View Full Version : Maybe my standards are different...
Vernon Huffman
10-29-07, 03:03 PM
First, distances are measured in thousands of miles. I've done 8K since 8/06.
Second, if a motor vehicle carries your gear, what's the point of riding a bike?
And finally, spending money or using a credit card for room & board is cheating.
Do I qualify as a long distance cyclist?
Bacciagalupe
10-29-07, 06:37 PM
Well, that depends. To oversimplify: If you're doing 100+ mile rides and then go home, then you're doing long distance. If you set up a tent at the end of your day, and get up and ride again and so forth, you're a cycle tourist. If you're riding 25 miles a day, 6 days a week, you are just a "regular cyclist."
Second, if a motor vehicle carries your gear, what's the point of riding a bike?
Depends on the ride. Many LD events, like the Furnace Creek 500, would be downright foolish to do without support. 500 miles through Death Valley, non-stop, in the middle of summer, carrying all my own gear? No thanks.
As to touring, there are several reasons to use motorized support, not the least of which is that you get all the benefits of cycling without lugging 50 pounds of your stuff all over the place.
Spending money or using a credit card for room & board is cheating.
So what are you going to do, slap my wrists? :rolleyes:
If I feel like springing for a campsite or a hotel room -- heck, if I want to do an entire tour staying in hotels -- that's my choice. No one's keeping score.
And I assure you, whatever standard of "toughness" or "hardness" or whatever it is you laud, someone else can come along and whomp you with 10,000 times as much experience. That is, unless you're Heinze Stucke or Lon Haldeman. :D
Check the Touring vs. Long Distance Cycling thread for some of the distinguishing factors of each.
You might also read the description/definition under the Long Distance Forum link, which says:
"Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling."
And ... I did a tour with a guy with standards like yours once .... only once. Came near to turning me off cycling all together.
spokenword
10-29-07, 07:06 PM
First ...
-- here's the size of my wang. Is it big enough? ;p
I can choose to do my rides with all my gear on my bike or with some of my gear in drop bags carried by someone else. That's my choice and if someone else chooses differently, I don't say that they're "cheating".
But then, I have nothing to prove to anyone but myself.
Six jours
10-29-07, 07:24 PM
I've done 8K since 8/06...Do I qualify as a long distance cyclist?
No.
Next? :lol:
StephenH
10-29-07, 07:46 PM
I remember reading quite a few years back that Art Garfunkel was hiking across the country. He would hike all day, have his limo pick him up and take him to a hotel, then come back the next day and pick up at the same spot. Whatever floats your boat. Somebody somewhere is saying "Using a bike is CHEATING!"
valygrl
10-29-07, 08:11 PM
-- here's the size of my wang. Is it big enough? ;p
Clearly it is not
valygrl
10-29-07, 08:11 PM
-- here's the size of my wang. Is it big enough? ;p
Clearly it is not
(I meant, the OP of course)
Let's not turn this into the road forum please.
The road forum's pretty tame compared to MTB.
-- here's the size of my wang. Is it big enough? ;p
:roflmao::roflmao:
To Vernon: I'll expand on spokenword's succinct masterpiece and venture to say that, yeah, you certainly ride lots, but the single biggest obstacle to your quest to become a "long distance cyclist" is your attitude (assuming you're not just yanking the collective chain, of course -- I can't really tell for sure.) From what I have observed of LD folk on this and other forums, and in real life, they are almost uniformly tolerant, supportive/encouraging of one another (even those who do competitive races), and out to have as much fun as possible while meeting their own personal challenges on the bike.
So come on, retract the fangs, no one's gonna hurt ya! ;)
why2not
10-30-07, 07:30 AM
Check the Touring vs. Long Distance Cycling thread for some of the distinguishing factors of each.
You might also read the description/definition under the Long Distance Forum link, which says:
"Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling."
+1
Vernon, you seem like an intresting guy based upon your blog. I'm not sure why you came on this sub-forum & tried to antogonize its members.
