Advocacy & Safety - I refuse to dress like a superhero

Why can't a bicycle stand up by itself?
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Because it is too tired!!!!:roflmao2:

+ 1,00000000000,00000000000000,000000000000

Human nature is to remember the stuff that makes you mad for a long time.
Arrogant, non-yieding roadies in PowerRanger motif are the anti-cyclists.
They have done more to hurt our 'cause' in the name of training than all CM's
and lite-less, wrong-way bikers have combined.
The impression that lingers from the group of 10 Lance-a-bes who held a driver up
will remain longer than the guy who is polite, yields and just wants to get home with a
minimum of drama.

As a Lycra wearer, I might resemble those riders you're referring to, but I don't block the Motorists ;) Don't be so quick to judge, my friend, the "Superhero costume" as you put it, is just a tool for comfort and safety (Wicking, abrasion resistance, and visibility).

I wear the minimum lycra neccessary for comfort - that being the stuff down under. Pretty much everything else could be anything at all.

I agree with the OP on the road hog mindset of sooo many riders. Makes me crazy and I believe it puts me in danger. In our club, there are rides that I will simply not attend based purely upon the route and the number of people that show up. The more urban the ride, and the more riders - the less likely I am too go along. Just too unwieldy and unpredictable. I just say hello and go the other way. The club founder and some of the leads know why, but it's very hard to disciple individual riders, so...

I think it's a problem of culture here in America. It might have something to do with a sense of individual entitlement: Screw everybody else.

In Europe I witnessed a very different mindset. They seem to have alot more respect for other road users across the board. Oh, and very few Jester Kits.

From the Illinois Vehicle Code (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1815&ChapAct=625%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=49&ChapterName=VEHICLES&ActName=Illinois+Vehicle+Code.):

1. Persons riding bicycles or motorized pedal cycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than 2 abreast, except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for their exclusive use. Persons riding 2 abreast shall not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic and, on a laned roadway, shall ride within a single lane subject to the provisions of Section 11‑1505.

Position of bicycles and motorized pedal cycles on roadways ‑ Riding on roadways and bicycle paths.
(a) Any person operating a bicycle or motorized pedal cycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable and safe to the right‑hand curb or edge of the roadway except under the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle, motorized pedal cycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway; or

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, bicycles, motorized pedal cycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes that make it unsafe to continue along the right‑hand curb or edge. For purposes of this subsection, a "substandard width lane" means a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle or motorized pedal cycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

4. When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

First off, what they are wearing should have nothing to do with this. If you are too small minded and childish to get over the fact that some people don't dress how you do, you should probably stay home more often.

Second, if the road is narrow, the cyclists have every right to take up the full lane. Inviting motorists to try and squeeze by in the same lane is dangerous for everybody, especially if sightlines for oncoming traffic are no good. I highly doubt these cyclists caused anyone a significant delay especially on a weekend morning. Again, if you can't take experiencing any delay or someone who won't "keep out of [your] way when [you] are trying to go about [your] business" I suggest you stay home more often. Do you whine this much about traffic lights and stop signs?

"As a Lycra wearer, I might resemble those riders you're referring to, but I don't block the Motorists Don't be so quick to judge, my friend, the "Superhero costume" as you put it, is just a tool for comfort and safety (Wicking, abrasion resistance, and visibility). "


I know, I know, I know. My apologies to you. I was getting it off my chest.

It's just that it happens here every weekend, and people constantly complain about it, and if I dressed like that I might be mistaken for one of the culprits.

Now I'm off for a ride..............................:o

First off, what they are wearing should have nothing to do with this. If you are too small minded and childish to get over the fact that some people don't dress how you do, you should probably stay home more often.

Second, if the road is narrow, the cyclists have every right to take up the full lane. Inviting motorists to try and squeeze by in the same lane is dangerous for everybody, especially if sightlines for oncoming traffic are no good. I highly doubt these cyclists caused anyone a significant delay especially on a weekend morning. Again, if you can't take experiencing any delay or someone who won't "keep out of [your] way when [you] are trying to go about [your] business" I suggest you stay home more often. Do you whine this much about traffic lights and stop signs?

George Washington said people judge you by the company you keep. When the locals vent their anger at bicyclists, they always mention the duded-up costume bikers. I am careful to disassociate myself from that group for that reason.

Those bikers can easily and safely get out of the way. Like I said, I routinely do so on the very same roads.

