Foo - why shouldn't I refreeze meat?

I have yet to hear a convincing explanation.

Can Foo be my answer?

Yetis are attracted to refrozen meat. scientific fact.

The freeze-thaw cycle totally messes up the cellular structure of the meat. The texture gets all mushy.


I totally made that up.

From USDA
Food Safety
Q. Is it safe to refreeze food that has thawed completely?

A. Once food is thawed in the refrigerator, it is safe to refreeze it without cooking, although there may be a loss of quality due to the moisture lost through defrosting. After cooking raw foods which were previously frozen, it is safe to freeze the cooked foods. And if previously cooked foods are thawed in the refrigerator, you may refreeze the unused portion.
If you purchase previously frozen meat, poultry or fish at a retail store, you can refreeze if it has been handled properly.

Food Safety Fact Sheet (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Frame/FrameRedirect.asp?main=http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/FAQ/hotlinefaq.htm#2)
http://www.usda.gov/img/spacer.gif

All meat has bacteria in it. When you freeze meat, that puts the bacteria in suspension so that it does not reproduce. It doesn't DIE, either.

When you thaw out meat in the fridge, the bacteria becomes awake again but is slower in activity (that is why they say not to thaw meat outside of the fridge). Thawing meat in warm water is worse.

If you do not cook the meat right away, the bacteria has a chance to multiply, thus increases chances of more yuckies. Refreezing the new bacteria than thawing it out gives that double the chance.

I have yet to hear a convincing explanation.

Can Foo be my answer?

you're english right?

if so, go ahead. it'll be so overcooked, it won't matter.

I have yet to hear a convincing explanation.

Can Foo be my answer?

My understanding only, no warrenties stated or implied. If you die it is your fault.

I think this relates mainly to the 'traditional' methods of thawing meat. Take that roast out in hte morning and put it on the counter to thaw. Fairly safe, but it spends some time in a temperature range where bacteria can grow. But not long enough to be a problem. Remember the initial freezing was from refrigrated to frozen.

But let's say you now refreeze. This does NOT kill the bacteria, they really hibernate and wait for nice temperature conditions. So you have twice the time just with an interruption. But it gets worse. When you refreeze you are going from room temo to frozen, so it has some more time in nice bacteria growth ranges.

Final kicker, how many people who would refreeze are detail oriented enough to add to the label that it has been refrozen? So the process could happen more than once.

Again my understanding is NOT that there is something speecial about thawing and refreezing, it is just total time above normal refrigerated temperature. So if you plan ahead you could thaw at refrigerator temperature and get away with a a few cycles. Still a limitation as in the fridge meat will go bad eventually.

I laugh in the face of bacteria...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


...wait, do bacteria have faces? :rolleyes:

I laugh in the face of bacteria...They wave their flagella at you, you empty-headed animal food trough wiper!

Who's a food trough wiper?? :rolleyes:

The person who wipes out the food trough.

Yetis are attracted to refrozen meat. scientific fact.

I heard it was topless Pirate zombies. Can you provide a reference to show its Yetis?

What kinda meat are we talking about here? http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/naughty.gif

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r162/jsharr/yeti.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r162/jsharr/yeti.jpg

Oh....OK then.....you win. That's proof enough for me.

you're english right?

if so, go ahead. it'll be so overcooked, it won't matter.

Yes, but not wrt food. I have gone through long, drawn-out explanations of how raw I want my meat cooked and not once in all the time I've ordered steak in this country have they ever gotten it even remotely right. I relish gnawing into a beautiful French entrecote. I despise the English for their ignorance of good cuisine.

Though, I have to say, coming from you that's a bit rich isn't it? I mean come on, Holland??!? Land of FEBO??!!?! The only Euro country that's ever made me look forward to English supermarket shopping.

I'm as mad and eccentric as the most stereotypical English caricature, mon ami, but not nearly as clueless when it comes to the dinner plate.

The freeze-thaw cycle totally messes up the cellular structure of the meat. The texture gets all mushy.


I totally made that up.

pretty accurate though

My understanding only, no warrenties stated or implied. If you die it is your fault.

I think this relates mainly to the 'traditional' methods of thawing meat. Take that roast out in hte morning and put it on the counter to thaw. Fairly safe, but it spends some time in a temperature range where bacteria can grow. But not long enough to be a problem. Remember the initial freezing was from refrigrated to frozen.

But let's say you now refreeze. This does NOT kill the bacteria, they really hibernate and wait for nice temperature conditions. So you have twice the time just with an interruption. But it gets worse. When you refreeze you are going from room temo to frozen, so it has some more time in nice bacteria growth ranges.

Final kicker, how many people who would refreeze are detail oriented enough to add to the label that it has been refrozen? So the process could happen more than once.

Again my understanding is NOT that there is something speecial about thawing and refreezing, it is just total time above normal refrigerated temperature. So if you plan ahead you could thaw at refrigerator temperature and get away with a a few cycles. Still a limitation as in the fridge meat will go bad eventually.

Aggro seems to have hit the bingo, and your explanation sums it up nicely. I guess it's mostly a myth to keep idiots from killing themselves.