I read this sub-forum, but don't post here much, because although I often ride 100+ miles in a day, I don't consider myself a "long distance cyclist". For me, the distinction starts when I have to worry about sleep depervation & grabbing 3 hours of sleep in a muddy ditch with my bike for a blanket in order to complete my ride. I haven't had to do that yet, but hopefully I will someday :)
I suspect that you'll find more to relate to in the touring sub-forum. That is not to reject you from LD, you're welcome to continue posting here. But, your experiences and the knowledge you have gained will probably mean more to members in that sub-forum more than they will to many here. This is not an "elite" sub-forum, just a gathering of people who share the same questions/passions.
As others have said, keep in mind that riding a (relatively) long total distance over a year does not mean that you'll directly relate to many of the things discussed here. There are people in the road sub-forum who have ridden over 10000 miles in 2007 who rarely or never go on "long distance" rides.
Lastly, welcome to bikeforums & keep riding!
stevelon
10-30-07, 08:09 AM
And I assure you, whatever standard of "toughness" or "hardness" or whatever it is you laud, someone else can come along and whomp you with 10,000 times as much experience. That is, unless you're Heinze Stucke or Lon Haldeman. :D[/QUOTE]
On a recent century we came to the next sag, we'd just finished bucking a 30 mph head wind for the last 15 miles. A women said to me "Wow" that made me feel like such a Pus***. I thought this was appropriate and commented that I was glad I wasn't the only one who felt like that. She stated well you are a pus*** and I can kick your butt any day. Which she did. I'm 59 and she was 72. So much for maucho man. There's always someone better.
Jet Travis
10-30-07, 09:50 AM
What makes cycling so great is that everybody can ride to his or her own standard. I love to ramble at a comfortable pace. I stop often to snap pictures, visit museums, castles, churches or pubs. Traveling at this sauntering pace without much concern as to mileage is my joy and my freedom, but I realize it wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea. And, yes, now that I'm a 50+ member in relatively good standing, I find a bed and a shower to be most welcome--at least from time to time.
I'm not into cycling to prove how tough or pure I am. I just enjoy laying down 4-10 hours of 15-18 mph riding on a given day, at least once per week. I carry a lot more than most road riders, mostly extra repair gear and a change or two of clothes, but only enough to get me to the next hotel, or to the place to meet the support vehicle that is carrying my tent, sleeping bag, and other super-bulky items (canned food for dinner, 5-gallon jug of potable water, etc.). I'm pretty comfortable with being a wuss in those areas. I'm not the fastest, strongest, lightest, or most agile rider either. I just like it. You know...for fun.
BikerJoeP
10-30-07, 02:29 PM
(I meant, the OP of course)
Ooooooops!!!;)
I rode 125 on Wednesday, 140 on Friday and a cool 65 on Saturday. I met my wife halfway through the Friday ride because I was in a more or less remote area and she dropped off some water and gels. I don't consider myself a "cheater" because of it. Long distance is different from one's mind to another. If you load your bike down with weeks worth of crap and ride across the country then yes, you may be considered a "long distance" cyclist. If you choose to go it with a spare tube and 2 water bottles while having a support vehicle meet you every 3-4 hours to refill and restock you I think you also can be considered a " long Distance" cyclist. I personally think the challenge comes from covering as much distance as possible in the shortest amount of time. If you ride 500 miles you ride 500 miles... 4 or 5 days vice 45 hours...it's still 500 miles. Deal with it...don't be so sensitive...
barlows
10-30-07, 11:15 PM
I just like it. You know...for fun.
Well said.
First, distances are measured in thousands of miles. I've done 8K since 8/06.
Second, if a motor vehicle carries your gear, what's the point of riding a bike?
And finally, spending money or using a credit card for room & board is cheating.
Do I qualify as a long distance cyclist?
