View Full Version : Faith, ethics, values and a car-free or car-light lifestyle
Newspaperguy
11-01-07, 07:11 PM
A comment on another thread has got me thinking. Does your religious faith or your sense of ethics or values play a role in your choice to go car-free or car-light?
I'm not looking for a debate on religion here; I just want to know how your values will affect your lifestyle and why.
slowjoe66
11-01-07, 08:28 PM
Committed christian here. But I am car lite because cycling is good for me, saves money and makes sense in a $3.15 a gallon world. Religious/ethics don't really factor in for me; I'm a recovering environmentalist.
adgrant
11-01-07, 08:57 PM
I am an atheist. I am car free largely because living car free in Manhattan is so easy and parking a car is so expensive, I really can't justify it to myself or anyone else.
I quite like cars though I don't like being totally dependent on them and I really hate SUVs. They seem so gratuitously wasteful and unsafe that I can't see a good reason to own one (unless you need to tow on a regular basis I guess).
rockmom
11-01-07, 09:06 PM
My ethics and values play a role. I am an atheist so religious beliefs do not factor into it.
Artkansas
11-01-07, 10:01 PM
I'm Unitarian/Taoist. It affects how I bicycle. I go with the flow. I think that the ethics of environmentalism affected me when I was young. But once I got out on my own, car-free living was its own reward.
My spiritual values do affect me in that I appreciate this creation more because I pedal through it rather than drive. That gets me closer and makes me observe it in more detail. It was commuting to school by bike when I figured out that the time the moon rose was related to its phase.
It seems to me that the car is an object that encourages selfish behavior. The bike encourages exposure to people, places, and nature. The car separates us from our physical faculties, whereas the bike encourages their use. There are spiritual implications for these tendencies. It isn't cut-and-dried but I think it leans in that direction.
Newspaperguy
11-02-07, 12:12 AM
I'm a Mennonite Christian. While going car-light is primarily something I enjoy, there are also some spiritual considerations.
First, when I walk or cycle, I'm able to think, pray and enjoy the moment. In a car, that meditative atmosphere is gone.
Second, I believe in living a simple lifestyle. This is not rock bottom frugal, although I've been there. Instead, it's about determining the difference between what I need and what I want. Sometimes, what I want isn't good for me or for others around me. The choices I make will have a significant impact and if I choose to be greedy, others will feel the effects of my decision.
Third, the way I treat creation will speak volumes about my attitude to the Creator.
... Third, the way I treat creation will speak volumes about my attitude to the Creator.
Yes, that's well said. In fact I agree with your whole post, and endorse all you've said. I certainly don't call myself a Christian, though, because that would group me with millions of people whose ethics I reject. Nonetheless I suppose I am a christian, as long as I don't have to capitalize the word, because I respect and try to follow Christ's fundamental teachings: the golden rule, turn the other cheek, pay Caesar his dues, etc.
I feel a whole lot closer to the creator when I'm riding my bike than I ever did sitting in a church, even when I was in the choir many years ago, or when my son was in the choir, much more recently.
I922sParkCir
11-02-07, 06:45 AM
I am a Christian. It actually did impact my choice to become car-free. I was in a Ecology class and my friend (who happens to be an atheist) was criticizing Christians for thinking that this planet was given to them by God, so it is their right and obligation to rape its resources. It dawned on me that he was correct to a point. It was that statement that changed my life. I just thought being car-free (along with several other actions) was the right thing to do.
-Jai
Edit**
Third, the way I treat creation will speak volumes about my attitude to the Creator.
That is such an awesome quote.
jonathan180iq
11-02-07, 07:38 AM
Third, the way I treat creation will speak volumes about my attitude to the Creator.
That's a pretty awesome quote.
I'm a naturalist that believes in God; an evolutionist that believes in creation (naturally).
I respect the environment and the universe and a ride on a bicycle brings those two things together.
At one time, I am a part of nature, while remaining tied to human society.
I am an atheist so religious beliefs do not factor into it.
Me too. Car free just made more sense than car dependent. When I learned how car culture has changed our world for the worse, it seemed logical to stop driving.
fat_bike_nut
11-02-07, 11:05 AM
Me too. Car free just made more sense than car dependent. When I learned how car culture has changed our world for the worse, it seemed logical to stop driving.
I'm an atheist as well. Just because someone doesn't have religious faith doesn't mean that one lacks a conscience about the rest of the world.
