Living Car Free - Faith, ethics, values and a car-free or car-light lifestyle

IMO, people are a part of the environment. People are so entwined with the biosystem, which is so entwined with the geosystem, that it doesn't even make sense to talk about people OR the environment. It's only people AND the environment.

Anyway, a lot of people die every day because of dirty air. So do other plants and animals.

These are good points. We've outlawed smoking in public places, why not drvingi? People do influence the enviroment, but to me that is not justification to kill them in favor of the enviroment. People die falling off of ladders but I'll still use them. Also cars are a factor in human death so often that seems like a justification to use them less. But it is a logical reason, not a religious-belief based one.

BTW-- This looks like the US does not have more oil, total than Saudi Arabia. I have the full size poster.
http://www.oilposter.org/posterlarge.html. Most pro-oil folks might not be persuaded by this source, unlike me.

Slag,

If that be the case, I obviouly missed the tone fo your piece. It sounded to me as if this fundamentalist approach was your personal view. I was biting my tounge to not write more in response...

carry on

Christian fundamentalists often use the term "godless" to refer to Christians who don't misread the Bible as they do. I've seen this up close - a fundie I knew complained that during a trip to "godless Ireland" he couldn't find a Christian church. I've even been the victim of it recently. Perhaps slagjumper is a recovering fundie and hasn't rid himself of all vestiges of twisted thinking.


It's really amazing how many people here in the Baptist South consider Catholics to not be Christian...

It's really amazing how many people here in the Baptist South consider Catholics to not be Christian...

You screwed up the quotations, making it look like I wrote something that was actually written by The Historian. Please use the edit function to fix this.

Edit--I take that back, since it looks like I inadvertantly did the same thing. Evidently the quotation function isn't working properly. I'll report it to the mods.

Slag,

If that be the case, I obviouly missed the tone fo your piece. It sounded to me as if this fundamentalist approach was your personal view. I was biting my tounge to not write more in response...

carry on

I am Mennonite. Mostly people in my church are literalists when it comes to the bible. Being pro bike and anti oil/car I am interested in building compelling bible-based justifications for less or no car use. Historically many mennonites have at least a car-lite perspective in keeping with stewartship themes found in the bible. Some used to go so far as to paint the chrome black on thier bumpers. I probably have the oldest and crappiest car of anyone at my urban church. Despite biblical demands for simplicity, wealth and safety justificaions mean that many of my fellow church members drive fancy, expensive cars. I have not let loose on anyone about that, because I dont want to be written off as an extemist, but I would like to build a solid bible based argument and persuade more to go car free or car lite.

Of course I dont mean to be overly insesitive or poke too much fun at my fellow church members. We are imperfect sinners strugling to do what is best. One guy works for the VA and saved the government 1 billion dollars on drugs, at the expense of the drug companies and ressellors. I hope you can see that it is hard to tell that guy that he should not drive a car or fly. Perhaps he should. Could be like Keirkigards essay on the teleoligical suspension of the ethcial. Maybe I think too much.

http://www.allfreeessays.net/student/Teleological_Suspension_of_the_Ethical.html

I am Mennonite. Mostly people in my church are literalists when it comes to the bible. Being pro bike and anti oil/car I am interested in building compelling bible-based justifications for less or no car use. Historically many mennonites have at least a car-lite perspective in keeping with stewartship themes found in the bible. Some used to go so far as to paint the chrome black on thier bumpers. I probably have the oldest and crappiest car of anyone at my urban church. Despite biblical demands for simplicity, wealth and safety justificaions mean that many of my fellow church members drive fancy, expensive cars. I have not let loose on anyone about that, because I dont want to be written off as an extemist, but I would like to build a solid bible based argument and persuade more to go car free or car lite.

Of course I dont mean to be overly insesitive or poke too much fun at my fellow church members. We are imperfect sinners strugling to do what is best. One guy works for the VA and saved the government 1 billion dollars on drugs, at the expense of the drug companies and ressellors. I hope you can see that it is hard to tell that guy that he should not drive a car or fly. Perhaps he should. Could be like Keirkigards essay on the teleoligical suspension of the moral.

I remember when Mennonites wouldn't drive a car that had chrome on it, so I was surprised to learn that some are now driving fancy cars. Since it's a peace church, maybe you sould remind them that oil is leading us into more and more wars?

