Living Car Free - planet in peril...really?

i don't understand if we need to save the planet by less auto use and it is common knowledge why do 98% of people in this country still drive cars? is it that they don't care if the planet dies?

People don't take things like that seriously, until it starts affecting their lives.

There's probably also a peer pressure kind of thing going on... since most people are ignoring the problem, it seems unnecessary to take it seriously.

If we are to accept that your original statement is in fact true.
It is a long way away planning wise for most people. I mean retirement is so far off I may not make it that far, pretty high chance I won't, so why the heck am I putting money away for it? Yeah I know my wife :D
What I mostly hear is:
It is beter for the environment for me to run this crap vehicle into the ground and then buy something better, of course they just buy another F350 for commuting themselves to work anyhow but it sounds good at the time and sort of makes sense.
Why should I cut back if no one else is?
People would think I'm weird I'd be kicked out of all my cliques?
They'll fix it sooner or later so why suffer in the mean time?
and what should be mine.
Why the heck should I care since I don't have kids? If the world is going to hell I'd like to see it. It might be a good show ;)

I expect a great majority of people really think they can truely do nothing about it, for those that believe anything is happening at all. They are right if they keep going along with their lives as they live them they really can't. They might even be right if what we are doing is such a small part of something bigger like the earth trying to cleanse itself of the Human Infection.

Why should Americans conserve while China and India use all the earths resources over the next 50 years?

(not my personal opinion, just what I hear 'round the office)

This is a car culture. EVERYTHING revolves around the automobile. People just can't see that there are other ways to get around. Bikes are toys or for recreation. Buses are for the poor. Trains are nonexistent. People live separated from facilities like grocery stores and jobs. Kids get driven the .7 miles to school in the SUV. (At least in my neighborhood they do.) Every house comes with a 3 car garage. You can buy a car with no money down and 0% interest. We're still spending money like crazy building new roads so people can get somewhere easier and faster.

i don't understand if we need to save the planet by less auto use and it is common knowledge why do 98% of people in this country still drive cars? is it that they don't care if the planet dies?

I am pretty much positive the planet is not going to die. It may kill off all of us, but it will recover as it has in the past. It'll suck for us, but hey we kinda deserve it.

-D

Even a lot of the people that claim to be environmentalists do not want to give up their cars. I've been on another message board where this was the case. One lone poster suggested shelving the car in favor of riding bikes, walking, and taking public transportation, and was immediately shot down and branded a Republican who hates the poor :rolleyes:

People love their cars too much.

I am pretty much positive the planet is not going to die. It may kill off all of us, but it will recover as it has in the past. It'll suck for us, but hey we kinda deserve it.

-D

I'm guessing this is where we're heading, too.

The simple fact is, the automobile is not even close to being the biggest threat to this planet or to mankind. Before anybody flames me, it's worth remembering that I've probably been car free for longer than anybody else on this board, it's just a fact. The rate at which people are breeding is what's really chewing through the world's resources. Even if these people don't drive, a lot of them still burn electricity and consume goods which are transported by trucks and made in a polluting industry. I always laugh when I hear people in the current election campaign here in Australia talk about reducing carbon emissions by 50% -- what is the point if there are twice as many people polluting by the time it happens?

If anybody was serious about doing anything about climate change, there would be a tax on people who have children, and it would need to be administered globally. Of course, it would never be an election winner, so it's virtually impossible as long as people consider democracy as some kind of virtue, but unless global birth rates are slowed dramatically, everything else is just a waste of time.

Well, I am car-lite, not exactly car free, but as to the topic, cars are less of a threat to global warming and the environment than the bovine:

"Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems," Henning Steinfeld, senior author of the report, said when the FAO findings were released in November.

Livestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse-gas emissions as measured in carbon dioxide equivalent, reports the FAO. This includes 9 percent of all CO2 emissions, 37 percent of methane, and 65 percent of nitrous oxide. Altogether, that's more than the emissions caused by transportation.

The latter two gases are particularly troubling – even though they represent far smaller concentrations in atmosphere than CO2, which remains the main global warming culprit. But methane has 23 times the global warming potential (GWP) of CO2 and nitrous oxide has 296 times the warming potential of carbon dioxide.

And I appreciate a good T-bone now and then.

The planet's not in peril.

Though, the dinosaurs had this same internet conversation 68,000,000 years ago.

I agree with chris, there are way too many people on this planet, we should get down to 1 or 2 billion.

