Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - Is Your Light Bright Enough?

Is your light bright enough for road riding safely in unlit areas up to around 25mph? If so, which light is it? I bought a Light & Motion Solo Logic a couple years ago and while it's a good light I start wishing for more illumination at around 15mph. It puts out 390 lumens on high. I would consider anything less than that pretty much just a safety light or only for use in lit areas or at low speeds.

Thanks.

With a Dinnotte 200L on my bars and a Fenix L2D on my helmet, I went over 40mph on a few downhill stretches last night. Felt fine. The long throw of the L2D really helps at speed. However, this was on a loop road in a state park, where I pass about 2 cars on average per 9 mile lap, plus I've ridden it dozens of times and know every turn.

Your night vision is poor or the color of your Solo's light does not work well for your vision. That light would be fine for most riders at much higher speeds than you are indicating. Have you experimented with the the beam width/tightness?

You may need a vision check or experiment with some lense colors that might give you better night vision. I had clear lenses last year and am using yellow lenses this year. The yellow lenses improve my night vision. YMMV.

I have a Light and Motion Vega which is only 85 lumens. Most people that I have talked to that use it like it very much. I don't think it is enough light. However the Princeton Tec Switchback 3 (300 lumens) and Fenix L2D CE Q5 (180 lumens) that I acquired recently can both be used by me comfortably at higher speeds than you are indicating.

Your night vision is poor or the color of your Solo's light does not work well for your vision. That light would be fine for most riders at much higher speeds than you are indicating. Have you experimented with the the beam width/tightness?

You may need a vision check or experiment with some lense colors that might give you better night vision. I had clear lenses last year and am using yellow lenses this year. The yellow lenses improve my night vision. YMMV.

I have a Light and Motion Vega which is only 85 lumens. Most people that I have talked to that use it like it very much. I don't think it is enough light. However the Princeton Tec Switchback 3 (300 lumens) and Fenix L2D CE Q5 (180 lumens) that I acquired recently can both be used by me comfortably at higher speeds than you are indicating.

Yellow light tends to increase contrast, which helps you see at night.

I have a dual 3W luxeon headlight, maybe 160 lumens, and it's not bright enough for night rides.

Would you please both define exactly what you mean by not bright enough for night rides? I am an extremely conservative rider with only average night vision and all the lights you mention would be bright enough for me. Ellerbro referenced road riding so I assume that is what everyone is talking about. I ride the same country roads during the daytime in the summer and nighttime during the winter. I know them well and they are mostly well maintained. Are you guys riding under different conditions?

Never enough! My first light was Specialized Preview Plus 5W. Then I got a PB Alias 10W. Upgraded it to SC and 15W. This year I just got the Dinotte 200L (20W approx). I'm pretty sure next year I will convince myself that I need a Dinotte 600L, and the 200L on my helmet. Wait, I just did...:D

If the light is incapable of illuminating obstacles in the road like cracks, potholes or debris then the light is insufficient for road riding. I should be able to see anything up ahead that would cause damage or whip the wheel out from under me, early enough that I can react.

Any headlight is bright enough if you move slow enough.

It's when you want to be seen by car drivers and/or want to go faster that you need brighter lights. ;)

My problem is not lumens, but beam patterns. For off road use a round beam is fine, but on the road i want a downward firing light with a rectangular beam shape and nice spill. Now i use mr16 lights, they are really wastefull on the road, but really light up the forest. Some dynamo lights have really good patterns but lack the power. Time to do some moding.

To clarify: worst case I'm talking about riding on completely unlit and unfamiliar roads with the possibility of encountering rocks, branches, potholes, small mammals, etcetera. I'm definitely not comfortable over 15mph on roads like these with the L&M Solo Logic.

Well, on totally unlit roads my helmet mounted 20w 10 deg mr16 works well, but those roads are in the forest so i wont be going so fast. I think i know what you want, i would say get a 35w osram irc mr16 flood AND a spot and you will really see whats ahead and around. Or you could go the led route. Like 7 power leds...

Is your light bright enough for road riding safely in unlit areas up to around 25mph?
Thanks.

I have a 25W halogen with 720 lumens (Jet Lites Axis system) and on unfamiliar roads/tracks, I feel it's just enough for 18-20mph. For 25mph, I would like another 25W on the helmet or handlebars.