MrCjolsen
11-02-07, 11:17 AM
God has given me the ability to ride a bike long distances comfortably and easily. Others are not as lucky.
Since I have the abilty to go without my car, using it any more than absolutely necessary would be taking more than my fair share.
.......Third, the way I treat creation will speak volumes about my attitude to the Creator.
plus a bunch
Christian here, more liberatarian (small, limited governemtn leanings) than anything else.
We're tasked with being good stewards to the Earth and all the rest of Creation. It's here for our use, but not abuse.
Self and family are car lite. Recovering from a very much car-centered lifestyle. Anyone want to buy a $400 wideband oxygen sensor to help tune your, um, lawnmower? guaranteed 25% more power:rolleyes:. I have one collecting dust in the garage...
Ian Freeman
11-02-07, 11:37 AM
Ethics and values play a large role in my being car-free. Cars are a centerpiece of consumer culture, one of those big-ticket items that people will use to portray social class and wealth. I strongly desire to disassociate myself with that culture, and riding a bike is a fantastic way to promote a more simple and frugal life. I never smile or wave so much to my fellow man than while riding my bike, it's an inherently more wholesome from of transport.
I would say that my atheism has affected the choice as well, because my life philosophy is to leave only my footprints once my time is up. Riding a bike makes for a much less wasteful life, leaving a cleaner Earth for future generations.
Newspaperguy
11-02-07, 11:57 AM
God has given me the ability to ride a bike long distances comfortably and easily. Others are not as lucky.
Since I have the abilty to go without my car, using it any more than absolutely necessary would be taking more than my fair share.
That is absolutely brilliant.
Cosmoline
11-02-07, 12:02 PM
A comment on another thread has got me thinking. Does your religious faith or your sense of ethics or values play a role in your choice to go car-free or car-light?
I'm not looking for a debate on religion here; I just want to know how your values will affect your lifestyle and why.
It is part of my growing religious awareness, to be sure. By riding the bike in all seasons I feel more connected with the Earth and the Goddess.
zoltani
11-02-07, 12:43 PM
Riding a bike, especially riding long distances in the middle of nowhere is a spiritual thing for me. Actually i have always felt more spiritual outdoors, but i do not consider myself a christian.
Going car free was a gradual thing that kind of happened over time. I first bought a mountain bike to ride the trails and get in shape a bit. That bike was sitting around for a long time before i realized that i could use it to go to the store, or the bar, or school, or wherever. That should have been an obvious thing, but it wasn't for my carcinogenic mind.
I finally sold my car after being car free while i was living abroad, car-lite when i returned, and when i moved to the city where owning my car was considerably cost prohibitive it seemed like the best choice for me.
StephenH
11-02-07, 10:46 PM
It doesn't seem to me that there is a strong connection between the two. If you look at different countries around the world, their use of automobiles seems to be based more on economics and geography than on religious belief or lack thereof. I think everyone's in favor of saving the planet. But nobody agrees on how it ought to be done, or who should sacrifice what to accomplish it, or how those priorities fit in with other priorities.
Sianelle
11-02-07, 11:06 PM
First, when I walk or cycle, I'm able to think, pray and enjoy the moment. In a car, that meditative atmosphere is gone.
Second, I believe in living a simple lifestyle. This is not rock bottom frugal, although I've been there. Instead, it's about determining the difference between what I need and what I want. Sometimes, what I want isn't good for me or for others around me. The choices I make will have a significant impact and if I choose to be greedy, others will feel the effects of my decision.
Third, the way I treat creation will speak volumes about my attitude to the Creator.
Yes, I don't think I could present how I feel about using a bicycle any better than this. I am a Catholic with a broad meditative streak which makes me appreciate simple things such as peace and quiet, working in my garden and riding a bicycle.
The Historian
11-03-07, 06:46 AM
I'm a Mennonite Christian. While going car-light is primarily something I enjoy, there are also some spiritual considerations.
First, when I walk or cycle, I'm able to think, pray and enjoy the moment. In a car, that meditative atmosphere is gone.
Second, I believe in living a simple lifestyle. This is not rock bottom frugal, although I've been there. Instead, it's about determining the difference between what I need and what I want. Sometimes, what I want isn't good for me or for others around me. The choices I make will have a significant impact and if I choose to be greedy, others will feel the effects of my decision.
