcycle down 100 I would motion for the
suicidal sportbike squids to SLOW DOWN because they were about to meet a group of
bicyclists around the next corner.

I cant make my point any clearer than this.....
So far it has been misinterprited by everyone bashing me here. But, I expect this.
My choice of Rt.100 was based on a many, many different routes to get to Wilm. in
the quickest manner possible. As you would be aware,they all were brutal. Taking
100 meant the differnce of 20-30 minutes. Yes, really. Lites on 202 were backed up
for 4 changes, at least. That being said.....Do you think its acceptable for someone
in lets say a mini-van, to block both lanes ? This wouldnt bother you at all ?
What bothers people, and my opinion too, is that cyclist who CAN single file up,
should. The reality we have to work with is a very irate public who dont accept being
held up for even 3 seconds. Of course this is ridiculous, but it is what we suffer as
you well know by your recent unfortunate meeting with a policeman. Add to this
that poeple arent happy about someone elses recreation holding them up from getting home.
If the recreational cyclist would let the string of cars go by, it would go a long way
to creating a more harmonious relationship between drivers and cyclists. Hemming
them up, no matter how long, when you can just as easily let them by, isnt going
to do that. You cannot tell someone that "what Im doing is more important than what you
are doing, so yer gonna have to wait" and expect it to go over well.
You cannot legislate human nature.
On a final note, when I would ride my motorcycle down 100 I would motion for the
suicidal sportbike squids to SLOW DOWN because they were about to meet a group of
bicyclists around the next corner.

My point that you seem to be missing is that riding single file on route 100 doesn't make it so that motorists in normal sized vehicles can pass without having to cross the centerline. Even a close pass will have their left tires going over the middle of the road. If they are doing this with oncoming traffic or around a blind curve or over a hill crest (a common occurrence on that road), they are creating a very dangerous situation, especially given the stupid speeds some people drive at on that road. As a cyclist, in order to protect your own butt, the safest thing to do is to make it as clear as possible that you do not want motorists forcing their way by if the coast isn't clear. The best way to do that is to take up the whole lane (I've never seen cyclists blocking both lanes on that road. If you have, then I'd agree that you've seen some idiots). Now, by law, if motorists haven't been able to pass for a while and are starting to back up considerably (the law says 5 or more vehicles), then the cyclists should find a safe spot to pull over (and there aren't many of those places on rt. 100 since there is no shoulder, ever). But, this doesn't seem to be what you are asking them to do which is why I am taking issue with what you are saying.

To say that because some motorists are impatient pricks is a reason to ride in a dangerous manner is ridiculous to me. Those motorists ARE the reason to ride in a lane controlling manner.

By the way, you've made my point about using rt. 100 instead of the other roads. You are taking what could be considered a shortcut at the expense of the possibility of encountering slow moving traffic on a road where it is almost impossible to pass. Even still, you generally saved 20-30 minutes as you've said. So why are you complaining about those cyclists again?

As a Lycra wearer, I might resemble those riders you're referring to, but I don't block the Motorists ;) Don't be so quick to judge, my friend, the "Superhero costume" as you put it, is just a tool for comfort and safety (Wicking, abrasion resistance, and visibility).
+ 1,000,000!

First off let me say I have a passion for bike riding. I ride every day.
But I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes while rudely blocking up traffic.

I live in Illinois, close to St. Louis. People come here on weekend rides, acting like they own the place, and all they do is make folks mad by riding 2-3 abreast down the narrow roads. Just this morning I came upon a small pack of riders who were climbing and decending a rather large hill. Its the only road around for several miles and everyone has to use it. The bikers were riding in groups, clogging up the road, and refusing to pull over and let cars and trucks pass. I ride the very same roads and I don't have a problem getting out of the way for vehicles.

I don't dress like you all because I don't want to be associated with the likes of riders like you.

Illinois law says that you shall ride single file, and that vehicles shall provide a 3 foot clearance. Common courtesy says that you keep out of folks' way when they are trying to go about their business.

People around here have a very low opinion of bicycle riders and after the not-so-uncommon experience like I had today, I can see why.