Even a lot of the people that claim to be environmentalists do not want to give up their cars. I've been on another message board where this was the case. One lone poster suggested shelving the car in favor of riding bikes, walking, and taking public transportation, and was immediately shot down and branded a Republican who hates the poor :rolleyes:

Wait a minute -- that sounds backwards...

;)

Call me car-lite -- I can't give up my car. My parents live 1200 miles away, I drove to a Halloween party twenty miles away (if you think I'm going to ride back that far in that part of town on a Saturday night, y'all are crazy), I've made regular multi-hundred-mile trips across the rest of the east coast, etc. Zipcar/Flexcar won't work for me, and I'd only bother with rentals if I had other people with me to help defray the cost. Besides, it's paid for, and it's only five years old; I plan to keep it for at least another eight years or so.

But, I only drive maybe once a week, and pretty much only use it when I need to carry a bunch of stuff (including my tuba, which is prohibitively difficult to take on a 40-mile trip via bike). It also gives me flexibility and reach that a bike or public transportation can't match.

If I had a family, I could easily see having just one car. I'd even consider selling my car if my wife's was better (that is, if I get married at all). For now, though, it rests in the garage until I need it.

/end excuse-laden sob story ;)

I didn't mean for my post to be an anti-car rant, so much as a rant against hypocrites :o

These were people who saw cars as absolute necessities, rather than as tools, for going around in the downtown part of an urban area. You know, where the grid-like, one-way, narrowed asphalt street layout isn't quite as convenient for driving as it would be for walking.

"i don't understand if we need to save the planet by less auto use and it is common knowledge why do 98% of people in this country still drive cars? is it that they don't care if the planet dies?"



The level of ones spiritual awareness is what dictates decisions. Knowledge alone won't get people to act.

Dr. David R. Hawkins created a scale of spiritual awareness in his book "Power vs. Force". The higher the number, the more advanced the person. The scale is logarithmic, meaning 101 is more than one bigger than 100. The scale goes from 0-1000. One person at the level of 600 would balance out 1,000,000 other people at the level of 100 in an average.

When a person reaches the level of 200 they reach the level of integrity and begin to see the consequences of their actions in relation to others. People below 200 only think about themselves.

The world average only reached the level of 200 in 1986. It has since climbed to 207. Most people in the world are below 200. That means most people still only care about their own lives and needs. Even though many of us are concerned about the world and are taking steps to help, most people will not do so.

Though the USA has the highest overall average level on the Scale of Consciousness, nearly half the population is still below the level of 200. The USA has many people that are high on the scale balancing out the multitudes below the level of 200.

The good news is that the overall level of consciousness of humanity is rising very quickly. The question is whether we will be able to overcome the problems of humanity in time to save the planet or not.

If anybody was serious about doing anything about climate change, there would be a tax on people who have children, and it would need to be administered globally. Of course, it would never be an election winner, so it's virtually impossible as long as people consider democracy as some kind of virtue, but unless global birth rates are slowed dramatically, everything else is just a waste of time.

On the CNN special they estimated population will grow from the current 6.5 billion to 9.1 billion by 2050.

As Jim Morrison said, "The future is uncertain but the end is always near."

I didn't mean for my post to be an anti-car rant, so much as a rant against hypocrites :o

No problem; I didn't plan for my post to sound so pro-car, either. ;)

What I thought was funny was how the forum you mentioned derided the cyclist for being a poor-people-hating Republican. I've always thought that cyclists were stereotypically socially-progressive liberal types, which is far away from being Republican. ;)

Two things I see that I think may be making people slow to change:

1. There is no consensus in the scientific community that the global warming is man made and that we can change it. The earth has warmed but it has done so in the past. If not, we would never have learned about the Ice Age in school. What made it change then and can we stop the change now?

2. The "Leaders" of the climate change evangelist have done nothing to change their lifestyle to lessen the impact they are telling other people about. It is one thing to tell everyone to change and then go home to your mansion on a private jet and another to make some serious changes in your life to match what you claim to believe. I think people listen but are not moved to change because they feel the person giving the message is insincere.

That is what I see from my vantage point. I do feel there is a need to make changes and promote greener lifestyles if only to make the air cleaner to breath, or make it so you can't see it again like it used to be. I live in Arizona where the sun is always shinning but there is no push to get people to install solar power on their homes. Most people don't know that you can get rebates from the Govt. and power companies to help with the cost.
There is a lot that can be done that is not, including reducing car usage.

My 2 cents.

I saw a saw a cool bumper sticker on the back of a utility trike. It said "Environmental stickers don't mean s##t if there on the back of a car!"

How true it is.