George Washington said people judge you by the company you keep. When the locals vent their anger at bicyclists, they always mention the duded-up costume bikers. I am careful to disassociate myself from that group for that reason.

Aside from being slow road users, what else do these cyclists do that make you so afraid of being associated with them? So far, you haven't provided any real reason for people to get angry other than their own (and your own) impatience.


Those bikers can easily and safely get out of the way. Like I said, I routinely do so on the very same roads.

So how do you manage to get out of the way? Are motorists still crossing the centerline to pass you? How much space do they give when they pass you?

Aside from being slow road users, what else do these cyclists do that make you so afraid of being associated with them? So far, you haven't provided any real reason for people to get angry other than their own (and your own) impatience.


Theories and laws mean nothing. The OP's reality based observations have been
absolutely, 100% correct in my experience. Impatient and angry people are
what we have to deal with. The other stuff is useless when actually on the road.

I don't dress like you all because I don't want to be associated with the likes of riders like you.

I think there's something about "not reading a book by its cover" that may be in play here. For me, it's not about the clothes, but rather one's actions that define a rider.

I race, so when I train I'm in a kit or some other "super hero" outfit most of the time. In your book, I'm some sort of felon on wheels based purely on the clothes I wear. That doesn't seem like a fair judgement to make. I do dress more casually on non-training rides and when I commute. Perhaps you'd associate with me then? :p

... Brad

Theories and laws mean nothing. The OP's reality based observations have been
absolutely, 100% correct in my experience. Impatient and angry people are
what we have to deal with. The other stuff is useless when actually on the road.

Where have I denied that impatient and angry people are on the roads? I'm not sure how your post applies to anything I've said.

I cant do the A&S petty semantic thing.
You get it, or you dont.

But this whole superhero "costume" issue as well as the peloton thing is brought about by the bicycle marketeers responding to the market they perceive, part of which has been brought about by the way motorists want to see cyclists... isolated.

Everyday folks riding a bike... heaven forbid, you should be in a car.

We have created this image of the cyclist in America, and now we live with it.

We have created this image of the cyclist in America, and now we live with it.

I think it's more a case of people needing to be a part of a group. For example, the fixie crowd is all about being different and counter culture. But why do they then all look/dress the same? To fit into a group - that's why. Your road racers and wannabees wear tight kits - group again.

If you are wearing casual/loose clothes on your bike - it's the group mentality that also dictates your dress.

... Brad

Road racers wear "tight kit" for sound, practicla reasons of comfort and aerodynamic efficiency. It has absolutley nothing to do with wanting to fit in.

First off let me say I have a passion for bike riding. I ride every day.
But I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes while rudely blocking up traffic.

I live in Illinois, close to St. Louis. People come here on weekend rides, acting like they own the place, and all they do is make folks mad by riding 2-3 abreast down the narrow roads. Just this morning I came upon a small pack of riders who were climbing and decending a rather large hill. Its the only road around for several miles and everyone has to use it. The bikers were riding in groups, clogging up the road, and refusing to pull over and let cars and trucks pass. I ride the very same roads and I don't have a problem getting out of the way for vehicles.

I don't dress like you all because I don't want to be associated with the likes of riders like you.

Illinois law says that you shall ride single file, and that vehicles shall provide a 3 foot clearance. Common courtesy says that you keep out of folks' way when they are trying to go about their business.

People around here have a very low opinion of bicycle riders and after the not-so-uncommon experience like I had today, I can see why.

Don't worry no one wants to be associated with a moron like you either.

Whenever I drive somewhere, eventually I come across another vehicle moving slower than me. During rush hour, there are always other vehicles clogging up the road. People constantly complain about traffic. These cars should pull over and let me by. I am far more important than anyone else on the road. Common courtesy says that most people should just stay home and let me drive. People around here have a very low opinion of other vehicles.


First off let me say I have a passion for bike riding. I ride every day.
But I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes while rudely blocking up traffic.

I live in Illinois, close to St. Louis. People come here on weekend rides, acting like they own the place, and all they do is make folks mad by riding 2-3 abreast down the narrow roads. Just this morning I came upon a small pack of riders who were climbing and decending a rather large hill. Its the only road around for several miles and everyone has to use it. The bikers were riding in groups, clogging up the road, and refusing to pull over and let cars and trucks pass. I ride the very same roads and I don't have a problem getting out of the way for vehicles.

I don't dress like you all because I don't want to be associated with the likes of riders like you.

