View Full Version : Vance's Rants
I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but I like this guy, he's got both chutzpah and cojones and isn't afraid to speak out against the terminally politically correct!
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-WJRocP8neqiEIMvKE42pnQEGckWt?p=31
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-WJRocP8neqiEIMvKE42pnQEGckWt?p=34
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-WJRocP8neqiEIMvKE42pnQEGckWt?p=37
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-WJRocP8neqiEIMvKE42pnQEGckWt?p=39
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-WJRocP8neqiEIMvKE42pnQEGckWt?p=47
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-WJRocP8neqiEIMvKE42pnQEGckWt?p=2
zeytoun
10-31-07, 02:35 PM
He seems a little bit angry to me....
Although I found his article on fixies informative.
Mr. Underbridge
10-31-07, 02:55 PM
He might be able to form a coherent point if he didn't spend 90% of the rant trying to convince readers how tough he is.
"I'm a punk-rock biker. I'm a combat cyclist."
Um. Sure. OK.
That said, if people really are moving in from out of town and pretending to speak for the established cycling community, that's pretty stupid. I've never been to Portland, but I know there's a strong contingent on this board: is the Portland bike "leadership" a bunch of carpetbaggers, or is this guy just full of it?
It's odd, though - I didn't know there was a militant *anti*-VC crowd, but this guy's an army of one.
He might be able to form a coherent point if he didn't spend 90% of the rant trying to convince readers how tough he is.
"I'm a punk-rock biker. I'm a combat cyclist."
Um. Sure. OK.
That said, if people really are moving in from out of town and pretending to speak for the established cycling community, that's pretty stupid. I've never been to Portland, but I know there's a strong contingent on this board: is the Portland bike "leadership" a bunch of carpetbaggers, or is this guy just full of it?
It's odd, though - I didn't know there was a militant *anti*-VC crowd, but this guy's an army of one.
How can he be anti-VC and anti BL?
He reads pretty much anti anything except "his way."
Dogbait
10-31-07, 03:36 PM
Carpetbaggers.
Population circa 1975.... 350,000
Population 2000....529,121
Blue Order
10-31-07, 03:37 PM
Actually, I agree with a few of his points, but his anger and blatant ignorance of and hostility towards anything he's not personally involved with get in the way of almost anything he has to say.
I think it's important to listen to people like Vance because, despite his angry rhetoric, he is obviously one of many knowledgable cyclists who don't belong to clubs, cliques, advocacy groups, BF, BP, CM, etc. etc. His rejection of both the VC and paint'n'path dogmas should cause us all to step back and think about what our goals and objectives really are and how to best accomplish them.
zeytoun
10-31-07, 03:52 PM
Carpetbaggers.
Population circa 1843: meh
Population 1975: 350,000
there were more than a few well-fed natives in the Willamette valley before the white man showed up
Blue Order
10-31-07, 03:58 PM
I think it's important to listen to people like Vance because, despite his angry rhetoric, he is obviously one of many knowledgable cyclists who don't belong to clubs, cliques, advocacy groups, BF, BP, CM, etc. etc. His rejection of both the VC and paint'n'path dogmas should cause us all to step back and think about what our goals and objectives really are and how to best accomplish them.I think it would be presumptuous to assume that people, whatever their agenda, haven't thought about what their goals are, or that they aren't operating in furtherance of those goals.
Of course, as you say, it doesn't hurt to do some self-evaluation every now and then.
But the same would go for somebody who's had as many problems as he's had.
-=Łem in Pa=-
10-31-07, 04:09 PM
I think it's important to listen to people like Vance because, despite his angry rhetoric, he is obviously one of many knowledgable cyclists who don't belong to clubs, cliques, advocacy groups, BF, BP, CM, etc. etc. His rejection of both the VC and paint'n'path dogmas should cause us all to step back and think about what our goals and objectives really are and how to best accomplish them.
I agree with your view, 100%, Randya.
There are a lot of people who dont want or feel the need to
make a statement of any kind when they ride and no one
really speaks for them because they dont want a voice.
My motto is "fly under the radar' sneaky like a ninja :D
Jonathan said he had a polite and reasonable one-on-one discussion with Vance, but his rants on the internet are a bit over the top. I think the internet is part of the problem, just look at some of the crap that goes on around BF. Blogs are the ultimate extemporaneous public self-expression these days.