Third, the way I treat creation will speak volumes about my attitude to the Creator.
I agree with your points, and as a Christian with an unusual background I have another reason to ride. As some readers here might know, two years ago I was 385 pounds and barely able to walk a city block. I've lost 143 pounds since then - true, 15 of them found me again, but I'm going to shake them off, and a few more, in the next few weeks. I rode a bicycle for the first time in my life December 23, 2006. I completed my first century a month ago, my first overnight tour three weeks ago, and I'm planning my first cross-country ride next year. I ride to celebrate and speed my continuing recovery from a lifetime of obesity and the problems of obesity. And if people are encouraged to make positive changes in their own life from observation of my example, I am happy to have helped.
That's why I ride my bike to church - I'm celebrating my return to life as I worship Him who made it happen. It also means I can spend a day without using the car.
I922sParkCir
11-03-07, 08:42 AM
That's why I ride my bike to church - I'm celebrating my return to life as I worship Him who made it happen. It also means I can spend a day without using the car.
That's an awesome way to think about it. I love the ride to church, it is really uplifting.
-Jai
The Historian
11-03-07, 08:55 AM
That's an awesome way to think about it. I love the ride to church, it is really uplifting.
-Jai
I'm notorious for humming "Ein' Feste Burg ist unser Gott" on my four mile ride. My Lutheran friends would be so proud of me.
spinninwheels
11-03-07, 10:24 PM
There are a lot of great responses here - no matter what you believe.
What are the common themes? You, bike and nature (the road).
As for myself, the Dalai Lama sums it up for me...
When we talk about preservation of the environment, it is related to many other things. Ultimately, the decision must come from the human heart. The key point is to have a genuine sense of universal responsibility, based on love and compassion, and clear awareness.
For me, religion is more about Practice than Belief. One part of that Practice is not harming others. Another part is enjoying the goodness of Creation. For me, the bike fits in; the car does not.
bike2math
11-04-07, 07:06 AM
God-free and Car-lite. If forced I would classify myself as a humanist and recovering catholic. There are a number of factors for which I keep car-use to a minimum:
1. Responsibility to other Beings (in a broad sense): enviromental reasons, it is just flat out, no exceptions, unfair to my fellow inhabitants of spaceship earth to use/own my car. For family reasons the car has not been eliminated, and this is the source of a deep and gnawing guilt.
2. Responsibility to other beings (in an individual sense): I hit a porcupine once with my car. I was to scared of its quills to help it, I couldn't even end its suffering. I figure every mile I don't drive is one less oppurtunity to kill something by mistake, inattentativeness, and inaction.
3. Responsibility to my country: by reducing my oil usage I hope to reduce the urgency of my country finding new sources of energy.
4. Responsibility to my city: by not driving often (especially during rush hours) I am reducing the demands on my city's budgets to provide for my personal transport.
5. Responsibility to my family: by reducing car usage I have saved my family from a significant debt. It is bad enough we have my student loans to pay.
6. Responsibility to myself: Bicycle commuting is a fundamental part of maintaining my health. I find it motivates me to eat healthier as well.
-- My being god-free had nothing to do with my bicycle usage, rather it was the result of a series of personal realizations. However since then I have noticed that (the exceptions on this board notwithstanding) many of those who are christian in my local community seem to also own quite large vehicles and to drive them quite aggresively. I have had a number of close calls on my grocery run on sunday morning as I pass two churches. My "would Jesus have passed me that close?" got an angry curse word and a peeling of tires as they took off.
jcwitte
11-04-07, 07:09 AM
I am Roman Catholic, but I went car free just because I enjoyed riding so much and I hate getting taken advantage of by car dealers, insurance agents, the government (registration renewals), gas companies, and mechanics. However, there was one time that I vividly remember feeling a true spiritual high while out riding. I was out cycling the country roads amongst the corn fields of central illinois when I stopped for a moment. I just remember being overwhelmed by the incredible silence. It was like all at once my senses were heightened and I could feel the presence of God.
“Silence is not a thing we make; it is something into which we enter. It is always there. We talk about keeping silence. We keep only that which is precious. Silence is precious, for it is of God. In silence all God's acts are done; in silence alone can His voice be heard and His word spoken.” - Mother Maribel
You just can't get silence with automobiles. Even when turned off, they scream for attention.
richardmasoner
11-05-07, 06:08 PM
For me, religion is more about Practice than Belief... For me, the bike fits in; the car does not.
