Commuting - Got yelled at hard today, did I deserve it?

Ok, so on the commute in, I really got cursed out good today. I feel (of course) like I was in the right, but I'll tell you what happened and let you decide.

Here is a map:Click Here (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=40.111114,-88.254697&spn=0.007812,0.020084&z=16&om=1&msid=111061780888135184324.00043d1618e8f3af1a9a4)

I was heading east on John to campus. There is a stop sign at Prospect, and Prospect is a major street, and does not stop (4 lanes).

There was a car in front of me at the stop sign trying to turn right. I checked behind me, there was a white Minivan about 200 yards back, so I took the lane since I was going straight. The van comes right up behind me and then proceeds to pull halfway into the oncoming lane to get in front of me. Well, I was calm but I didn't let him (I was thinking of my safety in crossing Prospect), I pulled my bike to the left, effectively blocking his way.

He opened his door, halfway got out and began yelling, "You're not a <much more entertaining words here> car." I remained calm, but flustered, and in a stern voice replied, "Same rules, same laws, what you are doing is dangerous and possibly illegal." It didn't get through, though he did get back in his car, still yelling mind you! Traffic cleared up, and I began to cross. He did too, turning left, and yelling among other insults, "I bet you run red lights &$%&*!"

His last comment irked me. This is partially why the JAMs don't like those of us who are assertive with our rights. Personally, I do not run lights, hardly ever. In fact, I am generally known to even sit at lights when no one is around (now saying this, I am not entirely innocent...), but this town is FULL of hundreds of cyclists who do whatever they please, do not know their rights/responsibilities, and cause general mayhem, especially closer to campus. I wish at the very least, more JAMs, and more cyclists understood the laws. I think it would at least help some.

I found a pdf online of the Illinois DOT laws that apply to bikes, I may get some card copies made and start handing them out!

Ok, rant mode off.

You were totally in the wrong.

Don't you know it's illegal to inconvenience drivers in any way shape or form? What you should have done, was go out into the intersection, stopped traffic, and waved the mini-van thru the intersection, because, really, he is that much more important than a lowly cyclist.

You were 100% correct and when bikes filter, run red lights and then stop lights what is this guy supposed to think?

Now, there is one of these bikers who thinks he is a car?!?!?! How confusing.

I dont blame the guy for being pissed.

You were 100% correct and when bikes filter, run red lights and then stop lights what is this guy supposed to think?

Now, there is one of these bikers who thinks he is a car?!?!?! How confusing.

I dont blame the guy for being pissed.

The same way he thinks of OTHER traffic on the road, whether it's a bike, ped, car or truck. :rolleyes:

I blame the driver for getting upset. We all could use better manners.

You are not responsible for other cyclists.

You did fine.

It was just another *****hole on the road...probably woulda got pissed no matter what vehicle you happened to be using - you got in his way. Don't let it bother you.

Dude, cars slow me down on my commute FAR more than I slow cars. Do I get annoyed? Yes. Do I get violently upset with the stupid @#$%s who aren't aware of other road users? :D Not really. So I say you're in the right: it doesn't sound like you did anything other than not give-up your right to use the road in a fair manner. Good job staying cool!

Who knows? Maybe he'll tell the story to someone who will set him straight on the law.

I run red lights......















and i like it

I run red lights......

and i like it

[muster as much super hero voice as can manage..]
Damn you zoltani!!!

There always has to be one huh? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ignore it and move on.

Thank you for obeying traffic laws and showing drivers that we ARE traffic. Its frustrating that others don't, but keep doing what you are doing.

I blame the driver for getting upset. We all could use better manners.

You are not responsible for other cyclists.

You did fine.

I just want to second this. Seems like a good guiding principle for any number of things. That is, it's not reasonable to lump all cyclists into a group. We cyclists could disparage anyone who has ever driven a car. We've all had bad experiences with them, right? But the fact is most drivers are competent and considerate. And as for the rest, it's just that cars make people insane.
And, yes, of course I run red lights. But very, very carefully.:)

I pulled my bike to the left, effectively blocking his way.


You were in the right, but in the future don't be shy about really taking the entire lane as early as possible. That way, cars won't be encouraged to pass you on the left. They can sidle past on the right instead.

