Classic & Vintage - Vintage Campy bike found in garbage

To save time here's a link to my original thread in the road bikes section (in case I leave any info out here):
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=360358

Here's some pictures:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/Picture-039.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture-047.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture-047.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture-046.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture-046.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture-045.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture-045.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture-044.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture-044.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture-043.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture-043.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture-042.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture-042.jpg)


Upon further inspection the serial number was found, it reads 014511. I tried google but didn't find anything.. What exactly have I got here? Thanks in advance!

Some good images of the head tube (showing the lugs), the seat tube/seat stay cluster and the serial number on the bottom bracket will be helpful to those who know what's what.

Those are some huge pics of the components, and there's some good ones there: Campy Record hubs with curved QR levers, bladed spokes, Suntour Cyclone FD, cheapo DiaCompe brakes...but not enough detail of the frame: pics of the lugs/BB/seatcluster, please. It has Campy shorty DOs with chrome faces, and with what seems to be nutted brakes (true?) which might say very early 80s.Oh and a TA crank and Suntour barcons...whatever you got it's a hellacious good find in any dump!

Those are some huge pics of the components, and there's some good ones there: Campy Record hubs with curved QR levers, bladed spokes, Suntour Cyclone FD, cheapo DiaCompe brakes...but not enough detail of the frame: pics of the lugs/BB/seatcluster, please. It has Campy shorty DOs with chrome faces, and with what seems to be nutted brakes (true?) which might say very early 80s.Oh and a TA crank and Suntour barcons...whatever you got it's a hellacious good find in any dump!

Can you specify what the lugs are? I'm unsure where the BB is too. I just want to be sure when I take more pictures.

The BB (Bottom Bracket) is the bottom part of the frame where the cranks are. The BB shell is the part of the frame that encases the BB, an axle and bearing system. Lugs are at all tube joints, the little sleeve like things that turn a few tubes of steel into a bicycle frame.

Also, check out www.sheldonbrown.com sometime for further information on all things bike.

The BB (Bottom Bracket) is the bottom part of the frame where the cranks are. The BB shell is the part of the frame that encases the BB, an axle and bearing system. Lugs are at all tube joints, the little sleeve like things that turn a few tubes of steel into a bicycle frame.

Also, check out www.sheldonbrown.com sometime for further information on all things bike.

Thanks! I'll post new pictures before long.

let's see if I can just repeat your picture with the crucial areas circled in red:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/unworthy1_photo/Picture-039a.jpg
Yay, it worked. The circles are around the forkcrown, the headlugs, the seat cluster (where the stem is inserted into the frame), and behind those gears is the Bottom Bracket, where the serial number may be stamped. Get some good light on the areas and take from several angles.

Looks like a great find for the parts alone, and considering parts are often an accurate indicator of frame quality that could be a fantastic frame.

Probably newer than early 80s since it has that lil nub for a pump behind the headtube, whatever it is im sure its a good frame going by the campy drop outs.

Fork Crown:

http://www.campyonly.com/images/mystuff/2006/cinelli-red/IMG_0180_800.jpg

Dropout:

http://www.campyonly.com/images/mystuff/2006/cinelli-red/IMG_0189_800.jpg

Seat lug:

http://www.campyonly.com/images/mystuff/2006/cinelli-red/IMG_0191_800.jpg

Seat cluster:

http://www.campyonly.com/images/mystuff/2006/cinelli_before/DSCN0024_800.jpg

Bottom Bracket shell:

http://www.campyonly.com/images/mystuff/2006/cinelli_before/DSCN0022_800.jpg

Rear brake bridge:

http://www.campyonly.com/images/mystuff/2006/cinelli_before/DSCN0026_800.jpg

Note: Stole these photos from: http://www.campyonly.com/mypages/2006/cinelli.html

Here's all the new pictures of the requested areas. Hope these are good enough. Let me know if they aren't and I'll try for better lighting. There's not much to see though as the paint is black.

Also, the serial on the under side of the bottom bracket shell reads: 014511

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture054.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture054.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture053.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture053.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture052.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture052.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture051.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture051.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture050.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture050.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture049.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture049.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/th_Picture-048.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/youthnausea/bike/Picture-048.jpg)

Try taking some during daylight, but in the shade. And if your camera has a macro setting, it will help you focus on closeups.

Macro icon:

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Edervish1/_uimages/macro.jpg

Try taking some during daylight, but in the shade. And if your camera has a macro setting, it will help you focus on closeups.