I've long been aware of the impact that the American way of life has on the planet and the people who live on it, but I believe we're entering an era of dramatically increased suffering due to resource depletion.
The United States is, right now, importing substantial amounts of gasoline for the first time from other nations. Farmers and fishermen in Malaysia, Indonesia, Burma and Africa can't afford fuel to run their tractors, irrigation pumps, generators and fishing boats because Americans pay higher prices for the fuel. Our American "blessings" come at the direct expense of the poor around the world, and the expense we impose in the near future will become substantially worse. We'll see widespread famine over the next couple of years as increasing crop acreage is devoted to ethanol production. We'll probably even see real food shortages here in the United States in the near future. Resource wars also have a direct cost in violence, suffering, human lives and environmental damage.
While my carbon footprint is substantially less than that of the average American, it's still much higher than what might be a sustainable level. Nevertheless, I must do what I can to minimize my impact.
I like to believe that my actions are informed by my theology (a pacifist and conservative Christian one), though I also cast no stones at those who act with humanity regardless of their faith. I've wondered, though, at the irony of a couple of my religious Jain co-workers who drive SUVs to work every day. Alas, I'm hardly a perfect Christian as I have a few planks to pull from my eye.
My "would Jesus have passed me that close?" got an angry curse word and a peeling of tires as they took off.
It's good to challenge them. Probably pretty safe, too. :)
I rode a bicycle for the first time in my life December 23, 2006. ...
That's why I ride my bike to church - I'm celebrating my return to life as I worship Him who made it happen. It also means I can spend a day without using the car.
So it was a kind of Christmas present then!
I like to commute to church too. I commute to commune. ha.
The Historian
11-05-07, 09:35 PM
So it was a kind of Christmas present then!
I like to commute to church too. I commute to commune. ha.
Yes, the bike was a gift to myself.
Speaking of myself, how did you get a photo of me as your avatar? :-)
thebikeguy
11-05-07, 09:46 PM
**
HauntedMyst
11-06-07, 12:53 AM
I'm not car free but I am car light and my faith has affected my choice. As a Christian, I believe God did give us a plaent and we've been aweful stewards of it, including myself. I realized that one day when I road to church and pulled into the parking lot that it was a beautiful summer day an the parking lot was filled with expensive gas guzzling cars driven by people who live less than 2 miles from church like I had so many times before and it made me sad we've sickened the planet and ourselves with our dependence on cars. So I decided to endulge my love of riding more and be a part of the solution.
jonathan180iq
11-06-07, 08:02 AM
This is one of those rare posts on BF that is actually pleasant to read.
It's nice reading about how we each feel towards the passion that we share, be it a spiritual, physical, or simply personal experience.
That, and no one in here is trying to sway anyone else towards a certain belief system, established or otherwise.
Keep the peace brothers.
-Jonathan
"the righteous man regardeth the life of his beast"
zoltani
11-06-07, 10:28 AM
Things like this convince me to be car free:
http://static.px.yelp.com/photo/uK1SVCW4P1zGxMhbYrZk_A/l
I'm a Mennonite Christian.
Third, the way I treat creation will speak volumes about my attitude to the Creator.
That's so good, it could have been the whole post by itself. It really summarizes it nicely.
From my perspective: I'm a Christian who became one through the witness of Jewish believers (Messianic Jews / Hebrew Christians / pick your label). I've found the Jewish understanding of Creation to be very helpful. The passage in Genesis where Adam "was given dominion" over the creation is actually better translated from the Hebrew as something like "was required to parent".
Parenting means loving, nurturing, training, refining, guiding. Leading so as to allow the "parented" to fulfill the inherent (God-given) potential.
People confuse "dominion" with "domination". (Not to take off on a tangent, but some parents do this, too.)
Cosmoline
11-06-07, 12:03 PM
It begs the question--who is more powerful, the driver or the guy with the gasoline?
bigdufstuff
11-06-07, 12:19 PM
It begs the question--who is more powerful, the driver or the guy with the gasoline?
source (http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/begs.html)
Begs the question -
An argument that improperly assumes as true the very point the speaker is trying to argue for is said in formal logic to “beg the question.” Here is an example of a question-begging argument: “This painting is trash because it is obviously worthless.” The speaker is simply asserting the worthlessness of the work, not presenting any evidence to demonstrate that this is in fact the case. Since we never use “begs” with this odd meaning (“to improperly take for granted”) in any other phrase, many people mistakenly suppose the phrase implies something quite different: that the argument demands that a question about it be asked—raises the question. If you’re not comfortable with formal terms of logic, it’s best to stay away from this phrase, or risk embarrassing yourself.
