Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - A call to value conscious hipsters

Please go over to the road forum and chime in on the bikesdirect thread. They are proposing to offer some new product lines. It seems that they might be able to sell Reynolds 853 road frames for 400$. If they can do a road frame for 400$ why not convince them to offer a track frame of that tubing?

full lugged +1

link (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=356390&highlight=bikesdirect)

8 - Ti cyclo cross bike with Ultegra or and lots of Ritchey Pro stuff -- $1500 (no disc brakes - so its legal)

Why hello there Mr. Bikesdirect. May I buy you a drink?

I chimed in with 3 requests only to visit thier site and find they already sell two of them. That Motobecane SS 29er looks pretty slick.

It has already been decided. The carbon-fibre frames are made by Kestrel, which was recently bought by Fuji. Sounds like a good deal but wow, an 853 track frame would rule.


Items I can do:

Famous Brand CF frameset in RED for $648 {list 1899** or this frame built up with really nice parts; WCS cockpit & wheels; Ultegra shifters/der, FSA SLK carbon compact crank for $1748. [probably ships Feb 08]

Famous Brand CF frameset in ORANGE for $848 {list $2199** or this frame built up with really nice parts; WCS cockpit & wheels; Ultegra shifters/der, FSA SLK carbon compact crank for $1948. [probably ships Feb 08]

Motobecane FLY TEAM Ti for $1998 [this is the most insane deal on a XTR level Ti bike ever] [probably ships April 08]

Motobecane le Champion Ti Road with Ultegra Shifter, Der, Ritchey Pro cockpit & DS wheels; cane creek brakes, and FSA engery compact for $1498 [probably ships April/May 08]

Motobecane le Champion SL Ti Road with Ultegra SL ICE group {shift,der,crank, brakes], Ritchey WCS cockpit & procotol wheels; for $1898 [probably ships April/May 08]

Motobecane le Champion SL Team Ti Road with DuraAce group {shift,der,crank, brakes], Ritchey WCS cockpit & procotol wheels; for $2298 [probably ships April/May 08]

Vuelta CF Moncoq Clincher wheels 38mm -- $568 [either campy or shimano - I will bring both] [probably ships April 08]

Vuelta CF Moncoq Tabular wheels 50mm -- $418 [either campy or shimano - I will bring both] [probably ships April 08]

that is 10 things to pick from
and I think it is a good selection

That title really needs a hyphen. I was preparing to value conscious hipsters.

I chimed in with 3 requests only to visit thier site and find they already sell two of them. That Motobecane SS 29er looks pretty slick.

Yeah, their current product offering is pretty impressive. I was disappointed after buying a used 'cross bike, only to find that I could have got a basically equivalent or better frame from Bikes Direct for the same cost.

Motobecane FLY TEAM Ti for $1998 [this is the most insane deal on a XTR level Ti bike ever] [probably ships April 08]

Good Jesus. I love bikesdirect.

I promise this is the last time I post about a non-track frame on this thread.

i don't get the "no disc brakes so it's legal" comment on the ti cross bike.

i mean, you can still put the mounts on there. it adds a lot of functionality and costs a few bucks and a few grams extra. plus disc brakes are legal in most u.s. cross races.

Why hello there Mr. Bikesdirect. May I buy you a drink?

ill buy the second

lugged track bike +1

boo

singlespeed bikes are already cheap

give me groups and frames for the price of groups or give me nothing

I said this in the other thread, but I'll repeat it here. I think that 853 would be great as a group buy option, but as a regular offering, it misses the point somewhat. The road frame is logical, because the market is substantially larger, but for the average Bikes Direct track bike buyer, super lightweight high-grade steel would be complete overkill. They really should introduce a lugged steel track frame, a la Alien Bikes, in the $2-$300 range, but just keep it basic 4130 CroMo.

Also, this sounds like I should start saving:
Motobecane le Champion Ti Road with Ultegra Shifter, Der, Ritchey Pro cockpit & DS wheels; cane creek brakes, and FSA engery compact for $1498 [probably ships April/May 08]

boo

singlespeed bikes are already cheap

give me groups and frames for the price of groups or give me nothing

you already get that. how bout groups for much less than the price of groups?

yeah then i wont have to deal with getting rid of a frame im embarrassed to ride

^ +1

I said this in the other thread, but I'll repeat it here. I think that 853 would be great as a group buy option, but as a regular offering, it misses the point somewhat. The road frame is logical, because the market is substantially larger, but for the average Bikes Direct track bike buyer, super lightweight high-grade steel would be complete overkill. They really should introduce a lugged steel track frame, a la Alien Bikes, in the $2-$300 range, but just keep it basic 4130 CroMo.


as an avg bikes direct track bike buyer, i disagree. i would love an 853 track frame from bd.

