Vehicular Cycling (VC) - Bike Maps and VC

You take the Wheelman seriously? Good Lord; he is nuttier than a fruit cake!
Unless he can explain his PDF phobia, I think I'm going to have to agree with you.

I'm sorry, but is there something potentially undesirable that might happen as a result of opening a PDF file that I'm not aware of? I know WORD (.doc) and other Microsoft brain dead formats have idiotic features, like the ability to embed instructions inside a document that is intended for viewing, that can be easily exploited by the nefarious, but I'm unaware of Adobe's PDF format being so afflicted.

Why would anyone not just download a free Adobe Acrobat viewer? They have them for just about any platform.

Nothing nefarious that I know of. Just the fact that the Bill Gateses of the world apparently threw up some _new_ hoops, _after_ I had figured out the procedure of which you speak (or something similar to it) and opened all of the pdfs that I wanted to open, for a few months in 2003 or thereabouts. In more recent years and as a result of whatever these new Bill Gates antics are, my computer has gone haywire _every_ _time_ I've tried to open any pdf, excel or similarly-elitist-format document. And trust me; I left _no_ stone unturned in trying, unsuccessfully, to open one particularly-important excel document a few months ago.

E-mail is already the _real_ snail as it is. For example, I can walk out to my common-man's-mail box in often less time than what it takes to wait for a single page-turn to occur in e-mail, and that alone is arguably reason enough to quit the internet. Therefore, I think I'm compromising pretty good by staying on the internet at all. My dad, a retired nuclear physicist who still splits wood too, can't _even_ stay on the internet without frequent help from the nose-ring-generation faction of the family members. And on BTI not too long ago, we saw how John Forester, similarly to me, has better things to do than to figure out how to download the nose ring generation's latest video formats without giving them all night to download while he sleeps. In short, if the Bill Gateses of the world think that I'm going to putter around figuring out, for a second time in only 4 years, how to use the same (i.e., _figured_ out by me only 4 years ago!) optional bells and whistles thereof, they _really_ need to get a clue.

But thanks for the tip that you gave me a while back about how to maneuver through Topica archives. _That_ still works, the last I checked.

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You take the Wheelman seriously? Good Lord; he is nuttier than a fruit cake!

That's more people than take you seriously.

what a pathetic hijack.

SMART vehicular cyclists will take advantage of any bicyclist specific map they can lay their hands on to ascertain traffic volumes and chart a pleasant route. Notice I said, "the smart ones", wheelman.

Nothing nefarious that I know of. Just the fact that the Bill Gateses of the world apparently threw up some _new_ hoops, _after_ I had figured out the procedure of which you speak (or something similar to it) and opened all of the pdfs that I wanted to open, for a few months in 2003 or thereabouts. In more recent years and as a result of whatever these new Bill Gates antics are, my computer has gone haywire _every_ _time_ I've tried to open any pdf, excel or similarly-elitist-format document. And trust me; I left _no_ stone unturned in trying, unsuccessfully, to open one particularly-important excel document a few months ago.

E-mail is already the _real_ snail as it is. For example, I can walk out to my common-man's-mail box in often less time than what it takes to wait for a single page-turn to occur in e-mail, and that alone is arguably reason enough to quit the internet. Therefore, I think I'm compromising pretty good by staying on the internet at all. My dad, a retired nuclear physicist who still splits wood too, can't _even_ stay on the internet without frequent help from the nose-ring-generation faction of the family members. And on BTI not too long ago, we saw how John Forester, similarly to me, has better things to do than to figure out how to download the nose ring generation's latest video formats without giving them all night to download while he sleeps. In short, if the Bill Gateses of the world think that I'm going to putter around figuring out, for a second time in only 4 years, how to use the same (i.e., _figured_ out by me only 4 years ago!) optional bells and whistles thereof, they _really_ need to get a clue.

But thanks for the tip that you gave me a while back about how to maneuver through Topica archives. _That_ still works, the last I checked.

dahdaditditdit ditditditdadah dahditdit dit dahdidah didah didididadah dahdidadit dahdadidit dahdit
Ah. Sounds like you have something strange going on in your own computer. Somehow PDFs got associated with the wrong applications, perhaps. Or maybe a bad experience with Excel files has caused you to suspect documents of all types? Are you certain that opening a PDF file caused you problems?

