Road Bike Racing - Anyone else have high blood pressure?

Where did you hear it lowers HR? (Not challenging you -- just want to learn more :beer:)
My doctor. He told me the effect is not nearly as dramatic as that of other classes of drugs such as beta blockers, but that it is a side effect.

I haven't personally noticed any change in physical symptons (except the lowered pressure readings). I can't say that the medication or the condition have ever been a limiting factor in any races or other events I've done.

Over 70% of what people call genetics is simply inheriting the same eating habits their family had. High BP, diabetes, cholesterol, and many cancers can all be controlled, and reversed through diet.

Using drugs should always be your last resort. But there are some of us who have done all of the diet and exercise changes and seen no benefit to cholesterol or BP reduction. Many people look at the drugs as an easy way out, I have gone off meds twice hoping that changes in my lifestyle such as dropping 30 lbs would improve my stats. Both my BP and Cholesterol went back up. For those situations the drugs may be a life saver.

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Exactly. I really did not want to go on medication and would really have preferred to have things controlled with diet, weight loss, and exercise. Prior to going on meds (it was 3 years since my initial diagnosis to the time I went on meds), I lost about 30 pounds and made significant changes to my diet and exercise regimen which I maintain today. My diet is not anything like my parents', and I'm a lot more active than they were at the same age.

Unfortunately none of this had any effect on my BP; in fact, it kept going higher. When I asked if there was anything I could do to avoid taking medications, my doctor put it in pretty simple terms: it's a hell of a lot easier and cheaper for me, my family, my insurance plan, etc. to take a pill once a day than it is to deal with the aftereffects of a stroke.

I suppose it's possible that 20 or 30 years worth of changed diet might eventually have an effect on my BP, but weighing the (minute) possibility of that versus the drastically increased likelihood of a stroke is a no-brainer (ha ha).

Lisinopril works in part by lowering heart rate, and that could affect one's potential, especially at the top end.[/QUOTE]

Not true. Lisinopril should have no direct effect on HR. Should be a pretty reasonable choice for an athlete.

have moderately high cholesterol (238) but very good HDL & BP...have a family history of heart disease and would consider low dose statin but am concerned about side effects. anyone else have experience with these?

MUCH more important than your total cholesterol are the numbers for your HDL (you tell us that's good) and your LDL....a touch less important is the TG level. If thinking about statins, you are really looking at lowering the LDL....for someone without heart disease you are looking to get under 130, with under 100 offered as an option.

Since exercise increases HDL, it is quite possible to have a "high" total cholesterol, but not need any med, if the LDL and TG are acceptable.

You might want to get a second opinion from someone that treats hardcore athletes. I read somewhere that the systolic reading for athletes is high because their heart muscle is highly developed and stregnthened, and that what is important is the diastolic number, which in your case is great.

Dude, I would kill for those numbers. You're almost in suspended animation at rest, 61 diastolic and 39 HR!

Over 70% of what people call genetics is simply inheriting the same eating habits their family had. High BP, diabetes, cholesterol, and many cancers can all be controlled, and reversed through diet.

Could you attribute that percentage to a survey? Or is that your opinion?

Diet is certainly one of the things that that's important, but it isn't the whole thing. Exercise, exposure to agents (sun, tobacco, drugs etc.), and genetic factors are of similar importance.

the systolic reading for athletes is high because their heart muscle is highly developed and stregnthened, and that what is important is the diastolic number

Whoah. Whatever paper you read that on should be burned ASAP.

First, the two blood pressure numbers measure the pressure on your arteries when your heart has 1) expanded to fill with blood and 2) contracted to squeeze it out.

If either one of those numbers is high you are damaging your arteries. It doesn't matter what the reason for it is, all that matters is that the pressure is high.

With all of the knowledge that medecine has about hypertension, there is NO reason to be complacent about treating it.

Over 70% of what people call genetics is simply inheriting the same eating habits their family had. High BP, diabetes, cholesterol, and many cancers can all be controlled, and reversed through diet.

Not sure of the "70%" but I agree with this in general. A couple years ago, I would have called it BS.

I ran a very controlled experiment from January to March after getting a high cholesterol test again. For years, it's been high, and my diet wasn't considered bad by any measure. Mostly the Mediterranean diet. But cholesterol remained high. Then, in January, I went nearly completely vegan (something I wouldn't have considered in my wildest dream before). I wanted to test whether I could cause any change at all without medication. And after three months of radical diet change, I brought it way down. From about 240 to 160.