Macro icon:

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Edervish1/_uimages/macro.jpg

I took those with the macro setting. I'll try to do it tomorrow in the day like you said.

Very interesting, I've never seen this type of chainring setup before. I assume this is for racing? Perhaps this bike has a pedigree?

here's my take so far based on what i think i'm seeing in the pics.

imo, it's a late 70's to very early 80's upper mid-level japanese frameset , double butted tubing
owner upgraded the crankset to a TA triple for the gearing
a new wheelset was built up to replace the OEM wheels
bars, stem,headset, brakeset,bar end shifters, derailleurs, seatpost & pedals are probably original to the bike

The components don't tell you anything; a bigger mishmash I doubt I'll see again.

That said, the wrapover seatstays will narrow it down for the knowledgable. This is a REALLY esoteric question, but knowing the bottom bracket threading will narrow it down even more. I know of French, British and Swiss bikes with that kind of seatstay detailing, and the threading will help. The bottom bracket cups will have something stamped into them ("35 X P1" is stamped into the Swiss thread Tange bottom bracket cups sitting on my desk right now, for instance ...) so give us that info, too.

I have to disagree with caterham; this don't look Japanese to me.

And for those of you guys who haven't picked it up from the other thread: the SN is 014511.

here's my take so far based on what i think i'm seeing in the pics.

imo, it's a late 70's to very early 80's upper mid-level japanese frameset , double butted tubing
owner upgraded the crankset to a TA triple for the gearing
a new wheelset was built up to replace the OEM wheels
bars, stem,headset, brakeset,bar end shifters, derailleurs, seatpost & pedals are probably original to the bike

Any idea what kind of frame though? Good info, thanks :)

The components don't tell you anything; a bigger mishmash I doubt I'll see again.

That said, the wrapover seatstays will narrow it down for the knowledgable. This is a REALLY esoteric question, but knowing the bottom bracket threading will narrow it down even more. I know of French, British and Swiss bikes with that kind of seatstay detailing, and the threading will help. The bottom bracket cups will have something stamped into them ("35 X P1" is stamped into the Swiss thread Tange bottom bracket cups sitting on my desk right now, for instance ...) so give us that info, too.

I have to disagree with caterham; this don't look Japanese to me.

And for those of you guys who haven't picked it up from the other thread: the SN is 014511.

Bottom Bracket Cups? Where exactly should I look for these?

EDIT: I looked it up. I dont have the tools for this right now. Haha

Any idea what kind of frame though? Good info, thanks :)

A good one. The details are what we're working on here ...:D

In all seriousness ... there are many, many people here who know more than I do - guys who have owned bike shops for decades, or raced back in the day - but I'm guessing it's British or French, made of Reynolds 531 tubing (this is good), and from one of the larger makers based on its six-digit serial number. I'm also guessing 1970's.

Give us more details and pictures, and we'll beat this to death for days.

A good one. The details are what we're working on here ...:D

In all seriousness ... there are many, many people here who know more than I do - guys who have owned bike shops for decades, or raced back in the day - but I'm guessing it's British or French, made of Reynolds 531 tubing (this is good), and from one of the larger makers based on its six-digit serial number. I'm also guessing 1970's.

Give us more details and pictures, and we'll beat this to death for days.

I'll take some more pictures tomorrow. Hopefully they'll turn out better outside in macro mode. Thanks for all the help, man. I appreciate everything.

Bottom bracket cups ... the bottom bracket shell is the part of the frame that holds the spindle to which the cranks are attached, and it's probably where the serial number is stamped. The cups are the metal discs which screw into both sides of that bottom bracket shell; they hold the bearings and the spindle in place. Here's a photo of a bottom bracket set, including cups:

French crank, Italian hubs, Japanese derailleurs, bar end shifters. This was obviously a bike owned by someone who liked working on bikes. I think I would check with the police and Craigslist to see if it was reported stolen.
As for the identity of the frame, your guess is as good as mine. Knowing the bottom bracket threading will narrow it down, but that will involve getting a crank puller. It does look to be a fairly decent bike though.

