"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Racermate Computrainer or Tacx Fortius

The indoor training season is looming, I can't deal with watching race dvds again, they always end the same. I'm contemplating getting a one of these trainers. Anybody use these that can comment on:

- training effectiveness (I guess this is more on the user than the tool)
- long term fun quotient, are they fun for a week, a season, for multiple seasons?
- ease of set up and continued use - I'm a computer/technological simpleton and basically want something that is easy to set up, like a lamp.

I can comment on the computrainer. I still enjoy mine after several months. It has been very beneficial for keeping my fitness stable with a very demanding schedule.

The training effectiveness is very good. I generally ride in the Multi-rider program because it is the easiest to do. I have several preprogrammed training routines for Tempo, VO2 Max and Intervals. The one thing about the computrainer is that the computer allows for no "dead" space in your stroke. The computer maintains the selected power regardless of the gear or cadence and forces you to have a smooth solid workout. I promise you that a simple tempo ride will strain your legs the first time you do one. There is no give in the effort.

The programs especially 3-D offer varied terrain and graphics. I actually have raced my evil twin around a "okay" graphic of central park and a great ride through the desert southwest. There are many programs that you can do to shake up your training. In one week I might do a Tempo ride of 4X15X3, a VO2 interval ride and finish with a one hour tempo. I have sixty+ different workouts that I can do so boredom is not a question.

The most complicated part of the system is the setup. You need a computer, (a laptop is the best...just for portability). There are three cables to run along the bike frame. I have strapped my #2 bike into the trainer fully wired and leave it there. It is a greater hassle than simply plugging into a trainer or slipping on to a set of rollers. If you find the right group they can help you through the setup and the training programs.

I believe that the computrainer provides the most solid fitness gains with the least amount of time.

I bought a Tackx unit from Colorado Cyclist. Couldn't even assemble it. What an astonishing piece of crap. I even spoke the US distribution rep about the lame assembly instructions. "Oh yeah, we keep telling them they suck, but they never change them' he told me.

Back to Colo Cyclist it went. That's the last purchase I made from Colo Cyclist by the way, over two years ago. I'm not sure what was more amazing: that a manufactuer could ship a product like that, or that Colo Cyclist would foist it on its unsuspecting customer base.

I have teammates who use the Computrainer. I use Tacx units.

Both are extremely effective for training purposes.

Long term fun quotient. I can't comment on the "fun" of indoor training, because I have yet to enjoy it. What I can say is that my experience with the Tacx units has found them to be quite enjoyable. There are the options of a "virtual world" (like a computer game with your bike as the controller), the Catalyst (a basic program the workout based on target HR, Power, or gradient via either time or distance...like programming ay workout machine), and my favorite (one of two reasons I use the Tacx over the computrainer) the Real Life Videos. The RLVs are what keep me coming back and entertained. I get the feeling (as much as you can on a trainer) that I am riding outside, and it helps to keep me from getting bored (Not computer graphics but actual filmed footage of famous rides). PM me if you have other questions.

Ease of setup? Unlike PCad, I found the Tacx units easy to setup. The disadvantage with them is that updates are usually buggy. I never update software or firmware until other people have experienced problems and Tacx has worked out the bugs. I don't believe this is a problem with the Computrainer.

You're making me look like a mechanical ****** Dr. W. That is highly accurate.

I copied this from another forum because I was too lazy to type it out myself but it's crucial.

The other thing with the Fortius if you are in the US (or other 110V power country) is that they've had issues with frying power supplies and also with the trainer being limited to a top speed of about 26 MPH going downhill. They claim to have solved the power supply issues with a firmware update, although the jury is still out on that one. As for the other, it appears to be a design flaw in hardware that they will not be able to surmount. They are pretending it doesn't exist, more or less.

The speed limit doesn't sound like much of an issue, and it isn't unless you plan to ride online with others via the new Tacx software (multi-rider capable), compete in a VR league, or ride online with Netathlon.