Illinois law says that you shall ride single file, and that vehicles shall provide a 3 foot clearance. Common courtesy says that you keep out of folks' way when they are trying to go about their business.

People around here have a very low opinion of bicycle riders and after the not-so-uncommon experience like I had today, I can see why.

People come here on weekend rides, acting like they own the place, and all they do is make folks mad by riding 2-3 abreast down the narrow roads.

Um, If it is a narrow lane, and in order to safely pass a cyclist who is crowding the right side of the lane you must cross into oncoming traffic lanes, WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER IF THEY ARE TWO ABREAST OR NOT! Any position in the lane by a cyclist necessitates encroaching oncoming lanes.

I say the real problem is that you keep owning cars that are too wide! Why do you need side to side seating in your car anyway, huh? You act like you own the place!

My argument is just as pointless as yours, because the issue isn't where the cyclists are riding, or how wide your car is. The issue is safely using NARROW PUBLIC ROADS! What part of public don't you understand? If you want to drive where you won't be bothered by cyclists using the PUBLIC road, get on a freeway!

If you are too small minded and childish to get over the fact that some people don't dress how you do, you should probably stay home more often.
He was quite clear that he was saying that "he doesn't want to dress like others (these cyclists). Nowhere did I see him pose the question that they should be dressed like him. :p

I admit it. Part of me is impatient and intolerant. I really didn't intend to offend any respectful riders. But:
1) It's possible to ride without hogging the road.
2) Everyone has the right to dress as they want.
3) The road hogs do turn people against bicycle riders, and I don't care to have drivers pissed at me for something that other people did/do.
There's a little bit of moron in all of us.

I admit it. Part of me is impatient and intolerant. I really didn't intend to offend any respectful riders. But:
1) It's possible to ride without hogging the road.
2) Everyone has the right to dress as they want.
3) The road hogs do turn people against bicycle riders, and I don't care to have drivers pissed at me for something that other people did/do.
There's a little bit of moron in all of us.

Define "hogging" the road.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Does your definition include riding at say 18MPH past a line of parked cars well within reach of a potentially opening car door?

Define "hogging" the road.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Does your definition include riding at say 18MPH past a line of parked cars well within reach of a potentially opening car door?

As a trucker who rides a bike plenty, road hogging is, in one sense: taking your half out of the middle.
Riding prudently to avoid playing door-tag is sensible - take what you think you need.

The road hogs the OP is referring to are cyclists who ride two or three abreast when they know they are blocking the free flow motorised traffic - that's all. A courteous group will have the sweep yelling, "car back". The others will pass the word, and get into single file. No drama, and little if any ill will from motorists.

What's not to get here? This is what I meant when I mentioned our American "self-interest" culture (not neccessarily you, genec, I'm just sayin').

This whole discussion illustrates why I generally dislike large group rides.

I admit it. Part of me is impatient and intolerant. I really didn't intend to offend any respectful riders. But:
1) It's possible to ride without hogging the road.
2) Everyone has the right to dress as they want.
3) The road hogs do turn people against bicycle riders, and I don't care to have drivers pissed at me for something that other people did/do.
There's a little bit of moron in all of us.

Fair enough, but sometimes drivers can't distinguish the difference between "hogging" the road and unsafe riding (eg hugging the curb). More often I think drivers have lost any semblance of courtesy and respect towards cyclists and other motorists. The level of entitlement that views every driver or cyclist in your path as an inconvenience is ridiculous and deadly.

Just another moron's opinion.:D

when automobile racers race or train, for the most part they don't use the public roads. Bike racers do. and they look and act like angry ****wads while they're doing it. they deserve all the scorn they get.

when automobile racers race or train, for the most part they don't use the public roads. Bike racers do. and they look and act like angry ****wads while they're doing it. they deserve all the scorn they get.

I love internet tough talk.

Road racers wear "tight kit" for sound, practicla reasons of comfort and aerodynamic efficiency. It has absolutley nothing to do with wanting to fit in.

Uhm, I don't disagree with you about the practical and aerodynamic points you raise, and I'm not certain I can agree with the OP's remarks about super-hero outfits. But, most of the kit-decked groups about which he/she rants are not racers. They probably benefit quite a bit from the comfort their outfits provide . . . less so from the aerodynamic advantages.

If we were talking racers, here, I doubt there would that much of an issue.

Caruso

when automobile racers race or train, for the most part they don't use the public roads. Bike racers do. and they look and act like angry ****wads while they're doing it. they deserve all the scorn they get.