If I were you, I would go to adobe.com (http://www.adobe.com), click on "Get ADOBE Reader" under "Solutions and products", and follow the prompts. After that installs successfully, you should be able to open PDF files with no problem.

At any rate, computers can sure be frustrating and huge time sinks. But if you get a high speed link (cable or DSL) and an Apple Macintosh you should be able to do all your stuff pretty reliably, though getting someone from the nose ring generation might be helpful with the initial setup.

Pete Fagerlin wrote:
"Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Opening .pdfs is more dangerous than eating eating thousands of BK Bacon Double Cheeseburgers. That makes perfect sense.

"How exactly are my '.pdf opening skills' killing me?"

TF: The sheer time that you obviously must spend keeping those skills dancing around per puppet strings controlled by the antics of the Bill Gateses of the world, has cut into your cycling time. The arithmetic is very simple: Spend less time cycling (than you would if you weren't diverting your energies to keeping your pdf-opening skills up to date), and the gap between your fatal dose of pdf, vs. BK-Bacon-Double-Cheeseburger-wrapper, openings, narrows.


"Since you mentioned real cyclists, how does one become a real cyclist?"

TF: By operating in accordance with the principles set forth at http://www.JohnForester.com or http://www.newmilfordbike.com/Triad.htm


"I knew it! Colonel Sanders' agents have gotten to you! It's impossible to escape the long reach of the Pentaverate."

TF: Or the Triad, however much you may dislike the Triad.


"Wait just a darn minute.

".pdfs are made out of granola, yet they are more harmful than BK Double Bacon Cheeseburgers? And they have their own faction?"

TF: Pdfs _aren't_ made out of granola! My point, rather, was that the faction of the cycling community that knows how to open them, tends, in my opinion, to also be the faction that's more likely to eat granola than BK Bacon Double Cheeseburgers.

Not to impugn granola. I eat that too, when your faction of the cycling community isn't looking.


"Next you're going to tell me that they also have their own air force."

TF: I don't think so. Rather, I think that the figurative military position of your faction of the cycling community is more like:
"We ain't got no parts to overhaul our tanks,
I've lost some of my generals and soldiers of high rank,
All my navy boats in Lake Victoria have run aground,
And I ain't got time to mess around!"
- Idi Amin, groveling to Breshnev and Gaddaffi for aid in the umpteenth verse of a song, cooked up by me in the 1970s, that goes to the tune of "Bad Bad Leroy Brown".

what a pathetic hijack.

SMART vehicular cyclists will take advantage of any bicyclist specific map they can lay their hands on to ascertain traffic volumes and chart a pleasant route. Notice I said, "the smart ones", wheelman.

1. "Any" that I can lay my hands on, is a poor criteria. Typical bike-specific maps/info are of such poor accuracy that they're often worse than nothing, in my experience.

2. The colors/boldnesses of the lines on ordinary convenience-store highway maps, are adequate ball-park - which is all that a VC needs - info about the relative traffic volumes. The higher-traffic-volume roads got that way for a reason, namely, they're the most efficient routes for any traveler. When the various other factors (such as whether a road follows a river or not - a likely-efficiency consideration whether one's vehicle has 2 wheels or 18) are equal, then the higher the traffic volume, the better the route is for transportational cycling.

3. Cyclists must maintain a presence, not just on a bike-specific-mapmaker's favorite roads, but on _all_ roads. When an individual cyclist increases his pleasure by participating in the bike-specific-mapmaker's proposed leaving of potential cyclists living/working on/near the ignored roads, out in the cold, it's more like "selfish" than "smart".

In short, Bekologist needs to study more.

1. "Any" that I can lay my hands on, is a poor criteria. Typical bike-specific maps/info are of such poor accuracy that they're often worse than nothing, in my experience.

2. The colors/boldnesses of the lines on ordinary convenience-store highway maps, are adequate ball-park - which is all that a VC needs - info about the relative traffic volumes. The higher-traffic-volume roads got that way for a reason, namely, they're the most efficient routes for any traveler. When the various other factors (such as whether a road follows a river or not - a likely-efficiency consideration whether one's vehicle has 2 wheels or 18) are equal, then the higher the traffic volume, the better the route is for transportational cycling.