Diet works, it's just that it has to be very hardcore and radical for it to make a difference.

Most people think they've changed their diet, but it's not enough. And they jump on the medication.

Now, if only I could find some dietary change to get the high BP in check. Ideas?

Now, if only I could find some dietary change to get the high BP in check. Ideas?

<= 2000mg/day of sodium will lower or prolong the onset high BP from some causes, but will do nothing in other cases.

Over 70% of what people call genetics is simply inheriting the same eating habits their family had. High BP, diabetes, cholesterol, and many cancers can all be controlled, and reversed through diet.The thing is, only 50% of people are sodium-sensitive where watching your salt-intake would make a difference in BP anyway. For me, my BP was creeping up in the 10-years after I stopped racing and the doc was considering putting me on meds. I had gained about 100lbs. Then I decided to get back into shape. Going from 245 lbs to 180lbs reduced BP to the point where meds wasn't needed. My diet however, increased 2-3x and would give most dietitians a heart-attack! ;)

The 70/30 ratio comes from medical studies (which I don’t have in front of me).

Most people who say they’ve tried everything - diet wise, before the go on drugs, have usually not, as everything is extremely subjective.

Cholesterol comes from animal products. A plant-based diet contains zero cholesterol. A vegan diet is the healthiest, and fastest way to lower it.

BP and cholesterol medications simply allow you to continue the same dietary habits that go you into this mess in the first place.

BP and cholesterol medications simply allow you to continue the same dietary habits that go you into this mess in the first place.

You simply can't generalize in this manner. There are BP and cholesterol dysfunctions that are not diet related, and are common. While there may be a diet influence, we will not all end up with the same BP and cholesterol even if we all have identical diets and exercise.

I agree that most of us can do more, a lot more, with diet than we are, but there are limits to its impact.

You simply can't generalize in this manner. There are BP and cholesterol dysfunctions that are not diet related, and are common.

Sorry, I was referring to the majority of people who’s elevated levels are diet related.

MUCH more important than your total cholesterol are the numbers for your HDL (you tell us that's good) and your LDL....a touch less important is the TG level. If thinking about statins, you are really looking at lowering the LDL....for someone without heart disease you are looking to get under 130, with under 100 offered as an option.

Since exercise increases HDL, it is quite possible to have a "high" total cholesterol, but not need any med, if the LDL and TG are acceptable.


don't remember excact #'s but have beon told that LDL/HDL should be 5/1 or lower...mine was something like 2/1. Honestly I wouldn't worry much about it...still racing & riding 5000 miles/yr or so @ age 41...but my fathers side has a terrible history. OTOH my no one on my mothers side ever had heart disease or lived less than 90 years. So who knows. But it sounds like statins aren't really compatible with recovery-intensive sports.

The 70/30 ratio comes from medical studies (which I don’t have in front of me).

Most people who say they’ve tried everything - diet wise, before the go on drugs, have usually not, as everything is extremely subjective.

Cholesterol comes from animal products. A plant-based diet contains zero cholesterol. A vegan diet is the healthiest, and fastest way to lower it.

BP and cholesterol medications simply allow you to continue the same dietary habits that go you into this mess in the first place.

Well, I could argue that human's are omnivores and if you have to go vegan to drop your cholesterol then you probably do have a genetic issue. But I will take the more practical argument, I like meat, I will continue to eat meat and if taking a pill a day allows me to continue to eat meat then I am grateful to science:)

Well, I could argue that human's are omnivores and if you have to go vegan to drop your cholesterol then you probably do have a genetic issue. But I will take the more practical argument, I like meat, I will continue to eat meat and if taking a pill a day allows me to continue to eat meat then I am grateful to science:)
No need to argue, it’s your health... but true carnivores also don’t develop atherosclerosis (clogged arteries), no matter how much meat they eat, and certnaily don’t need medication to control their cholesterol or BP levels. Have you ever know a dog or cat to have high cholesterol or hypertension?

PS: Using medication to artificially reduce blood pressure does nothing to improve the health of your blood vessels - the arteries remain fragile and can still burst into a stroke or heart attack.

Have you ever know a dog or cat to have high cholesterol or hypertension?

PS: Using medication to artificially reduce blood pressure does nothing to improve the health of your blood vessels - the arteries remain fragile and can still burst into a stroke or heart attack.

Umm, human beings are not the same as cats or dogs. Niether are fish, in case you were wondering.

There are literally decades of research in the treatment of hypertension and its impact on heart disease and strokes. Arteries harden over the course of your life based on usage and most people over 75 have significant blockages and hardening, regardless of your diet. Does your statement suggest that we shouldn't try to treat our hypertension based on what we know?