Edit--I take that back, since it looks like I inadvertantly did the same thing. Evidently the quotation function isn't working properly. I'll report it to the mods.

I think I was able to straighten out all of them, I had to edit a few posts but I thing I got them all right. Let me know if I didn't.

I remember when Mennonites wouldn't drive a car that had chrome on it, so I was surprised to learn that some are now driving fancy cars. Since it's a peace church, maybe you sould remind them that oil is leading us into more and more wars?


The overconsumption of any finite resrouce will lead people into conflict over that resource. This is why I see conservation of resources as a personal, ethical responsibility. I'm sure the same argument can be made in Slag's case.

No one has to fight over wind rights, or solar rights. It's there for everyone to have. The only resource that could be argued over would be the specialized engineers who get the necessary devices in operation. But that could be handled with increased education.

Being pro bike and anti oil/car I am interested in building compelling bible-based justifications for less or no car use.

No problem with that. In my experience, it's the only way to get certain portions of the population to pay attention to you.

I remember when Mennonites wouldn't drive a car that had chrome on it, so I was surprised to learn that some are now driving fancy cars. Since it's a peace church, maybe you sould remind them that oil is leading us into more and more wars?

There are a lot of Mennonite groups, from the ultra-conservatives and traditional types to the more progressive elements. Although we tend to agree on the basics, there are some areas where the differences are quite visible.

Wow, I had to Wikipedia Mennonite to see what it was about - very close to my own beliefs, skipping the nonviolence part (I am pacifistic, but believe in self-defense and national defense, not aggression). I have given thought to a close Biblical read and argument toward car-lite, although I wanted to bolster it in some Zen and Buddhist beliefs as well (my wife is Buddhist oriented and I find it dovetails nicely into my personal beliefs).

Let me see what I can do. Can anyone tell me which version of the Bible is preferred, New Living Translation, KJV, NIV, etc?

It's really amazing how many people here in the Baptist South consider Catholics to not be Christian...

Not really that shocking. I've run into Baptists who consider the Southern Baptist Convention to not be Christian. I think the catch phrase was 'infected with humanism.'

Let me see what I can do. Can anyone tell me which version of the Bible is preferred, New Living Translation, KJV, NIV, etc?

I personally read the KJV, but the NIV and RSV are the most common used at my church - also Mennonite. I believe the Living Bible and New Living Translation are closer to paraphrases than translations of scripture.

I am Mennonite. Mostly people in my church are literalists when it comes to the bible. Being pro bike and anti oil/car I am interested in building compelling bible-based justifications for less or no car use. Historically many mennonites have at least a car-lite perspective in keeping with stewartship themes found in the bible. Some used to go so far as to paint the chrome black on thier bumpers. I probably have the oldest and crappiest car of anyone at my urban church. Despite biblical demands for simplicity, wealth and safety justificaions mean that many of my fellow church members drive fancy, expensive cars. I have not let loose on anyone about that, because I dont want to be written off as an extemist, but I would like to build a solid bible based argument and persuade more to go car free or car lite.

Of course I dont mean to be overly insesitive or poke too much fun at my fellow church members. We are imperfect sinners strugling to do what is best. One guy works for the VA and saved the government 1 billion dollars on drugs, at the expense of the drug companies and ressellors. I hope you can see that it is hard to tell that guy that he should not drive a car or fly. Perhaps he should. Could be like Keirkigards essay on the teleoligical suspension of the ethcial. Maybe I think too much.

http://www.allfreeessays.net/student/Teleological_Suspension_of_the_Ethical.html

First, let me apologize for stating you were not a Christian. I misread your post, and posted too hastily in response.

Secondly, I agree the balancing act between being IN THE WORLD, which Christians are to be, and being OF THE WORLD or WORLDLY, is a difficult one. I likewise worship in a church with a parking lot full of SUVs and trucks. I have a certain novelty value as the token bike commuter. But I am setting an example of sorts, and perhaps one Sunday I'll find a second or third bike tied up to the basketball hoop. I hope your continued use of your bike will likewise win you a 'follower.'

NIV and RSV - New International and Revised Standard.... ok. This will not be a short-term project - this might take a while.

The overconsumption of any finite resrouce will lead people into conflict over that resource. This is why I see conservation of resources as a personal, ethical responsibility. I'm sure the same argument can be made in Slag's case.

No one has to fight over wind rights, or solar rights. It's there for everyone to have. The only resource that could be argued over would be the specialized engineers who get the necessary devices in operation. But that could be handled with increased education.

