Fifty Plus (50+) - I is purty smart fer a Fifty plusser (somewhat technical)

Of course, I'd like to think so. Wouldn't we all?

Well, I didn't feel so smart when I decided to tweak my front derailleur the night before a planned 40 mile run down the coast (and back. can't forget back). Naturally, fate intervened when my poor little pup reacted badly to her new food and I was stuck home on a "Vet Watch" (do we go? do we not?). Pup ended up fine but my day was shot. I was in such a p*ss-poor funk that Mrs S basically kicked me out of the house to get some miles in.

Alas, it was not to be... I had broken the spring retainer and had no front gears (unless I felt like shifting the chain from ring to ring by hand. nope). So, I needed an emergency derailler and found one but it was a 105. Well, my RD is a 105 and that doesn't seem to have any problems and the LBS (. new shop. some really nice guys for a change) assured me it would work.

So, Tiagra shifters, 105 front, 105 read, 9-speed cluster. Works fine. But for one thing. A 10-speed chain is slightly thinner than a 9-speed chain and the 105 FD cage is also so the chain rubs under load more than I would like.

Now, it just might be that I need to tweak the FD alignment and adjustment a bit but do I need a new chain? Will the rub not be able to be adjusted out?

Which brings forth the now larger question: can I use a 10-speed chain on a 9-speed cluster?
Options? Opinions? Thoughts?

You are tempting fate.

Keep on tweakin'. My guess would be that the derailleur alignment is slightly off. May take some trial and error to get it just right. If the narrow cage is really the problem, you may be able to make it wider by putting a thin washer on the bolt holding the rear of the cage closed. Place it between the mating surfaces of the cage, forcing them slightly apart.

Keep on tweakin'. My guess would be that the derailleur alignment is slightly off. May take some trial and error to get it just right. If the narrow cage is really the problem, you may be able to make it wider by putting a thin washer on the bolt holding the rear of the cage closed. Place it between the mating surfaces of the cage, forcing them slightly apart.

That's pretty much what I would have said, if I knew what I was talking about.

First of all you can use a 10 spd chain on the 9 speed system- but I think the problem is down to adjustment. Time to see how good the new shop is if you can't adjust out- run the bike down to them and a 1 minute check by them should correct it.

I assume you got a triple FD? which is longer than the double FD.

Getting the FD aligned is always a pain, especially with a triple (I think you have a triple, right?). This plus no hills is another reason I went to a double, it was just too much of a pain to keep the FD in adjustment when I did use it. Just keep tweaking it.

I have a 9 speed Dura Ace rear DR and cassette, with a 10 speed front DR and 10 speed double chain ring. I had chain rub on the front DR, and no amount of "tweaking" would solve it until I switched to a 10 speed chain. Replace the chain. An easy cheap solution.

I have a 9 speed Dura Ace rear DR and cassette, with a 10 speed front DR and 10 speed double chain ring. I had chain rub on the front DR, and no amount of "tweaking" would solve it until I switched to a 10 speed chain. Replace the chain. An easy cheap solution.

At my hardware store, tiny washers cost much less than 10 speed chains. :D

Old Goats who run bar end friction shifters don't even understand this problem.

I did a charity ride last weekend, wound up riding for a bit with a youngster who looked at my Trek 520 and couldn't figure out how I shifted. He had never even heard of friction shifting.

Cool. It sounds like I get this done with just a bit more tweaking. I like to tweak, it's a great way to learn. First lesson learned: don't break things :lol: It appeared to me last night on the road that the cage might not be perfectly parallel to the rings so that looks like a good place to start.

The washer is also a good -and cheap- fix but that screw is awfully short. Might need a washer AND a screw... still looking at, like, a buck and some change.

I sure do like the "crisper" feel of the 105 as compared with the Tiagra. Nice to know I can keep it :)

Regarding the shop, I called about a new FD and they needed the size of the clamp. So, I took off the clamp (and then saw what I did wrong the night before), called them back and, when I read the size stamped on the inside of the clamp, they immediately said, "Oh, it's an aluminum frame and it's a braze-on derailleur". I was pretty impressed.

