Living Car Free - Lurkers in the suburbs

I've heard many comments here about how difficult it must be to live carfree in the suburbs.

Just wondering if any suburban lurkers out there have become carfree or at least managed to reduce their car usage? How did you manage it? How do you get to work/groceries/entainment w/o a car?

Do you have any plans to further reduce your time in the car?

Just wondering if any suburban lurkers out there have become carfree or at least managed to reduce their car usage?...
I think it could be done in special circumstances. For example, in a residential subdivision behind a cluster of retail strip centers that front on a major arterial, provided that there are usable transit connections nearby.

Fragility is a problem with most suburban car free situations. All it takes is one employer relocation or a change in school attendance districts to make a car necessary again.

I'm car free in the suburbs and it does entail a commitment to long distance riding. I commute 50 miles a day r/t and I consider that average (I've done longer). The shortest daily commute I've ever had was about 30 miles a day r/t.

The main grocery shopping for me is pretty close, about 1/2 hour away. Since the car-free lifestyle here is as common as aliens from Neptune I'm looked at as a complete freak wherever I go. I't's mostly amusing but gets on my nerves at times.

Impressive, Cyclaholic!!

I am car-lite in the suburbs. I ride to work, make most of my shopping stops during my commute, have drastically reduced the amount of frivolous driving I do (eating out, entertainment), and have switched to buying most of my consumables bulk and having them delivered.

I understand that it's highly debatable whether shipping 8 containers of laundry detergent to my house is helping or hurting from an environmental perspective. If nothing else, it has helped to keep me focused on essentials and prevented me from making a lot of impulse buys and helped me reduce my overall consumption.

I very-much want to go car-free (personally) and reduce my wife's driving. Accomplishing this, however, will require a move to a more suitable location. My wife has already taken to walking to the store quite a bit, but it's literally two miles from my house to the entrance of my neighborhood (and I'm only half-way in), so forsaking the car only happens in ideal circumstances (mood, weather, time-of-day).

I have been trying to identify potential car-free housing in my town, and so far have only come up with one small area that would be suitable. Moving there would double my mortgage payment though, and put us firmly within "house-poor" territory. If the decision were solely mine, I would sell the house and go back to renting. I could get a reasonable place for the same monthly payment and be within walking distance of everything I require. Financially, we would come out ahead after losing the tax benefits, but reducing transportation costs -- and compared to buying housing in the same location, we would be WAY ahead.

Unfortunately, my wife has really bought into the "home ownership as an investment" myth, so this would be an extremely hard sell.

hmmm.. I'm technically a 'burb, but don't have the miles to civilization issue. that'd be Highlands Ranch.

so my answer would be based on that.
I can and do walk to job A. I use light rail and a bus (with some walking) for job B (bored in Denver? Come to Swallow Hill!)

what is the biggie, and the main reason I'm triking and on the forum, is laundry.
I wash a lot by hand, but sometimes I HAVE to go to the laundromat. And the trike makes that possible in a way RTD (bus) cannot.
wheee!

now, I did a lot intentionally aimed at going car light, such as renting near work (Job A- the full time gig), and public transport (until I can afford the Scorpion fx, I'm either /or for transport. no trikes allowed.)
I blow off steam at a few venues around town, and I was lucky: they are on the light rail line.

Looking at the folks I know in Highlands Ranch (which has this really nice *cough* C470 highway in the northern strip), I see serious cyclists commuting, they do have decent trails and hook into the Highline Canal or the trail along the South Platte, but the majority have short bike jaunts to mass transit.
most opt to work at home. I think 73 percent of their self-employed folks have basement offices.

truepeacenik....funny you would mention Highlands Ranch and the basement offices...that is where my brother lives and just what he does:D He works for a company based out of Boston, MA. He is their "west coast" rep and is based in the Denver area. They have tried to get him to move east, but won't pay him what he feels is enough to leave the area.

Aaron:)

I have been trying to identify potential car-free housing in my town, and so far have only come up with one small area that would be suitable. Moving there would double my mortgage payment though, and put us firmly within "house-poor" territory.
When I went looking for a house, the only reasonably walkable areas were pretty expensive... at least by mid West standards. To find housing that I could afford, I had to move a little farther down the road. Fortunately, I found something in an older suburb... about 60 blocks from downtown. And also the suburb was zoned such that groceries and housing could co-exist.