It seems that every time I turn around, some guy in non-cycling gear (jean and a t-shirt) is always riding either against the traffic flow or on the sidewalk. I will never wear jeans a t-shirt beacuse I don't want to be like those guys. - (Ludicous argument, isn't it)

Dr. Pavlov got his dogs to associate the sound of a bell with food. Aren't you doing the same thing with Lycra and road cyclists? What does one really have to do with the other. I will go one step furter, because you make this association with a people group (cyclists), isn't it prejudice?

Why don't you just set a prositive example by riding safely and courteously on the road and be satisfied with that - regardless of what you are wearing? It makes us law-abiding, lycra-wearing cyclist look bad. Don't blame all of us for a few bad apples. It's not fair.

:oI'm sorry I started this.

Why can't I get this many responses when I need help?

I don't want to say anything else.

Peace:)

I will see you on the road. I presume you will be the "Fred" in cut-offs, t-shirt and canvas-topped sneakers?

Be sure to wave "HI!!"

I will help you out.......

while at a recent meeting with three local biking groups and discussing negative motorists/bike interactions two of the three group leaders indicated that they would stop at stop signs and ask others in their group to do so.

The one group leader in lycra said that he for damn sure was not going to stop at a stop sign.

Did that help, sknhgy?

First off let me say I have a passion for bike riding. I ride every day.
But I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes while rudely blocking up traffic.

I live in Illinois, close to St. Louis. People come here on weekend rides, acting like they own the place, and all they do is make folks mad by riding 2-3 abreast down the narrow roads. Just this morning I came upon a small pack of riders who were climbing and decending a rather large hill. Its the only road around for several miles and everyone has to use it. The bikers were riding in groups, clogging up the road, and refusing to pull over and let cars and trucks pass. I ride the very same roads and I don't have a problem getting out of the way for vehicles.

I don't dress like you all because I don't want to be associated with the likes of riders like you.

Illinois law says that you shall ride single file, and that vehicles shall provide a 3 foot clearance. Common courtesy says that you keep out of folks' way when they are trying to go about their business.

People around here have a very low opinion of bicycle riders and after the not-so-uncommon experience like I had today, I can see why.


Then don't. The only reason I select to wear spandex is because of its practicality on long distance runs. I also hate riding in groups (I generally hate groups period because they seem to make otherwise perfectly normal and sane people do really stupid things) and always take care to make sure other road users can do their thing too.

whatever happened to: just ride your bike the way YOU want to
and be happy ?

so much written about things you cannot control

When I am out for errands and such that require signficant time off the bike I wear lycra cycling shorts under my regular shorts.

Al

Of course it's dependent on speed, but @ 37 km/h a one piece skin suit will result in 29 seconds saved over 40 km.

But an aero helmet will give you 47 seconds, taking off a bottle and cage will give you 26 seconds, and a disc wheel in front will provide 66 seconds.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/aerodynamics.htm

I've read these and other stats before and of course they confirm my statements that the savings is mere seconds in miles of riding. To a real racing cyclist, in a race that is important but to the rest of us, it makes little difference in our day except to boost our egos. Unless of course we leave home consistently seconds late for work and just have to have the aero advantage. Ride a recumbent they are faster even wearing barn boots and bib overalls. I'd rather ride in versatile attire that works on the bike and off and doesn't look silly or revealing etc.
If you experiment a little you'll find quite a bit of non cycling, normal clothing works fine for riding even on longer rides. If you are riding over say, 25 miles, more athletic stuff works better but I have ridden that far in jeans, a cotton T,and sneakers with no discomfort.
Rude cyclists wear all types of stuff but it does seem that the majority are "serious" lycra clad males between 18-35 who transport their bike on a roof rack from the city to ride in the country. We see them all the time......I purposely dress different (more like I normally do) to disassociate myself with them. Plaid hunting shirts and regular sweats with ankle high work boots work fine..........for me. :eek:
I know its not fashionable but I'm just a dumb old country boy.

First off let me say I have a passion for bike riding. I ride every day.
But I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes while rudely blocking up traffic.

I live in Illinois, close to St. Louis. People come here on weekend rides, acting like they own the place, and all they do is make folks mad by riding 2-3 abreast down the narrow roads. Just this morning I came upon a small pack of riders who were climbing and decending a rather large hill. Its the only road around for several miles and everyone has to use it. The bikers were riding in groups, clogging up the road, and refusing to pull over and let cars and trucks pass. I ride the very same roads and I don't have a problem getting out of the way for vehicles.