I said this in the other thread, but I'll repeat it here. I think that 853 would be great as a group buy option, but as a regular offering, it misses the point somewhat. The road frame is logical, because the market is substantially larger, but for the average Bikes Direct track bike buyer, super lightweight high-grade steel would be complete overkill. They really should introduce a lugged steel track frame, a la Alien Bikes, in the $2-$300 range, but just keep it basic 4130 CroMo.

agreed...basically a lugged Kilo TT would be perfect

For the record, in that thread lugs have been discussed and he's said he'd be amenable to a high quality (853 or 631) lugged frame, but it would add 200 to the price of a complete bike; I'd imagine that would go for a track frame too.

Hope springs eternal though. I'm crossing my fingers for the ti road bike myself.

OK
From what I can tell; I maybe getting a free drink
AND lots of people want higher grade track frame
some want lugged

Can I ask
is it OK to go with function over fashion?
tig welded is just as functional as lugs [many say better] but lugs look great
Price of lugs is a lot

let'sd put it this way
853 tigged is cheaper than lugged 520
so - given that

what would be the choice
top of the line 853 tig
nice 520 with lugs
or something else?

[btw - 853 with lugs costs more than carbon fiber - and almost as much as Ti]

seems I should really do the higher grade track
now the question is which frame

btw #2 - light stiff aluminum is less than 520 even - not expensive at all

here I am open to ideas
and drinks [LOL**

853 plz.

Can I ask
is it OK to go with function over fashion?


:roflmao:

welcome to bfssfg

Aluminum is definitely the cheapest, lightest and most pragmatic, but since I think very few people intend to races these bikes anywhere other than the local alleycat, I don't think it'd be as popular.

I still think that lugged CroMo would win out over 853, for the type of buyer you're seeing (unless we're talking about a group buy). I'd really love to be wrong about this.

What kind of price are we talking, anyway?

is it OK to go with function over fashion?


I highly recommend you read Bike Snob NYC blog.

+1 for 853 tigged

i think it really depends how cheap you can get the 853 frame. there are lots of other options for high-end track frames on the market, and really the demand isn't for high-end **** anyway. what doesn't exist out there is a nice enough (520) -lugged- track frame for cheap. the TT is awesome because of the lugged fork, tight geo, 520 tubing and price - I think if you made a lugged version people would be willing to pay more.

and yes, that's for aesthetic reasons.

+1 for 853 tigged

..

Pre-attached top tube pad and generic spoke cards + 1

I would vote 853 tig. There are a number of lower cost track frames available with 520 or 4130, but not a lot available with nicer tubing unless you go find some vintage lugged steel. I love lugged steel, but to keep the cost down I would have no problem riding a 853 tig welded frame.

Aren't hipsters supposed to adopt popular socially-responsible causes, so they can attempt to outdo one another with their progressiveness?

...in which case, no legitimate hipster would purchase a new frame from a place like BD while there are perfectly usable frames floating around, destined eventually for the landfill.

(note: I support the "reduce, reuse, recycle" doctrine because I like the earth, not because I am a hipster - although you may call me what you will.)

Aren't hipsters supposed to adopt popular socially-responsible causes, so they can attempt to outdo one another with their progressiveness?

...in which case, no legitimate hipster would purchase a new frame from a place like BD while there are perfectly usable frames floating around, destined eventually for the landfill.

(note: I support the "reduce, reuse, recycle" doctrine because I like the earth, not because I am a hipster - although you may call me what you will.)

You crack me up. :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

http://www.velocitynation.com/pictures/image/cranks.jpg

Can I ask? Why in the world would you want a lugged frame? 1) brazing isn't as good as a weld (Geekhouse explained the difference to me), and 2) you're stuck with a built in, nonreplaceable seatpost binder.

Can I ask? Why in the world would you want a lugged frame?

I don't think you're asking this question sincerely, because I think you already know the answer. People want lugged steel because that's how vintage track bikes (and keirin bikes) were made, and vintage track bikes are trendy now. End of story.