-=Łem in Pa=-
10-31-07, 04:12 PM
That east coast folk hero bill dozer uses the internet
to FOX-a-tize editorially, too.
zeytoun
10-31-07, 04:26 PM
there were more than a few well-fed natives in the Willamette valley before the white man showed up
Yes, but they lacked deeds to the land, so they must have been just passing through...
-=Łem in Pa=-
10-31-07, 04:31 PM
I would have done it when I was 12 if I knew all the pain and angst
the 'lil fella was going to cause me........
I agree with your view, 100%, Randya.
There are a lot of people who dont want or feel the need to
make a statement of any kind when they ride and no one
really speaks for them because they dont want a voice.
My motto is "fly under the radar' sneaky like a ninja :D
The only problem with flying that "independent" flag is loosing a collective powerful voice when facing larger organizations like DOT or others that may somehow work to legislate cycling in some manner that doesn't suit you.
That east coast folk hero bill dozer uses the internet
to FOX-a-tize editorially, too.
I posted one of Bill's pieces recently, too.
:)
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=356782
-=Łem in Pa=-
10-31-07, 04:35 PM
"The only problem with flying that "independent" flag is loosing a collective powerful voice when facing larger organizations like DOT or others that may somehow work to legislate cycling in some manner that doesn't suit you."
I realize that and do think about it, but really,
who speaks for us now and what have they done ?
We are so fractionalized there isnt really a coherent,
universal voice, anywhere. In another states advocacy
group I contributed to one members raison 'd etre
was circles.....traffic circles would cure everything...:rolleyes:
How do you get anywhere with all these private agendas
taking precedent over whats best for all....from kids to
commuters ?
The only problem with flying that "independent" flag is loosing a collective powerful voice when facing larger organizations like DOT or others that may somehow work to legislate cycling in some manner that doesn't suit you.
one of his key points is that it is actually people within the 'cycling community' that are doing the harm, with their seemingly blind advocacy for paint and path solutions.
Blue Order
10-31-07, 04:39 PM
one of his key points is that it is actually people within the 'cycling community' that are doing the harm, with their seemingly blind advocacy for paint and path solutions.Because if there were no paint or paths, we could all have our penises cut off, just like him?
Yeah, that'll convince the paint'n'path crowd they're on the wrong...er...path.
Pete - exactly what I was thinking.
I think his point was that he was in a serious bike accident and still doesn't think more paint and paths are the solution to the problem.
Blue Order
10-31-07, 04:44 PM
I think his point was that he was in a serious bike accident and still doesn't think more paint and paths are the solution to the problem.His argument isn't convincing, what with that severed penis as exhibit #1...
how exactly do you know his story isn't true? do you frequently lie about whether your penis has been severed and reattached or not?
one of his key points is that it is actually people within the 'cycling community' that are doing the harm, with their seemingly blind advocacy for paint and path solutions.
Then he needs to rally others to oppose this cycling contingent... perhaps it isn't clear to him that any "community" will have a louder "voice" than any individual.
If he has a consistent following, he should rally his followers to usurp the group he doesn't want in power.
It is interesting that the "cycling community" has chosen a "leader" who was not a local. Certainly that says something about the locals. Apparently there was a local leader in the past...
My point is that ranting on the 'net may allow him to vent, and may make a few others raise a beer or two toward the ideas he rants about... but is he doing anything beyond that? Is he actively doing anything?
He needs to get off his duff and go to public meetings, put in face time, and meet with decision makers... otherwise he is just another member of the silent majority... sitting on their hands ranting "they" do this... and "they" do that... yet never being one of "them."
you should go to his blog and say that to him
:)
Blue Order
10-31-07, 05:06 PM
I'm not doubting his story. I'm saying if his argument is "We don't need no stinking infrastructure, we can all ride like me, who lost his penis in a collision with a car..."**, it would tend to convince most people that we DO need infrastructure.
** I'm assuming his severed penis story is somehow related to his preferred riding style, rather than being a completely unrelated rambling...
Blue Order
10-31-07, 05:08 PM
It is interesting that the "cycling community" has chosen a "leader" who was not a local. I think you're giving his rant more credence than is warranted...