I don't dress like you all because I don't want to be associated with the likes of riders like you.

Illinois law says that you shall ride single file, and that vehicles shall provide a 3 foot clearance. Common courtesy says that you keep out of folks' way when they are trying to go about their business.

People around here have a very low opinion of bicycle riders and after the not-so-uncommon experience like I had today, I can see why.

Take a deep breath and let it go. While you may perceive their behavior as inconsiderate, it's not likely illegal as you suggest, but I'm not familiar with IL code. Most states allow riders to ride two abreast. You don't have a right in life or on the road not to be inconvenienced.

As to the clothing, I suspect there are other reasons you won't wear spandex. ;)

When I am out for errands and such that require signficant time off the bike I wear lycra cycling shorts under my regular shorts.

Al

I'm trying to figure out why you have them on at all. If you are doing errands I assume your trips are under 20 miles. I fail to see why any cycling specific clothing is needed. I'll bet the Dutch don't wear lycra going to the market etc.! Whatever a guy likes is fine by me, I just don't understand the need to wear skin tight stretchy pants with a sqwishy gel pad sewn in. I even have some and they don't seem to make a difference on my Brooks saddle and fat posterior. :o

I fail to see why any cycling specific clothing is needed. Granted, not everyone has to ride like they're training for the TDF, & I was a hold out against cycling-specific clothing.

But, some places are different from Holland.

In San Diego, for example, we have good size hills, and warm temperatures. Climbing up steep grades in hot weather is not very fun in a lot of kinds of street-wear, especially if you're a sweaty person.

So what if cycling shorts are "overkill" for trips under 20 miles... the only "down side" is appearance. pack a pair of pants or shorts in your trunk bag.

& if you see no need for cycling clothing yourself, don't wear any :)

I'm trying to figure out why you have them on at all. If you are doing errands I assume your trips are under 20 miles. I fail to see why any cycling specific clothing is needed. I'll bet the Dutch don't wear lycra going to the market etc.! Whatever a guy likes is fine by me, I just don't understand the need to wear skin tight stretchy pants with a sqwishy gel pad sewn in. I even have some and they don't seem to make a difference on my Brooks saddle and fat posterior. :o

It is mainly so my boys don't get bashed around. My shorts don't have any padding or gel, just a thin chamois liner and I too use a Brooks saddle. When I don't wear tight shorts, things don't always stay where I want them and when sitting/standing that can lead to uncomfortable bumps to say the least.

Al

It's ok we don't want to be associated with the likes of you either. Hey everyone wins!
First off let me say I have a passion for bike riding. I ride every day.
But I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes while rudely blocking up traffic.

I live in Illinois, close to St. Louis. People come here on weekend rides, acting like they own the place, and all they do is make folks mad by riding 2-3 abreast down the narrow roads. Just this morning I came upon a small pack of riders who were climbing and decending a rather large hill. Its the only road around for several miles and everyone has to use it. The bikers were riding in groups, clogging up the road, and refusing to pull over and let cars and trucks pass. I ride the very same roads and I don't have a problem getting out of the way for vehicles.

I don't dress like you all because I don't want to be associated with the likes of riders like you.

Illinois law says that you shall ride single file, and that vehicles shall provide a 3 foot clearance. Common courtesy says that you keep out of folks' way when they are trying to go about their business.

People around here have a very low opinion of bicycle riders and after the not-so-uncommon experience like I had today, I can see why.

This thread is kinda funny. For those showing intolerance toward those "spandex superman outfit clad" cyclists "blocking" traffic, remember your statements in this thread the next time a car comes up from behind and yells or honks at you. Your attitude, and you all know who you are, is exactly the same attitude as that angry cager who pisses you off so much. You are of the same type.

I am long past the point in carry about what I wear or what anyone else wears. Bicycle shorts and jerseys are comfortable if you have a road bike, and if you sweat enough and the ride is far enough that you'll have to shower and change anyway, why not wear what is comfortable? I have a 45 minute commute on my road bike. I commute for exercise, not to lollygag. So I use bicycling cloths.