And, there's evidence of our meat eating lineage in our mouths... see the pointed teeth? They're not for eating avocado.

water, a question.

I figure blood pressure is related to various factors. The guy who taught me about cars said your engine should have oil pressure. But just because you have oil pressure it doesn't mean your engine is good - filling the oil pump with peanut butter will drastically raise your oil pressure but it won't do much for lubricating the engine.

So high BP could be caused by a number of things (I'm guessing here):
1. thick blood ("peanut butter")
2. smaller openings in arteries/vessels (squeeze blood through a needle)
3. big heart/pump (high pressure pump)
4. not sure if cholesterol would contribute (i.e. thin artery passages due to wall buildup)

Are any of your other numbers out of range? hematocrit, heart wall thickness, cholesterol?

I'm curious because my BP is a bit higher than it used to be (+ ~20 for each number, now 120/80) and I'm affected by all three of the factors I list above plus a heart that beats backwards at some part of its rhythm until I hit about 112-113 bpm. I don't want to be alarmist to myself but I'd rather know than not.

cdr

Umm, human beings are not the same as cats or dogs. Niether are fish, in case you were wondering.
There are literally decades of research in the treatment of hypertension and its impact on heart disease and strokes. Arteries harden over the course of your life based on usage and most people over 75 have significant blockages and hardening, regardless of your diet. Does your statement suggest that we shouldn't try to treat our hypertension based on what we know?


Arterial hardening regardless of diet does not consider sedentary lifestyles. As you guys have pointed out, there are many causes of high blood pressure and heart failure, the least controllable of which is genetics.

Statin drugs do lessen incidence of heart attacks in the general population and are true wonder drugs, however, this has also been accompanied by liver toxicity which is on a steep increase. Pharmaceutical companies love to sell the idea that a pill will fix everything, but those with HBP need to make lifestyle changes, not just take pills.

It's been on the Surgeon's General's radar that the amount of salt in the NA diet is way too high and may impact population health as much as smoking.

And, there's evidence of our meat eating lineage in our mouths... see the pointed teeth? They're not for eating avocado.

Yes, but they are not for eating nearly as much meat as the typical person does. We in fact did evolve on a mostly vegetarian diet.

Yes, but they are not for eating nearly as much meat as the typical person does. We in fact did evolve on a mostly vegetarian diet.

Yup, it's easier to pick wheat than catch meat. And, we eat more of _everything_ than nature intended.

So high BP could be caused by a number of things (I'm guessing here):
1. thick blood ("peanut butter")
2. smaller openings in arteries/vessels (squeeze blood through a needle)
3. big heart/pump (high pressure pump)
4. not sure if cholesterol would contribute (i.e. thin artery passages due to wall buildup)


cdr

I'm no Doc, but I believe another factor that contributes specifically to a high pulse pressure (the difference between the 2 numbers - like waterrockets) is an inelasiticity of the arterial walls. I don't know what it is that causes this inelasticity, but it is one of the things that is treated by some bp drugs.

I'm no Doc, but I believe another factor that contributes specifically to a high pulse pressure (the difference between the 2 numbers - like waterrockets) is an inelasiticity of the arterial walls. I don't know what it is that causes this inelasticity, but it is one of the things that is treated by some bp drugs.

When my doc was explaining some of the processes, he was saying that the muscles surrounding the arteries and vessels are just tighter for some people than they are for others. These muscles control blood flow throughout the body (like they open in your face when you blush). Other people get lower elasticity through hardening of the arteries (and I guess too much sodium speeds this process).

One interesting bit was seeing the MRI (they gave me a CD). I noticed that my left and right femoral arteries take a very different path through my hips, and I wonder if that's related to my left leg falling asleep during time-trials (in the drops or in the TT position). Maybe the artery isn't the problem, but the nerve might follow the same path?

Anyway, the MRI was cool to see, and it's cool to have on my PC to view at any time.

One interesting bit was seeing the MRI (they gave me a CD). I noticed that my left and right femoral arteries take a very different path through my hips, and I wonder if that's related to my left leg falling asleep during time-trials (in the drops or in the TT position). Maybe the artery isn't the problem, but the nerve might follow the same path?

Anyway, the MRI was cool to see, and it's cool to have on my PC to view at any time.

Did you have the MRI because of your blood pressure or because of your leg falling asleep?

Did you have the MRI because of your blood pressure or because of your leg falling asleep?