Actually that can and does happen. My parents had solar panels on one of our houses growing up, the church across the street wanted to build a 3 story sunday school building that was going to shade our panels at least part of the day. It took a court order to make them cease and desist. What was even more fun was the fact that the court order uncovered the fact that the building they were planning was outside of local codes and the building inspector, code enforcement officer and the planning committee chair were on the take:D I suspect as things move along towards more use of wind and solar we will see some of the issues crop up that are already affecting water supply in some parts of the country.

Aaron:)

There are a lot of reasons why I am car-light. And I suppose that if dissected, some of them could point toward spiritual. But spirituality or religion wasn't a consideration for me going that route.

Values and ethics however, are a major player in my decisions.

I'm notorious for humming "Ein' Feste Burg ist unser Gott" on my four mile ride. My Lutheran friends would be so proud of me.

Amen.

I remember when Mennonites wouldn't drive a car that had chrome on it, so I was surprised to learn that some are now driving fancy cars. Since it's a peace church, maybe you sould remind them that oil is leading us into more and more wars?

This is a shock to many. Around here the larger families might have Honda Odysseys, smaller families might have Priuses, mini coopers No Cadies, one hybrid SUV.. More expensive than fancy I guess. One guy had an old Mercedes. Only 60 members, all adults have at least a BA/BS most with Masters Degrees, 7 Medical Doctors. A few are hunting gun owners, all are anti current war. Pretty much have the appearances of the American-liberal norm.

To borrow from an ideological enemy -- Oil doesn’t cause wars, industry and governments do.

One of the most frustrating points is that there is a strong distain for politics. However some have gone to various protests and stood, successfully with Anarchists and others against the local recruiters and the war. As a child of the 60's I think that protesting is OK and am bringing my kids up that way.

Definitely the idea of leading by example is a good one. Also there are the kids who love biking. It can be challenging to organize a group to take up a particular fight. There are so many issues today. Things like poverty, unjust imprisonment, racism, war, 3rd world/local health. I admire the anarchist way of organizing into small action groups. Then you can pick what you want to participate in.

When it comes to fighting for what are right, weak groups will loose less if they take on active resistance, rather than violence. Remember that dude who stood up to the Chinese tank or Ghandi? As far as passivity is concerned, like any commandment, we are all sinners and might not act according to God’s rules. Also it takes some stones to stand and take it. When your enemy sees that they get a respect for you and what you stand for. Done this way, not resorting to violence does not equal being a wuss.

I am Mennonite. [snipped for clarity] I probably have the oldest and crappiest car of anyone at my urban church. Despite biblical demands for simplicity, wealth and safety justificaions mean that many of my fellow church members drive fancy, expensive cars. I have not let loose on anyone about that, because I dont want to be written off as an extemist, but I would like to build a solid bible based argument and persuade more to go car free or car lite.

Of course I dont mean to be overly insesitive or poke too much fun at my fellow church members. We are imperfect sinners strugling to do what is best. One guy works for the VA and saved the government 1 billion dollars on drugs, at the expense of the drug companies and ressellors. I hope you can see that it is hard to tell that guy that he should not drive a car or fly. Perhaps he should. Could be like Keirkigards essay on the teleoligical suspension of the ethcial. Maybe I think too much.

http://www.allfreeessays.net/student/Teleological_Suspension_of_the_Ethical.html

I don't think you think too much. I took up some research on Christian stewardship of the earth, and found a small community that seem to take the idea of stewardship seriously. I have on my blog (or will have, as I haven't decided to post it up there or not) an argument to more involved Christian ecological involvement. My blog is in my sig.

I was in a Ecology class and my friend (who happens to be an atheist) was criticizing Christians for thinking that this planet was given to them by God, so it is their right and obligation to rape its resources.

But that is not the Christian teaching. Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden and commanded to take care of it. You can take that story as either literal or symbolic, but in either case the commandment ws never abrogated. Our relationship with nature was disrupted by the Fall, but it is God's will that all things be restored through Christ.

Look at St. Francis of Assisi, John Milton, and Cecil Francis Alexander to take just three examples from three very different parts of the Christian tradition.

The Christian teaching is that we are stewards of all that God has given us, and will be held accountable for our stewardship.

A comment on another thread has got me thinking. Does your religious faith or your sense of ethics or values play a role in your choice to go car-free or car-light?