3. Cyclists must maintain a presence, not just on a bike-specific-mapmaker's favorite roads, but on _all_ roads. When an individual cyclist increases his pleasure by participating in the bike-specific-mapmaker's proposed leaving of potential cyclists living/working on/near the ignored roads, out in the cold, it's more like "selfish" than "smart".

In short, Bekologist needs to study more.
Plan a cycling trip from southern New Mexico (I-10) to the south rim of the Grand Canyon with a stop in Phoenix. Which map will save you some trouble? - This one: http://www.azbikeped.org/images/map%20side%201%20(3-03-06).pdf
or a road map from AAA or the like.

Good luck. I think Bek would find this journey much more enjoyable and avoid some headaches if he used this bike specific map.

Al

ANY smart cyclist would.

Plan a cycling trip from southern New Mexico (I-10) to the south rim of the Grand Canyon with a stop in Phoenix. Which map will save you some trouble? - This one: http://www.azbikeped.org/images/map%20side%201%20(3-03-06).pdf
or a road map from AAA or the like.

Good luck. I think Bek would find this journey much more enjoyable and avoid some headaches if he used this bike specific map.

Al

Great map! Now that's what I'm talking about.:)

Real cyclists have cycled in enough directions from their driveway, enough times, including back before bike-specific maps existed, to have their own compilation of route info for most of their trips, and are therefore less likely than Bekologist is to want to consult a bike-specific map. I'm no idiot; I do know that Bekologist is correct that having competently-compiled (although "competently-compiled" is the key phrase) bike-specific info can help even a VC sometimes; just search the archives and I suspect that you'll find that I haven't said that only cyclist-inferiority cyclists do so. Rather, obtaining specialized bike info beforehand takes away from the adventure, and a major part of why I cycle is for adventure. The directions that I enjoy cycling in the most are the ones about which I've _earned_ my knowledge, from a bike seat. If I'd had to sit on my duff in front of a computer opening pdfs to plan my first big tour, I likely would have canned it and just kept on being a full-time motorist.

In short, the polarizers have done it again: The only specialized-bike-map obtainers that I'm calling dumb (besides the truly-dumb ones, i.e. the ones that obtain them for soothing their feeling of being inferior to motorists), are the ones, such as Bekologist, that have called _non_-obtainers thereof, dumb.

Is this the wackiest thread ever? Sheesh, you can open a dang PDF file in a plain text editor if you are desperate enough to read the words therein. It ain't pretty, but the words are in there. You can do the same with Word and Excel too.

Get a life guys. Go ride your bikes, if you can do that without getting yourself killed consulting pdfs with your iPhones while you do so.

Is this the wackiest thread ever?


I need a map to get through this thread! :rolleyes:

Real cyclists have cycled in enough directions from their driveway, enough times, including back before bike-specific maps existed, to have their own compilation of route info for most of their trips, and are therefore less likely than Bekologist is to want to consult a bike-specific map. I'm no idiot; I do know that Bekologist is correct that having competently-compiled (although "competently-compiled" is the key phrase) bike-specific info can help even a VC sometimes; just search the archives and I suspect that you'll find that I haven't said that only cyclist-inferiority cyclists do so. Rather, obtaining specialized bike info beforehand takes away from the adventure, and a major part of why I cycle is for adventure.

I doubt you would consider me a "real cyclist" but as I pointed out in a previous post- the first time I biked across the US I used what you call "convenience store maps" (it was long before bike specific maps were available). While the route provided plenty of adventure I was dissatisfied with many of the roads I cycled on for most of the trip. The next time I went, there were still few bike specific maps available, I used far more detailed maps and created my own bike specific maps by doing lots of research before the trip.

I appreciate the work done by others on bike specific maps available today and now use them both in hard copy and on-line to help plan a route- I'm not wedded to their route suggestions but I definitely take them into consideration. The Rubel Bike maps I use here in Massachusetts point out things like bike shops, campgrounds, steep hills, bike friendly inns and ice cream shops. The routes are created through years of input by local cyclists- they're useful.

