I don't know maybe so, attitude? Body language? I see most riders who ride, for lack of better words, meek. Like they're afraid to be on the road, or like they're doing somethingwrong.

"but more about the sample set of drivers you've met on the roads."
Maybe so. I have cycled extensively in Cincinnati, Oh., Indy, In., Lexington, Ky., and Miami, Fl. All great places to ride as far as I'm concerned.

How about tired? In as much as appearance is supposed to be key... why is it that no one assumes that the cyclist is physically tired... they may have just climbed a hill and be winded. Or perhaps they are at the end of their commute...

But no, in the world of some advocates' eyes... we are to always be with sunny disposition, act as Alpha Dogs and have nearly the concentration of Fighter pilots... So much for "human." Eh? :rolleyes:

How about tired? In as much as appearance is supposed to be key... why is it that no one assumes that the cyclist is physically tired... they may have just climbed a hill and be winded. Or perhaps they are at the end of their commute...

But no, in the world of some advocates' eyes... we are to always be with sunny disposition, act as Alpha Dogs and have nearly the concentration of Fighter pilots... So much for "human." Eh? :rolleyes:
Tired and meek are reflected quite differently in terms of attitude and body language.

They do it whether you are in the center of the lane, the left edge of the lane, whether there is a blind curve and passing you risks killing everybody, even on single lane roads when clearly another car is coming. They are idiots. Idiotic in their belief that they must pass bicycles no matter what.

I experienced this idiotic behavior just this last Sunday. I am going down a pretty technical 12% grade and I am moving pretty good. This road is pretty much just corner after corner. It is rare that a car is even able to go faster than I am on this hill assuming they stay in their lane .

So anyway all of a sudden this smaller 4 wheel drive truck goes blasting by me taking up the entire oncoming lane of traffic and passing me with about a foot to spare. I caught his ass at the bottom of the hill and I was flying to do it. So I know he has to be doing the all over the road thing all the way down. Oblivious to the danger he is causing the many other people who use this road.

When I caught up to the truck I fully expedited to find a couple punks. Instead I find a guy probably 40 years old. I was pretty pissed and kind of lost it all over the guy. can't say I am proud of that. Anyway he could not comprehend at all that he had done anything wrong. As I was loosing it all over him he was saying in sort of a pleading voice "what did I do wrong" he did not apparently have a clue in the world even after I explained it to him.

I am glad that he would not get out of the truck looking back on it as I would have probably ended up being charged with assault for pounding his ass. Another cyclist came along and talked me down off the ledge and reminded me that it was not worth it. Although he did say that who knows, next time it may be me that finds him pounding on some drivers window.

I will say this for whoever is thinking it to save you the trouble. Yes I realize I would have probably done more good if I would have tried to reason with him rather that trying to get him out of the truck so I could beat on him ... I am going to work on that :rolleyes:

Tired and meek are reflected quite differently in terms of attitude and body language.

Perhaps, but the subtle differences are not likely to be noticed by motorists only giving casual glances toward a cyclist.

See, that is the thing... motorists don't study traffic or cyclists... they glance and go. So likely they don't see that you're spinning the cranks to indicate speed, likely they can't tell if a cyclist is tired or just meek. All the motorist tends to see is "colorful cyclist" or "slow cyclist," et. al.... and in most cases motorists usually don't look well enough to even judge speed.

You may be able to tell... but you are using the critical eye of an experienced cyclist and motorist.

The average motorist is not looking long nor hard enough... if they were... they would see us much better than they do.

And the body language and behavior of most cyclists I see can be accurately described as meek, and "like they're afraid to be on the road, or like they're doing something wrong." Motorists instinctively take advantage of that. Timidity has similar drawbacks in all kinds of social contexts.
[SNIP]

But the essential message you're trying to convey, is this: I am here, I know you're there, and I don't want you to pass me right now. I will allow you to pass as soon as it is appropriate. Thank you.
"Timid"? "Meek"? If I took your ditzy Über-Cyclist "stuff" seriously I would vomit.

You are full of more "stuffing" (as well as yourself) than a Xmas goose.

Add anywhere I've ever ridden all over zeytoun's city of San Diego to the list of places where cyclist behavior alone can all but eliminate motorists passing, or trying to pass, while coming to a stop. I think attitude and body language are a big part of it.Do you have any evidence that it's your behavior that has caused it, and not merely that you haven't run into the few motorists who do it?

It's rather silly (and impolite) to disparage another's riding style, when you have never seen that person ride.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary, you'll have to take my word for it that I exercise assertive body language.

I can tell that my body language, lane positioning, and signals work the vast majority of the time that I want to negotiate a lane change, prevent someone from passing when it's too narrow, etc. Of course, drivers are individuals, and occasionally they don't obey other humans.... duh

I also use a mirror.


ps - your sample size is too small to make the conclusions you make.

I have an excellent brake hood mounted mirror, along with a helmet mounted mirror. I'm sorry but I just don't run into trouble with everyday people. I have only had 2 incidents, once with a drunk, and once with a very anti-cyclists police officer.
My sample size may be small, but to me, it is big enough.

Maybe, but it sure seems like people other than me sure have a lot of problems at intersections. I have never had a serious concern at an intersection. Not once, in 15 years of on road cycling.
I have only had 2 incidents, once with a drunk, and once with a very anti-cyclists police officer.
My sample size may be small, but to me, it is big enough.
I see, you only have trouble between intersections....

When I come to intersections I will take the centre of the lane to keep folks from trying to pass or right hook me.

My brother and I do this as well, taking up the entire lane at the intersection itself. And yet drivers will often times still swerve to the left to get past us. This on small neighborhood streets, which means they are willing to stop in oncoming traffic to avoid waiting. And I use the term "stop" very, very loosely. Sometimes they do it to other cars, as well.