One, population increase is pretty much passe - it's increasing, because of longer lifespans, but it's already wound to snap back down pretty hard. Industrialized nations have birth rates below maintenance. The population increase is all in places like South America, SE Asia, and Africa, where they were having lots of children in hopes that a couple of them might actually live long enough to take care of things, and suddenly.. they stopped dying. There's already a solution for that; the faster they get economies up and running the faster their birth rate plummets. if you want to save the world from overpopulation, invest in every "sweatshop" company that employs overseas third world labour you can.
Two, climate change is as close to a consensus as the scientific community gets. There's more consensus on climate change being real than there is on the theory of gravity being correct.
Three, people CANNOT IMAGINE not using cars. I ride a bicycle and people think i'm a loonie for doing it and talk about how it's a huge commitment, and how my Clydesdale self is in such amazing shape, and stuff like that. They cannot even visualize it. They sit around hoping for someone to make their car safe for the environment because imagining not having it feels like imagining not drinking water or eating food to them. We need to keep showing them the way until it actually clicks into their mind as something they too are able to do.

i don't understand if we need to save the planet by less auto use and it is common knowledge why do 98% of people in this country still drive cars? is it that they don't care if the planet dies?

Why do I smoke even though I know it is hurting me and could very likely be the death of me?
Why do I drink so much alcahol even though I know it is destroying my body?
Why do I eat more food in one day than some people eat all week?

Because I'm stubborn, and idiot, and apathetic. And I probably represent a majority of that 98%

can't we just make global-warming it's own damn board?

Why do I smoke even though I know it is hurting me and could very likely be the death of me?
Why do I drink so much alcahol even though I know it is destroying my body?
Why do I eat more food in one day than some people eat all week?

Because I'm stubborn, and idiot, and apathetic. And I probably represent a majority of that 98%

Dude..you've just become my hero! :)

can't we just make global-warming it's own damn board?No. We have to mix everything into a horrible convoluted mess so that as few as possible will understand even a small fraction of what's going on. Good bidness and alla that.

I agree with chris, there are way too many people on this planet, we should get down to 1 or 2 billion.

(starting with you two? lol)

planet in peril...really?

Not from us drivng cars.

The rate at which people are breeding is what's really chewing through the world's resources. Even if these people don't drive, a lot of them still burn electricity and consume goods which are transported by trucks and made in a polluting industry. I always laugh when I hear people in the current election campaign here in Australia talk about reducing carbon emissions by 50% -- what is the point if there are twice as many people polluting by the time it happens?... unless global birth rates are slowed dramatically, everything else is just a waste of time.[/color]
In Australia, one of your PM's made the public statement "One for him, one for her, and one for the country" in trying to promote citizens to have more children. (Unsuccessfully, I might add..) The reason? Australia is well below replacement rate. If you cut off immigration, the country would become more and more uninhabited from this point on, at a noticeable rate. There's a reason your demographics are shifting.

There's probably also a peer pressure kind of thing going on... since most people are ignoring the problem, it seems unnecessary to take it seriously.

Agreed. Where I work, I'm seen as odd because I sometimes bike commute, I take home plastic and glass bottles and containers for recycling instead of throwing them in the trash as everyone else does, and because I travel by train instead of by air. I've had people argue with me on the last item. "Even if YOU don't fly, the airplanes are still going to take off."

I am pretty much positive the planet is not going to die. It may kill off all of us, but it will recover as it has in the past. It'll suck for us, but hey we kinda deserve it.

-D

As George Carlin once put it - "The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas."

i don't understand if we need to save the planet by less auto use and it is common knowledge why do 98% of people in this country still drive cars? is it that they don't care if the planet dies?

By "this country" I'm guessing you mean the US. A big part of the problem is how this country was growing as cars came into being. We've grown as a car culture and in many areas it's essentially impossible to get around without one. This can be changed but it will take a long time, a lot of money, and a lot of effort. People hate change and none of our leaders are going to go in this direction as long as the masses don't want it. All people seem to care about is what we can run cars with when the gas runs out. They can't seem to even fathom that maybe we don't need cars at all.

I saw a saw a cool bumper sticker on the back of a utility trike. It said "Environmental stickers don't mean s##t if there on the back of a car!"

How true it is.

I was at a green festival recently, and someone was handing out stickers that said something like "I am a carbon conscious consumer" or something along those lines. Someone suggested I put it on the car, but I put it on my bike instead (wrapped it around the top-tube). Not that anyone can see it there - especially now that the batteries for my headlight are fastened in the same place.

That is one major design flaw in the bicycle - no place to put bumper stickers so that others can see them :D.