Sounds like someone is projecting.

That is a hilarious analogy. I guess all the time I have spent driving to work somehow qualifies me for a Formula 1 race?

Speaking of "angry ****wads," have you driven on the freeways lately? They seem to be a magnet for "angry ****wad" motorists.

I find it astounded that on a cycling forum, there is so much bile piled on to cyclists riding legally on the roads.


when automobile racers race or train, for the most part they don't use the public roads. Bike racers do. and they look and act like angry ****wads while they're doing it. they deserve all the scorn they get.

I find it astounding that on a cycling forum, there is so much bile piled on to cyclists riding legally on the roads.

And with such ignorance of cycling/traffic laws.

I've encountered these types of cyclists too.......out on a "training ride" all decked out in their tight undies, fantasizing about riding the TDF, all the while their chain going, squeak, squeak, squeak!!! ( I actually saw this once, hilarious)
I'm all for riding hard if you want to and if you actually believe that the Lycra helps, fine but it still looks goofy. I have some Lycra bib shorts but honestly prefer wicking athletic undies and cheap regular hiking style shorts. No pad necessary since I ride a solid leather saddle. The speed gain by wearing skin tights only amounts to mere seconds or a few minutes in miles of riding. Comfort is arguable since I have found an alternative that works plus, lets me walk around off the bike and not feel like a circus act.

As far as hogging the road, I think we all know what the O.P. was trying to say. Some of us have been that type of cyclist and some still are. These guys are the same no matter how many wheels they roll on.
If the O.P. and his neighbors recognize these types of cyclists as inconsiderate lycra wearing roadies from the city, then I can see why he wants to avoid being associated with that. :eek:

If the O.P. and his neighbors recognize these types of cyclists as inconsiderate lycra wearing roadies from the city, then I can see why he wants to avoid being associated with that. :eek:
And if not wearing a costume is what it takes for the O.P. to live peacefully with is neighbors and still ride a bike with pleasure, I can understand that. We have lots of members on Bike Forums in similar communities.

Is the OP jealous? I dress like a "superhero" because the clothing is functional. Now if I could only ride like a superhero...

Holy over generalizing Batman !

For example, the fixie crowd is all about being different and counter culture. But why do they then all look/dress the same? To fit into a group - that's why. Your road racers and wannabees wear tight kits - group again.

I ride everything except a unicycle or a recumbent and dress the same whether I'm riding my road bikes, fixies, mountain bikes, or old cruisers. I don't wear my sister's pants (another generalization btw) and have tape on my bars.

Being considerate does not mean that you have to give up your right to having a safe space on the road but blocking traffic on single lane roads is a bad practice and increases the risk to everyone.

Your typical roadie kit makes you really stand out and if you do things to annoy other riders or cagers then make it hard on folks who enjoy wearing the same kit and ride in a considerate manner as they get labeled.

I don't dress like you all because I don't want to be associated with the likes of riders like you.

Give it a try sometime (unless this little rant is actually about personal comfort wearing tight clothes). Lycra shorts are nice for longer rides. I don't think you gain much conflating behavior and dress.

I apologize for my post above. I should have said "inconsiderate, rude ****wads." It's not really about what they are wearing, it's about behavior. And how they act and treat other road users makes an impression. rude riders do deserve the scorn they get.

I think the OP needs to fess up and let us all know how long he was delayed for.

Uhm, OP, last time I checked there were no bicycle Nazis enforcing a spandex only rule. Wear what you want, I'll wear what I want.

You've got a lot of time on your hands to rant about spandex.

I think the posting got off-track here.......
The OP was griping about club training riders moreso than the lycra.
I dont care what someone wears but my opinion stated previously, remains...
non-yielding club riders have hurt efforts to integrate bicycling further up in the
heiarchy of transportation ladder than any other negative element within our ranks.
Do they have a right to the road ? Of course.....should they hold cars up when they
can singe-file up or move over ? Definately not.

Today I saw a guy on a mtb wearing street clothes riding on a sidewalk in downtown Baltimore clip a pedestrian and ride off without an apology or stopping to see if they were ok.
Guess that make ALL cyclists NOT wearing kit ****wads. :rolleyes:

should they hold cars up when they can singe-file up or move over ? Definately not.

Should people whine and complain about cyclists hogging the road because they don't know that cyclists are actually allowed to ride two abreast? Should they whine and complain when they would need to use the oncoming lane regardless of where the cyclist is riding thus necessitating waiting behind the cyclist for some amount of time for a good spot to pass? Definitely not.