Possibly. The venerable Ken Bonner from British Comlumbia has done more long-distance events that you'll dream of doing (in fact, more than most of us will dream of doing). On quite a few of those, his lovely wife provides support with a motor vehicle that carries clothing, food, parts and tools (and Ken still is one of the best front-running riders for the stuff he carried with him).
On 1200 randonnees, however, she will not provide night support. So Ken rides at a pace that allows him to stay overnight in a motel with her. On one celebrated occasion, she drove him to a running marathon half way through a 1200, he finished the marathon, then returned to finish the randonnee within the time limit.
I don't think anyone could possibly call Ken a cheat, or imply such simply by imposing some sort of list of rules contrived to help them "fit in".
Oh, and where I come from, quite a few randonnees are completed without use of a motor vehicle for support and sometimes roadside camping in a tent has been employed. Why, some participants have even cycled over 350km overnight to the start of some long-distance events.
Mr. Beanz
10-31-07, 07:57 AM
First, distances are measured in thousands of miles. I've done 8K since 8/06.
Second, if a motor vehicle carries your gear, what's the point of riding a bike?
And finally, spending money or using a credit card for room & board is cheating.
Do I qualify as a long distance cyclist?
You sound more like the homeless guys that hang out on the trail we ride! :D
Bacciagalupe
10-31-07, 10:25 AM
Ken rides at a pace that allows him to stay overnight in a motel with her. On one celebrated occasion, she drove him to a running marathon half way through a 1200, he finished the marathon, then returned to finish the randonnee within the time limit....
OK, I think you gotta explain that one to me. ;)
What are the time limits involved? And what is his typical pace, that would let him take off for 4-8 hours and still complete on time?
OK, I think you gotta explain that one to me. ;)
What are the time limits involved? And what is his typical pace, that would let him take off for 4-8 hours and still complete on time?
A 1200Km randonee has a 90 hour time limit. An exceptional randonneur might be able to complete it in approx 50 hours, depending on the course and weather.
First, distances are measured in thousands of miles. ... I've done 8K since 8/06...
8,000,000 miles is a long way in 14 months.
But, if it's 16,000,000 trips to the corner, then maybe no.
OK, I think you gotta explain that one to me. ;)
What are the time limits involved? And what is his typical pace, that would let him take off for 4-8 hours and still complete on time?
I take it you haven't heard of Ken Bonner? He's a very strong Canadian Randonneur in his mid-60s. He generally finishes a 1200K (with a time limit of 84 or 90 hours) in under 60 hours. So he's got lots of time to go out and run a marathon. He is also a very strong marathon runner, so he doesn't exactly doddle out there while running either.
He's also a great guy ... very friendly and down-to-earth. He encourages those of us who aren't so fast, and never makes us feel like we are somehow beneath him.
Bacciagalupe
10-31-07, 07:59 PM
Nope, never heard of the guy. I know a bit more about regular pro racers than the endurance crowd.
OK, so let's say Mr Bonner is doing PBP in 60 hours (not including sleeping at a hotel. ;) ). Shall we say 10 more hours for sleep and miscellaneous resting? If so, that's an average of 15mph whilst on the bike. IIRC that's about the same as the top RAAM competitors.
So what is a more typical speed for a PBP rider? Closer to 10 mph or so?
Nope, never heard of the guy. I know a bit more about regular pro racers than the endurance crowd.
OK, so let's say Mr Bonner is doing PBP in 60 hours (not including sleeping at a hotel. ;) ). Shall we say 10 more hours for sleep and miscellaneous resting? If so, that's an average of 15mph whilst on the bike. IIRC that's about the same as the top RAAM competitors.
So what is a more typical speed for a PBP rider? Closer to 10 mph or so?
See, that's the thing: once the clock starts it doesn't stop for any reason until either you run out of time or you finish.
Others who know more will no doubt fill in the details.
Nope, never heard of the guy. I know a bit more about regular pro racers than the endurance crowd.