This planet has been through a lot worse things than an infestation of bipeds. We are just a temporary skin rash.

That said, we are sure not doing ourselves any favors, soiling our own nest. Human beings are clever, but they are not very smart.

The number one problem is that there are too many of us. None of the other problems will be solved until that one is.

The simple fact is, the automobile is not even close to being the biggest threat to this planet or to mankind. The rate at which people are breeding is what's really chewing through the world's resources.

You're preaching to the choir here. No kids and at my age not likely to have any in the future. Been car-free or car-lite since 1962. The family is an ancient institution. Good luck at making a dent on that one. For me, the long term answer is to populate space.

This planet has been through a lot worse things than an infestation of bipeds. We are just a temporary skin rash.

Yes, Everything dances at the pleasure of the Sun. It decides when its time for the Earth to go. The unique thing about humans is that they are the first interplanetary species. We are a vector for life to spread beyond Earth. :eek:

Well, I am car-lite, not exactly car free, but as to the topic, cars are less of a threat to global warming and the environment than the bovine:

"Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems," Henning Steinfeld, senior author of the report, said when the FAO findings were released in November.

Livestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse-gas emissions as measured in carbon dioxide equivalent, reports the FAO. This includes 9 percent of all CO2 emissions, 37 percent of methane, and 65 percent of nitrous oxide. Altogether, that's more than the emissions caused by transportation.

The latter two gases are particularly troubling – even though they represent far smaller concentrations in atmosphere than CO2, which remains the main global warming culprit. But methane has 23 times the global warming potential (GWP) of CO2 and nitrous oxide has 296 times the warming potential of carbon dioxide.

And I appreciate a good T-bone now and then.

Yep, animal agriculture is sucking the planet dry. From the Food & Ag Organization of the UN study:

Climate change: With rising temperatures, rising sea levels, melting icecaps and glaciers, shifting ocean currents and weather patterns, climate change is the most serious challenge facing the human race. The livestock sector is a major player, responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions measured in CO2 equivalent. This is a higher share than transport….Livestock are also responsible for almost two-thirds (64 percent) of anthropogenic ammonia emissions, which contribute significantly to acid rain and acidification of ecosystems.

Water: The livestock sector is a key player in increasing water use, accounting for over 8 percent of global human water use, mostly for the irrigation of feedcrops. It is probably the largest sectoral source of water pollution, contributing to eutrophication, “dead” zones in coastal areas, degradation of coral reefs, human health problems, emergence of antibiotic resistance and many others. The major sources of pollution are from animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and pesticides used for feedcrops, and sediments from eroded pastures.

Land degredation: Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the remainder.

Biodiversity: Indeed, the livestock sector may well be the leading player in the reduction of biodiversity, since it is the major driver of deforestation, as well as one of the leading drivers of land degradation, pollution, climate change, overfishing, sedimentation of coastal areas and facilitation of invasions by alien species.

More here (http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/environment.html).

Two things I see that I think may be making people slow to change:

1. There is no consensus in the scientific community that the global warming is man made and that we can change it. The earth has warmed but it has done so in the past. If not, we would never have learned about the Ice Age in school. What made it change then and can we stop the change now?

2. The "Leaders" of the climate change evangelist have done nothing to change their lifestyle to lessen the impact they are telling other people about. It is one thing to tell everyone to change and then go home to your mansion on a private jet and another to make some serious changes in your life to match what you claim to believe. I think people listen but are not moved to change because they feel the person giving the message is insincere.

That's a good list, but I'd add one more: the 50+ year history of environmental wolf-crying. An awful lot of folks have spent their entire lives hearing that the world is about to end, and having taken note of the fact that it never actually happens, have decided that maybe there are better things to pay attention to.

<edit> There's also the deal that the Democrats have seized onto the environmental issue as a political expedient, automatically alienating 50% of the U.S. population.

This is a car culture. EVERYTHING revolves around the automobile. People just can't see that there are other ways to get around. Bikes are toys or for recreation. Buses are for the poor. Trains are nonexistent. People live separated from facilities like grocery stores and jobs. Kids get driven the .7 miles to school in the SUV. (At least in my neighborhood they do.) Every house comes with a 3 car garage. You can buy a car with no money down and 0% interest. We're still spending money like crazy building new roads so people can get somewhere easier and faster.

This is the key. They can't imagine another way. My family thinks I've made some kind of reversion to childhood. For many years in my 20s I was told I had to "grow up and get a car." Heck, getting a car is a symbol of sexual maturity and independence for us. Detroit has done such a good job of marketing the beasts that we can't imagine even basic aspects of our lives without them. If you don't have a car you're never going to be a responsible adult.