You were in the right, but in the future don't be shy about really taking the entire lane as early as possible. That way, cars won't be encouraged to pass you on the left. They can sidle past on the right instead.

+1 to that. In my experience car drivers get less pissed if it's obvious from the outset that they can't get past than if they think they might be able to, start trying and then find they can't / are blocked. Perhaps it's a macho thing of not wanting to admit their judgement was wrong when they decided to try and go past.

There's a spot on my ride to work where a two-lane road crosses an intersection, and just past the intersection parking is allowed - so the left lane is blocked shortly after the lights. I used to move into the right lane, but only to a foot or two over the line - and I used to get cars trying to sidle past me, and getting irate when I wouldn't move over back across the line (and into the door zone). Now I ride unapologetically up the very centre of the lane through that section, and haven't had any aggro since I started doing it.

Tell him, "Right! I am a human. Not a car. Good observation."

You were in the right, but in the future don't be shy about really taking the entire lane as early as possible. That way, cars won't be encouraged to pass you on the left. They can sidle past on the right instead.

+1 to that. In my experience car drivers get less pissed if it's obvious from the outset that they can't get past than if they think they might be able to, start trying and then find they can't / are blocked. Perhaps it's a macho thing of not wanting to admit their judgement was wrong when they decided to try and go past.

There's a spot on my ride to work where a two-lane road crosses an intersection, and just past the intersection parking is allowed - so the left lane is blocked shortly after the lights. I used to move into the right lane, but only to a foot or two over the line - and I used to get cars trying to sidle past me, and getting irate when I wouldn't move over back across the line (and into the door zone). Now I ride unapologetically up the very centre of the lane through that section, and haven't had any aggro since I started doing it.

I definitely agree. Actually, I did take the lane. I was dead center in the lane, that's why the JAM had to go into oncoming lane, then I put my bike on the left most part of the lane blocking him. I am all about assertive cycling, I have every right to be in the lane when reasonable according to the law. This was a reasonable time :beer::beer::beer:

You did what I would have done.

And I'm always right...or something like that. ;)

I definitely agree. Actually, I did take the lane. I was dead center in the lane, that's why the JAM had to go into oncoming lane, then I put my bike on the left most part of the lane blocking him. I am all about assertive cycling, I have every right to be in the lane when reasonable according to the law.


Then you did good. :D

Did he stop behind you and then open his door to have his rant? Or was he alongside, straddling the centre? Either way, him stopping like that can hardly have been a very safe maneouver in itself.

Then you did good. :D

Did he stop behind you and then open his door to have his rant? Or was he alongside, straddling the centre? Either way, him stopping like that can hardly have been a very safe maneouver in itself.

He did stop behind me actually. I was thinking about how unsafe his move was after the fact and how I should have said something, but wit only goes so far in the moment right?

"You're not a <much more entertaining words here> car."

My favorite come-back to "You're not a car" was posted by someone here on BF a while back. I can't remember who said this but (he claimed) this actually happened. I'm doing this from memory, but here goes:

Driver: You're not a car, you know.

Cyclist: You're right, I'm a motorcycle.

Driver (looking at bicycle): Where's the motor?

Cyclist: You're talking to it.

^^^ That's a pretty good one. My favorite reply is a simple "neither are you"

I run red lights......


and i like it

Then you sir, are just like a growing number of drivers on the road. This morning on my way in, I'm approaching a red light. Nobody at the intersection in any direction. The car that passed me decided that he didn't see the red and drove as if there really was nothing there.

SO I'll say it again - I obey the traffic laws just like the motorists in my city.

(and since it seems that more and more of them don't, I don't feel bad about blowing a stop sign every day - since guess what, there are hundreds of cars that do the same thing every day at that very spot)

In our small town, driving IN town is safer than the hiways. The JAMs in town just get confused about a bicycle taking the lane rather than irate. If I'm the first at a stop light, I always take the center of the lane. The 2 where I have the biggest problem is the one at Walmart and the one at the grocery store/McDonalds center. I can see the impatience on faces in my mirror, but they seem to respect it. I'm fortunate.
The hiways are another matter. I get honked at a lot...I thinks it's the spandex!