OK, so let's say Mr Bonner is doing PBP in 60 hours (not including sleeping at a hotel. ;) ). Shall we say 10 more hours for sleep and miscellaneous resting? If so, that's an average of 15mph whilst on the bike. IIRC that's about the same as the top RAAM competitors.
So what is a more typical speed for a PBP rider? Closer to 10 mph or so?
PBP riders finish the 1200 kms anywhere between about 48 hours and 90 hours. I would guess that most riders finish the ride between about 70 and 90 hours. These times include sleep and everything. In Randonneuring, the clock starts ticking when the riders roll out at the start, and stop when riders roll across the finish line.
Including sleep and everything, on most 1200Ks, Ken finishes in about 52-60 hours ... that's about his usual time for 1200K rides. On this year's PBP, he finished in 69 hours, but this year's PBP was an exceptional ride ... it was horrible.
If we take a look at the Rocky Mountain 1200, for example, which Ken has ridden a few times, we can see that Ken finished the 2004 RM1200 in 52 hours (including sleep, etc.), 57 hours in 2002, and 55 hours in 2000. http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/rocky/rm1200.html
This list looks fairly comprehensive, listing Ken's results and those of other members of the BC Randonneur club (remember, all those times include all breaks of any sort):
http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/recbook1/um_arc.html
There's a brief bit about Ken here: http://www.impactmagazine.ca/marchrun06/whywerun.pdf
There's a bit more about him here: http://www.ultracycling.com/about/aboutmag.html (along with a few other Names in the Long Distance business)
And you'll find bits about and by Ken all over this site ... that's his club: http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/
He makes it look so easy! :) He rolls up beside you in the middle of a ride, chats a bit, and then keeps rolling and disappears in the distance.
Carbonfiberboy
10-31-07, 10:51 PM
If I could come up with a scam so that other people would give me food and shelter so that I could ride my bike wherever I wanted, would that make me a long distance cyclist? (;-)>
No, that would make me a hippie. I'm old enough to have been a gen-u-wine hippie, so I oughta know. Felt real good, real moral and all, but it didn't work out. All that taking, see, without the putting back. Now I work hard trying to contribute to society, and they pay me and I take the money and buy bike stuff that I use to ride my bike more than most sane people would. See, that's how you know - they give you money when you do good. And the bike gives me some respite from all the pain from doing the bad that always comes along with doing the good. And I try to help others find some of that same respite.
I'm still not a long distance cyclist, I'm just a guy that trains a lot so that next spring I won't hurt too much on those brevets. Right now I need to sleep so that temporary overreaching won't turn into overtraining and it's only the end of October!
OK, I think you gotta explain that one to me. ;)
What are the time limits involved? And what is his typical pace, that would let him take off for 4-8 hours and still complete on time?
The time limit for a 1200, as stated, is 90 hours. Ken would normally do one between 52 and 60 hours, depending on road and weather conditions and terrain. That already includes, let's say, six or seven hours sleep. That's an on-road average speed of 26.6km/h, assuming time on the bike is 45 hours. That is entirely possible for someone like Ken (well, obviously, because he does maintain that speed a lot).
If it takes him an hour to be driven to the start of a marathon run, around four hours to run it, an hour to tidy up and another hour to return to his bike, he will still finish a 1200 as well as the run, in under 70 hours -- which is a faster time that many of us can only dream of riding.
Ken is a very fit individual, but he also has a reason for riding fast. He figures it's going to hurt, so he might as well make the hurt last as little time as possible... by finishing in the shortest possible time.
Bacciagalupe
11-01-07, 01:17 PM
See, that's the thing: once the clock starts it doesn't stop for any reason until either you run out of time or you finish...
Yeah, I pretty much got that part. :D 750 miles over 50 hours is 15mph average when he's actually on the bike.
I'm just curious as to the average on-bike pace for a "non-elite" rider. I'm generally guessing 75 hours + 15 hours of rest / stops / food etc = 10mph pace. Sounds easy, doesn't it?*
* KIDDING ;)
Yeah, I pretty much got that part. :D 750 miles over 50 hours is 15mph average when he's actually on the bike.