That's a good list, but I'd add one more: the 50+ year history of environmental wolf-crying. An awful lot of folks have spent their entire lives hearing that the world is about to end, and having taken note of the fact that it never actually happens, have decided that maybe there are better things to pay attention to.

It HAS happened. Maybe I have a little more clarity on this as an outsider, but when I come down to the lower 48 or fly over it my thoughts are "what a complete ****hole." We've destroyed one of the most beautiful places on the planet. It's been almost totally paved over for the benefit of motor vehicles. Even the parks are crowded with cars. Like frogs in slowly boiling water people who live in it don't see it.

Well there you go. You may well believe that the world has already ended, and you may well know people who believe the same thing.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are living our lives on our un-ended world, and trying not to giggle at the folks who -- from their lofty positions of superiority -- tell us that we're living miserable lives and don't even know it.

Yes, enjoy that wonderful aroma wafting up. Smells like dinner, doesn't it?

Well there you go. You may well believe that the world has already ended, and you may well know people who believe the same thing.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are living our lives on our un-ended world, and trying not to giggle at the folks who -- from their lofty positions of superiority -- tell us that we're living miserable lives and don't even know it.

Sure, you can giggle as you sit around eating Twinkies and watching reality TV, ignoring all those pointy-headed intellectuals out there. It's kinda like when the giggling masses spend their last few dollars on a couple of cases of Budweiser. Slurp, burp, scratch. Hey man, it ain't ever gonna end. And then, uh oh, no more beer. All those doomsayers may have got the timing wrong, but if you do a little research you'll soon find out that a big crash is coming.

Another high-minded lecture dripping with condescension. And you guys are wondering why Joe and Jane Average aren't exactly falling all over themselves to get on board with the agenda? Lmao.

BTW, if you "do a little research", you discover that people have been predicting the end of the world since the beginning of recorded history. Seems to be a facet of human nature, and it also seems like the world has gone all skeptical about the Chicken Little act.

Why should Americans conserve while China and India use all the earths resources over the next 50 years?

Yeah, to produce goods consumed in North America!

Countries like the US and Canada have been for decades using way more energy then anyone else per capita. Some will claim this is because of long travel distances, but of course the average car trip is done locally, not between cities, and is only a few kilometers. We are wasteful, as least here in Canada, because we believe our resources are inexhaustible and that the land is big enough to absorb the damage we do to it.

BTW: China is soon to pass the US in total emissions, but we can't blame them - they're just following our example.

I saw a saw a cool bumper sticker on the back of a utility trike. It said "Environmental stickers don't mean s##t if there on the back of a car!"

How true it is.

Hope it said "they're" and not "there"

Clever but rather long for a bumper sticker

This is the key. They can't imagine another way. My family thinks I've made some kind of reversion to childhood. For many years in my 20s I was told I had to "grow up and get a car." Heck, getting a car is a symbol of sexual maturity and independence for us. Detroit has done such a good job of marketing the beasts that we can't imagine even basic aspects of our lives without them. If you don't have a car you're never going to be a responsible adult.
Now THAT is the freakin' truth. I used to have a t-shirt that said: "Masquerading as a responsible adult"...My ex threw it out:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

...Kids get driven the .7 miles to school in the SUV. (At least in my neighborhood they do.)...

In my neighbourhood (Cumberland, ME) I notice several parents who drive their kids the few hundred yards from the house to the end of the driveway in the SUV, then sit there with the engine idling until the schoolbus picks them up :-/ It's 35 F, sunny, no wind; I ride my bike to work and those little fatties can't even stand by the road for a few minutes...

Well there you go. You may well believe that the world has already ended, and you may well know people who believe the same thing.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are living our lives on our un-ended world, and trying not to giggle at the folks who -- from their lofty positions of superiority -- tell us that we're living miserable lives and don't even know it.

To which my response is, "How's that 3$/gallon gas working for you? What if gas is 4$/gallon next summer - how would that work for you". The vast majority of folks out there aren't car free, and for them, things aren't working out very well at all. I wouldn't say that any of this is a laughing matter either.

The population thing really is problematic. Industrialized countries are facing a crisis with too many old people being a drain on the resources. The Earth can sustain plenty more of us, however, and the fast breeding developing nations will soon slow down as they mature.

Whoever said populating space is the answer is right. I'd like to see humanity become the dominant life form of the galaxy, not just this one vulnerable planet.