Advocacy & Safety - Portland:Red Light Camera Nabs 226 vehicles in First Day of Operation

Thanks for the insight.

Now consider this: most cyclists, at least the ones I know, understand the law very well as it applies to themselves, and every stop sign they run is a decision made consciously based on the absence of other traffic at the intersection. I can't comment on the cyclists you see, but again, most cyclists I know also know they are supposed to stop and wait for traffic signals, and they do.

Contrast this with motorists operating in the vicinity of cyclists on the road. Every indication is that they are either completely clueless, misinformed or only partially informed as to where cyclists are legally allowed to operate in the right of way. Most of them simply understand the very basic concept, as Kruger was quoted in the Sunday Oregonian: cyclists must stay as far to the right as practical/possible (or on the left if the street is one way). Most motorists think that means two feet from the curb or the parked cars, and they they have absolutely no understanding of when cyclists are allowed to take the lane based on conditions. In my opinion, this is the critical education component that is missing, and if the police refuse to provide complete and correct information, who are the motorists supposed to get the information from?I think we're almost saying the same thing: cyclists intentionally break the law, motorists stupidly break the law (disregarding for the moment the fact that motorists intentionally break the law in regards to speed limit-- although if cyclists were *capable* of speeding, they probably would break that law too).

Now, to answer your question, motorists won't get information from the police, nor should they, because the police don't know what they're talking about. I have some ideas about countering Kruger, but unfortunately, I'm at graduate or fail time, and can't make the time to tackle Kruger this week. The timing sucks.

After this week, that will be one of the things I'm working on.

Funny... I can't remember a red light that I didn't see a car run. They almost never stop when making a right turn, and there's always at least one that enters the intersection AFTER the light changes to red to rush across the street.

I've seen some lights so bad that the red light runners use half of the oncoming traffic's green light... and in some cases (Fairly rare) I've seen cross traffic block the intersection for the entire green light signal for the opposing traffic.

Frogger in crosswalks? Sure, the cyclists may dart through, but I've had a much harder time with motorists making illegal turns, or stopping either in or fully across the crosswalk. I hardly ever run across a motorist that actually stops for people in the crosswalk unless the crosswalk is so full they'd hit 10 or more people at once.

okay, Who would slow down more? Most cars slow down to barely moving.....most bikes around here dont even stop pedalling.

So answer me that and then we can continue here

When a car is barely moving, it's moving along at around 5 or 6 mph.
When a bike is barely moving, it's probably not moving at all. 5 or 6 mph is a leisurely pace for a bike, a full 40% of what the average casual rider ever attains on a bike, and, unless in descent, your speed from 5 or 6 mph will degrade quickly if you stop pedaling.

Our perception of cars can be deceiving. We are so used to seeing them move along at 60 or more mph that they appear to be standing still when moving at only 5 mph.

Still, they are moving, and if they move through a stop sign at that speed, they are breaking the law as surely as a cyclist would be at that speed.

Which brings us back to reality.

Is it unsafe when autos almost stop at stop signs? Probably not, which is why many cops don't enforce the complete stop against motorists who are, otherwise, driving safely (no different than the propensity of most enforcement agencies to forgive up to 10 mph over posted speed in most speed zones).

I'm not talking about slowing to 5 mph ahead of time and coasting through. I'm talking about the 90% who brake their autos with increasing intensity as they approach the stop line, come to an almost complete stop, then, release the brake and proceed when it is clear or their ROW is established.

This typical driving behavior is the reason why the 4-way stop sign remains one of the most efficient traffic controls at 4-way intersections, which is why it's a little ridiculous to focus on that behavior by motorists or cyclists as some sort of scourge on the driving population.

Only the most anal of cops would ticket a motorist or cyclist for such an infraction in the absence of other aggravating circumstances - most motorists have no idea that they are actually breaking the law in those situations (again, reference to speed enforcement applies - it's not as though you can't get stopped and ticketed for traveling 5 mph faster than the posted speed - it's just that most cops on a normal day won't bother you because it really isn't a safety hazard).

Blowing a stop sign or running a light is a totally different situation, and I guarantee you that the intersections around the country where cams are being installed are not simple four-way set-ups. They are probably complex intersections with relatively high speeds where typical driver behavior coupled with the traffic controls in place are not adequate to prevent collisions (vehicle to vehicle, vehicle to pedestrian).

One such intersection in my neck of the woods involves a 12-lane wide strip with islands and very fast speeds. It's tough for a pedestrian to cross the entire road on one cycle of the light. If a car pushes through a yellow, pedestrians . . . beware.

I bet the intersection in the OP is equally complex.

Caruso

Here in sunny California the judges are finding that More than half of the camra/red light tickets involve a driver on the phone. Ao much for multi-tasking. bk

I bet the intersection in the OP is equally complex.

not really. It's three lanes one-way in each direction, speed is controlled by signals timed to ~15 mph. the hazardous red light runners are late arrivals and folks who turned right on red one block upstream and are gunning it to make the light before it changes.

oh yeah, one last thing, this intersection is right in front of City Hall...

:D