I'm just curious as to the average on-bike pace for a "non-elite" rider. I'm generally guessing 75 hours + 15 hours of rest / stops / food etc = 10mph pace.
I'm a "non-elite" rider and I usually get between about 4 and 6 hours of sleep on those rides, plus about 45 minutes at each control (I aim to be in and out in 30 minutes, but it usually takes a bit longer). So if there is a control every 100 kms, that's 12 controls. So your guess is probably quite accurate.
During the early part of these rides I try to ride over 20 km/h, but by the end, or sometimes during the nights, I'm slogging along at about 15 km/h. The sleep deprivation and overall exhaustion take their toll.
dobovedo
11-02-07, 12:21 AM
First, distances are measured in thousands of miles. I've done 8K since 8/06.
Second, if a motor vehicle carries your gear, what's the point of riding a bike?
And finally, spending money or using a credit card for room & board is cheating.
Do I qualify as a long distance cyclist?
Let's see...
First, I've ridden 10k YTD - 2k more in 4 fewer months (not bragging.. getting to a point)
Second, 3500 of those are commuting... the point of riding a bike is that I don't need a motor vehicle at all.
Finally, I don't use a CC or get room & board (although I occasionally buy a bottle of Propel or a Snickers)
But.. none of those - by themselves or collectively - have anything to do with Long Distance cycling. By your standards I'm doing it wrong too!
Except: 2500 of my other miles have been on rides of 100 miles or more, and include my first double century as well as a number of challenge rides like Cherohala, 3 State 3 Mountain and Highlander.
8,000,000 miles is a long way in 14 months.
But, if it's 16,000,000 trips to the corner, then maybe no.
Hilarious! Couldn't that also be written as 8,000 kilomiles?
hairytoes
11-02-07, 07:31 AM
+1
who have ridden over 10000 miles in 2007 who rarely or never go on "long distance" rides.
Put me in that category - almost all my riding is to work, I've ridden over 10000 miles so far this year. The furthest I've ridden in a day (this year) is 100 miles.
spokenword
11-02-07, 08:21 AM
So what is a more typical speed for a PBP rider? Closer to 10 mph or so?
The mean speed on PBP was around 9.4 mph as the mean finishing time was 79h 46m. However, that average has been slightly skewed by a small core of folks (614) who finished in less than 70h and had an average speed of 10.7mph. Almost half of the finishers (1548) finished in more than 85 h and had an average speed of 8.8 mph.
That is, of course, total speed. There are no aggregate statistics for on-bike speed.
StephenH
11-04-07, 04:06 PM
"So much for maucho man. There's always someone better."
I was out on my bike today, puffing away as I passed someone at 16 mph when some guy zips around both of us at 30 or so. So it's easy to learn some humility.
I started hiking in the mountains when we lived in Colorado. I huffed and puffed my way up Round Mountain and felt like a he-man for making it. Until I got to the top, and there were a bunch of old white-haired people that looked like they were right out of the nursing home.
Then another time, I started out on the Longs Peak trail, which starts off on a good hill. I was huffing and puffing along when this fat lady passed me. A fat lady passing me didn't bother me, but what did bother me was that as best I could tell, she wasn't breathing heavy. So yeah, you learn some humility. (I did get better...I bet by the time we moved, I could have passed the fat lady right up!)
That reminds me of one of the first organized rides I did. My daughter and I were pedaling along having a tough time with the headwind, when a group of older people who were holding an easy converation approached us. As they passed one of them asked if we were alright or needed any thing. I'm a stronger rider now, but many are stronger then I will ever be.
"So much for maucho man. There's always someone better."
I was out on my bike today, puffing away as I passed someone at 16 mph when some guy zips around both of us at 30 or so. So it's easy to learn some humility.
I started hiking in the mountains when we lived in Colorado. I huffed and puffed my way up Round Mountain and felt like a he-man for making it. Until I got to the top, and there were a bunch of old white-haired people that looked like they were right out of the nursing home.