I think Vance's argument distilled down comes to this:
1. HPVs should not be regulated or limited in any way, be that mandatory licenses, helmets, or segregated facilities.
2. Better, unbiased enforcement of existing laws.
3. Mandatory fines and suspensions for motorists injuring or killing a cyclist.
4. More motorist and cyclist education.
I'm not doubting his story. I'm saying if his argument is "We don't need no stinking infrastructure, we can all ride like me, who lost his penis in a collision with a car..."**, it would tend to convince most people that we DO need infrastructure.
** I'm assuming his severed penis story is somehow related to his preferred riding style, rather than being a completely unrelated rambling...
you're being totally unfair, you know nothing about his riding style, other than where he says bicyclists need to stay out of the way of motorists, actually a much more conservative interpretation of ORS 814.430 than I personally have.
Blue Order
10-31-07, 05:25 PM
you're being totally unfair, you know nothing about his riding style, other than where he says bicyclists need to stay out of the way of motorists, actually a much more conservative interpretation of ORS 814.430 than I personally have.He's told us about his riding style, write there in his posts:
I have had pieces of my shattered collar-bone dug out of my left lung. I've had my penis cut off, and re-attached. I was hit by an intoxicated motorist at the corner of SE Division and SE 45th Ave. resulting in a broken pelvis, 24 broken ribs, broken sternum, fractured skull, 10 broken fingers, and a broken neck. I have shattered car windows, smashed quarter-panels, yelled, screamed, thrown elbows; and every inch, of every mile, I've ever ridden, I've DEMANDED my fair spot on the road.
OK, so each of us is cherry picking something from his rants to support our own point of view.
What you've selected I believe would support an argument for more motorist education and stiff penalties for injuring or killing a cyclist.
Mr. Underbridge
10-31-07, 07:05 PM
How can he be anti-VC and anti BL?
I don't know, but he is. Thought it was kind of funny myself. He basically seems to think that people MUST ride in the right side of the lane - not two feet to the right in the bike lane, and not two feet to the left in the vehicular lane. Not my place to say what's the best way to ride his local streets, since I don't live there, but his viewpoint seems mighty rigid.
He reads pretty much anti anything except "his way."
Yep. To me, he seems angry that the Portland bike scene is starting to be dominated by liberals and people in spandex (his words), instead of combat cyclist punk bikers (his words). I think that if you boil down his disturbingly irrational anger to its basis, the new guys insult his sense of cool much more than his sense of cycling.
The sad thing is, I would agree with his point that the leaders of the local advocacy group should have more than a couple years cycling in Portland. Problem is, his pathological hatred of them will marginalize his point of view - and possibly tar other opponents with the same brush.
I had no idea malkovich was a cyclist.
Blue Order
10-31-07, 07:35 PM
The sad thing is, I would agree with his point that the leaders of the local advocacy group should have more than a couple years cycling in Portland.Here's one of the problems with Vance's credibility:
The BTA has been advocating for Oregon cyclists since 1990 (http://www.bta4bikes.org/at_work/index.php):
About the Bicycle Transportation Alliance
The Bicycle Transportation Alliance (BTA) is a non-profit membership organization working to promote bicycling and improve bicycling conditions in Oregon and SW Washington. Since 1990, the BTA has worked in partnership with citizens, businesses, community groups, government agencies and elected officials to create communities where people can meet their daily transportation needs on a bike.
And yet Vance-- by his own description a Portland native and longtime cyclist-- only first heard of the BTA in October of 2007. Not very aware of what's going on in his own hometown, it would seem.
And Scott Bricker? I don't know if Scott is a Portland native or not, but Scott has been advocating for Oregon cyclists since 1998: (http://www.bta4bikes.org/at_work/staff.php)
Scott Bricker,
Executive Director
Scott joined the BTA staff in 1998 as the Bicycle Safety Education Program Director. He wrote the BTA’s award-winning bicycle safety education curriculum, which has reached more than 25,000 Oregon school children. Since then, he has played a major role in shaping the BTA’s Safe Routes to School program. With a Masters degree in Urban and Regional Planning from Portland State University, Scott has been working on transportation issues for 10 years. He currently serves as the BTA's lobbyist at the state Legislature in addition to representing cycling interests on numerous statewide and regional transportation committees. He also has expertise in the issues of youth mobility. A firm believer in stylish and practical cycling, Scott is a proponent of wool clothes and leather saddles.