I tried it in "normal" (by which I mean work) cloths one time. It sucked. Back to cycling cloths.

I've never seen any corelation between clothing worn and quality of cycling.

Paul

This thread is kinda funny. For those showing intolerance toward those "spandex superman outfit clad" cyclists "blocking" traffic, remember your statements in this thread the next time a car comes up from behind and yells or honks at you. .


Maybe you will get it....none of the other regulars can.
Why do you think it helps us, as cyclists, when RECREATIONAL riders block a lane
when they could easily move over ? It goes beyond a cycling issue into one of
common decency .....If you are arrogantly sending a message to someone that their
time is not as important as your play time why would someone think this is workable
advocacy ? How can annoying people help our cause ???
Its not about laws, rights or anything else like that, its about trying make drivers
accept us and not think we are the arrogant jerks some of the people here propose
as 'advocacy'. I have experienced and see the fallout from 'Me Me Me' type 'advocacy' in
these forums everyday. Obviously, it doesnt work.

Maybe you will get it....none of the other regulars can.
Why do you think it helps us, as cyclists, when RECREATIONAL riders block a lane
when they could easily move over ? It goes beyond a cycling issue into one of
common decency .....If you are arrogantly sending a message to someone that their
time is not as important as your play time why would someone think this is workable
advocacy ? How can annoying people help our cause ???
Its not about laws, rights or anything else like that, its about trying make drivers
accept us and not think we are the arrogant jerks some of the people here propose
as 'advocacy'. I have experienced and see the fallout from 'Me Me Me' type 'advocacy' in
these forums everyday. Obviously, it doesnt work.

Oh, so the motorist going somewhere on a Saturday morning is most DEFINITELY going somewhere important (definitely not the mall, or the park, or to visit a friend, or any other recreational purpose) yet the cyclists are most DEFINITELY not out there for any good reason. Right...

That motorist isnt arrogantly holding up a line of bicycles or other vehicles.
The difference you guys just cant seem to understand.

That motorist isnt arrogantly holding up a line of bicycles or other vehicles.
The difference you guys just cant seem to understand.

No, they are arrogantly almost forcing me off the road. Or honking. Or yelling. Or throwing crap.

Maybe you will get it....none of the other regulars can.
Why do you think it helps us, as cyclists, when RECREATIONAL riders block a lane
when they could easily move over ? It goes beyond a cycling issue into one of
common decency .....If you are arrogantly sending a message to someone that their
time is not as important as your play time why would someone think this is workable
advocacy ? How can annoying people help our cause ???
Its not about laws, rights or anything else like that, its about trying make drivers
accept us and not think we are the arrogant jerks some of the people here propose
as 'advocacy'. I have experienced and see the fallout from 'Me Me Me' type 'advocacy' in
these forums everyday. Obviously, it doesnt work.

The bolded section is the key point you are trying to make, I believe.

You cannot gain acceptance by playing by other people's unspoken rules. There is no way to force people to accept you. All you can do is be.

So my answer is: I don't beg acceptance.

My time is worth exactly as much as any other's time. No more, no less. If I am "playing", then so be it. "Playing" is important to me because I hold a desk job and don't want to compromise the physical ability of my body. Yes, that guy behind me might be trying to get to a hospital. There's no way for me to tell, and there's no way for me to accomodate him. He (or she) might just as equally be trying to make his golf tee time. If I am on my way to work, am I now sanctioned to diss-accomodate this person? How will I tell who is who?

The written rules of the road are all that is necessary for my presence on the road to be sanctioned. The rules say, above all, that I am not disallowed. The rules state, in fairly clear terms, how I and every other road user is to operate while on the road. No more is necessary. Nowhere is it stated that a driver's time is somehow worth more than my own time.

Bicycles have a rich history in the USA. Pelotons of amateur sport cyclists were rolling around long before cars were popular. This is why bicycles are still allowed on the road in groups. It is fun and a great physical activity and has been around ever since people discovered you can pedal a bicycle more easily if you are behind another cyclist.

How then, oh how, do you ask, are you supposed to pass a group of cyclists who have deemed it in their best interest and within their rights to claim a lane of traffic? Well, sh!t... just pass them in the adjacent lane. Isn't that how you'd pass a car? You're a cyclist, for crying out loud! Man up and quit complaining about how your superhero dressup fags (who you are not one of, of course) are spoiling your day because they are in your way.