I point out the route selection process because it provides us with a point of dialogue we can all perhaps share. Then if we don't all lock down into the mindset of "Every lane is a bike lane", "We have all the bike paths we need they're called roads." "I feel safe wherever I ride." but instead consider that there are aspects of some roads that make them less desirable than others for bike riding we might be able to have some realistic dialogue.

If we can then target the most common complaints for all of us- regardless of our associations with VC- we might find something worth advocating for instead the endless non-stop bickering that makes most of these posts and threads resemble ones made 3 years ago or more.

Wheelman- are you on dial-up? Maybe that's why it's shorter to walk to the mail box than wait for the next page on an e-mail.

Is this the wackiest thread ever? Sheesh, you can open a dang PDF file in a plain text editor if you are desperate enough to read the words therein.

Do my eyes deceive me? It appears that a member of the profession that always seems to be the one most over-represented in these elitist-mail forums - "web designer" - has admitted that "plain text" is the best format. Well _I_ _am_ a "plain text editor"! Me and my fellow enquiring minds from outside your profession (and to whom, as recently as 2002 in my case, a "mouse" was one of those furry things that you stomp on when you see it in your barn) would like to know why the context in which you use the expression is Greek to us.

It ain't pretty, but the words are in there. You can do the same with Word and Excel too.

TF: I bet you don't know how to _send_ a _Chiwrite_ document to an enemy yahoo group that already has you censored. I do; your "it ain't pretty but the words are in there" is what reminded me of this. BTW, as a _real_ "plain text editor", I can tell you that ain't ain't in the dictionary.

Get a life guys. Go ride your bikes, if you can do that without getting yourself killed consulting pdfs with your iPhones while you do so.

TF: I don't know what an iPhone is, and real cyclists drown their TracFones. Therefore, I don't think you have to worry about me killing myself opening pdfs. Come to think of it, I'm not even the one who _brought_ _up_ the issue of such elitist formats in this thread!

Dewd !

Underscores rule !!!
:beer: :beer:

I doubt you would consider me a "real cyclist" but as I pointed out in a previous post- the first time I biked across the US I used what you call "convenience store maps" (it was long before bike specific maps were available). While the route provided plenty of adventure I was dissatisfied with many of the roads I cycled on for most of the trip. The next time I went, there were still few bike specific maps available, I used far more detailed maps and created my own bike specific maps by doing lots of research before the trip.

I appreciate the work done by others on bike specific maps available today and now use them both in hard copy and on-line to help plan a route- I'm not wedded to their route suggestions but I definitely take them into consideration. The Rubel Bike maps I use here in Massachusetts point out things like bike shops, campgrounds, steep hills, bike friendly inns and ice cream shops. The routes are created through years of input by local cyclists- they're useful.

I point out the route selection process because it provides us with a point of dialogue we can all perhaps share. Then if we don't all lock down into the mindset of "Every lane is a bike lane", "We have all the bike paths we need they're called roads." "I feel safe wherever I ride." but instead consider that there are aspects of some roads that make them less desirable than others for bike riding we might be able to have some realistic dialogue.

If we can then target the most common complaints for all of us- regardless of our associations with VC- we might find something worth advocating for instead the endless non-stop bickering that makes most of these posts and threads resemble ones made 3 years ago or more.

What I've been trying to advocate here (at least in between Bill-Gates-puppet, pdf-advocating hecklers) is _very_ similar to what you're trying to advocate. You started consulting bike-specific info at the same time that I might start considering doing so, namely, _after_ you had already cycled through the areas _without_ having any such bike-specific info. That way, you didn't have the info at a time when it would have compromised the adventure aspect of cycling through an area for the first time.

And this reminds me of what I _was_ doing a few days ago, before my discovering of this polarizing thread put a stop to it: I was actually _consulting_ a little bit of bike-specific info in my mouse-potatoing, to consider using on a multi-day ride that I'm considering taking a few weeks from now. Per my admittedly-self-imposed criteria of when a "real" cyclist may stoop to that, this ride will be through areas that I've already cycled through multiple times _without_ using any such bike-specific info, relieving me of any feeling of any need to "prove anything" by doing without such entertainment this time.