Speaking of myself, how did you get a photo of me as your avatar? :-)
:roflmao:
I saw that in an article about obesity that mentions the importance of exercise, and a growth in cycling. I think that was the subject, anyway.
Someone in gov't is going to have to have the balls to tell the oil companies to piss off. Wow. Maybe religion does have a play in it.I'm done my sermon.:D
They don't call it a 'bully pulpit' fer nuthin!
that the argument demands that a question about it be asked—raises the question.
Too right-- although not trying to bother the poster. I just wish people would use that phrase correctly. Pundits and pols are always using it incorrectly now. It begs the question, whar did they get their larnin from??
Someone said that cycling is common sense! Well you know, that's God's gift to everyone. :) Now if only we would use it properly.
Wonderful thread idea, Newpaperguy, and a very worthwhile read.
For me, being car-free is about ethics and values, and to a lesser extent about faith.
Ethics - I believe it is wrong to harm others, directly or indirectly, particularly when that harm is easily preventable. Car use causes direct harm (pollution from use and manufacture of car and roads) and indirect harm (from lack of exercise to using resources and funds needed for other things).
Values - I value human life, and quality of life. I believe I have a responsibility to see to basic maintenance of my own body, and the exercise from cycling is part of that. I value essential city services such as welfare, medical clinics, schools, arts and festivals funding, and public transit - and I want to have my tax dollars go to those things, not more roads.
Faith - well, as a neo-pagan atheist 'faith' isn't an accurate term, but I do believe we have a responsibility to respect nature and our relationship to it; therefore I must be careful how my life affects nature around me.
slagjumper
11-21-07, 07:05 AM
I ride a bike because I love that feeling. I wish that there was more written in any religious text justifying bike use over car use. Of course cars and oil are a modern thing and most religious texts are at least 100 years old. My bike use have given me a lot of time to think and pray on these issues.
I really don’t see a whole lot of justification in the bible for not depleting God’s earth. My impression is that according to the bible, God will replenish everything we need and that we should not worry about the basics.
Rather we should concentrate on loving our neighbor and turning the other cheek and praying so that we can listen to what God wants us to do. Cars do damage the earth, but so did a giant comet or something and things are good for us because of that nastiness. God did put the green matter here that turned into oil.
I think that it is telling that God gave oil less land, (more or less), to the US and Israel, while giving an abundance of oil to godless Russia and Muslim controlled Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq. It is as if she is saying, "Here overcome all of this inequality, religious bickering, warfare, fear, and extreme wealth and unjustifiable poverty and get along. She knows that we can do it, but is not going to do it for us.
Seems to me that the people will have to somehow stand up to the powerful and learn to live together. Why should I use God's word to justify my desire? I’d be no more different than the others who use God's words through the perversion of religious texts and the injection of fear to control land, and people. Though I would like to justify and persuade using God's word.
Of course these thoughts presume the existence of God. I have faith that God exists but no proof.
So I make this all fit by trying to influence others and my government to do things that reduce car use. I try, (often unsuccessfully), to help the angry motorists of the world see that dependence on cars is a weakness. I see their impatience with other road users is a problem. I try to dispel the myths that cars will make you more powerful or more sexually successful, or that without a car you are a piece of dirt. I try to see the entrenched car use laws, car-centric tax structures, and spending as an oppressive act by entities that are mostly concerned with money, not love. So when angry motorists honk and swear, I try to simply say, "Someday you'll understand". And leave it at that. I find that it helps to see them as being co-opted by the world that tells them you have to take on so much that you must use a car. And to the extent that they need a car to live comfortably I see that as oppression. I find that cyclists are not given a fair deal when it comes to road building and overpowered car design as another form of oppression. People are not told to choose car vs bike or walking, they are compelled to cars. It is like the government is saying here is thousands of dollars if you drive a car and participate in the oil dependant economy, but you get less than nothing if you ride a bike. Lastly I realize that I am not converting any one to biking by calling them names, but by seeing them more as victims, I might be able to respectfully help them see the light.