My goal with my bike lights is to achieve a level of light that will allow me to see everything in my immediate area and quite some distance ahead as well as I can in daylight or as close to it as possible. I realize this is not everyones goal. Sure I can ride around with a measely 100 lumens and pretend it is safe at higher speeds, but realistically you are bound to miss some things on the road or trail. It's nice when your lights are able to show every crack, stick, werewolf, whatever, etc. in plenty of time to react if you have to. curveship, I don't know how comfortable you would be going 40mph in unfamiliar territory with those lights. I've done 40 mph downhill at night with anywhere from 250 lumens which sucked, all the way up close to 2,000 lumens which is absolutely amazing. Around town for the most part I like to run about ~500 lumens to be sure that I am seen and can see. On trails I have been using ~1,300 lumens which seems to be plenty, but sometimes I crank up to 2,000 lumens and have some real fun. No I am not blind and my night vision is as good as anyone I know, but I don't like surprises when I am going at high speeds at night. Anyway for road riding I feel 500 lumens is a nice amount. I could get by ok with 200 lumens, but I wouldn't be too thrilled about it and would consider it the bare minimum.

Where are you getting 2000 lumens? And like i said if its a round beam much of it is wasted in to the sky.

I should be able to see anything up ahead that would cause damage or whip the wheel out from under me, early enough that I can react.Just seeing the obstacles/debris/potholes etc is not enough. To decide what to do about it, one needs a beam wide enough to know one's options. For my commuting speeds, a 2.6W / 6V dynamo lamp (powered by a battery pack) has been surprisingly good in that sense, because it gives a nice rectangular beam pattern.

--J

I guess from everyone's comments I have been prudent to do only night group riding on roads that I ride all the time and everyone has a substantial light. There are also few hills of any size in this part of central Indiana. I have only done one solo ride and another ride with just my neighbor. I had my Princeton Tec Switchback 3 helmet and L&M Vega on the bars and he had a Minenewt.X2 Dual. So I felt like we had sufficient light even on a route that I was riding for the second time and first time at night. I have never used as powerful a light as some of you and may feel differently if I saw what I was missing or if I had hit something that caused a flat or wrecked a wheel or injury. So far so good in a full season of night riding.

I could get by ok with 200 lumens, but I wouldn't be too thrilled about it and would consider it the bare minimum.

I would tend to agree now that i've seen the 200L in person on a rainy day on patchy streetlighted streets - just not enough.

To clarify: worst case I'm talking about riding on completely unlit and unfamiliar roads with the possibility of encountering rocks, branches, potholes, small mammals, etcetera. I'm definitely not comfortable over 15mph on roads like these with the L&M Solo Logic.

as a relatively experienced night time road rider-commuter, i truly believe that 300 lumens -like you said your light sheds- is output enough to safely speed at 40mph.
My current light setup is approx 250 lum, medium side spill and does the job fine at that speed. Considering that aging makes night vision worse -i'm 43 and already feel like sometimes my car's headbeam is weak - a younger person should be more than happy with your light output.

My problem is not lumens, but beam patterns. For off road use a round beam is fine, but on the road i want a downward firing light with a rectangular beam shape and nice spill. Now i use mr16 lights, they are really wastefull on the road, but really light up the forest. Some dynamo lights have really good patterns but lack the power. Time to do some moding.
Beam pattern is very important. Light efficiency can be improved over 50% by using an elliptical beam pattern. All motor vehicle headlights incorporate elliptical beam patterns in their design for good reason. I did a DIY 1-watt Luxeon LED star (http://www.luxeonstar.com/index.php) in a matching Fraen elliptical lens and holder to replace the dynamo type headlight that came in the kit.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r154/n4zou/Hpim0312.jpg
The light output is much higher and much improved by using the 10 X 20 degree elliptical pattern. Attaching the light at the front wheel axel improves the ability to see obstacles but a policeman stopped me and informed me that state law requires all headlights be a minimum of 2 feet above the pavement so I had to reinstall the light just below my handlebars. I am limited to LED lights that function at or below 500mA as I am using a dynamo system. Even with my small 45 lumen 1-watt LED I can see just fine with it. Granted, more is always better when it comes to light output but I needed an unlimited light runtime so I must live with a 500mA power limit.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r154/n4zou/Hpim0313.jpg

Where are you getting 2000 lumens? And like i said if its a round beam much of it is wasted in to the sky.