Relying solely on convenience-store maps the _first_ _few_ _times_ (or, next best, _the_ first time) that one cycles through an area, is what's important for those of us who like adventure. Then, when we've cycled through a given corner of our state or whatever enough times to begin to get bored with the several most direct vehicular routes, obtaining a snippet or two of bike-specific info introduces a whole 'nuther _kind_ of adventure.

The only significant remaining critique that I have of your post above, is that you should look at yourself in the mirror as you're saying "bike friendly inns and ice cream shops". Some of the most "bike friendly inns" that _I've_ experienced have consisted of _thickets_ beside riverbanks below McDonald's', and I'll take the high octane of a BK Bacon Double Cheeseburger over anything from an "ice cream shop" almost any day. The people, too, in BK, tend to be less snotty than in "ice cream shops" (although part of my bias on that one might be just the fact that I've never found anything "social" about the League of American Bicyclepersons' "ice cream socials" at its Thule-cartop-rack-crowd-infested rallies that I used to occasionally bother to attend). In short, "Every lane is a bike lane, and anybody who doesn't agree isn't a real cyclist" is arguably more respectful of the cycling community's diversity, than "anybody who doesn't have a pocketful of money for inns, or doesn't care for emphasis of where the ice cream shops are, isn't a real cyclist".


Wheelman- are you on dial-up? Maybe that's why it's shorter to walk to the mail box than wait for the next page on an e-mail.

Are you on pedal power? Maybe that's why it's a shorter trip to your destinations when you use your other vehicles, the ones that the bigoted sign on that on-ramp that you just passed is telling you to use - and oh, BTW, since you're obeying it and have bought Panatomic-X for your computer, we're going to put up more of those signs, including eventually on this road too as soon as we can sell Panatomic-Z to our advertizers.

:eek: :roflmao:

What I've been trying to advocate here (at least in between Bill-Gates-puppet, pdf-advocating hecklers) is _very_ similar to what you're trying to advocate... this polarizing thread

Interesting_ that_ you_come_ to this conclusion. It wasn't my _intention_ to_ polarize. Sorry you see it that way.:(

The only significant remaining critique that I have of your post above, is that you should look at yourself in the mirror as you're saying "bike friendly inns and ice cream shops". Some of the most "bike friendly inns" that _I've_ experienced have consisted of _thickets_ beside riverbanks below McDonald's', and I'll take the high octane of a BK Bacon Double Cheeseburger over anything from an "ice cream shop" almost any day. The people, too, in BK, tend to be less snotty than in "ice cream shops" (although part of my bias on that one might be just the fact that I've never found anything "social" about the League of American Bicyclepersons' "ice cream socials" at its Thule-cartop-rack-crowd-infested rallies that I used to occasionally bother to attend). In short, "Every lane is a bike lane, and anybody who doesn't agree isn't a real cyclist" is arguably more respectful of the cycling community's diversity, than "anybody who doesn't have a pocketful of money for inns, or doesn't care for emphasis of where the ice cream shops are, isn't a real cyclist".

I have just_looked_ at_ myself_in_the_mirror and said, "bike friendly inns and ice cream shops" and got a great laugh- thanks_for_the_suggestion!:)


Just because I mentioned them doesn't mean I stay at them or eat at them. I was simply pointing them out because it's on the maps . Some cyclists like those things. I tend to be a campground or just a spot in the woods kind of cyclist. And I'm not a big ice cream fan. But I don't see those who do indulge in such pursuits as the end of all that is sacred and holy. I think there are far worse evils in the world. And FYI the "Inns" rate's range from about $45 per night to a $100/night roughly the same as a "Day's Inn" and instead of the money going into the Bill Gates_corporate_pockets it goes into the local economy. And the ice cream shops are homemade ice cream shops often made with products from local dairies.

I understand your reticence to be a part of the Thule-cartop-rack-crowd there's something oddly discomforting about bicycling for many of us when it starts to appeal to the same privileged crowd that might have found fox hunting and polo exciting 50 years ago. But since the theme you've set in your post is to move away from polarization why should we castigate the privileged classes for enjoying the same pursuits as those of us they might consider the great unwashed?