BP. Eliminating renal artery stenosis as a cause of high BP. The kidneys will see a lower blood flow as too low of blood pressure, so they raise the body's bp to correct the input flow. That's not my condition though.

BP. Eliminating renal artery stenosis as a cause of high BP. The kidneys will see a lower blood flow as too low of blood pressure, so they raise the body's bp to correct the input flow. That's not my condition though.

Interesting. My Dr. never discussed this as a possibility with me regarding my high BP. Went through a few test but nothing involving an MRI. I'll have to ask him about it on my next visit.

Interesting. My Dr. never discussed this as a possibility with me regarding my high BP. Went through a few test but nothing involving an MRI. I'll have to ask him about it on my next visit.

Your insurance probably doesn't cover it, that is why the MRI was never given as an option.

Your insurance probably doesn't cover it, that is why the MRI was never given as an option.

High prob. that you are correct. I'll ask anyway to see what he says.

how old are you guys with the high blood pressure? i haven't had a physical in +/-25 years. you almost make me nervous.

I'm 30 and know that I need to watch mine as I get older.

36

36

ditto

I'm 30 and know that I need to watch mine as I get older.

Diagnosed at 30.

1. "Interesting. My Dr. never discussed this as a possibility with me regarding my high BP. Went through a few test but nothing involving an MRI. I'll have to ask him about it on my next visit."

Getting an MRI at the first episode of hypertension isn't usually warranted. Yes, renal artery stenosis can cause high BP, but compared to "garden variety" high BP this is pretty rare, so you'd end up doing LOTS of MRIs without finding anything to fix. Hypertension due to a serious renal artery issue is most commonly hard to control with medications, and this is the tip that an MRI may be warranted.

2. "PS: Using medication to artificially reduce blood pressure does nothing to improve the health of your blood vessels - the arteries remain fragile and can still burst into a stroke or heart attack."

This is COMPLETELY WRONG...DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THIS...there is gobs and gobs of data to show that controlling BP and cholesterol reduce the likelihood of heart attack and stroke. If you have high BP or high cholesterol, please address those with your Doc.

3. "But it sounds like statins aren't really compatible with recovery-intensive sports."

Not at all. Statins are pretty safe. Some people get some muscle irritation from them, but this is pretty rare...about 2% of people get some achiness, and less than 1 in 10,000 get any serious muscle inflamation that is reversible when you stop the med. Exercise should not dissuade you from using this type of med if you need it....but if your LDL is already low, and HDL high, then you don't need it.

1. "Interesting. My Dr. never discussed this as a possibility with me regarding my high BP. Went through a few test but nothing involving an MRI. I'll have to ask him about it on my next visit."

Getting an MRI at the first episode of hypertension isn't usually warranted. Yes, renal artery stenosis can cause high BP, but compared to "garden variety" high BP this is pretty rare, so you'd end up doing LOTS of MRIs without finding anything to fix. Hypertension due to a serious renal artery issue is most commonly hard to control with medications, and this is the tip that an MRI may be warranted.

Yeah, for someone in my situation an MRI was important. My Dr. wanted to put me on an ACE inhibitor, but they are really dangerous for people with renal artery stenosis. So, check for stenosis as the cause, then ACE inhibitor is either not needed, or is the first treatment option.

A vegan diet can be useful for lowering cholesterol, not because it eliminates cholesterol, but because it generally eliminates saturated fats. It was thought that dietary cholesterol caused high cholesterol because you would see build up of cholesterol in arteries. The cholesterol was actually being used to repair damage from saturated (and trans) fats. This is why eggs keep falling in and out of favor (now they are in! cholesterol but very low sat fats).

I am in a lifetime of worry. My family is filled with lots of problems and I can only hope that they are environmental and not genetic. Unfortunately, I grew up eating lots of fast food and other junk. I suppose I am kind of bummed out that the health nuts are suffering from some issues. :( I think last time I was 106/64 and my cholesterol was <100 (HDL 48 so I was okay).

I am in a lifetime of worry. My family is filled with lots of problems and I can only hope that they are environmental and not genetic.

My hypertension diagnosis came about 6 months before I lost 7 friends in one day (every one of them was under 40). The shell shock made me realize that my death won't really be that important. Sure it will matter to my family and friends. But the world at large will only remember what I did, not how I left.