I have two NR HID lights on my bars and a Lupine Wilma on my helmet. The two HID lights are connected to one battery with a splitter and with both on I only get a couple of hours so I typically just use one HID and my Wilma helmet light. Using Only one HID and the Wilma I can still get a lot of light and get well over 4 hours runtime so that is the route I usually go on trails.

I have a 25W halogen with 720 lumens (Jet Lites Axis system) and on unfamiliar roads/tracks, I feel it's just enough for 18-20mph. For 25mph, I would like another 25W on the helmet or handlebars.

I thought halogens get about 10-15 lumens per watt. This is almost 30 lumens per watt. Is the light output of halogens that variable?

I thought halogens get about 10-15 lumens per watt. This is almost 30 lumens per watt. Is the light output of halogens that variable?

High quality over-volted halogens can get to this level.

I have two NR HID lights on my bars and a Lupine Wilma on my helmet. The two HID lights are connected to one battery with a splitter and with both on I only get a couple of hours so I typically just use one HID and my Wilma helmet light. Using Only one HID and the Wilma I can still get a lot of light and get well over 4 hours runtime so that is the route I usually go on trails.

Two HIDs and a Wilma? Are you vaporizing small animals that get near you? Wow!

As for my own - 13W HID about 725 lumens:

You tell me if it's bright enough:

http://pod.ath.cx/hid/03-one-trailtech-eclipse.jpg
http://pod.ath.cx/hid/03-one-trailtech-eclipse-view2.jpg
http://pod.ath.cx/hid/z_old/BeamShotTwo-MaxBrightness.jpg

Its bright enough. Lol, from the pics it looks like it has some really nice spill, my 10deg mr16 doesn't.

I have no trouble at all seeing using a single Fenix L2D Premium flashlight mounted to my handlebar. On the brightest setting (turbo), it puts out 175 lumens. However, I generally run it on the 100 lumens setting for longer run time. Fenix flashlights are so inexpensive, that you could use two of them for about $125, and I can't imagine needing more light than that. I have a hill on my route where my speed tops 30 mph, and my Fenix provides enough light for me.

You may notice that most riders do not want to see well at night. Having almost crashed over some water on the road, I agree with you that more light is needed to maintain your speeds.

Have you considered the L&M arc? If riding in cold temps or weight is important, then go with the li-ion battery. If normal riding, a NiMH battery should work. Unfortunately the li-ion batteries are more expensive. The other thing you should know is that they have a life of 3 years from manufacture. This is separate from recharge cycles. Here we tend to have some cold weather in the winter, so I want to go with an ARC light. I don't have the light yet, so can't give actual review but the specs looks impressive.

All LED's are too low powered yet. Maybe in a couple of years they will be strong enough, but not there yet. They are ok for being seen, but not ok for seeing.

Good luck.

You may notice that most riders do not want to see well at night. Having almost crashed over some water on the road, I agree with you that more light is needed to maintain your speeds.

Have you considered the L&M arc? If riding in cold temps or weight is important, then go with the li-ion battery. If normal riding, a NiMH battery should work. Unfortunately the li-ion batteries are more expensive. The other thing you should know is that they have a life of 3 years from manufacture. This is separate from recharge cycles. Here we tend to have some cold weather in the winter, so I want to go with an ARC light. I don't have the light yet, so can't give actual review but the specs looks impressive.

All LED's are too low powered yet. Maybe in a couple of years they will be strong enough, but not there yet. They are ok for being seen, but not ok for seeing.

Good luck.


ALL ?

I've been riding dark country roads with potholes and no street lights at all. And lots of hills. On 23mm tires. I've been delighted with the 200L under these conditions. It replaced a Cateye EL-500 and a PB 5000x (3.5 watt halogen). The 200L blows them away, no comparison at all. I also bought a Planet Bike Blaze for a helmet light (which is much brighter than the EL-500, and cheaper too) to help see around corners since my 200L is on my handlebars.