I stand by my statement: The next time a car flies by with the horn blaring and the driver cussing you out for "being in my way", think of what you are writing here. They also think that their time is worth more than your time and by being in the way you are in the wrong and you should be accomodating them because, after all, you should be in a car because everyone else is in a car and because you are in a bike you are voluntarily choosing a choice which is impeding their progress unnecessarily and because you chose your inferior transportation you must not be needing to be getting anywhere fast so you should just get out of the way and stay out of the way and not hold those important people up who have better things to do than to ride a bicycle out where it gets in the way of people.

No, they are arrogantly almost forcing me off the road. Or honking. Or yelling. Or throwing crap.

Bingo. I choose where I need to ride on the road. Nobody else. The law already states that I need to be as far right as practicable. If I am not as far right as you think I should be, it is because there is a reason for me not being as far right as would be convenient for you.

I get an occasional yell, maybe 3 a year, but I never, ever impede anyones forward
motion. That is my advocacy and credo. The yellers would have yelled at anyone in
my place, not because I am holding them up. I want to remain invisible and realize
peoples time to them is as important as mine is to me and conduct my affairs accordingly.
I guarantee unequivocally the guy who went by me as I pulled into the bikelane or
the car I slowed for and motioned out onto PGA Blvd. is going to have better things to
say about my advocacy than the poor sap going 15mph in a line of cars hemmed up
behind a gang of persecutionally complexed and militant roadies.

@Lem
What can I say. Good on you. But not my style.

I still don't know where all these 'arrogant', 'militant' road blocking roadies dressed in 'superhero outfits' and similar derogatory descriptions of pretty much normal cycling comfort attire are existing - except as they exist on anti-cyclist talk show rants and anti-cyclist blogs and newspaper reader comments, where those colorful descriptions of everyday cyclists seem to thrive.

It seems the anti-cyclist, anti-same-rights-same-rules folks who want to get cyclists off 'their' roads are winning the propaganda 'war' if their efforts to deride cyclists based on their appearance and the blowing out of proportion of the occasional less than as far right as practible cycling behavior as judged by a motorist are dividing cyclists themselves against each other and resulting in cyclists changing their behavior to a degree not required by equal courtesy or law or are causing cyclists to avoid comfortable clothing.

Al

These group personality tests sure do make interesting reading.

George

Derath

You ride that 5 days per week?

I wish...sorta

No the bulk of my commuting decisions revolve around whether to stop by the bathroom as I walk down the hall to the home office. I try to go into the office as little as possible. In fact there is talk that I may lose my desk since I am in there so infrequently.

But on my work from home days I try to do at least 30-50 miles over lunch. Sometimes less if I plan for a stop at the supermarket during the ride.

-D

The bolded section is the key point you are trying to make, I believe.

You cannot gain acceptance by playing by other people's unspoken rules. There is no way to force people to accept you. All you can do is be.

So my answer is: I don't beg acceptance.

My time is worth exactly as much as any other's time. No more, no less. If I am "playing", then so be it. "Playing" is important to me because I hold a desk job and don't want to compromise the physical ability of my body. Yes, that guy behind me might be trying to get to a hospital. There's no way for me to tell, and there's no way for me to accomodate him. He (or she) might just as equally be trying to make his golf tee time. If I am on my way to work, am I now sanctioned to diss-accomodate this person? How will I tell who is who?

The written rules of the road are all that is necessary for my presence on the road to be sanctioned. The rules say, above all, that I am not disallowed. The rules state, in fairly clear terms, how I and every other road user is to operate while on the road. No more is necessary. Nowhere is it stated that a driver's time is somehow worth more than my own time.

Bicycles have a rich history in the USA. Pelotons of amateur sport cyclists were rolling around long before cars were popular. This is why bicycles are still allowed on the road in groups. It is fun and a great physical activity and has been around ever since people discovered you can pedal a bicycle more easily if you are behind another cyclist.

