Classic & Vintage - Help please with 1936 tandem id

This is in the 3/4 speed thread but I thought I'd try and reach all the fonts of knowledge.
Not much to go on as it was repainted in the sixties. Viscount has suggested the chain rings could be the key. They are pretty unusual. Any ideas to the frame builder? Frame number is 67117.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h208/markdhudson/DSC02193.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h208/markdhudson/DSC02199.jpg

Photos of the rear dropouts and the fork crown might help. Is it dated for '36 on the hub?

I'll get some more photos. Yes the hub is dated K T 6.

Pitcanary, while your machine is a 3 speed, maybe it would be better to post on the Tandem pages?

http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=44

The tandem guys don't know a great deal about vintage machinery.

Viscount, I've posted on both for maximum exposure.

Hope these help.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h208/markdhudson/fc.jpghttp://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h208/markdhudson/hs.jpghttp://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h208/markdhudson/st.jpghttp://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h208/markdhudson/bb.jpg

It's a standard tandem kit sold by suppliers like Brown Bros.So it may have been built by almost anyone---thousands of builders--has a braze on for a cyclo derailer.I have a 1936 russ tandem with Chater Lea lugs,BBs&headset.Almost the same frame only mine was built without the extention a the rear stays.I think your's is a bit more to the touring.Both ours have the cross tube---makes for a very strong frame.Much better than the two cross tubes brazed to the outside of the seatubes or the two down tube style.

It's a standard tandem kit sold by suppliers like Brown Bros.So it may have been built by almost anyone---thousands of builders--has a braze on for a cyclo derailer.I have a 1936 russ tandem with Chater Lea lugs,BBs&headset.Almost the same frame only mine was built without the extention a the rear stays.I think your's is a bit more to the touring.Both ours have the cross tube---makes for a very strong frame.Much better than the two cross tubes brazed to the outside of the seatubes or the two down tube style.

Fair enough. So you don't think like others that the chain rings could be a source of id? Is there a picture of your's on here? I'd like to compare.

I love the "TANDEM" on the down tube.

I am still mulling over putting "BICYCLE", maybe with a bar code, on my no decal fixie :)

1936 Russ Tandem
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l283/frameteam2003/Russpainted10001-1.jpg

frameteam2003 (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=25395), That's very nice. Have you painted the rims?

I love the "TANDEM" on the down tube.

I am still mulling over putting "BICYCLE", maybe with a bar code, on my no decal fixie :)
"Bicycle" is a great idea. It would help car drivers, most of whom see nothing but cars.

Looks like they could be James chainrings, Joel Metz's website seems to agree http://www.blackbirdsf.org/chainwheels/

LWaB, yes they are certainly James. Thanks. Were they a parts maker?

James made bikes, tandems too I think. There was some discussion in the Veteran-Cycle Club's "News and Views" a year or so ago about James. There is a lot of knowledge available to members. It is possible that the chainrings have come from another bike but probably not.

For future reference: frameteam2003 is correct, it is a standard frame fittings kit and 1930s British tandems are notoriously difficult to identify.

Right, that's great. Thanks very much for your help. I'm picking it up tomorrow. I'll be getting the wire wool and paint out. I don't think it needs a great deal of work to get it on the road. Can't wait to ride it.

Glad to see you are progressing in your quest!
LWaB is obviously correct.
James also made motorcycles too, (if it is the same company) and it may be useful to research James.

But, on the subject of chain-wheels, here's a cautionary tale:
Last night I saw that this New Hudson - badged as such - on ebay, has a Hercules chain-wheel when you look closely.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110189968634&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Moral?
Not sure except, be wary and sceptical.

Glad to see you are progressing in your quest!
LWaB is obviously correct.
James also made motorcycles too, (if it is the same company) and it may be useful to research James.

But, on the subject of chain-wheels, here's a cautionary tale:
Last night I saw that this New Hudson - badged as such - on ebay, has a Hercules chain-wheel when you look closely.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110189968634&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Moral?
Not sure except, be wary and sceptical.

I see that occasionally, especially on the older bikes. My Raleigh Sport actually has one crank arm (offside) that was replaced due to failure and the replacement happens to be stamped "Taiwan" :eek::rolleyes: Also the fork on the bike is probably off of a Herc, it was damaged in the same crash:p I am surprised that as many of the vintage bikes have survived as completely they do. In many cases I think it is because people did not use them heavily and they ended up stashed in a barn or shed, and the ones that did took very good care of them. JMHO;)

Aaron:)

So long as they survive, and they are fun to ride, it matters little in the end.
You are right though, lots survive, and a good thing too.
When you look at the modern stuff, how much of that will survive?
Not a lot, I think.

Doesn't seem to be to much about James on the web. From a quick scan anyway. I'm happy to believe that's what it is.
The rims have pretty bad surface rust, gone through the chrome. I don't really want to spend any money on the bike. ie replacing them. What's the views on rubbing them down and painting them? With having hub brakes they are obviously not going to rub.

I'd simply take off the tyres + rim tape and check the rims from the inside.
Remove any surface rust and prevent more by applying Kurust.
Also make sure the spoke ends are especially clean (+WD 40) so that you have a chance to adjust them later.
Any perforations it might be a problem, but otherwise you have stopped deterioration.
On the outside do similarly, and leave the braking surface because it will be removed by braking friction in use anyway.
Then keep an eye on it!

If you have to replace the rims you'll have to do it, but it's no big deal to do it yourself.
Just bite the bullet and try.
If it don't work out you can still pay somebody else to do it.

I haven't searched James, but one thing I do know is that searching is an art.
You need to know how to do it efficiently.

Except you don't have braking surfaces:o
Oops, but the same principle applies.
Remove rust and do your best to stop it re-appearing.
Losing chrome is cosmetic, so long as it's not perforated it'll be OK.
In my opinion!

Cheers Viscount. Tops tips once more. Touch wood it's just surface so I'll give Kurust a whirl. I know what you mean regarding searching. It's made a trifle harder with a name like James though.

James was part of the B.C.C..(aka Phillips)
Also transfers are avalible at U.K sites---you might need to look under motorcycles to find them.
sam

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/NICK_AT_LLOYDS/decals.htm
do James transfers. I'll get some when I'm ready for them. Made a start today, had to grind the rust off the rims it was that thick. They look better now though.

Just a good clean can work wonders on a neglected machine.
I spend hours doing that when I first get my hands on a fresh project.
I love the old dirty hubs cos it's usually oily gunk and underneath it's all well preserved.
Usually!

Wish I had room for a tandem....