Oh, and riding over about 6% grades get to be extrememly difficult. The ability to keep a good cadence is messed up and you pedal squares big time. Normally doing a climb that like is 80-90rpms for me since I spin more up hills. I can't go in the 39x25 and get much over 60 rpms when it gets around 9-10% no matter the distance.

Supposedly Tacx is working on these problems, but don't hold your breath. It's been an 18 month long problem that they don't seem to address.

What forum would that be?

You can avoid the problems that the Computrainer and Tacx have but it will cost you.

You can avoid the problems that the Computrainer and Tacx have but it will cost you.

Wonder what this runs... 10K? The free computrainer the club assigned me is a better deal.

http://www.srm.de/bilder/sonst/ergo1-xxl.jpg

SRM ergometers are $22,000. I think they used to be $27,000 so I'm wondering why the price went down considering the exchange rate. I think there are only 6 in existence so maybe they're lowering the price in an effort to sell #7.

There are cheaper, better ergometers like the Velotron or better ergometers for the same price such as the Lode Excalibur Sport. The reason the Velotron seems to be a popular lab ergometer is because it's only around $8000. The Velotron was designed to address the Computrainer's failings (both are made by Racermate).

I've been using a Fortius for about a year, and it has made a big difference in the amount of time I can stand being on the trainer. That said, there are a few pros/cons to the Fortius.

Pros:

The real live videos really make the trainer. The four RLV programs I have range from about 40 miles to 70 miles and include several different types of terrain. The RLVs based on the mountain stages are my favorites. I find these great for getting in tempo and threshold workouts. I generally have no problems with grades below 10%, but above 10%, the resistance gets a bit choppy. It can also be motivational to race the course against one or more of your previous times.

Tacx is also releasing Ergo Videos that are like the RLVs but require you to maintain different wattages as the terrain changes. The required wattages are based on data acquired when actual riders rode the course. For example, in the Rabobank video, you try to maintain the same wattage (or a % of it) as the team did throughout the ride. These are very hard.

Catalyst mode allows you to do structured intervals, using either slope of watts to set the interval time and difficulty.

You can save ride files to WKO and keep track of training data.


Cons:

The downhill speed/wattage issue mention above is annoying. But, if you don't use the multiplayer function, it really only affects the data from the ride. While going downhill, I can still keep my effort/HR up, but the unit registers very low wattage output.

Set up of the unit can affect the accuracy of the power readings. I have been able to replicate the power numbers on the Fortius relatively accurately, but I used a powertap to calibrate it.

Apparently, it the software can be a bit finicky, depending on the computer it's installed on. That said, any relatively new computer should work. If you have an older computer, you may be frustrated by the install.

RLVs are another ~$50US a pop; so, if you want to use these, be prepared to spend another few hundred on the videos.

SRM ergometers are $22,000. I think they used to be $27,000 so I'm wondering why the price went down considering the exchange rate. I think there are only 6 in existence so maybe they're lowering the price in an effort to sell #7.

:roflmao:



There are cheaper, better ergometers like the Velotron or better ergometers for the same price such as the Lode Excalibur Sport. The reason the Velotron seems to be a popular lab ergometer is because it's only around $8000. The Velotron was designed to address the Computrainer's failings (both are made by Racermate).

Thanks for the info. The team coach needs a new ergo as the one he has is old and getting pretty rusty. I think I am going to motion for purchasing a new one at the upcoming AGM.

:roflmao:

Thanks for the info. The team coach needs a new ergo as the one he has is old and getting pretty rusty. I think I am going to motion for purchasing a new one at the upcoming AGM.

There's a 20% discount for coaches. A friend of mine got a USA Cycling coaching license primarily to take advantage of the discount and the cost of the license was more than paid for by the discount.

I've been riding a computrainer in winters for probably 5 or 6 years. One thing I look forward to this winter is the ability to convert Garmin Edge data into a computrainer course so I can ride the identical routes I ride outside. I've done it twice so far and it is amazing how accurate it is. I can almost envision the real course despite computrainer putting in it's own turns. Never a dull moment on the computrainer.

If you have a spare computer and can leave the whole thing set up that would be ideal. Most "old" computers these days are sufficient enough to run the system. A good video card and a serial port are recommended.