I would no more sit in judgement on their choices as I would on yours to eat beef from an international chain like Burger King or MacDonald's that promotes poor agricultural practices, destroys local economies and thrives on serving food of poor nutritional value. I LOVE their french fries and their "milk" shakes and occasionally indulge in the gastrointestinal bombs they pass off as burgers. I may not eat there everyday but I'd be a liar if I didn't confess to the occasional sin of hypocrisy.

In addition to information on the maps like: where to take a course in Effective Cycling (something I might not be inclined to do but it doesn't bother me to see it on the map), tips like, "bikes should use the entire lane if the road is too narrow to share safely with cars" are details that I don't see on "convenience store maps". It'd be awfully nice if AAA road maps offered suggestions to drivers to "give a bicyclist a brake" or something.

:rolleyes:_What_A_Luntic_!_:rolleyes:

And the ice cream shops are homemade ice cream shops often made with products from local dairies.

But still ruined by pasteurization, just like at the Bill Gates/Ray Kroc outfits. Do any of these maps show where a stranger can dip his cup into the good-old bulk tank in exchange for a little manure-shoveling? Then you might have a sale.

... Do any of these maps show where a stranger can dip his cup into the good-old bulk tank in exchange for a little manure-shoveling? Then you might have a sale.

my experience has been that those types of barter exchanges are best done personally and not in print publications for public dissemination.:)

I mean, you don't want to take all the adventure away from your bike trips. ;)

I had no idea opening pdf documents was a political statement. You learn something new every day.

I think we need some dried frog pills for Junior over here.

But still ruined by pasteurization, just like at the Bill Gates/Ray Kroc outfits.
_And_the_water_is_ probably_fluoridated_by_the_Commies_too!_ :rolleyes:
_What_a_Lunatic_!

Hey Wheelman that buzzing sound you hear as you're opening PDFs in your mailbox is the transistor the CIA put in your filling. Better put another layer of tinfoil in your hat. While you're at it, take another Clozapine.

I'd take a map that shows ice cream shops rather than gas stations any day.

First: a couple of hard-core VC mantras that I find, at the very least, confusing-

a) Every lane is a bike lane.

b) We have all the bike paths we need- they're called roads.

IF the above are true then all cyclists would have no need for special bike maps in order to plan their routes be it recreational, transportational, commuting or otherwise because ANY up to date road map would have the route information they needed and VC techniques like steely eyed glances and lane positioning would ensure a cyclist's safety on ANY road.
I respect your experience, Buzzman. I can't argue with your viewpoint.

But I honestly don't see "every lane is a bike lane" as a hardcore VC mantra. It's a way of life, for me.

And I didn't have any special maps to learn my routes. Standard, outdated road maps.

But everyone has to follow what suits them, my experience does not necessarily mean everyone should follow what I do.

:)

I respect your experience, Buzzman...

[Snip]
But everyone has to follow what suits them, my experience does not necessarily mean everyone should follow what I do.

:)

Whattta Concept!!

'Tis a shame that the Internet proselytizers of VC education/training and/or Forester acolytes never grasped it.

Whattta Concept!!

'Tis a shame that the Internet proselytizers of VC education/training and/or Forester acolytes never grasped it.

in other words:

live and let live.

ride and let ride.

:D

in other words:

live and let live.

ride and let ride.

:D

Words to Ride by!

I'm starting to think he's not kidding.:eek:

I'm starting to think he's not kidding.:eek:

He's not. See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chainguardannex/ where the fellow posts his thoughts under his own name and a pseudonym "bumpkinbubba".

At least he's finally found the 'reply with quote' button. I can't begin to imagine the intensive training he had to undergo to attain that skill, but it's a start. A couple more years and opening pdf's might be in his sights. There's hope for the old dog yet.

live and let live.

ride and let ride.

:D
...and let's help each other.

:beer:

At least he's finally found the 'reply with quote' button. I can't begin to imagine the intensive training he had to undergo to attain that skill, but it's a start. A couple more years and opening pdf's might be in his sights. There's hope for the old dog yet.