I'm car free in the suburbs and it does entail a commitment to long distance riding. I commute 50 miles a day r/t and I consider that average (I've done longer). The shortest daily commute I've ever had was about 30 miles a day r/t.

The main grocery shopping for me is pretty close, about 1/2 hour away. Since the car-free lifestyle here is as common as aliens from Neptune I'm looked at as a complete freak wherever I go. I't's mostly amusing but gets on my nerves at times.

A friend of mine (elderly gentlemen) from Sydney told me that he gave up his car because he really didn't need it, since his apartment in downtown is close to everything he needs. He added, " it's the poor b**stards who live on the outskirts who need cars to get to work."

Interesting input from people that actually live in the 'burbs. I live about 7 miles outside of a relatively small town (not typically BTW it is on the outskirts of a massive military base) The town we have our retail shop in is about 25 miles from our house in the sticks. It is a typical small town of about 10k with all of the necessary shopping, hospitals, and the like to be able to live car free. Employment may be a different issue, but there are several manufacturing plants, warehousing and retail places to work. I realize not everybody has a choice on where they can live, that job choices play a major part in where you live. To me the best place to start looking is a small to medium sized town an hour or so away from a major city.

Aaron:)

I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.
I know too much about H-Ranch; I'm their reporter.

you must have nieces or nephews? that's the main reason to be in HR.

but, the Metro District has a nice trail system, plus Centennial Trail (it has another name I'm spacing) and High Line Canal.

I live in a Suburb outside of Spokane, WA. My wife and I originally moved out of the city to be closer to my work, which is how were were able to "reduce down" to owning 1 car. We rented almost across the street from my employer, when we bought our first place out here we were still within a mile or so, so riding, or walking when the weather was real bad wasn't hard. We have grocery stores, a post office, my kids' schools, a Saturday farmers market, even a Home Depot all wtihin a mile or two.

Even though I am no longer employed with that company (we run our own business) we are not moving back into the city. We live in a great nieghborhood, in a great house, it's just too much for us to give up.

My wife is taking advantage of our location more, she has started walking to the store, walking our kids to school, it's great. Who knows next spring maybe our car situation will change again.

I live in the burbs and am car lite. There are movie theaters, restaurants, grocery stores (including a health food place) and a Lowes 1/2 to 2 miles away. My daughters school is 4 blocks and the light rail is 6 blocks. In many ways, it is just as easy to be car free here as it would be downtown. My wife still uses the car quite a bit, but with three kids its pretty hard not to. She does her errands while my daughter is in preschool so she only has to drive out there once. My oldest daughter either carpools or walks to and from school. I have a 44 mile RT commute, which is the hardest thing about being car lite for us. It takes me about an hour each way if I take the light rail 15 miles and ride 7, or an hour and twenty minutes if I ride the whole way.

The major obstacles to being car free for us are 1. three tiny kids 2. no preschool close by 3. distance to doctors/hospitals 4. Difficulty of travel outside our nice 2 mile radius. During the summer months, I routinely run errands by bike with all three little ones but in the winter they just can't handle the cold for very long so I either leave them at home with my wife or take the car. My wife cannot pull all three of them for any practical distance and has a hard time managing the long, awkward load. Most of what we need is close by, but if we have to travel outside of our normal 2 mile radius it becomes difficult. Most of the roads leading away from our immediate area are high speed arterial with no bike lanes. There are some roads I don't feel comfortable traveling solo, let alone with little kids in tow.

I guess I qualify as a suburban lurker longing to be car free. Where I live is more of a growing rural/suburban area and you can't really get anywhere around here without a car. I work from home and order most of what I need/want online so my car usage is very low. My wife drives to work and does the grocery shopping etc. I would gladly move from this hell hole today if I could but it's not possible right now. Well, it's possible but not going to happen. Anyway, I do hope to be completely car free one day. For now I only get in a car if I'm forced to.