You shouldn't HAVE to pull the crank to read markings on the adjustable cup (LH side as you sit on it, without the gears), just peer in the gap and look for something like 1.37 x 24 or such. If I had to guess right now, I'd go with British... why guess when more pics are coming, but that semi-wrap seat cluster is pretty "Brit" to my eye. You wouldn't have seen those short Campy DOs in the '70s, not common until '78-79, so based on the conservative touches like no BB cable guides and the simple TT guides and straight brake bridge with nutted brakes: I'm still saying right around 1980 (give or take a little). It IS a hodgepodge of mostly good parts, obviously owned by somebody who cared for and rode it, could very well have been stolen, but then why dumped? A thief would flip it for his fix or strip it...could be the result of an angry divorce or of a death:(. Can anybody ID that headset? Is that "1/2 step plus granny" gearing? And what brand chain is that, it's distinctive but escapes me right now: Regina? Everest? If it's a Campy RD, how about a "patent date" (right on top)?

The japanese did various copies of the classic brit semi wrap seatclusters but i definately missed the pic showing the right rear dropout detail.Based on that , the better-than- french finishwork and the semi sloping fork crown, I'd now be inclined to lean towards a british origin rather than my original japanese assessment. If it is a british built bicycle, it's more likely to use one of the many reynolds 531 tubeset variants. The Seatpin diameter should sort out the tubing identity fairly easily. Also fascinated by that headset. I'm completely unfamiliar with it.

The cranks are TA. My girlfriend's Mercian has the same crankset and similar looking lugs. Oh, and some Cyclone bits too. If the seatpost is marked 27.2 it's likely to be Reynolds 531.

If the seatpost is marked 27.2 it's likely to be Reynolds 531.

iirc, it's 27.2 or 27.0 for standard 531 double butted, 27.0 or 26.4 for 531 straight guage

here's my take so far based on what i think i'm seeing in the pics.

imo, it's a late 70's to very early 80's upper mid-level japanese frameset , double butted tubing
owner upgraded the crankset to a TA triple for the gearing
a new wheelset was built up to replace the OEM wheels
bars, stem,headset, brakeset,bar end shifters, derailleurs, seatpost & pedals are probably original to the bike


I'm going to hypothesize it's an early '80s Trek, repainted. They had nice lugs and brazing, Suntour dropouts that look like short Campys, and in some cases half-step with granny chainsets like this one. Also the number is the right number of digits for a Trek.

Edit: I just checked VintageTrek, and if it's a vintage trek, it's a 1982 410 in 21 inch sizing. So this a plausible hypothesis.

Road Fan

The TA cranks do not mean it's French, since TA was available for conversions, with English BBs. We do need the width of the bottom bracket hanger. If it's 68 mm versus 70 mm, that's significant, and 68 mm is an English BB (Japanese, American, or British in origin), especially if the BB thread is 1.370 x 24. If it's 70 mm and 36 x 24, then the frame is very likely Italian in origin. There were so many small frame shops in Italy over the years that this will make origin very difficult.

I can't see if the chainstays wrap over the seat lug. If they do, it's probably of British origin.

Nutted brake drillings says latest 1984 or 1985.

If it's an old Trek of this vintage, it probably has the word "Trek" engraved in the top of the seatstays, and they are not of a wrap-over design. If it's a Trek, the S/N is plausible, but the chainstays seem a bit short for a Trek sport-tour frame. They are about right for a Trek racing frame.

The brand of the headset might be significant.

Road Fan

Another bit of info from the other thread: there is an "RGP in an oval"

Seat cluster and rear dropouts look very much like the '83 Trek 400 I used to have.

Another bit of info from the other thread: there is an "RGP in an oval"

I didn't scan the OP, but that's a French make of BB shell, but very commonly used by many British builders. It tends to steer away from this being any Trek product, as I don't believe they ever sourced those RGF (for Raccord Gargette Freres) shells in Wisconsin (tho anything is possible). I'm still saying "British", and probably a maker with a pretty big output (given the serial number), but that includes so many "possibles". I also believe them to be Prugnat type "S" lugs, also tending to point to a British builder as these were a popular lug in Olde England, and not so with Trek. I think the seatpost size will tell us it's a 27.2 and if we can see more of the forkblades and seatstays I'd bet on it being 531. PICS, pics, pics...please and thank you.

I have been reserving throwing anything out there before more details arrive but I was going to say witcomb USA? But I looked for photos and didn't see anything that quite matched those stays... then I was thinking a lates 70s carlton but again couldn't find an exact match for the seatstay cap treatment...

If it's British, and from a higher volume frameworks, I'll eliminate Bob Jackson from the list. As the local self-appointed authority on BJ serial numbers, I can tell you with a pretty high index of confidence that they never put a "0" at the beginning of a six-digit number.