These 2 pages are your friends:

http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/blevel.jsp?JSESSIONID=HpVJYPNKNHTg1Y4yYg8MdGLnw6M1V6WLvTCPrz1pyR3Q4rXq7zyQ!895077036&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181679&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302051113&bmUID=1193153865329

http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html

On the first web site, match up the model number of your new front derailleur to the model number of the tech info. The model # of the front derailleur is stamped on the frame side of the inner guide in small numbers (magnifying glass probably needed -- 50+ eyes...). The Shimano docs have adjustment instructions. One important thing is the height of the outer guide above the big ring when the derailleur is all the way out (over the big ring). This helps it shift to the big ring well. Parallel allingment to the rings is also critical.

That stuff if explained on the Sheldon Brown web page, scroll down about half way for the "three front derailleur adjustments" section.

If you like to tinker, this will keep you busy for days....have fun.

Well, sure, I know about the Shimano doc... it came with the derailleur, right?
But you hit the nail on the proverbial head about the 50+ eyes... discerning parallel is tricky.
I tried with my progressives... maybe I'll give it a shot with my reading glasses.
I will say that moving the clamp around has made a bit of a mess out of my frame's paint job :(
I'll get over it. Better to run good than to look good.

Speaking of "look", I'll go look at Sheldon Brown's site, too. A storehouse of knowledge, that man is.

SKT:

And I forgot the Park Tool website:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/bikemap.asp

Yes, the Shimano doc is good...if you got one with your new derailleur, which it sounds like you did, so that is good. As you know, you don't get one with a new bike...have to download it or buy a new derailleur.

Height, alignment, low stop, high stop, then cable length/barrel adjustments to get it to center on the middle ring and shift to the small ring without dumping it off the inside (low stop) or off the outside ring (high stop). Things can get very exciting when it dumps off the outside...especially when shifting up for a downhill run...

SKT:

And I forgot the Park Tool website:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/bikemap.asp

Yes, the Shimano doc is good...if you got one with your new derailleur, which it sounds like you did, so that is good. As you know, you don't get one with a new bike...have to download it or buy a new derailleur.

Height, alignment, low stop, high stop, then cable length/barrel adjustments to get it to center on the middle ring and shift to the small ring without dumping it off the inside (low stop) or off the outside ring (high stop). Things can get very exciting when it dumps off the outside...especially when shifting up for a downhill run...

Right, of course! Park Tool is a treasure for their site AND their tools.

It's really nice to get all the "stuff" with a new derailleur; the great instructions (in, like, a dozen languages), the Pro-Set block, the post-it with the chainring clearance printed on it... It's fun.
Which reminds me, I think I need to lower the cage a little, too.

Tweaking derailleurs is fun.
You just need a little common sense and pay attention to detail.
Too bad I didn't know that last Friday :\
But my biggest worry is not tightening the cable enough.
It takes 55-60 NM which is the same as my cleats.
It's a pretty good crank on the wrench.

And on Monday, I overshifted the big ring just as I was gearing up to sprint this short little slope.
I like to get the gear way up there, hit 90-100RPM and run up that slope at 20-25 mph.
That came to halt pretty darned fast.

OK, quick update... I sighted down on the cage/chain rings and it sure looked parallel, though it also sure doesn't act like it. So, I slackened up the cable, loosened the clamp and gave it a little twist. Tightened it all up again and beauty! Big and small chainrings are pretty darned quiet, though the middle ring still has some rubbing problems in the lower gears that I have to sort out. The trim ain't quite all that, either. If I can get the barrel adjuster to turn, I'll be in business. But I got a great 15 miles in last night (and got to try out my new CygoLite 200 :D) and I'm still amazed at how much more srisply the 105 shifts as compared to the Tiagra it replaced, especially going up to the big ring. Sweet.

You could always put a straight edge on the outer gear and measure to the cage....