I guess I qualify as a suburban lurker longing to be car free. Where I live is more of a growing rural/suburban area and you can't really get anywhere around here without a car. I work from home and order most of what I need/want online so my car usage is very low. My wife drives to work and does the grocery shopping etc. I would gladly move from this hell hole today if I could but it's not possible right now. Well, it's possible but not going to happen. Anyway, I do hope to be completely car free one day. For now I only get in a car if I'm forced to.
Question: is there anything you could do right now to reduce your auto use?
Reason I ask is that at some point you may find yourself in a better neighbourhood, but still with a large appetite for mobility and the bad habits that go with it.

Question: is there anything you could do right now to reduce your auto use?
Reason I ask is that at some point you may find yourself in a better neighbourhood, but still with a large appetite for mobility and the bad habits that go with it.

Not really, my auto use is as minimal as it can be right now. I often go for several weeks without using a car and then it's usually for something like a trip to the dentist, eye doctor etc. If I could get to those places by bike or on public transportation I would.

I think the typical suburban building pattern is; some housing gets put in first, then they build a bit more then the retail might follow if there is enough housing to justify it. Eventually the area matures and becomes stable. But in the years you are waiting for the retail and other stuff to arrive a car is about your only choice. Mass transit is hit or miss depending on the wims of local government.

Just an observation from where I currently live. We used to be 11 miles to the nearest grocery store. Now I have one less than 2 miles, one at 5 miles and 2 Super Walmarts with associated strip malls with in 15 miles.:o We have a small community medical clinic, there is a Doc in the Box with emergency services about 12 miles away. Housing has gone from less than 5,000 in our township to over 15,000 in the past 9 years with an anticpated increase of at least 15,000 more in the next 3-5 years. The housing slow down should have minimal affect. Our economy is driven by a large military base that is getting addtional troops as part of the BRAC. Of course there is little planning going on and the road infrastructure is already showing signs of being inadequate...DOH! and have become much less cycling friendly. The last planning board meeting I was able to attend, the hot topic was how to get more big box stores to locate to the western end of the country where all the building is going on, rather than to the county just to the north. The military base sits on the southern end of the county, so limited development is possible in that area.

Just my observations on how things work in this part of the country.

Aaron:)

I think the typical suburban building pattern is; some housing gets put in first, then they build a bit more then the retail might follow if there is enough housing to justify it. Eventually the area matures and becomes stable.

We actually have some stores within biking distance, but there is no way to get to them by bike and live to tell about it. This area was pretty much rural when we moved here. It has since grown into a suburban nightmare with no planning, no controls, no improvements to infrastructure etc. I'm working on a plan to get out of here but it will be a few years before I can make it happen.

We actually have some stores within biking distance, but there is no way to get to them by bike and live to tell about it. This area was pretty much rural when we moved here. It has since grown into a suburban nightmare with no planning, no controls, no improvements to infrastructure etc. I'm working on a plan to get out of here but it will be a few years before I can make it happen.

Same basic problem where I am living. We are on 40 acres that is all that is left of my wife's family's farm that has been in the family for over 80 years. I suspect with the exponential increase in traffic counts in the next couple of years cycling will become impossible where I live. We are considering a relocation, but are dragging our feet a bit to see what happens to the overall economy. Currently both of our "real" jobs are heavily dependant on oil and ability to travel. We own a retail shop, but a heavy downturn in the economy could make it difficult to stay solvent and open. The main advantage to where I live now is the ability to keep small farm animals and have decent sized gardens. Something that is frown on in normal suburbia and inside town limits. There was a major stink in the town we are considering moving to over a woman keeping a couple of chickens in a small coop in her backyard. She has had them for years and years, it just came to light when a new neighbor that had just moved in crashed the fence in the back between their lots. Now of course is is against ordinance to have any "farm" animal inside the city limits, the question is did she have the chickens prior to the ordinance going into effect, if so she probably has a reasonable legal leg to stand on. I am already starting to have these types of problems where I live because of the encroachment of suburbia. But my land is zoned agricultural and the only way it will ever change is if we sell it. We do everything we can to maintain the agricultural zoning, I consider it to be a lifestation for the future.

Aaron:)

We used to want to live way out in a rural area. I did for a while and have some family that still does. I've kinda changed my mind in recent years though. 1 reason is that you never know when the monster that is suburban sprawl will start changing your peaceful world into a stressful one. Another reason is that we couldn't really do it without being at the mercy of the oil companies and all that goes along with that. Not that it couldn't be done. Good luck holding back the sprawl. There is a huge horse ranch down the road from us. It will probably be a massive shopping mall in the next 10 years. At some point the people who own the land just have to cash in and get out. It sure doesn't help matters but I don't blame them.