Should they complain ? Maybe not....but again, you and HH only deal in hypotheticals, not reality.
If one is truly interested in building a workable relationship with car drivers one must
give a little too....
I worked at MBNA in Wilmington and would get hemmed up behind large groups of roadies
who would militantly block old Rt. 100 regularly on my way back to West Chester.
Im a cyclist and felt like riding my horn the whole time I was behind them. Although I
didnt, I can certainly understand someone elses frustration at suffering such rudeness and
anti-social behaviour. It goes beyond a cycling issue into a decency and consideration
issue. If you cant be considerate of other people you cant expect them to be that of you.
That goes for bike riders too, not just cars. I am being totally non-antagonistical here...
Just for the sake of my own edification....why is it such a HUGE problem for staunch
VCers to abdicate to a car on any level ?

In all the states I have lived and traveled, I have yet to see a road that forced motorist to wait more than a minute or so to pass any slow moving vehicle, including cyclist. Pics please of these roads where motorist must wait for 2 miles before passing a group of cyclist (or other slow moving vehicle).

A cyclist traveling 25mph will only cover 2200 feet within a minute.
I've seen plenty of 35mph country roads with double yellows and "No Passing Zone" signs posted that exceed twice this distance. Likely anyone who has driven anywhere but city streets has seen double yellow no passing zones that exceed this distance as well.
Does the "road" itself force people to not pass? No, of course not, that would be silly. But the law does make it illegal to do so.
Unless of course you consider a bicycle (or group of cyclists) in the road traveling 10mph under the limit an "obstruction" and not (a) vehicle/vehicles. But then you'd probably still get a ticket if caught doing it and have to prove in court that they really are obstructions. And we all would love for the courts to start considering cyclists "obstructions" wouldn't we?

quote from Lem in Pa:
"... behind large groups of roadies who would militantly block old Rt. 100 regularly on my way back to West Chester. Im a cyclist and felt like riding my horn the whole time I was behind them. Although I didnt, I can certainly understand someone elses frustration at suffering such rudeness and anti-social behaviour. It goes beyond a cycling issue into a decency and consideration issue."

So, what you are saying is that a group of people on bikes were riding on the road, and you felt yourself important enough to get mad at having to be patient ... wow, i suppose you're statement from before - "you either get it or you don't" - is right.

I am interested though. How is claiming your lawful place on the road anti-social? And if i have the same right to the road, why exactly do i have to go out of my way to let you pass just because you're in a car?

the sad truth, is that the cyclists you all encounter probably (let's say 99% chance here) aren't purposefully trying to piss anyone off. They probably look at a lane and say, wow, this is one narrow lane, for the sake of myself, and the twenty people riding with me, i think we should watch out for our own safety. Complain as you must, but lighten up a tad, and consider it from their perspective. A lane that you think is wide enough, isn't necessarily seen the same way by someone on a bike.

And OP, this statement is ridiculous: "3) The road hogs do turn people against bicycle riders, and I don't care to have drivers pissed at me for something that other people did/do."

I say ridiculous because you are assuming that cyclists have the amazing ability to provoke the same reaction in all "people". Not only that, you are giving those same "people" very little credit for their ability to move on in their life ... after such a traumatic event as being forced to drive behind a cyclist for a mile (or probably less)! I'm being sarcastic, and i apologize, but let's give an example: let's say a car cuts you off, are you going to hold that against every car you see? are you going to group that car with all the other millions of cars in this country? are you going to purposefully do something to endanger the next car/driver you come across? of course you won't, that is, unless you belong in a mental institution (or are an incredibly petty person).

People move on. Those same people that were mad about being stuck behind a cyclist will find something else to be mad about 20 minutes later ...

and if this is really about your insecurities on being judged by others, i'll assume you're 15, and tell you to grow up.

^^^ Sooo typical. :roflmao:
Not even worth any more of a response other than to question
your reading comprehension.

^^^ Sooo typical. :roflmao:
Not even worth any more of a response other than to question
your reading comprehension.
Hey now! "Reading Comprehension" statements are that of the anti-facilities pro-VC group... you know better! ;)

real mature ... but let me spell it out for you ... you say: "it's being considerate" ... i say, "you're full of crap" ... how does this fault my reading comprehension?

should they hold cars up when they
can singe-file up or move over ? Definately not.

+1

Ok Shavit, you win at teh internatz

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