Then another time, I started out on the Longs Peak trail, which starts off on a good hill. I was huffing and puffing along when this fat lady passed me. A fat lady passing me didn't bother me, but what did bother me was that as best I could tell, she wasn't breathing heavy. So yeah, you learn some humility. (I did get better...I bet by the time we moved, I could have passed the fat lady right up!)
I had a similar experience hiking up a mountain once, but it was a class of Mennonite kids on a field trip. All the boys in slacks and hard shoes, all the girls in dresses.
gosmsgo
11-10-07, 07:40 PM
I'm going to ride 160 miles on Wednesday to my dads house to go deer hunting.
Its long distance, I'm carfree, I'm commuting, but its only one day.
What forum should I be in? I seem to qualify for several....if only I had an alternative folding bike.
I'm going to ride 160 miles on Wednesday to my dads house to go deer hunting.
Its long distance, I'm carfree, I'm commuting, but its only one day.
What forum should I be in? I seem to qualify for several....if only I had an alternative folding bike.
I don't know about commuting, but certainly utility cycling must be in there. And if you are on a road bike... or an MTB or a BMX. And you must have questions about the mechanical side of things.
But 160 miles in one day is a pretty good deal for long-distance cycling.
Gosh, 39 replies and no word from the OP. You guys aren't used to trolls on this subforum are you?
-D
Six jours
11-10-07, 10:24 PM
I think that's the one reason we feel okay about teeing off on him: we know he's not "real".
Richard Cranium
11-11-07, 04:21 PM
And finally, spending money or using a credit card for room & board is cheating. Do I qualify as a long distance cyclist?Many people who ride bicycles, especially adults are goofy. You're one of them.
Carbonfiberboy
11-14-07, 10:50 PM
Gosh, 39 replies and no word from the OP. You guys aren't used to trolls on this subforum are you?
-DLay off the guy. He's for real. I know him! I don't think he expected this sort of reaction, but there you are.
why2not
11-15-07, 06:12 AM
I think that's the one reason we feel okay about teeing off on him: we know he's not "real".
Did you click on his name & look at his posts? He's got a blog, his name (same as here), hometown, etc, photos of himself & family all on line for the world to see. I'd say that is fairly real.
However, I don't think that he's present anymore since the OP of this thread was is last post in BF.
hairytoes
11-15-07, 07:22 AM
Did you click on his name & look at his posts? He's got a blog, his name (same as here), hometown, etc, photos of himself & family all on line for the world to see. I'd say that is fairly real.
However, I don't think that he's present anymore since the OP of this thread was is last post in BF.
This is just an obscure reference to the OP being a carbon-based lifeform, rather than made of ferrous material.
Six jours
11-15-07, 09:11 AM
Lay off the guy. He's for real. I know him! I don't think he expected this sort of reaction, but there you are.
So was the tone of his post an unfortunate accident, or does he really have that kind of chip on his shoulder?
Carbonfiberboy
11-15-07, 10:25 PM
So was the tone of his post an unfortunate accident, or does he really have that kind of chip on his shoulder?You know, when you have absolute knowledge that you are doing the right thing, and it isn't working out for you, that generates a cognitive dissonance that may manifest itself in various antisocial behaviours.
You know, when you have absolute knowledge that you are doing the right thing, and it isn't working out for you, that generates a cognitive dissonance that may manifest itself in various antisocial behaviours.
So he's a University professor then? :lol:
thechamp
11-27-07, 10:06 PM
He kind of just sounds like a jerk. Wow, so he's 'riding for peace' BFD. I'm sitting on my couch for peace and probably having the same impact, 'cept I'm not pissing anyone off by telling them how much better I am than them.
Standards are different. Whatever.
Toddorado
11-28-07, 08:42 PM
Let's not turn this into the road forum please.
Zing. Glad I'm not the only one who sees this.
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.