Thanks to those who have read this rambling rant.
jonathan180iq
11-21-07, 08:06 AM
How is Saudi Arabia "godless"? Does the rest of your post imply that the US is "godful"?
The Historian
11-21-07, 08:17 AM
How is Saudi Arabia "godless"? Does the rest of your post imply that the US is "godful"?
I'd suggest he's using the term "godless" to mean "not Christian", except it doesn't appear he's Christian himself.
How is Saudi Arabia "godless"? Does the rest of your post imply that the US is "godful"?
Actually slagjumper referred to "godless Russia and Muslim controlled Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq." That's still a very inaccurate statement. Russia is a very religious country, far from "godless," even after decades of religious persecution under the Soviet system.
Another glaring inaccuracy in slagjumpers post is that God gave less oil to the USA than to the Muslim countries and Russia. Actually, the USA did have as much oil as them, it's just that we've already used up most of it. Whether God "gave" the oil to us or not is open to interpretation. Maybe Satan did it?
The Historian
11-21-07, 08:56 AM
How is Saudi Arabia "godless"? Does the rest of your post imply that the US is "godful"?
Actually slagjumper referred to "godless Russia and Muslim controlled Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq." That's still a very inaccurate statement. Russia is a very religious country, far from "godless," even after decades of religious persecution under the Soviet system.
Another glaring inaccuracy in slagjumpers post is that God gave less oil to the USA than to the Muslim countries and Russia. Actually, the USA did have as much oil as them, it's just that we've already used up most of it. Whether God "gave" the oil to us or not is open to interpretation. Maybe Satan did it?
Christian fundamentalists often use the term "godless" to refer to Christians who don't misread the Bible as they do. I've seen this up close - a fundie I knew complained that during a trip to "godless Ireland" he couldn't find a Christian church. I've even been the victim of it recently. Perhaps slagjumper is a recovering fundie and hasn't rid himself of all vestiges of twisted thinking.
Religion? No.
It's just a question of how I want to live my life.
Ethics? Yes.
The car-heavy mall culture we have developed in this country is not a good thing IMO.
Any choice made that gets away from further supporting said culture is a good thing IMO.
slagjumper
11-21-07, 10:02 AM
Actually slagjumper referred to "godless Russia and Muslim controlled Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq." That's still a very inaccurate statement. Russia is a very religious country, far from "godless," even after decades of religious persecution under the Soviet system.
Another glaring inaccuracy in slagjumpers post is that God gave less oil to the USA than to the Muslim countries and Russia. Actually, the USA did have as much oil as them, it's just that we've already used up most of it. Whether God "gave" the oil to us or not is open to interpretation. Maybe Satan did it?
Yes, I agree. I actually was directing that statement at the Fundies in the sense that they think that God favors the US. She will help us win any war and uses her strength to assure our continued economic prosperity . There is obviously no favortism. I agree with the statement that Russia is not godless and apologize to those offended by my repeating of the fundie perspective for rhetorical purposes.
About the oil quantity. I dont think that your claim is true. Can you site a source?
slagjumper
11-21-07, 10:05 AM
How is Saudi Arabia "godless"? Does the rest of your post imply that the US is "godful"? No they are Muslim controlled country that has obvously been granted some of God's gifts of abundance of oil. I do not know if this gift is a blessing or a curse. Just something for waring fundies to ponder.
I put people first, then the enviroment. For example I would not advocate killing people to have cleaner air or more gas.
slagjumper
11-21-07, 10:13 AM
There is some biblical justification for stewardship of nature. And care of others. I am trying to avoid picking out things to justify my position. The Russian state is not founded on principals of Christianity, (or Deism like the US), so it really isn’t that much of a stretch to call the Russian state godless.
I think that people have beliefs, secular and profane, and states play on those for their own purposes. No country can believe in God or be Atheist under this definition.
No they are Muslim controlled country that has obvously been granted some of God's gifts of abundance of oil. Just something for waring fundies to ponder.
I put people first, then the enviroment. For example I would not advocate killing people to have cleaner air or more gas.
IMO, people are a part of the environment. People are so entwined with the biosystem, which is so entwined with the geosystem, that it doesn't even make sense to talk about people OR the environment. It's only people AND the environment.
Anyway, a lot of people die every day because of dirty air. So do other plants and animals.
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