You should have done what anyone else in their right mind would have .... tell him to go F__K his mother !!!!!

=)

It's tough when the inconsiderate cyclists that car drivers deal with most of the time make a bad impression for everyone. I'm beginning to think that I might be the only cyclist in Philadelphia that obeys traffic code, and people are just as irate when they see me obeying the law opposed to breaking it.

You were within your rights, but remember that people will always battle to the death to move one yard closer to the stop line.

A bicyclist will always lose in a confrontation (accident) with a car. This bonehead may have done you a favor. Even if you're in the right, it doesn't do you any good if your next ride is in an ambulance or worse. My strategy is to ride defensively, aggressively if it it's the safe option, and try not to get distracted by the "road noise"

I definitely agree. Actually, I did take the lane. I was dead center in the lane, that's why the JAM had to go into oncoming lane, then I put my bike on the left most part of the lane blocking him. I am all about assertive cycling, I have every right to be in the lane when reasonable according to the law. This was a reasonable time :beer::beer::beer:
I wonder if they would have passed a small car or motorcycle in the same way. I've had that happen to me a few times when I was driving over the years.
What you did reminds me of when cars are passing in the break down lane and a car, or tractor trailer, will move over and partially block the lane. It was always funny to watch as I sat there in traffic. It got funnier if there was a statey just waiting on the other side of the hill or at the exit ramp ticketing all the folks rushing down the break down lane.
Sometimes I wish a police officer would be there to see these motorists but even when they are they tend to ignore htem anyhow :(

You should have done what anyone else in their right mind would have .... tell him to go F__K his mother !!!!!

=)
Dude! The OP lives above the mason-dixon line... :p

Dude! The OP lives above the mason-dixon line... :p

Ohh, so he can tell the cager to Eff the president ! !!

He opened his door, halfway got out and began yelling, "You're not a <much more entertaining words here> car."

"Correct. I am a human. What are you?"


I remained calm, but flustered, and in a stern voice replied, "Same rules, same laws, what you are doing is dangerous and possibly illegal." It didn't get through, though he did get back in his car, still yelling mind you! Traffic cleared up, and I began to cross. He did too, turning left, and yelling among other insults, "I bet you run red lights &$%&*!"

Not one of the world's great thinkers there. You don't lose any points for failing to educate people like that. Best to just ignore them. Or ridicule them.

Often drivers approaching a cyclist from behind as both are approaching a stop sign will feel they have the right to pass the cyclist, if they can, before the stop sign. It's a kind of territorial imperative. Keep in mind that even in the most congested of urban environments we've catered to the automobile since the 1920's and given them major status in road usage and design. Which is why the driver feels like their world has been turned upside down when a cyclist does not give way as expected.

Finally, in many cities we've reached a tipping point of congestion and combined with higher gas prices the automobile is losing it's status. I would anticipate occasional bouts of anger from drivers unwilling to acknowledge this new reality. My suggestion would be to choose your battles carefully. Sometimes I can tell from the way a car is approaching that it is an aggressive driver who's going to try to cut me off- when need be, despite my right, I will sometimes give way just to avoid an ugly confrontation. From your description you did nothing "wrong" but only you know if you might have made a decision to move right that would have prevented the conflict.

My suggestion would be to choose your battles carefully. Sometimes I can tell from the way a car is approaching that it is an aggressive driver who's going to try to cut me off- when need be, despite my right, I will sometimes give way just to avoid an ugly confrontation. From your description you did nothing "wrong" but only you know if you might have made a decision to move right that would have prevented the conflict.
+ 1,000,000

In my experience, a lot of these encounters are predictable and I too try to avoid them. It's not really worth it, and I'm not a crusader who wants to educate every stupid motorist about cyclist rights. I want to get from A to B in one peice, and preferably without losing my temper. If this means yeilding to the occassional idiot, then so be it.

Often drivers approaching a cyclist from behind as both are approaching a stop sign will feel they have the right to pass the cyclist, if they can, before the stop sign.
Agreed. I think the point-of-view is that 1) they think they will be passing you after the sign, so you might as well let them pass you now, and 2) as long as you're in front of them, they have to worry about not hitting you (once they pass you they can go back on autopilot.