English 3 Speed, Armstrong & Raleigh
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
English 3 Speed, Armstrong & Raleigh
Hi all,
Here are a pair of bikes that followed me home today. One is a red men's Armstrong, the other is a Woman's Raleigh. I think the Armstrong's from 1964 (it has a 64 on the hub). The Raleigh has a 77 on the hub, but i don't know if that would be the year or not -- seems recent for an English 3 speed.
English 3 speed expert's opinions?
many thanks,
John
Here are a pair of bikes that followed me home today. One is a red men's Armstrong, the other is a Woman's Raleigh. I think the Armstrong's from 1964 (it has a 64 on the hub). The Raleigh has a 77 on the hub, but i don't know if that would be the year or not -- seems recent for an English 3 speed.
English 3 speed expert's opinions?
many thanks,
John
#2
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
14 Posts
Well seeing how (IIRC) SA didn't completely shut down until around '99/2000... I have a couple of SA hubs from the mid 80's so 1977 is very believable. The Armstrong I have no clue on.
Aaron
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#5
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,813
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1397 Post(s)
Liked 1,336 Times
in
842 Posts
At various times in the late 1960s I have owned two English 3-speed bikes, a Hercules with a 9-speed cyclo conversion, and an Armstrong with a 12-speed conversion. Thanks for posting.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
My Pleasure. . .
Hints and suggestions gladly accepted!
#8
Viscount
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gloucester, England.
Posts: 1,016
Bikes: Mercian, Viscount x2, Holdworth La Quelda, Gundle Trade Bike, Williams/Mercian Tourer, Itera,
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Hi all,
Here are a pair of bikes that followed me home today. One is a red men's Armstrong, the other is a Woman's Raleigh. I think the Armstrong's from 1964 (it has a 64 on the hub). The Raleigh has a 77 on the hub, but i don't know if that would be the year or not -- seems recent for an English 3 speed.
English 3 speed expert's opinions?
many thanks,
John
Here are a pair of bikes that followed me home today. One is a red men's Armstrong, the other is a Woman's Raleigh. I think the Armstrong's from 1964 (it has a 64 on the hub). The Raleigh has a 77 on the hub, but i don't know if that would be the year or not -- seems recent for an English 3 speed.
English 3 speed expert's opinions?
many thanks,
John
Compare it with my 1978 model here:
Not much difference except for the chain-guard and maybe the bars are slightly different.
#9
holyrollin'
These pictures are 'as found' (see the dump finds thread). I'm working on a Ross Europa 3speed (side-of-the-road discard) right now (the fork, chainguard, and fenders are in my living room!). I'll be assembling it over the next few days. I have a couple of bikes in front of the Armstrong and LTD-3, but i'm looking forward to the clean-up and tune-up of these two bikes.
Hints and suggestions gladly accepted!
Hints and suggestions gladly accepted!
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php...ht=oxalic+acid
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php...ht=oxalic+acid
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php...ht=oxalic+acid
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php...ht=oxalic+acid
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php...ht=oxalic+acid
#11
Smiling and Waving
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Merrickville,Canada
Posts: 364
Bikes: -
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
All I could come up with is this reference to Armstrong being part of The TI Group and was purchased prior to TI buying Raleigh.
The TI Group(formerly Tube Investments) was a holding company for various specialised engineering companies. The three major divisions were John Crane International, a manufacturer of mechanical seals; Bundy Corporation, a tubing manufacturer and supplier to the refrigeration and automotive industries; and Dowty Group plc, an aerospace company.
History
The business was registered in 1919 as a public company combining the following seamless steel tube manufacturing companies: Tubes Limited, New Credenda Tube (later known as Creda), Star Tube, and St. Helen's Tube and Metal.
The TI Group(formerly Tube Investments) was a holding company for various specialised engineering companies. The three major divisions were John Crane International, a manufacturer of mechanical seals; Bundy Corporation, a tubing manufacturer and supplier to the refrigeration and automotive industries; and Dowty Group plc, an aerospace company.
History
The business was registered in 1919 as a public company combining the following seamless steel tube manufacturing companies: Tubes Limited, New Credenda Tube (later known as Creda), Star Tube, and St. Helen's Tube and Metal.
- 1919Accles & Pollock (tube makers) was purchased.
- 1928Reynolds Tube was purchased.
- 1928Ivan Stedeford joins company.
- 1935Ivan Stedeford elected CEO.
- 1944Ivan Stedeford elected Chairman.
- 1946Swallow Coachbuilding Co. (1935) Ltd.
- 19?? The British Cycle Corporation subsidiary was formed which eventually composed of the following cycle companies:
- Phillips Cycles
- Hercules Cycles (No connection with the German Hercules company)
- Armstrong
- Rudge Whitworth
- Norman Cycles
- Sun Cycles
- 1958/9 The Aluminium War
- 1960Raleigh Industries joined the group bringing with it:
- BSA Cycles
- J. B. Brookes
- Raleigh was given control of the TI cycle business, which then controlled 75% of the UK market
- 1963 Bought Russell Hobbs, kettle manufacturers
- 1963Ivan Stedeford retires as Chairman & CEO and assumes title of Life President.
- 1987 Raleigh was sold.
- 1987 Creda was sold to GEC Group
- 1992 Dowty Group plc was purchased
- 1996 Accles & Pollock was sold to Hay Hall Group.
- 2000 On 18 September2000Smiths Group announced its intention to merge with TI Group. The merger was completed on 4 December. Smiths divested TI's automotive business shortly after the merger.
Last edited by thebikeguy; 10-25-07 at 08:45 PM.
#12
Smiling and Waving
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Merrickville,Canada
Posts: 364
Bikes: -
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I also found this.....