There's a 20% discount for coaches. A friend of mine got a USA Cycling coaching license primarily to take advantage of the discount and the cost of the license was more than paid for by the discount.

Good to know, thanks.

I've been riding a computrainer in winters for probably 5 or 6 years. One thing I look forward to this winter is the ability to convert Garmin Edge data into a computrainer course so I can ride the identical routes I ride outside. I've done it twice so far and it is amazing how accurate it is. I can almost envision the real course despite computrainer putting in it's own turns. Never a dull moment on the computrainer.

If you have a spare computer and can leave the whole thing set up that would be ideal. Most "old" computers these days are sufficient enough to run the system. A good video card and a serial port are recommended.

You have got to explain how you do this. I would love to import some of my routes into a CP file. PM me when you have a minute.

You have got to explain how you do this. I would love to import some of my routes into a CP file. PM me when you have a minute.
Hey, share with all of us! And if my Gamin 305 comes back the second time from warranty work and actually operates for more than three months I'll be happy!

You have got to explain how you do this. I would love to import some of my routes into a CP file. PM me when you have a minute.

RacerMate makes software called GPS Course Creator which gives you the ability to create a course directly from Garmin 305 ride data or from a .gpx file. It's $65, but I find well worth it in my limited testing. There's even the ability to smooth out errant data in the course (One 9% climb had sections topping 15% when imported into the computrainer). You can also use this feature to tweak existing courses you may have created and saved.

Essentially with this software and the Garmin, you can map any course, even in your car, and train on it. I plan on doing this very thing for a race in the spring, I'll go and drive the course with the Garmin, then import into GPS Course creator.

You can find it here (http://www.computrainer.com/rm_inc/garmin.htm)

Thanks.

This thread is REALLY worth reading on the TACX vs. Computrainer topic.

http://68.115.203.26/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1102

I bought a Tackx unit from Colorado Cyclist. Couldn't even assemble it. .

LOL..shocked.

Hey MDCatV,

I have a buddy (doesn't hang on these forums) buying a Computrainer shortly. Since we are in the general area I am sure I could talk him into letting you try it sometime.

-D

Dudes,
I'm in the market and seriously looking at Tacx. 1Centaur's link is 2+ years old and ends with a 2007 questioning update. I really want to know about the surmountable power and support issues. Having chillun that appear to self-sustain playing Halo3 and Wii it is obvious the technology exists to make the Fortius vision work. It would seem if the percieved market is significant the big boys will run over smaller companies. Has Tacx solved their US problems? Will Microsoft and Nintendo come out with a bicylict savy, useful workout "game"?

Dudes,
I'm in the market and seriously looking at Tacx. 1Centaur's link is 2+ years old and ends with a 2007 questioning update. I really want to know about the surmountable power and support issues. Having chillun that appear to self-sustain playing Halo3 and Wii it is obvious the technology exists to make the Fortius vision work. It would seem if the percieved market is significant the big boys will run over smaller companies. Has Tacx solved their US problems? Will Microsoft and Nintendo come out with a bicylict savy, useful workout "game"?

There is not enough of a market (sadly) for nintendo or microsoft, though frankly the technology is very easily there.

Has Tacx solved the problems? No. They are continually working on them, but they have not. How bad are the problems? Currently, with my fortius, it does not read a power output when going downhill (even if there is one) and I cannot go more than 26 mph without their safety feature the "virtual headwind" kicking in. However, as a training tool, these problems are not problems at all. Though I feel they should be easily remedied (partiularly since they have been in european countries), they really do not take away from the capabilities of the fortius.

PM me if you have questions.

DrWJOD,
Your insight is valuable. I have a Cycleops Powertap. It sounds like I'd have no issue with the virtual down hill. A speed cap as a safety feature sounds odd.