And yet once again, Vance, the Portland native and longtime cyclist, has never heard of him.
Sure, Vance has a bone to pick and he may be exaggerating, but believe it or not, not every cyclist in Portland has heard of the BTA.
Maybe Vance had a head injury in his bad accident, and really doesn't remember. I know a few cyclists and peds that have been hurt badly and they're not always the same person afterwards.
Blue Order
10-31-07, 07:58 PM
Sure, Vance has a bone to pick and he may be exaggerating, but believe it or not, not every cyclist in Portland has heard of the BTA.True, and one wouldn't expect that the average person might have heard of them. But his intense anger at his suddenly discovering what's been going on in this town for the last 17 years is unwarranted.
Maybe Vance had a head injury in his bad accident, and really doesn't remember. I know a few cyclists and peds that have been hurt badly and they're not always the same person afterwards.True, good point. It might even account for his anger.
Pepper Grinder
11-01-07, 04:40 AM
links no worky for me :(
Fun's over, looks like he got too many hits and pulled the blog entries, or maybe the yahoo 360 platform he's using just sucks; anyway, he posted a message about 'hacker *******s'. I thought bloggers wanted you to read their rants, otherwise, what's the point?
http://360.yahoo.com/vancelongwell
I think Vance's argument distilled down comes to this:
1. HPVs should not be regulated or limited in any way, be that mandatory licenses, helmets, or segregated facilities.
2. Better, unbiased enforcement of existing laws.
3. Mandatory fines and suspensions for motorists injuring or killing a cyclist.
4. More motorist and cyclist education.
All good points.
And you said it without the anger and profanity.
Thank youl
Vance Longwell
05-23-08, 12:30 PM
Oh now c'mon. You don't know me well enough to presume such nonsense. Argue the content, not the guy. Personal motivations are usually pretty beside-the-point when I write. What's the latin? Ad-hominem, or something. Ya.
Blue Order
05-23-08, 12:50 PM
But Vance, aren't your personal attacks on Scott Bricker exactly what you're arguing against now? Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out one of the problems I've had with your posts about Scott.
Oh, and welcome to Bikeforums, by the way. :)
Blue Order
05-23-08, 01:02 PM
By the way Vance, I think your posts on Bikeportland have improved dramatically-- progressing from what were once angry, profanity-laced ad hominem attacks on Scott Bricker to thoughtful posts. I don't always agree with what you say, especially regarding that mofo Randal Tool (irony ;) ), but what you have to say is noticeably improved in style and substance.
Bekologist
05-25-08, 04:42 AM
Vance- perhaps you'd like to illuminate Bike forums directly about your anti-infrastructure stance and why you think it would be a good thing for bicycling in your community.
A curious progression occurs in bicyclists- they get comfortable 'mixing it up' with traffic and find infrastructure not important to their riding or even a hinderance. Discovering independance from infrastructure doesn't eliminate the positive effects bike specific infrastructure has on a community.
For every cyclist loudly proclaiming infrastructure 'cramps their style', there's 98 other cyclists glad to have it.
And Vance, I'm an angry, urban militant cyclist myself, but recognize the value a facilities-rich streetscape brings to urban bicycling.
Vance Longwell
05-26-08, 07:08 PM
Okay so I started to write a comment. It got really, really long. Decided just to post it on my site. I put a little work into it, and think I pretty well covered any 'splainin I had to do. With that I hope that it gets read. Thanks again. I'm over at http://vancelongwell.blogspot.com/. Sorry about the link. If it needs to come down, feel free, or let me know and I'll change it.
Blue Order
05-26-08, 08:25 PM
Oh now c'mon. You don't know me well enough to presume such nonsense. Argue the content, not the guy. Personal motivations are usually pretty beside-the-point when I write. What's the latin? Ad-hominem, or something. Ya.The reason I can't take this complaint seriously is because (A) I don’t think anybody here, including me, has made an ad hominem attack on you, and (B) you yourself are the one resorting to ad hominem attacks. (http://vancelongwell.blogspot.com/)
It’s called “projection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection).”
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