You can re-freeze meat as long as you top it with refried beans.

I like refried beans. That's why I wanna try fried beans, because maybe they're just as good and we're just wasting time. -Mitch Hedberg

My understanding only, no warrenties stated or implied. If you die it is your fault.

I think this relates mainly to the 'traditional' methods of thawing meat. Take that roast out in hte morning and put it on the counter to thaw. Fairly safe, but it spends some time in a temperature range where bacteria can grow. But not long enough to be a problem. Remember the initial freezing was from refrigrated to frozen.

But let's say you now refreeze. This does NOT kill the bacteria, they really hibernate and wait for nice temperature conditions. So you have twice the time just with an interruption. But it gets worse. When you refreeze you are going from room temo to frozen, so it has some more time in nice bacteria growth ranges.

Final kicker, how many people who would refreeze are detail oriented enough to add to the label that it has been refrozen? So the process could happen more than once.

Again my understanding is NOT that there is something speecial about thawing and refreezing, it is just total time above normal refrigerated temperature. So if you plan ahead you could thaw at refrigerator temperature and get away with a a few cycles. Still a limitation as in the fridge meat will go bad eventually.Yeah, but what about the two different treatments within the same time-frame? If I defrosted 2-lbs of beef quickly in the nuker then eat only half of it. And I don't plan on eating the remaining 1-lb of beef for another week. What's safer? Keeping it for a week in the fridge and thawed, or throwing it back in the freezer? Surely the same amount of time spent at freezing temperatures will grow less bacteria than that same amount of time at 10c in the fridge?

For those folks who don't refreeze their meats, what do you do with it instead?

All meat has bacteria in it. When you freeze meat, that puts the bacteria in suspension so that it does not reproduce. It doesn't DIE, either.

When you thaw out meat in the fridge, the bacteria becomes awake again but is slower in activity (that is why they say not to thaw meat outside of the fridge). Thawing meat in warm water is worse.

If you do not cook the meat right away, the bacteria has a chance to multiply, thus increases chances of more yuckies. Refreezing the new bacteria than thawing it out gives that double the chance.

You know everything, don't ya?:)

I eat very little meat. What I do eat is either in nice pieces (chicken breasts) or in small enough amounts that I either eat everything in one go, or put half of it (after it's cooked!) in the fridge and eat it the next day.

I guess it's mostly a myth to keep idiots from killing themselves.
Probably, but if you do like rarer meat, it's just not going to taste as good, IMO.

The freeze-thaw cycle totally messes up the cellular structure of the meat. The texture gets all mushy.


I totally made that up.

You can keep the cellular breakdown from happening by stopping the water from crystallizing. You'll have to marinate the thawed meat for 12 hours minimum in a 7% DMSO solution with 10% FBS, then freeze it slowly at a rate of no more than 1 degree C per half hour.

Yetis love DMSO, but typically in a strenght greater that 7%.

You can keep the cellular breakdown from happening by stopping the water from crystallizing. You'll have to marinate the thawed meat for 12 hours minimum in a 7% DMSO solution with 10% FBS, then freeze it slowly at a rate of no more than 1 degree C per half hour.

too complicated...just re-freeze in liquid nitrogen. It'll re-freeze so quickly that large ice crystals won't have time to form. No large crystals = minimum cellular damage. And to boot, it'll take what, 1 second to freeze.

too complicated...just re-freeze in liquid nitrogen. It'll re-freeze so quickly that large ice crystals won't have time to form. No large crystals = minimum cellular damage. And to boot, it'll take what, 1 second to freeze.

But that liquid-contact cold will cause freezer burn. And it's so brittle when you take it back out, it might shatter if you drop it. :(

But that liquid-contact cold will cause freezer burn. And it's so brittle when you take it back out, it might shatter if you drop it. :(

put it in a freezer bag 1st, then submerge both in the Nitrogen....:D
and don't drop it.

you're english right?

if so, go ahead. it'll be so overcooked, it won't matter.

:lol:

it might shatter if you drop it. :(So you have yourself a heaping bowl of Meat Flakes the next morning.

Probably, but if you do like rarer meat, it's just not going to taste as good, IMO.

We're not talking about good meat here, just average supermarket chicken crap. Good meat never goes near the freezer. Egad, that's just a crime!

Yeah, but what about the two different treatments within the same time-frame? If I defrosted 2-lbs of beef quickly in the nuker then eat only half of it. And I don't plan on eating the remaining 1-lb of beef for another week. What's safer? Keeping it for a week in the fridge and thawed, or throwing it back in the freezer? Surely the same amount of time spent at freezing temperatures will grow less bacteria than that same amount of time at 10c in the fridge?

For those folks who don't refreeze their meats, what do you do with it instead?

Well... first off, nuking meat changes the flavor, I never defrost fully in the microwave (Or at all, if I can help it)

How about when you get the meat you divide it up and freeze it in the size portions that you're most likely to use? That's what I do. ;)

Hamburger gets frozen in 1 lb chunks, steaks get frozen in packages just big enough for myself and my wife.