My average times are only about 1 to 1.5 mph slower than during the day on the same course. On descents that I usually go 35 mph during the day, I top out at about 28 mph at night (the only difference being I don't brake during the day but do at night). Other than that, I feel confident with this amount of light, given that I'm nearly always under 20 mph anyway. I can't imagine how bright the 600L or Trinewt lights must be.

You guys keep talking about lumens; beam patterns play a huge roll in visibility. You should be talking about products that produce a pattern that suits the occasion.

I have been thinking about using a moped head light since it probably has a good road beam.

I have hit 47mph with my light setup. 2x200L on the bars and a 15w niterider halogen helmet light. I have since dumped the 15w halogen (anyone want to buy it? it is a little over a year old).

-D

I have hit 47mph with my light setup. 2x200L on the bars and a 15w niterider halogen helmet light. I have since dumped the 15w halogen (anyone want to buy it? it is a little over a year old).

-D

I couldn't trust my 200L anywhere over 25kph+ on unfamiliar roads.

I couldn't trust my 200L anywhere over 25kph+ on unfamiliar roads.

Keep in mind i wasn't say "a" 200L. I had 2 200L and a 12W niterider halogen.

-D

i run a Wolf Eyes on my bar, with a secondary Cree light there too, around 350 lumens, then I add a fenix on my helmet and a secondary Cree there as well, works out to be another 250 lumens

so around 600 lumens in all

Btw, i am thinking of adding up a Surefire G2L (L means LED) as a backup. It will have Lithium CR123A batteries.

http://www.dmaessentials.com/images/G2L-BK_large2.jpg

Keep in mind i wasn't say "a" 200L. I had 2 200L and a 12W niterider halogen.

-D

Keep in mind I didn't say 200L's. I'm not convinced another 200L will make much of a difference either.

Try going to a Graingers industrial supply store or struggle through their web site and locate any of the following GE PAR36 bulbs: 4509, 4700, 4519, and Q4509 at around $19.00. While they all claim 100 watts at 13 volts they tend to list short life-spans indicating they are already over-volted. 12 volts would be fine. They go from spot to very narrow spot beams. If you are worried about speed get the Q4509, an aircraft landing light. I have used one of these lights in a standard rubber tractor headlight mount for $8.00. $50 for a heavy SLA of adequate capacity. I have been on a lot of night rides with many others and nothing, but nothing, compared with mine for sheer power. Fill the whole road out to 2 blocks and reflective signs show up 1/4 mile away. Total cost $100 or so.

High quality over-volted halogens can get to this level.

Try an overvolted MR-16. Blows the doors off an MR-11...and maybe HID. I have 4 MR11 lamps pushing out 2700 lumen (I don't have any problem with the beam pattern by the way) and I added an MR-16 this last week. It puts out almost as much as the other 4 lamps combined. I can illuminate a tree a block away and see individual leaves. Can't do that with the MR11;)

I call it the Martian heat ray:D

Try an overvolted MR-16. Blows the doors off an MR-11...and maybe HID. I have 4 MR11 lamps pushing out 2700 lumen (I don't have any problem with the beam pattern by the way) and I added an MR-16 this last week. It puts out almost as much as the other 4 lamps combined. I can illuminate a tree a block away and see individual leaves. Can't do that with the MR11;)

I call it the Martian heat ray:D

What wattage is your MR16... and what voltage are you running it at? I'm putting my homebrew system together and I plan to use two 20W MR16's overvolted at 14.4V on a NiMH pack. One spot and one flood on separate switches so I can run one or both to balance light needs and runtime. Runtime should not be a huge factor... my ride is about 45 minutes each way with lots of time and facilities at work to recharge if needed.

Your post makes me wonder if I'm going too far with the flame throwers! Whaddaya think?

I
I can't imagine how bright the 600L or Trinewt lights must be.


BRIGHT! I have the 600L. No problems on 35-40 mph descents. I also have no problems seeing glass and other road debris in time to react. I also have the Dinotte tail light, and feel as safe and confident riding at night as in daylight.

Two HIDs and a Wilma? Are you vaporizing small animals that get near you? Wow!

No not vaporizing them, just trying to avoid the ones that scurry across my path. :)

Keep in mind I didn't say 200L's. I'm not convinced another 200L will make much of a difference either.

To each his own. "I" am riding with 2 when I used to only have one and it does make a difference, at least for me.