There's _less_ hope for _you_ than I thought, if you think that your pdf-opening capabilities will still be current with the hook, line and sinker of the Bill Gateses of the world a couple of years or so from now. I don't, and that's why I stay current with the real world by not biting.

He's not. See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chainguardannex/ where the fellow posts his thoughts under his own name and a pseudonym "bumpkinbubba".

Some people cry to moderators when the identities of their pseudonyms are exposed by an opponent; others, like me, do the opposite and thank the opponent: Thanks for the advertising! I see the membership of chainguardannex has grown since the last time I checked!

Hey Wheelman that buzzing sound you hear as you're opening PDFs in your mailbox is the transistor the CIA put in your filling.

You're in the wrong century, judging by your apparent ignorance of my willingness to actually make some yank holes if you offer to install vacuum tubes http://www.et3.com in them.

I'd take a map that shows ice cream shops rather than gas stations any day.

Irrelevent, since I don't recall very many, if any, of the convenience-store maps that I use showing gas stations.

this thread is like a bad train wreck.

sorry, wheelman, but general road maps are not as useful to bicyclists as a map that is bicycling oriented. A smart vehicular cyclist would be well advised to take a look at maps that are geared towards bicycling.

and posturing that the thickness of the lines can be extrapolated into traffic volume information on a general road map? :roflmao: never been on busy, crowded, two lane county roads, eh?

I'm trying to get my Underwood to surf the net. can you spare a few vacuum tubes?

There are many roads that even drivers of cars would like to avoid, and even fearless drivers of cars will avoid certain roads under certain circumstances. For example, yesterday laden with lumber I opted not to take the freeway and instead to take the quieter surface streets. I don't need a bunch of jackasses tailgaiting and getting all upset expecting a 4-cylinder POS truck burdened with lumber to act like race cars.

Is this fear? Is this anti-VC? Why is it any different if I select similar routes when I'm riding a similarly under-powered, more vulnerable bicycle? More vulnerable due to load. More vulnerable due to lack of mass.

It's _not_ any different!

The only real difference is political.

And the difference, in this thread, between any given typical poster's _intelligent_ posts (such as the one above, from page 1 of the thread) and the _dumb_ posts by said given typical poster, is that the former were made before, and the latter were made after, said given typical poster started displaying ignorance of the existence of the vast segment of the cycling population that didn't choose "web designer" as a profession.

and posturing that the thickness of the lines can be extrapolated into traffic volume information on a general road map? :roflmao: never been on busy, crowded, two lane county roads, eh?

You wouldn't make it on the ones in _my_ county.

ya think? :roflmao: dude, get over yourself.

"Quick, Henry, the FLIT!"

I've read enough words from one of the above posters now to recognize a true diagnosable condition is present. The key symptoms include paranoia and word-salad. It would be cruel to continue to taunt that individual.

I've read enough words from one of the above posters now to recognize a true diagnosable condition is present. The key symptoms include paranoia and word-salad. It would be cruel to continue to taunt that individual.

Sorry I didn't put "wrong century" and "yank hole" in Wikipedia where your "word salad" is; I guess I was overestimating your intelligence. Tip: _Real_ debaters use language that requires a level of intelligence above the yuppie level to interpret.

Does this help you understand? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia

Just because you can't comprehend it, Diane, doesn't make it word salad.

Not that I agree with everything Tom writes, but if I reread his stuff a few times, and do a little research, I can usually find the sense in his words.

There are many other posters here who provide much better examples of cognitive slippage.

There's _less_ hope for _you_ than I thought, if you think that your pdf-opening capabilities will still be current with the hook, line and sinker of the Bill Gateses of the world a couple of years or so from now.

I think I'll manage to muddle through, but thanks for your concern. You'd probably be surprised how easy it is to read and follow simple instructions.

I don't, and that's why I stay current with the real world by not biting.

LOL. You keep telling yourself that, Junior.

So keeping up these ".pdf opening skills" has cut into my cycling time.

You sound like you are very familiar with the amount of time that it takes to keep those ".pdf opening skills" up. How much time does that actually take?

How much energy is required to keep one's .pdf-opening skills up to date?