How then, oh how, do you ask, are you supposed to pass a group of cyclists who have deemed it in their best interest and within their rights to claim a lane of traffic? Well, sh!t... just pass them in the adjacent lane. Isn't that how you'd pass a car? You're a cyclist, for crying out loud! Man up and quit complaining about how your superhero dressup fags (who you are not one of, of course) are spoiling your day because they are in your way.

I stand by my statement: The next time a car flies by with the horn blaring and the driver cussing you out for "being in my way", think of what you are writing here. They also think that their time is worth more than your time and by being in the way you are in the wrong and you should be accomodating them because, after all, you should be in a car because everyone else is in a car and because you are in a bike you are voluntarily choosing a choice which is impeding their progress unnecessarily and because you chose your inferior transportation you must not be needing to be getting anywhere fast so you should just get out of the way and stay out of the way and not hold those important people up who have better things to do than to ride a bicycle out where it gets in the way of people.

Well said.

I get an occasional yell, maybe 3 a year, but I never, ever impede anyones forward
motion. That is my advocacy and credo. The yellers would have yelled at anyone in
my place, not because I am holding them up. I want to remain invisible and realize
peoples time to them is as important as mine is to me and conduct my affairs accordingly.
I guarantee unequivocally the guy who went by me as I pulled into the bikelane or
the car I slowed for and motioned out onto PGA Blvd. is going to have better things to
say about my advocacy than the poor sap going 15mph in a line of cars hemmed up
behind a gang of persecutionally complexed and militant roadies.

For the extact opposite reason from the bolded section is one of the reasons that a double paceline is effective: you aren't invisible. And while I certainly would agree that cyclists need to be courtious to drivers behind them by moving over, forcing drivers to be alert while passing is important.

I try to ride predictably, use hand signals, roll with lights and reflectors at night, wear visible clothing and generally try to be courteous to automobile drivers and especially truckers. I find lycra uncomfortable and use simple athletic undies (to keep things out of the way) with regular loose fitting shorts or sweats when it gets cold.
I rarely have any problems with auto drivers maybe one or two a year and certainly less than I do when driving my auto.
Normal daily rides theses days are between 0-30 miles with 30-50 on the week ends. I have commuted to work between 16-56 miles round trip. I live and ride mostly in rural areas but commutes take me to the city.
I remember riding in my youth with wool cycling shorts and real leather shoes with straps and clips. What passes for shorts these days is laughable. All that foam or gel just looks and feels like an adult diaper.
Andiamo undies are on my list to buy as are some shorts from Rivendell but I think any hiking short would work as well. I'm reminded of the old British cycling club film I saw that showed cyclists riding in wool slacks and loafers along with beer at rest stops and real food in their saddlebags. All the hydration backpacks, gels and synthetic petrol based fabrics seem kind of counter to the whole spirit of reducing pollution by cycling and using a bike in a daily, practical sort of way. What I see in American cyclists in general is, adults using bikes as expensive toys. I think this is one reason auto driving, non-cyclists, view cyclists as they commonly do. It is perhaps why cycling has not caught on as well as it could and why we continue to have problems with auto drivers. The more people see us as responsible and courteous and just a regular guy getting around and the more there is of that, the more we will start seeing changes. It's happening though, with more and more cycling paths being built and more awareness regarding adult transportation cycling.

my page my bike stuff
http://www.myspace.com/eccentriccyclistcharlie

One 'version of reality' I have noticed views road bicycles with superhero dressed riders as big boys playing with their toys in the street. Can't they exercise somewhere else? Must they inconvenience and worry automobile drivers by making them watch for cyclist? Are they just big children you must watch out for? Children should not play in the street.

That same view transfers over to the courts when cyclists are killed on the road due to a motorists negligence. Since they took the risk to exercise on the road, should it be the motorists responsibility to insure their safety? Apparently not. Fortunately, most drivers watch for bicyclists albeit consider them similar to Amish horse and buggy's. Shedding the big boy play toy image would be beneficial to cyclists, imo.

I'm trying to figure out why you have them on at all. ... I fail to see why any cycling specific clothing is needed.

I ... use simple athletic undies (to keep things out of the way) with regular loose fitting shorts or sweats when it gets cold.

So you do use 'special' undergarments for cycling. What difference does it make if people use cycling shorts for those special undergarments or 'athletic underwear'?

Al