Can you rate your (or my view) of the Fortius features not offered from standard resistor trainers (I have a Cycleops now)
Motorized adjustment to a course (compared to linear speed related fluid or mag resistor),
computer capture of complex work outs,
ability to add/create workouts is GPS (I have an Etrex HCx)
cool virtual DVD workouts and graphics,
ability to race others via net
headset steering
Thanks

Has anyone tried the Performance cycle version? I'm excited about the idea of racing others via the net but understand Tacx can't do this for US users becuase of capping speeds at 26mph.

DrWJOD,
Your insight is valuable. I have a Cycleops Powertap. It sounds like I'd have no issue with the virtual down hill. A speed cap as a safety feature sounds odd.

Can you rate your (or my view) of the Fortius features not offered from standard resistor trainers (I have a Cycleops now)
Motorized adjustment to a course (compared to linear speed related fluid or mag resistor),
computer capture of complex work outs,
ability to add/create workouts is GPS (I have an Etrex HCx)
cool virtual DVD workouts and graphics,
ability to race others via net
headset steering
Thanks

If not using the fortius for your only powermeter, then the virtual downhill is not a big deal (They don't go faster than that because I guess the energy required by the unit to spin the back wheel at 40 or 50 mph could either overheat the unit or maybe blow a circuit?) As to the "Rate" question, I will try to tackle it.

Motorized adjustment of the course is the key to any of these (Tacx Imagic/Fortius or computrainer). Huge if you ask me only because on standard trainers you just tend to spin at one cadence, one power. These trainers, while they allow you to do that if you want, do mostly have courses that vary greatly.

The computer capture of complex workouts? With any of these you can create a profile from GPS data (though there is easy to download third party software for the tacx...I believe computrainer can convert GPS and TOPO data itself?? A computrainer owner could better advise you). They all work well to recreate grades of various workouts. Tacx is fairly easy to program a custom workout with you also being able to create one on the fly and saving it for later use.

The computrainer has great Virtual graphics but I believe that the backgrounds are somewhat boring/repetitive (again, users can correct me). Tacx has good graphics with entire virtual worlds to play in (Think of it as a first person shooter game for the bike).

I believe that Ctrainer is coming out with some sort of DVD workouts, but in my mind this is where the Tacx far excels anything out there (and it is what keeps me on the bike for 3+ hours at a time). Tacx has a great library of rides, and for each DVD you can expect in the neighborhood of three to five hours of ride time (you can customize the course so you start wherever you want or do repeats of a certain section for hill repeats etc).

I think computrainer allows online racing through the net via NetAthlon software but maybe there are other ways. Tacx has an online "league" where people from all over the world participate in regularly scheduled races and stage races which I liked, but since I use the trainer in the off season, was a bit counterproductive to my training. Tacx also has a live webracing option that a lot of people are getting into, that I would like to do myself, but sadly, I am having network problems with it. Seems pretty cool. one month free trial but then I think its 50 euros a year after that.

Headset steering. It's "nice" for the virtual world, but bogs down the web racing and can't be used in the leagues. It also does not work for the DVD videos (only for the first person virtual reality so you can ride into the side of a house if you want). Personally, I found it to be a pain in the butt, but if you want to explore and get the most from thevirtual reality side of it, then it is worth it.

Hope that helps.

The CompuTrainer I have is amazing. Funny thing though is that it sends my PowerTap into a frenzy. The PT goes insane when I run it on the CT. No, it isn't a wireless PT - wired SL.

My PT is a wired version as well. I've noticed my PT goes on the fritz then recovers when I go by a farm that has an electric fence and dog "invisible" fence. It may be something else but I suspect the fencing.

I'd really like to use my PT with one of these internet capable virtual reality trainers.
It seems the internet version isn't that mature.

I just tried out the Tacx unit at my LBS. It was AWESOME! Projected against a big screen from behind me there were three modes: actual video felt I was really in Majorca. The graphics with interactive steering was a very cool, energy sapping game and third mode was real time data display (with modes one or two displayed as well if you like). It is easy, intuitive and the trainer adjusting to the terrain and my pedal effort, far more real than any trainer or roller. This demos 300% better than the adds, LBS description or my expectation. I didn't notice a 26mph speed limitation complaint for 60Hz models others talked about.

