Framebuilders - small scale

well, i saw the post about building without reamers, and I along with others i'm guessing, want to know how small of a work space can you work with? minimum tools? I would love to build my own frame, but it is quite a lot up front for something that can be strictly a hobby for someone who is a perfectionist (myself)

It's a personal matter I suppose. Many builders work out of quite modest shops--size wise. And you don't need much room if you aren't going to stock up on machine tools. Frames can be built without jigs and surface plates and machine tools. The tooling you must have can be dictated by what you LBS has as far as threading and reaming and facing is concerned. For just a few frames--and as I'll be building my first couple--pay the LBS to use those expensive tools. And pay particular attention to the quality of their work on the first one.

You need room for a full-sized frame drawing and room to safely run a torch and do any other regular bike type mechanic work. That's it as far as I know--assuming someone else will paint it. As a student of the Paterek Manual, I have to recommend a surface plate for precision measuring--which can be covered and used as a workbench when not in use as a true surface. I use the backside of a discarded tombstone.

Wokspace is not a large requirement, particularly if it opens to the outside and you can get good ventilation for your work to the out of doors. You could probably get the pipe fitting done with nothing more complicated than a good vise, a few files, and a very fine toothed hacksaw. A drill would also be required from time to time.

A basement shop is not appropriate for any of the hot work, with the possible exception of tacking with a tig machine, though the problem there is that you can get a piece of hot filler dropping away, and you can't actually see the flames start up thorugh the welding shield. Overall I would only do it in something like a garage with cement or earth floor. You can do some welding and brazing out of doors, but it is difficult to see what you are doing with bright light all around. Gas shielded welding processes will not work in even light breezes. Frames have been made with Mapp gas torches and cheap OA rigs, the latter are pretty cheap for OA, but you can't grow with them so it is pretty much moeny thrown away.

I have reached the point on my path, when adding another craft is normally fairly marginal in cost for me, because I have a huge base. I can't say the same for bike building. The frame prep tools, and the joining tools be they torch or welding are really expensive. Most of the posters on frame forum are recovering some costs through selling some frames, but I don't see that as practical given liability. While people do get by a on a shoestring it isn't all that easy.

There appear to be two kinds of cheap builders. Those who like me have access to a huge range of non-bikebuiling tools, know how to use them, and can see how expensive tools might be knocked off in the home shop, particularly stuff like jigs. You would need a lot of sophistication to be able to make your own taps. Though it is possible with a lathe, mill , and some heat treating knowledge: I have huge respect for Frank as a guitar repairman, but he is not doing anything here a lot of folks can't do. Elsewhere, he does harden tools, but for a BB tap one would need to send it too a heat treater and it might cost about 10 bucks each for the HT. http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Machining/Projects/19mmTap/19mmtap.html

The other cheapos are the guys who have managed to make stuff with very little of anything in the way of tools. I like this guy's efforts:

http://www.sonic.net/~maryking/

Velonomad also inspired me with one of his builds, though I don't know if he blogged any of them.

I would also look at both the atomic zombie book, and their website. That guy can weld anything with a DC stick welder. TIG and mig are relatively recent arrivals, and the second world war was largely fabricated without their benefit. People used to arc aluminum (AC required), just about anything. Al tubing is thicker for a given weight, which makes the moves a little easier.

Another expertise not reflected in framebuilding is aero frame builders. There are really well know guys out there building top dollar frames out of either 100% aircraft tubing; Bike tubing that fabricates like aircraft 4130, because it is similar just thinned in the middle where we hardly touch it; or are using a combination of the above with just the odd formed tube or other like a chainstay, but it welds just like 4130. There is a large contingent of aircraft framebuilders out there working in 4130. They gas weld their tubes which is a lot cheaper than TIG. They also have chapters all across the US and Canada just looking for folks to get involved. Check out the EAA.

One other minor point is that oxy propane can be a superior fuel in a standard torch. One can use the same cylinder to run a BBQ, torch, Pottery kiln, Blacksmith's forge, etc... Propane while not to be triffled with, might have some safety or insurance benefits should a fire ever occur since, your gas choice is in almost every household in america. Accetalyne has some odd properties like detonation if somethig falls on a hose. I don't have the expertise to speak to these issues overall, these are just some safety and economic issues to consider.

I have nothing to add to the above except to say that there is a lot of information on the internet about do-it-yourself framebuilding and blogs by amateur builders, I have never taken the time to blog what I do other than what I post here. Here are a couple of old posts that are relevant where there is not only my comments but the comments of others who are better at framebuilding than I am.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=223168
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=158447

Here is a great site by Suzy Jackson she takes you through her experiences and not only shows her progress ,but more admirably she shows her setbacks too.
http://www.littlefishbicycles.com/framebuilding.html

I work in my two-car garage, which is so full of bikes and such that it's essentially a one-car garage. I park my wife's car on the street when I'm building.

Some of the most important tools, IMO, are a good hacksaw and an assortment of files. The price difference between a good saw and and an average one is only a few dollars, so I don't know why anyone puts up with a crappy saw. With files, I get a lot of use out of a 10" *******, 10" half-round double cut, and an 8" fine. I also use a 10" rat tail. I set of jeweler's files is useful for cleanup.

I have a small drill press that sees a lot of use. A hand drill would do the job, but not as accurately. A "pocket size" set of bits will do.

Most of my jigging is made out of angle iron, which is definitely the entry-level side of things, but cheaper than anything else. You can see pics on my "Garage Build" thread on this sub-forum. I use a Bernz-O-Matic Mapp/air torch which is also extremely entry-level, but does work. I keep thinking about going to an oxy/propane set-up, but I'm not planning on building more than a couple of frames a year, so...

******* file. LMAO.

******* file. LMAO.
'tis funny.

now wonder if a smallmouth fish takes a crap--would that be a bass turd?

okay--so now we have a fishpoop file.

great thing we're not dog breeders talking about *****es.