Road Cycling - Used Litespeed frames - Differences in models?

I’m planning on building a bike this winter to replace my 14 year old 3.0 Cannondale. I’m still researching frames - I'm not set on Litespeed, but I have some questions about used Litespeed frames.

Can anyone explain the differences in Litespeed frames (or point me to a good source that does)? I’ve found a couple articles on the web, but nothing as detailed or trustworthy as I’d like. I’m interested in 1998 – 2001 or so, Natchez, Classic, Arenberg and Tuscany. The geometry of all of these is similar enough to my Cannondale, but I want more specifics about stiffness and ride characteristics (i.e., least BB flex, softest ride, best frame for racing, best frame for long days in the saddle, etc).

I have '98 and '99 catalogs at home, I think. I think the Arenberg and Tuscany have similar geometry, but the Arenberg doesn't use Ti in some places (the stays? I don't think that's changed if you want to check the web page). The Classic is a little more stretched out... notice the space between the rear tire and the seat tube. The Classic and I think Tuscany have slightly ovalized tubes at the BB to decrease flex. Not sure about the Arenberg. I have a Classic, know about 100 people with Tuscany's and a few with Arenbergs. We use them for racing, centuries, whatever. I never hear any of them complain. Just last week-end, on a 70 mile ride, one did say "don't you love Ti?" Three of the six of us were on Litespeeds.

My $0.02: there's not much to justify the additional expense of the Classic. The Tuscany and Arenberg seem to be just fine for all day in the saddle, and handle a little more nimbly.
Bottom bracket flex may be a problem if you're getting a pretty big frame, or are a Marty Nothstein sprinter. It's not going to be stiff like an Al crit frame, but they aren't noodles, either.

There is a discussion group at the Litespeed page... I don't think it's for owners only. You might try posting your question there for more feedback.

I have a 2001 55cm Classic and at 5' 10" 165 lbs there is very little flex. As far as a confortable ride, I feel it's more comfortable than my old steel Bottechia. But the Litespeed's carbon fork has a lot to do with that too as does the comfy seat. I think as long as you get a frame that closely resembles (geometry wise) old old bike you should be OK. Just my .02.

Ahh, Litespeed...


Originally posted by roadbuzz
I think the Arenberg and Tuscany have similar geometry, but the Arenberg doesn't use Ti in some places (the stays? I don't think that's changed if you want to check the web page).

Don't know for older models, but since 2002 the Arenberg and Tuscany have identical geometry and are both full Ti. The difference is that the Tuscany has tapered top and down tubes (a bit fancier and lighter) and that the Arenberg was officially sold only as a complete bike (although I got my Arenberg custom built). The 2002 Arenberg came with an integrated headset; later it was offered again with a classic headset.

Originally posted by roadbuzz
There is a discussion group at the Litespeed page... I don't think it's for owners only. You might try posting your question there for more feedback.

That forum is part of the Litespeed Owners Circle, to which you would have to register (submitting, among other things, a frame serial number). This might not be very problematic. Yet, so far the forum is not very lively (certainly not as busy as this one)--although some members are very helpful. The Litespeed officials themselves, however, hardly participate in it.

Doh! I blew it on several counts. The Arenbergs *were* all Ti. The Arenberg replaced the Natchez in 2000. It looks like the Natch had a longer wheelbase, almost as long as the Classic, but had radial seatstays, like the Arenberg & Tuscany. The '99 catalog lists the following differences between the Natch & the Classic: Tapered/butted tubeset, braze-on front der, sculpted seat tube, welded on seat stem binder. For differences between Tuscany and Classic it says Radial Seatstays, shorter chainstays, Al seat collar.

In the 2000 catalog it lists Tuscany differences from Arenberg as 1 1/8" headtube, triangular top tube, oversized teardrop shaped downtube, shorter chainstays. It lists Classic differences from Tuscany as: Welded-on front der mount, straight seat stays, sculpted seat tube w/welded on binder.

If you run across any specific questions on models (geometry, sizes, etc.) from 99 or 2000, PM me and I'll look it up.

The Natchez, Tuscany and Arenberg were all 'entry' level Litespeeds, originally selling in the $1400 range for the frame (if available) but mostly sold as complete bikes in the $2200-2600 range depending. Mostly Shimano, Campy
higher. Classic was the "bottom" of the high end range and was designed to
match standard steel bike geometry, hence the Classic name. In that era it retailed for $1500 to 1800 as a frame, and 1000 to 1500 more for a bike depending on grade of the grupo used and wheels. Palmares and Vortex were the highend frames, Palmares was supplanted by Ghisallo more recently. Litespeed changes specs almost every yr so, except for the Classic which has been essentially the same, the high end frames differ from year to year. I think they get bored easily at Litespeed and have short attention spans. The nice thing about the '98-01 era was the use of 1" or 1 1/8" threadless, or some threaded headsets. '02 marked the intro of the integral headset about which Cane Creek had some interesting generic comments on their web site in a technical paper. Prices have skyrocketted in the past two
yrs and frames are less available, Vortex was $3300 for an Ultegra bike in '01
and now is $4600-5600 (Ultegra -> Campy). A friend just bought a Classic
'01 in Ultegra for $2200 via Ebay with 400miles on the odo. Steve

From stuff I posted in another forum I had links to another site... Not sure I can find it again... But the basics is this:

The frames that have more or less the same geometry and weight typically differ some in finish but the biggest difference is the CHOICE or components. The "lower end" frames are just as good as the others but the cost is in the groupo. if you look at the lowest end bikes you can't order them with the top-o-de-line campy or the "choice" carbon fork.

As you move up the price range, the frame may change, but is still basically the same. But your choice of components moves up.

The Blade, Ghisalo and other "specialty" frames are a different breed and those are totally different.

used lightspeeds aren't worth much (depending on use/milage/etc) my buddy wanted to trade in his old lightspeed for a new one (lightspeed is currently taking their old Ti frames back for new ones - like a customer loyalty thing) and his 5 year old Tuscany was worth $400. of course he was truthful in saying that it had >25,000 miles and had been raced for years.

i'd buy it for $400 given the chance though.

Originally posted by RiPHRaPH
used lightspeeds aren't worth much (depending on use/milage/etc) my buddy wanted to trade in his old lightspeed for a new one (lightspeed is currently taking their old Ti frames back for new ones - like a customer loyalty thing) and his 5 year old Tuscany was worth $400. of course he was truthful in saying that it had >25,000 miles and had been raced for years.i'd buy it for $400 given the chance though.

You must be referring to the American Bicycles Group trade-in program. That is a joke, I would say. It is more about luring you into a new bike than anything else. I don't know how they calculate the value of a used Ti bike (like the 'day value' employed by insurance companies, perhaps?), but their quotes always end up to be ridicilously low.

Email Litespeed directly at info@litespeed.com
My experiences with their customer service has been great, I'm sure they'll help you!

i found out that the older models that aren't integrated headset models don't have as much resale value. to me it only heightens the resale value.