I just tried out the Tacx unit at my LBS. It was AWESOME! Projected against a big screen from behind me there were three modes: actual video felt I was really in Majorca. The graphics with interactive steering was a very cool, energy sapping game and third mode was real time data display (with modes one or two displayed as well if you like). It is easy, intuitive and the trainer adjusting to the terrain and my pedal effort, far more real than any trainer or roller. This demos 300% better than the adds, LBS description or my expectation. I didn't notice a 26mph speed limitation complaint for 60Hz models others talked about.

i'm selling my TACX Fortius (just over a yr old) w a bunch of RLVs (Lombardy, Pyrenees, Marmotte, & Flanders) + the steering tube for a great price if you (or anyone is interested). It probably goes on eBay tomorrow w a Buy-It-Now price of $ 700, roughly a 40% + discount off list.

gene r

i'm selling my TACX Fortius (just over a yr old) w a bunch of RLVs (Lombardy, Pyrenees, Marmotte, & Flanders) + the steering tube for a great price if you (or anyone is interested). It probably goes on eBay tomorrow w a Buy-It-Now price of $ 700, roughly a 40% + discount off list.

gene r

Why?

I just tried out the Tacx unit at my LBS. It was AWESOME! Projected against a big screen from behind me there were three modes: actual video felt I was really in Majorca. The graphics with interactive steering was a very cool, energy sapping game and third mode was real time data display (with modes one or two displayed as well if you like). It is easy, intuitive and the trainer adjusting to the terrain and my pedal effort, far more real than any trainer or roller. This demos 300% better than the adds, LBS description or my expectation. I didn't notice a 26mph speed limitation complaint for 60Hz models others talked about.


well, if you end up gettin an imagic or fortius trainer, I'll be ready to race you. My runs all get uploaded to the imagic archive.

http://imagic.e-cycling.se/index.php

Why?

For a few reasons. First I live in Santa Barbara, and the TACX gets very little use, as we can pretty much ride year round here.

The other reason, and this is no secret for those that have done their research, is TACX is a pain in the ass. The product has never worked as advertised. TACX says that you can simulate grades up to 20%, uhhh, no, you can't. You can simulate up to 6%, but not 20%. The support is sketchy and their software releases amateurish (they didnt support Vista for the longest time).

That said, the RLVs are incredible! I was always good for 30 mins tops on a trainer. Using the RLVs I can go for an hour or more and not be bored. They are truly breakthrough. BTW at one time I owned a CompuTrainer, and while it worked more seemlessly than the Fortius, it was booooooring.

Here's what it comes down to. If I lived in a cold climate I'd keep this thing and ride it. Given that I don't, a high end trainer is a luxury, and I'd rather put my dough into an upgraded TT bike.

gene r

I just bought the Tacx multi-user from my LBS. I paid a premium relative to used and Ebay but get great, local support. Video is tops. I'm very psyched.

I've been using a computrainer one day a week at our local sports performance center and it's a cruel mistress. It definitely gives you a good workout.

Chris, First day on my new Fortius Multiplayer and I'm working out bugs. I'll be in touch to check out your rides.
John

Have fun with the 26mph bug that the 120v/60hz versions have (the us version) If you plan to race multiplayer, don't race against the euro guys.

I've been using a computrainer one day a week at our local sports performance center and it's a cruel mistress. It definitely gives you a good workout.


Amen brotha...The CT forces you to ride a full pedal stroke, no dead spots. An hour of Tempo on a CT, if you have your FTP set correctly, will leave you walking stiffly the rest of the day. Forget about the 1000 meter sprint intervals. Brutal.

Have fun with the 26mph bug that the 120v/60hz versions have (the us version) If you plan to race multiplayer, don't race against the euro guys.

I race the euro guys. I've got the imagic trainer though with the fortius software, so don't have the speed cap problem on downhills.

I've been doing the webracing this week and it is a blast.

Ive ridden 1175miles on my computrainer since january1. Its a darn good workout.. In fact its the best training equipment I've purchased. If you are serious about going fast and have the money its worth it. IMHO.