It definately changed my riding. I descend better now. I used to slow down a lot. It fit in with my illusion of control. A few weeks ago I hit 50 for the first time in a long time... and it felt GREAT!

geez, this is scary stuff. i've always thought i'm the only guy in america that needs MORE salt. i've never had any problems with blood pressure. my FAA check last month came up with 120/78, and that's a bit higher than normal. i never used to salt my food. at all. i would cramp on long time trials and couldn't stop it, though . so i finally started salting everything i eat, and putting it in the sports drink i carry on my rides, and the cramping stopped. i have absolutely no idea how much sodium i consume on a daily basis. i think i'll start tracking that

my (extremely limited) knowledge of cholesterol is that the important part is the difference between HDL and LDL. mine is about 1 to 1. not very good, but my total is off the bottom of the charts. something like 60/50.

Salt doesn't affect everyone, just those with sodium-sensitive hypertension.

The big debate by doctors is when to start prescribing statins. Arterial plaques start early in life and accumulate, but they use a hard cutoff number to give the drug. Research suggest that monitoring earlier with dietary changes is more important. Never too early to check this, especially if you have a family history of heart trouble. Early intervention really works.

A vegan diet can be useful for lowering cholesterol, not because it eliminates cholesterol, but because it generally eliminates saturated fats. It was thought that dietary cholesterol caused high cholesterol because you would see build up of cholesterol in arteries. The cholesterol was actually being used to repair damage from saturated (and trans) fats. This is why eggs keep falling in and out of favor (now they are in! cholesterol but very low sat fats). That's true, cholesterol intake has zero impact on serum cholesterol levels. Remember that cholesterol are just markers sitting on the ends of saturated and unsaturated for the ride. It's really eating the saturated fats you have to worry about; that has a significant impact on serum cholesterol levels.

BTW, does anyone know what compound makes up every cell-membrane in your body? Or what is used as the basic building-block for the majority of hormones?

Yes, the body needs cholesterol, but no where near the levels seen in western diets.
Yes, humans did evolve eating some meat, but not at mass quantities.

People with vegetarian (not vegan) diets have well documented health benefits beyond just heart health.

Colon cancer is a big one.

True, we're probably eating 10x as much meat today as our ancestors. Not to mention that for them to get some burgers, they'd have to work for hours chasing it down and clubbing it to death! :) Nowadays, we just pick up the phone or go through the drive-in... :(

...BTW, does anyone know what compound makes up every cell-membrane in your body? Or what is used as the basic building-block for the majority of hormones?

cholesterol

MarkSch, thanks for the reply. I've got a visit with the Dr. in December I'll confirm with him that I have the "garden varity" HBP. :)

ri_us, talk about getting hit with a sledgehammer. I can't image losing 7 friends in one day.

DocRay, I agree that salt does not affect everyone the same way. It was never an issue with me. Always went out of my way to avoid it before finding out about my HBP.

Yeah, for someone in my situation an MRI was important. My Dr. wanted to put me on an ACE inhibitor, but they are really dangerous for people with renal artery stenosis. So, check for stenosis as the cause, then ACE inhibitor is either not needed, or is the first treatment option.

Not sure what your situation was / is, so I'm not at all speaking about you, but want to clear something up for others who might be concerned....

In general, you don't need an MRI before starting an ACE inhibitor or ARB. The key concern about starting these meds in someone with renal artery stenosis is that they can lead to a REVERSIBLE deterioration in kidney function. This is easily picked up by a blood test that SHOULD be done in everyone about 1-2 weeks after starting these meds. If there IS a deterioration in kidney function, THEN one might pursue MRI.

There are other circumstances in which one might look to MRI sooner....age at onset, race, presence or absence of family history, rapidity of change in BP, severity of BP, how easy it is to control...

Ah, interesting.

Guess I need not worry about my 5k+ mg of sodium per day on my 4500+ kcal/day diet. Physical today and my blood pressures were 113/68 (rhr 41) and 106/67 (rhr 40). One machine wouldn't give me a readout because of the low RHR they said. *shrug*

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20071119/hl_hsn/highbloodpressurelinkedtodisabilitydementia

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20071119/hl_hsn/highbloodpressurelinkedtodisabilitydementia

At least a number of them lived into their 80s and 90s according to the article.

Hey guys I just have a quick question. For the past couple of months I have been in and out of the hospital. I have had my blood pressure taken from me at least 60+ times. I know most of the numbers but my question is I am sure some of them are not an accurate description of my blood pressure. For example they took it one time before they had to do pre op blood tests so it was sky high because i was freaking out. They also took it while I was knocked out under anastesia and other drugs which I would assume would give very low numbers. They also took it at any other moment so...

What are the conditions that you should be in for an accurate reading?