-D

What wattage is your MR16... and what voltage are you running it at? I'm putting my homebrew system together and I plan to use two 20W MR16's overvolted at 14.4V on a NiMH pack. One spot and one flood on separate switches so I can run one or both to balance light needs and runtime. Runtime should not be a huge factor... my ride is about 45 minutes each way with lots of time and facilities at work to recharge if needed.

Your post makes me wonder if I'm going too far with the flame throwers! Whaddaya think?

Mine is the same as you want to set up. I've used MR11 bulbs for nearly 20 years and they put out good light but this set up is the first time I've tried the MR16. The difference is outstanding!

You can never have too much light;) Okay, if you happen to burn a hole through the back of a motorist head, you're getting close but...:D

A Q4632 PAR36 4 1/2" bulb puts out 250 watts. And a battery for decent run time may weight more than the bike

A Q4632 PAR36 4 1/2" bulb puts out 250 watts. And a battery for decent run time may weight more than the bike

I think I'm getting enough now, thanks;)

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/cyccommute/IMG_0975.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/cyccommute/IMG_0979.jpg

1/60 or 1/30 shutterspeed, by the way.

I'm with cycocommute on this one. I just upgraded my homebrew system from 12V to 14.4V and it's a big difference. While I was at it, I also tried out a number of different bulbs at the new 14.4 voltage. Some interesting findings:


A 20W MR16 spot (est. 666 lumens @ 14.4V) completely blew away a 20W MR11 spot (lumens unknown). Granted, the MR16 was a highly efficient Philips EnergyAdvantage, but the MR11 was also a high quality Philips bulb not a cheapie. In other words, the best available in MR11. The MR16 appeared more than twice as bright to the eye.
A 30W MR16 spot (1152 lumens) appeared somewhat brighter than the 20W MR16 spot (666 lumens). Noticeably brighter, but not night and day. That one kinda surprised me. Yes, the center of the beam was quite a lot brighter, but that tight little 8 degree beam was already so bright that increasing it by 50% didn't really seem to make as much difference as you'd think.
A 30W MR16 24-deg narrow flood (1188 lumens) blew away the 30W MR16 spot (1152 lumens). Throwing all those lumens into such a tiny 8 degree beam ends up being kind of a waste. Spread it out and you've got a LOT of light on the road. Enough to illuminate the roadway even in driving rain, something I have to deal with often enough here that it's pretty important. By the way, this is only incrementally brighter than the 1080 lumens I was getting out of my previous 35 watt bulb at 12 volts ... but overvolting allowed me to get more light from a smaller bulb and step down from bulky 5000mAh battery pack to a much smaller 4200mAh pack.


Back to the OP's question: given a typical beam pattern I would find 390 lumens to be just barely enough to illuminate the roadway for a high speed downhill in total darkness. But only if it's dry out with minimal oncoming car headlights or other glare that impairs my night vision. If it's raining I would want a minimum of twice that, or else I'm going to have to be on the brakes and keep my speed under 25mph or even slower if there are a lot of intersections and conflict points. For reference, I should add that I'm over 40 and don't have the night vision that I did at 20, but probably a lot better than I will at 60.

I'm Good :)

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1005/blazevk1.jpg

You guys keep talking about lumens; beam patterns play a huge roll in visibility. You should be talking about products that produce a pattern that suits the occasion.

I have been thinking about using a moped head light since it probably has a good road beam.

Ok, its not a moped but here is the low beam from my Vespa lx150. Its goes a little faster than my bicycle. :) Its "enough" light.

All photos F3.5 2s shutter.
http://idisk.mac.com/timonz/Public/lxlo.jpg


And here is my quad cree MTB light on wide beam (500mA).
http://idisk.mac.com/timonz/Public/mtblow.jpg

And here is my road light dual cree Q5 at 1A
http://idisk.mac.com/timonz/Public/road.jpg

The vespa is a 45w halogen. Its sharply defined.
The MTB light has more spill and a similar width.
The road bike has much better throw.
I would not want to go for a ride through the dark woods on the Vespa. I don't ride it in lycra either.

Everybody, thanks for sharing your photos. I love it.

Actually I think I could use a bit more :)

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2682/light8pv6.jpg