I'm not looking for a debate on religion here; I just want to know how your values will affect your lifestyle and why.

No.

But that is not the Christian teaching. Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden and commanded to take care of it. You can take that story as either literal or symbolic, but in either case the commandment ws never abrogated. Our relationship with nature was disrupted by the Fall, but it is God's will that all things be restored through Christ.

Look at St. Francis of Assisi, John Milton, and Cecil Francis Alexander to take just three examples from three very different parts of the Christian tradition.

The Christian teaching is that we are stewards of all that God has given us, and will be held accountable for our stewardship.

Exactly. The crucial part of this is that we are to care of the land like it ISN'T our own.In Leviticus 25: 23-24, we can find the answer to how far our dominion goes:
The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with me. And in all the land of your possession ye shall grant a redemption for the land (KJV).
We have power, but it is a physical control, much like a lending a car to a friend. There is a difference between lendiing to a friend, versus lending to family. Family borrows, but when dad lends his car to his kid, no matter what happens, if the kid messes up, it’s ok. He may grumble, and complain, but the child still gets access to the car. A friend gets a ticket, or worse, a fender bender, and that’s it, no if’s, and’s or but’s. We are the friend in this instance – we are to take care of the earth the same way we would a friend’s vehicle.

But that is not the Christian teaching. Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden and commanded to take care of it. You can take that story as either literal or symbolic, but in either case the commandment ws never abrogated. Our relationship with nature was disrupted by the Fall, but it is God's will that all things be restored through Christ.

Look at St. Francis of Assisi, John Milton, and Cecil Francis Alexander to take just three examples from three very different parts of the Christian tradition.

The Christian teaching is that we are stewards of all that God has given us, and will be held accountable for our stewardship.

You point out some exceptions, but I think for the most part organized Christianity has been antagonistic toward the environmental viewpoint. So have Judaism and Islam, which are based on the same Creation Myth. Many Christians do believe that the world was created for man. Many believe that this world is not our real home, but just a temporary dwelling.

Many believe that this world is not our real home, but just a temporary dwelling.

Oh, that explains it. Like a renter mentality. Maybe this explains the Bush administration's hostility to environmental protection since he has admitted to the delusion that he talks to god.

Oh, that explains it. Like a renter mentality. Maybe this explains the Bush administration's hostility to environmental protection since he has admitted to the delusion that he talks to god.

Its not that he talks to God, it that he think God talks back to him.

I like this thread, so I was just rereading it. It's interesting, but not surprising that so many folks here are Mennonite. My own background (childhood) was Unitarian-Universalist. This is one of the so-called peace churches, along with Mennonite, Amish, Quaker and maybe a couple others. These churches are very different in their theologies, but they share a pacifist philosophy and a belief that one should live one's religion rather than speak it. Social justice is an important concept for many of them, along with, as we've seen here, the concept of stewardship. They also tend (to different degrees) to be simple or "plain" people--frugal and not easily swayed by the latest fad or by possessions in general.

It would be interesting to find out if there are more carfree people in the peace churches. I bet there are. (Betting--kinda frowned on by these folks ;))

A comment on another thread has got me thinking. Does your religious faith or your sense of ethics or values play a role in your choice to go car-free or car-light?

I'm not looking for a debate on religion here; I just want to know how your values will affect your lifestyle and why.

I belive in god but not his followers. and just read in a discover magazine that trees produce more greenhouse gasses than car exaust does.

but my reason for being car light is...........

I like to ride my bicycles

It would be interesting to find out if there are more carfree people in the peace churches. I bet there are. (Betting--kinda frowned on by these folks ;))

I went to a Unitarian Fellowship when I was growing up. My impression was that they liked to discuss things more than do things.

I belive in god but not his followers. and just read in a discover magazine that trees produce more greenhouse gasses than car exaust does.

but my reason for being car light is...........

I like to ride my bicycles

What article in Discover?

ill see if I can find the issue / article tonight. I got about 3 years worth of discover and about 10 years of national geographic laying around. all of it together probably still cost less than a television.

ill see if I can find the issue / article tonight. I got about 3 years worth of discover and about 10 years of national geographic laying around. all of it together probably still cost less than a television.

I suggest you read the National Geographic articles on global warming. They do a good job of covering the topic.

Anyway, this is all way off-topic. National Geographic also does a good job of covering religious issues in a cultural context.