"An Armstrong 3-speed is a decent mid-range quality bike similar to a Dunelt or Robin Hood in finish etc. Solid and dependable and nothing wrong with that! Armstrong was part of the big BCC (British Cycles Corp) conglomorate that was centred on Birmingham and environs: Phillips, Hercules etc. etc. Their real focus in the 1950s was on their wonderful club bikes and Armstrong's lightweights of that era were top-notch and prized today. The "Moth" was the most famous of them but they had a number of others."
-unknown contributor-
"An Armstrong 3-speed is a decent mid-range quality bike similar to a Dunelt or Robin Hood in finish etc. Solid and dependable and nothing wrong with that! Armstrong was part of the big BCC (British Cycles Corp) conglomorate that was centred on Birmingham and environs: Phillips, Hercules etc. etc. Their real focus in the 1950s was on their wonderful club bikes and Armstrong's lightweights of that era were top-notch and prized today. The "Moth" was the most famous of them but they had a number of others."
-unknown contributor-
#13
Señor Wences
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Raleigh was controlling the strings for a lot of the British bicycle industry, but; Armstrongs were not re-badged Raleighs. They were their own animal. What I mostly recall from comparing them in the bike store at the time was that they were lighter and simpler bicycles than the Raleigh offerings which were considerably more upscale. I don't think I ever saw an Armstrong in any color other than the Red shown in the photos above. Definitely an economy product, but a very nice one. It's a very nimble design as well.
#14
Smiling and Waving
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Merrickville,Canada
Posts: 364
Bikes: -
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
No,I don't think I agree with you there.In 1960, TI bought all Raleigh shares, then handed over the British Cycle Corporation to Raleigh management.Seeing as Armstrong was part of the BCC,naturally they fell under the Raleigh wing.Armstrongs were "their own animal" prior to that.They became a lower end Raleigh like the Glider and SuperCycle(lesser models than the Raleigh,RobinHood and Dunelt)after the amalgamation.A little more economy minded and marketed as such(usually for dep't and hardware stores).Those are definately Raleigh lugs on the head tube.
Last edited by thebikeguy; 10-26-07 at 12:51 AM.
#16
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
14 Posts
Just as a side note to the above history. 1954 was the last year Hercules was produced as an independant brand, by 1955 they became a rebadged Raleigh, and about that same time production was moved from Birmingham to Nottingham. Also remember in the 30's-50's Great Britian had massive problems with gasoline shortages, so bicycles were a big business.
Aaron
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#17
Señor Wences
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
My post was more to do with the design. They were quite different from the Raleighs of the time. The term "rebadged" generally denotes a product that is identical with a different label.
No,I don't think I agree with you there.In 1960, TI bought all Raleigh shares, then handed over the British Cycle Corporation to Raleigh management.Seeing as Armstrong was part of the BCC,naturally they fell under the Raleigh wing.Armstrongs were "their own animal" prior to that.They became a lower end Raleigh like the Glider and SuperCycle(lesser models than the Raleigh,RobinHood and Dunelt)after the amalgamation.A little more economy minded and marketed as such(usually for dep't and hardware stores).Those are definately Raleigh lugs on the head tube.
#18
Smiling and Waving
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Merrickville,Canada
Posts: 364
Bikes: -
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Still not a believer?You should check Sheldon Brown's(www.sheldonbrown.com) or Tony Hadland's(www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/raleigh.htm) sites.That's where I found most of this info.Tony's site is more British specific(because that's where he is)than Sheldon's but they're BOTH excellent sites.
#19
motiheal
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: long island ny
Posts: 28
Bikes: have owned over a hundred
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I have an Armstrong Ross that I would like to show here-- could someone tell me how to add a pic? New member, John, motiheal@yahoo.com
#20
motiheal
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: long island ny
Posts: 28
Bikes: have owned over a hundred
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
here is the armstrong ross, with the pic from flickr. by the way, i spoke with sherwood ross , former president of ross bicycles who is retired in florida and still does bike safety consulting, and he verified that ross had imported armstrongs in the early '60s (actually, i spoke with him twice, and the first time he said late '60s). i am curious about my bike, and think it's really cool. if you look around the web, like yahoo images, a number of other armstrong references have the ross seat tube decal. anyone know about this one? it's a five speed, huret allvit derailleur, wrights saddle, unmarked brakes. the headbadge is the same as ctjohna's. i rode it to work on a 16 mile round-trip commute last month, but just starting home, something went wrong internally, i think in the rear hub, and the bike had resistance so it wouldn't go more than 5 mph with effort-- what a workout. i will repair this soon. it has no aluminum on it save for the pletscher rack.
john, motiheal@yahoo.com
https://www.flickr.com/photos/15297401@N03/1604294674/
john, motiheal@yahoo.com
https://www.flickr.com/photos/15297401@N03/1604294674/
Last edited by motiheal; 11-11-07 at 07:59 PM. Reason: misspell
#21
The Legitimiser
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 4,849
Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
Raleighs like that one were definitely being produced into the 80s.
#23
Newbie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
'65 Armstrong
Looking at one tonight... says all original except the tires. It may follow me home too... I might be in trouble with this newfound vintage bike fixation... I'd like to think it will make me a better man ;-)
#24
Senior Member
In post #4 , you had a shot of the non drive side seat stay. It looked slightly bent in. Is that a curved stay or supposed to be straight? This is concerning the red Armstrong.
Nice project regardless!
edit: corrected to the stay I was referring to.
Nice project regardless!
edit: corrected to the stay I was referring to.
Last edited by 3speedslow; 09-13-18 at 12:49 PM. Reason: mis spoke
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times
in
85 Posts
I really miss the OP date on the main page. Old 3 speeds have been a hobby of mine for a long time. It's great fun, not very expensive and will positively make you a better man! Get back to us when you get it home.