I live in the suburbs, I don't understand the issue at hand though.
I live in the suburbs...
Like most people who live here I also work in the suburbs....
We do have busses and cab service in the suburbs....
My legs still work even though I live in the suburbs...
My bikes work just fine on the roads in the suburbs.
:D

I think alot of people are under the misguided impression that those of us who live in the suburbs work 50 miles away in the largest city of the state and have nothing but limited access freeways to get us there.

Car-lite in Arlington VA, which I guess could be considered the exurbs...We just recently moved to a more densely developed area and shed one of our two cars. The wife drives to work most days, while I bike every day, but in 3 months her office is moving to within a mile of our house. Since moving a month ago, I've been in the car only once or twice, mainly trips to Home Depot and a paint store. Groceries, dining, and entertainment are all within blocks of us now.

I live in the suburbs, I don't understand the issue at hand though.
I live in the suburbs...
Like most people who live here I also work in the suburbs....
We do have busses and cab service in the suburbs....
My legs still work even though I live in the suburbs...
My bikes work just fine on the roads in the suburbs.
:D

I think alot of people are under the misguided impression that those of us who live in the suburbs work 50 miles away in the largest city of the state and have nothing but limited access freeways to get us there.

I think there is a wide variety of what we call suburbs. I grew up in suburbs where you could get around by bike okay. There was no bus or cab service though. If you live in the older suburbs close to the nearest city I live to, you can get around okay without a car. It's still not convenient, but possible. In the newer, further out suburbs it's just not really possible. Where I live the suburbs continue to grow further and further away from everything. Of course, then everything follows the money and it all gets overgrown and people move further and further out. Eventually the whole US will be suburbs with super walmarts and strip malls at regular intervals.

In the newer, further out suburbs it's just not really possible. Where I live the suburbs continue to grow further and further away from everything. Of course, then everything follows the money and it all gets overgrown and people move further and further out. Eventually the whole US will be suburbs with super walmarts and strip malls at regular intervals.
I guess that is sort of how the suburbs here came about. They grew out further and further until they reached another city. That's probably why this isn't *that* bad of a place, I'm in a suburban city of Detroit, but I'm only 1 mile from Mount Clemens which has everything you'd need, including Super Wal-Mart and some strip malls. ;)
It's still an easy place to ride so long as you're not scared of fast moving vehicles.

We actually have some stores within biking distance, but there is no way to get to them by bike and live to tell about it. This area was pretty much rural when we moved here. It has since grown into a suburban nightmare with no planning, no controls, no improvements to infrastructure etc. I'm working on a plan to get out of here but it will be a few years before I can make it happen.

Welcome to America! Unfortunately, there's a good chance that if you relocate, the new location will soon deteriorate as a result of ongoing sprawl. As long as the car is king, our "communities" will be designed to accomodate cars instead of people.

I guess that is sort of how the suburbs here came about. They grew out further and further until they reached another city. That's probably why this isn't *that* bad of a place, I'm in a suburban city of Detroit, but I'm only 1 mile from Mount Clemens which has everything you'd need, including Super Wal-Mart and some strip malls. ;)
It's still an easy place to ride so long as you're not scared of fast moving vehicles.I think you guys are right about suburbs eventually becoming denser and more livable.

When I was a kid in the 1950s, I lived in the Detroit suburb of Madison Heights. At that time, it was Sprawlville, and definitely not a good place to be carfree. I have a carfree friend who lives in Royal Oak (only a mile from where I once lived in Mad Heights) and she does pretty well. It's now pretty densely populated and there are many stores, restaurants, places to work within walking distance (she doesn't have a bike).

I don't know the technical term for this, but I call it "backfill": New businesses and buildings fill in the spaces between the earlier developments, eventually.

Just an observation from where I currently live. We used to be 11 miles to the nearest grocery store. :eek: WTF? That's in the suburbs, not on some remote rural farm? I would absolutely refuse to live in a place that doesn't have a large grocery store within a mile (unless it's in a rural setting). But then again I really wouldn't want to live in the 'burbs anyway.