Can I ask? Why in the world would you want a lugged frame? 1) brazing isn't as good as a weld (Geekhouse explained the difference to me), and 2) you're stuck with a built in, nonreplaceable seatpost binder.

gosh, because seatpost binders are known for ****ting on you all the time :rolleyes:

+1 853 tig'd frame. good luck finding an 853 track frame anywhere else - i don't know of any besides the ultra-rare samson or other keirin frames that pop up once every blue moon in 853. alien bike just came out with a 520/4130 lugged track frame, and besides dutret talking down on it, it appears to be suitable for a good amount of potential track bike buyers that want lugs.

I don't think you're asking this question sincerely, because I think you already know the answer. People want lugged steel because that's how vintage track bikes (and keirin bikes) were made, and vintage track bikes are trendy now. End of story.

But this is a bike from bikesdirect, far, far from a handmade vintage track bike.

Hence, my sincere questioning people's motives for wanting a lugged BD.

[QUOTE=blickblocks;5588435]1) brazing isn't as good as a weld.

Holy **** thats funny, almost as funny as "Brazing is better than welded."

I would soooo kill for the 853 frame. I love the way lugs look, but nicer tubing is much more important.

Aluminum with a lugged threaded fork ala 90's canondales would make a killing although I don't even really want one. Also, I'd love a reasonable lugged frame but the price point is everything. Too high and you might as well go with a vintage or custom frame. 4-500 is money. These are all just opinions though, the thing I feel strongest about is how awesome it is that BD is doing this kind of research and not just popping out some "trendy fixie" like a lot of companies at the moment.

Dave Moulton speaks his mind about brazing vs. welding. (http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/brazing-vs-welding.html)

I dont know anything about frames, so people vote and get the best one so I can buy it too!

Dave Moulton speaks his mind about brazing vs. welding. (http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/brazing-vs-welding.html)

I don't see how that's relevant. What I said is that a welded frame is no better than a lugged or fillet brazed frame. It seems like Dave is saying the same thing.

I have an 853 tigged road bike I converted. I like it a lot. :)

But this is a bike from bikesdirect, far, far from a handmade vintage track bike.

Hence, my sincere questioning people's motives for wanting a lugged BD.

Alright, then let me be more clear - they want a bike that looks like what they believe a "real" track bike is, which consists of a lugged steel frame. I'm not arguing for this, I think it's useless nostalgia, but that's the reason why.

The thing is, I don't think you're really this naive, I think you're just being coy. It seems like you're more interested in sharing your knowledge of welding vs. brazing than you are curious.

My rode bike came from bikesdirect and I love it. ; )

Though I love lugs dearly, I don't reckon a lugged bike from a factory in Asia in 2007/8 is much to get excited about.

So I'd vote for the 853 TIG'd.

.....I'd also like a horizontal top tube, a threaded fork and the clearance to fit 700 x 28 tires, snugly.....

since we're talking frames only (instead of completes which are hell to ship) would these be available north of the border?

The thing is, I don't think you're really this naive, I think you're just being coy. It seems like you're more interested in sharing your knowledge of welding vs. brazing than you are curious.

I'm sorry, I just thought lugged went out the door with threaded forks. You seem to be insisting this point that I'm trying to troll huh?

I would like to say something about STEEL

Lots of people are asking for options in steel frames. A wide variety of requests: Lugged and Tigged. Full 4130, Reynolds 520, Reynolds 631, Reynolds 853, and other tubing too. Riders interested in Track, Touring, Commuting, CycloCross, Road, XC Mountain, and more.

I hear these requests and appreciate them. I understand that those asking for lugged know it is not for function but to look nice. Cost of course is high these days for lugged. Over $100 added to a frame. I think lugs for appearance need to be real nice – such as stainless exposed or ornate.

Even though there a small market, I would like to do something. So I am getting some samples. Tig 853 Road and ATB powder-coated – would be about $299 for frame only. Lugged Track and Road powder-coated for about $399 frame only. I am of course only considering the top maker in Asia.

I will probably bring 3 or 4 frames in addition to the current Kilo TT. Not nearly enough for everyone’s wish list. But a start.

I am still interested in any input and feedback. Lugs worth $100 [plus extra weight and less choice in frame design]. Tubing. Use. Design.

Especially, tubing brand. As now Reynolds is getting very expensive due to value of currency. TrueTemper or Tange would be less expensive.

Thanks

Mike

Kaisei is nice tubing if you can get it.

Yeah, I understand the Reynolds thing. We forget about the exchange rate, but you could probably get a comparable steel from Tange for considerably less. I know I'm personally not so in love with Reynolds that it'd be a deal maker/deal breaker.