Wow! good miles! May I ask the configuration and purchase price (range) ? I'm still getting used to my Tacx and haven't reached the fitness-workout features yet but enjoy the video and virtual reality races. As a newbie, I crash too much to be competitive but the simulated hills is keeping me at better workout rate calories per hour (aka watts aka Kj power) than my Cyclops trainer; probably close to my Krietler rollers.

When I called the Tacx's OWN USA SALES REP he allowed that their units were very difficult to assemble, that he got calls like mine every week, that the instructions were useless, and he had no idea why the Dutch manufacturer refused to make this unit easier for the end user to deal with. It was an astonishing clusterfukc deluxe. I just packed it up and shipped it back to Colo Cyclist. I asked them if anybody there had uncrated one of these stupid units and tried to assemble it, and he admitted they had not. No shock there. I never had anything remotely resembling any of that with Computrainer. Easy to set up and use. But then it's an American company and they appear to be non-idiots. I'd highly recommend C-trainer.

Local guy by the name of Ray (you can see his courses on this page (http://www.computrainer.com/rm_inc/courses/3dc.htm) has a few computrainers as well as some other software. He regularly converts maps or something into computrainer courses.

Also, a place sells videos related to power (i.e. real life videos which have related resistances). Ergvideo: http://www.ergvideo.com/default.aspx

Finally a friend of mine made a nice stand etc for the bike on the computrainer. I can get pics or specs or whatever, it works pretty well, stable, easy to pop a bike on and off (cadence pickup is not mounted to the bike and it's adjustable).

cdr

Has anyone tried the Performance cycle version? .


I have one and it is ok. The actual workout it gives me is fine and the video quality is awesome. The biggest downsides are that the power readings and heart rate readings are a joke and inconsistent. I can deal with power being off if it was off by the same each ride but isn't. It is a crap shoot.

The Tacx assembly is odd and a puzzle, clearly translated English is part of the problem. I had no trouble because I did it at my LBS and used theirs as a model. It would take a day to put together a good, easy to use manual as it is easy. Hello? Tacx?

Well, I was all set to buy an I Magic. So I logged onto the Tacx forum and came away confused about computer requirements, driver problems and a what seems to be a inordinate amount of glitches in what should be a relatively simple computer hook up. One can not use a "basic" desktop or laptop without at least upgrading the graphics card. The card they reference is no longer made and the Tacx forum guys tout graphics cards that are a couple hundred bucks. And while they say you need a Pentium IV to run the Fortius software, they give no clue as to what version of the PIV and therefore what the processor requirements really are. As I would have to buy an separate computer to run the software, it was important to me to get the requirements right and not spend 8-900 bucks for the new computer. Am I making this a bigger problem than it is?

Reread my earlier post. The TACX is a COMPLETE pain the *****, BUT, that said, once you have it working it's better than anything I've used (Computrainer and other high end fluid trainers) for indoor training without the threat of dying from terminal boredom.

That said I may be selling my Fortius, so if you are interested in saving a boatload of $, PM me.

gene r

Reread my earlier post. The TACX is a COMPLETE pain the *****, BUT, that said, once you have it working it's better than anything I've used (Computrainer and other high end fluid trainers) for indoor training without the threat of dying from terminal boredom.

That said I may be selling my Fortius, so if you are interested in saving a boatload of $, PM me.

gene r
I did, and you addressed some of my questions but nothing about the computer hardware (at least not that I saw). Maybe I should just more to Santa Barbara. :D

I did, and you addressed some of my questions but nothing about the computer hardware (at least not that I saw). Maybe I should just more to Santa Barbara. :D

Ha! We welcome any and all bike racers to SB! I've been running the Fortius on a 3 year old Dell Latitude laptop w XP and a so-so graphics card and it seems to do ok, when it doesn't crash inexplicably. The Dell configuration includes...

300-MHz Pentium II, 64 MB RAM, and from what I can tell an Intel graphics card w 64mb of memory

I've not tried to run it under Vista on my 3 month old laptop, because I couldn't get it to work, even though I spent hours following advice from TACX and forum members. For all I know they might have it working at this point.

Hope that helps.