I sort of live in the 'burbs. It's a college town. Nearest grocery (Piggly Wiggly) is 1.75 miles. Nearest grocery we actually go to is 3 miles ;)

We're car-lite. at least i like to think so.

I commute and run most minor errands via bike. Wife makes 1-2 car trips a week, she combines visiting reelatives in the area with whatever errands she has. we make a 30 mile r/t trip to church once a week.

a few times a year we go visit distant relatives or camp or something via car

the wife used to drive all the time. she drove 40-50k miles/yr. just driving around. I've been a good influence ;) she had no idea where her money was going, why she was broke.

We average somewhere around 5-8k miles per year on the car. I get 5-6k on the bike. between the 2 of us, we used to be about 55-65k miles/yr on cars 4 years ago. Big change for us :)

:eek: WTF? That's in the suburbs, not on some remote rural farm? I would absolutely refuse to live in a place that doesn't have a large grocery store within a mile (unless it's in a rural setting). But then again I really wouldn't want to live in the 'burbs anyway.

It was very rural when the store was 11 miles away, but in the past 10 years the population in this township has increased better than ten fold:( We still live on the farm and there are farms with in a reasonable distance of us, including an organic veggie farm) but they are getting separated by subdivisions just as fast as they can build them.

Aaron:)

I think you guys are right about suburbs eventually becoming denser and more livable.

When I was a kid in the 1950s, I lived in the Detroit suburb of Madison Heights. At that time, it was Sprawlville, and definitely not a good place to be carfree. I have a carfree friend who lives in Royal Oak (only a mile from where I once lived in Mad Heights) and she does pretty well. It's now pretty densely populated and there are many stores, restaurants, places to work within walking distance (she doesn't have a bike).

I don't know the technical term for this, but I call it "backfill": New businesses and buildings fill in the spaces between the earlier developments, eventually.

:D Roody I think the term urban planners use is "infill"...backfill is what I do to septic tanks when I put one in a large hole in the ground;):p

Aaron:)

:D Roody I think the term urban planners use

PLANNERS??? Man I wish we had some of those!

I live in the suburbs, I don't understand the issue at hand though.
I live in the suburbs...

Me and my Mrs moved to the burbs in August and neither of us drives. Here is what I like about the burbs:
1. Cheap real estate. For a fraction of what we were planning to spend on an appartment in Manhattan (1.5 - 2mm) we can buy a very reasonable house here (around 600k).
2. Hills. I certainly became a better climber since I moved.
3. Garage - more then enough space for our bikes, all 5 of them
However:
1. Commuting sucks. I used to ride about 4 miles from my appartment to work (took me some 12-15 min), now it's an hour affair that includes a train
2. No ammenities. The choice of food, wine etc is so limited (even with a car) that I find it repulsive
3. Booring. Now I understand why everyone in the burbs watches TV - there is nothing else to do once it gets dark.

It's been pretty rough so far and I am seriously considering moving back to Manhattan.

Me and my Mrs moved to the burbs in August and neither of us drives. Here is what I like about the burbs:
1. Cheap real estate. For a fraction of what we were planning to spend on an appartment in Manhattan (1.5 - 2mm) we can buy a very reasonable house here (around 600k).
2. Hills. I certainly became a better climber since I moved.
3. Garage - more then enough space for our bikes, all 5 of them
However:
1. Commuting sucks. I used to ride about 4 miles from my appartment to work (took me some 12-15 min), now it's an hour affair that includes a train
2. No ammenities. The choice of food, wine etc is so limited (even with a car) that I find it repulsive
3. Booring. Now I understand why everyone in the burbs watches TV - there is nothing else to do once it gets dark.

It's been pretty rough so far and I am seriously considering moving back to Manhattan.



Where you at? North Jersey, Long Island, etc?

p.s. Kudos to the Highlands Ranch folks. HR is always my default "miserably planned suburbs" example with it's seven lane arterials and windy Fox Trail Falcon Run etc streets, but cool to see people can do it.

Actually for a family in the suburbs it's a good opportunity to reduce to one car, provided whoever needs to commute can use transit. Highlands Ranch is actually pretty accessible to the two rail lines at the SW and SE ends of the city, so scaling down to one car would definitely be doable for many.