I think the frame may be a Raleigh. The way the tubing connects looks exactly like theirs did in the '70s. I was browsing a magazine today and saw it. Anyone concur or is the method of frame work my frame has a common theme in older bikes?

you haven't given enuf details ,specs, measurements or clear enuf pics of important features for anyone to say much of anything with any sort of confidence. I think you can see that we're trying to be of help. Read the comments so far and give us something to work with.

Robert -

+1 to caterham's last comment. It's probably not a Raleigh, given the SN; the Raleigh guys here will answer that one in a second if I'm wrong. But in terms of that basic styling, there are about a half dozen Brit makers who come to mind, and a couple of French ones. That's why we're asking for really, REALLY good pics, plus details about the bottom bracket, headset, etc ...

semi-wrap seatstays are an English characteristic...I might guess Mercian as well. The serial number could also be Ellis-Briggs...or anyone who used a semi-sequential scheme.

I don't recognize the headset either, and I think that it could be close to original...looks pretty old, like a Cross maybe.

"Very interesting, I've never seen this type of chainring setup before. I assume this is for racing? Perhaps this bike has a pedigree? "

This setup is called half-step plus granny. Shift the back, shift the front. The steps are a pretty good 5% when the cogs are set up right in the back. It worked well with older less-capable front derailleurs, but of course, a 49 tooth little ring isn't very little. Thus, the granny gear. When it gets steep, you get three or so bailout gears.

Like I said in the other forum, the price of the TA cranks is suprising...I think that they are still being made. They are the McGuyver of cranksets.

you haven't given enuf details ,specs, measurements or clear enuf pics of important features for anyone to say much of anything with any sort of confidence. I think you can see that we're trying to be of help. Read the comments so far and give us something to work with.

Hear, hear! The pictures REALLY need to be MUCH brighter, so they clearly show the lugshapes, any lug cutouts, the quality of the fillets, and the exact shapes of the points and seatstay terminations.

So did this mystery ever get figured out?

... I can't see if the chainstays [sic] wrap over the seat lug. If they do, it's probably of British origin. ... ... or a Nishiki Competition, several model years of which had Raleigh-copy seat stays wrapped over the seat cluster.

So did this mystery ever get figured out?

ditto Isaac I was waiting with baited breath....bike mysteries are such a good way to learn.

Robertfrom 1987...where are you? :cry: More inportantly, where are the pictures of your bike!!!!! :D

The fellow smelled like he was fishing for info in the first place, and his commentary shows his ignorance about bikes in general.

Probably eBuy'ed it, and likely ignored what anyone said about it being other then a Raleigh. :rolleyes:

-Kurt

Trek was big on halfstep plus granny gearing, but we don't know whether the crankset is original.

I'd have to guess he's long gone, last logged in 11-8-07.

The fellow smelled like he was fishing for info in the first place, and his commentary shows his ignorance about bikes in general.

Probably eBuy'ed it, and likely ignored what anyone said about it being other then a Raleigh. :rolleyes:

-Kurt

The bike belongs to VolvoIsaac now, so I'm hoping he's going to show us some new, better photos so that we can get a better look :D .

East Hill

The bike belongs to VolvoIsaac now, so I'm hoping he's going to show us some new, better photos so that we can get a better look :D .

May I ask how he acquired it? ;)

-Kurt

May I ask how he acquired it? ;)

-Kurt

Craigs List. $80 :) .

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=401305

East Hill

Craigs List. $80 :) .

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=401305

Hehe - told you he was fishing ;)

-Kurt

Yeah she's good. I bought it off Robert for $80 a few days ago, to use as a cross-training bike for my marathon training and maybe to ride to work. As is customary with my impulse purchases I started looking up info about it after I got it home, rather than doing the smart thing and asking before buying. I just knew it looked nice and was the cheapest road bike on craigslist.

An exhaustive google search led me here, and I found a lot of info but the mystery of the frame never got solved. Hopefully these pictures help:

Seat stem/top post lugs
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2366724340_a730a1cf6b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2370/2366573570_3b76ca86fa.jpg

Downtube/BB lugs
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/2366573566_2a9b1f36b3.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2408/2366573554_7fc6dc4ed3.jpg

Rear dropout
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2232/2366573550_69d86069d1.jpg

Steering head
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2374/2366573548_b51f2191ca.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3199/2366573544_9e3583f448.jpg

I'd say that you got yourself one heckofa $80 project bike. Should be a great commuter/trainer.