I mean, my grade school age kid can open .pdfs in fractions of a second. How much energy is he wasting on keeping that skill up to date?

didididit di didahdah didit didahdidit didahdidit dahdit dit didididah dit didahdit dahdidah dahdit dahdahdah didahdah didahdah didididit dit dahdit didididit didit dididit dahdidit didah dahdidit dahdidit dahdidahdah didit dididit dahdididit dit didit dahdit dahdahdit didididit dit didahdit dit dahdididit dahdidahdah dahdidahdit didah didahdidit didahdidit dit dahdidit dah didididit dit dahdididit didit dahdahdit dahdahdit dit dididit dah dididit didit dahdah didahdahdit didahdidit dit dah dahdahdah dahdit didit dahdit dah didididit didit dididit dah didididit didahdit dit didah dahdidit didahdidahdidah

I knew it!

You are an agent of the Pentaverate!

All of their agents are trained to reply in Morse code (after much delay) when confronted with questions that they are unable to answer.

That actually translates into the Colonel's secret recipe. It's normally stored in the latest PDF format to keep it secure from ne'erdowells, but clearly they understimated the granola eating set's resourcefulness.

If you stare at the morse code and let your eyes go unfocused you can see the Colonel's wee beady eyes staring back at you.

Scary, isn't it? I'm getting that fortnightly craving.

I hear the Pentaverate is going to be the subject for the next Dan Brown novel.

didididit di didahdah didit didahdidit didahdidit dahdit dit didididah dit didahdit dahdidah dahdit dahdahdah didahdah didahdah didididit dit dahdit didididit didit dididit dahdidit didah dahdidit dahdidit dahdidahdah didit dididit dahdididit dit didit dahdit dahdahdit didididit dit didahdit dit dahdididit dahdidahdah dahdidahdit didah didahdidit didahdidit dit dahdidit dah didididit dit dahdididit didit dahdahdit dahdahdit dit dididit dah dididit didit dahdah didahdahdit didahdidit dit dah dahdahdah dahdit didit dahdit dah didididit didit dididit dah didididit didahdit dit didah dahdidit didahdidahdidah


for a good time turn on your "speak the text" preference and have it speak the above. It's worth the price of a hi-jacked thread.:D

The following snippet from page 2 of this thread (by a Triad-dissing simpleton who had already displayed, on another thread, his bigoted 'tude that his favorite elitist communication mode is better than mine), is where the hijacking of this thread began:

I probably could apply to the Pentaverate for dispensation to send you a summary in the form of a .pdf.

If they grant me approval (I have some connections with senior advisers to the Pentaverate) would you like me to send you the .pdf?

Pete Fagerlin wrote:
"You need to get back on your meds there sparky."

TF: One need not have ridden a _whole_ century into the past, as I have, to know that the name that you're looking for, without success, is "Sparks", and that I didn't have that honor during WWII but my dad did.


".pdfs are not elitist."

TF: My meatspace friends, few of whom have ever even heard of pdfs, would disagree.


"They are readable by 99.99999%"

TF: Citation please.


"of computer users,"

TF: Membership in the real-cyclist community does not require one to be a "computer user". The only usually-electrical gadget that membership in the real-cyclist community requires, rather, is a headlight at night. I say usually-electrical because, for example, The Last Bike Ride Out of the 20th Century instead used a Coleman fossil-fueled lantern (the most practical headlight for the time-travel-requiring application; the mount for it is still on my bike) as a headlight; but, the average one of your fellow cyclist-inferiority cyclists that I see apparently can't even afford _any_ headlight for their bike, even though a bike headlight costs but a tiny fraction as much as a computer does! In short, stop trying to insinuate that cycling's rank and file consists of computer users.


"I was merely trying to help a simpleton"

TF: What part of "It is you who is a simpleton" don't you understand? Speaking of which, I think I'm going to buy a whole bunch of popcorn and invite some of my meatspace friends over to join me in the laugh riot that I - along with, I'm sure, some morse-code-understanding _existing_ readers of this thread who haven't piped up because they don't want to ruin the fun - am having over your confessed inability to read the crown jewel of what you've been called.


"with the simple problem"

TF: Thinking that it's a "problem", is a _common_ error of the kind of simpletons that I never thought I'd find such a textbook example of as you are.