Touring - Camping Security....

No, not another gun thread (though I do carry an Airweight .38) ;) I'm picturing myself 500 miles away from home, trying to sleep in my tent, in the middle of the forest, where every crack and snap of a branch makes me think someone is stealing or vandalizing my bike.

I'm probably being paranoid, but if you lose your bike out there you're screwed:(

I wonder if there's a tent big enough to put your bike in along with all your stuff that is still light enough to carry?

When I'm 500 miles away from home, in the middle of the forest, every crack and snap of a branch makes me think:

a) bear ... "did I put the food cache high enough?"

b) elk ... "will it trample the tent ... nah, probably not"

c) deer ... ":)"


If there were anyone around in the middle of the forest, why would they steal or vandalize your bicycle???

Thousands of miles of tour, 150+ nights on the road, and I've never felt the need to do anything more than sling a light lock around the bicycles. The gear, however, goes in the tent ... mainly to protect it from the elements.

When I hear a crackle, snap, or pop (okay, I'm done now) I don't think animal or intruder! My first thought to these sounds is, am I far enough away from that 200 foot tree that the limb that's on it's way down won't land on my tent...with me inside?!

An elk stole my friend's Jeep once...but that's another story!

I would just like the peace of mind that being able to store it in my tent would give.

About 12 months ago there was a similar thread.

The main problem I see is getting you and the bike under the same piece of cloth and you still being able to get around it, especially in the middle of the night when nature makes its call.

To me, the security issues are ALWAYS going to be in commercial campgrounds. A friend had a $5,000 titanium recumbent stolen in the Loise Valley recently at a commercial campground -- the thieves knew what they were after, and after cutting the bike lock, carefully moved a Bike Friday out of the way before making off with the recumbent.

Camping out in the wilds is a non-issue for me, security-wise.

If it still worries you, though, pitch your tent against a brushy backdrop with enough space to lay your bike down behind the tent. Put out guy ropes as you normally would for most tents. Believe me, if someone firstly can see the bike, then wants to make off with it, the chances are they will trip over the guys and wake you up.

You can change your tent - -
Or you can change how you think.

The chances of getting your bike stolen in remote locations are - remote.
What is the value of being free from worry on a tour?
I have twenty years of touring experience and have rarely even locked my bike.
And I have spent the night from the Arizona deserts to the Northwest Territories.

You will never get a tent big enough to contain all possible worries.
But it is possible to leave the worries behind at the beginning of a tour.

I would just like the peace of mind that being able to store it in my tent would give.

I always use my cable lock to secure the bike to the tent. If the bike moves it pulls on the tent.

I appreciate the hippy philosophy, iamawani :p but no matter how you try to put a happy spin on it, in the morning...your bike is still gone.

I always use my cable lock to secure the bike to the tent. If the bike moves it pulls on the tent.

+1
But I wouldn't do this wild camping. The likely thief response may well be kicking the crap out of whoever is in the tent.


I once found a deer chowing down on my leather jacket. Maybe just bring the brooks saddle into the tent :)

But Geddy -

I've toured for twenty years -
Probably more than 100,000 miles on my current bike -
More than half of that from touring.
Don't you think it more than just "hippy philosophy" to have 60,000 miles of experience?

The original poster said camping - not protecting a bike in Seattle or Chicago.
There ARE choices a person cam make -
Of route, of camping options, of value of bicycle -
So that one does not have to worry constantly about theft.

It has taken me half a lifetime to realize that I can either change my surroundings -
Or change my thinking. The latter is far easier and more pleasant.
Such a way of doing things may not be your choice -
But it remains a choice for those who wish to do so.

The original poster said camping - not protecting a bike in Seattle or Chicago.


Oops! You are the original poster.

If you have camped a few nights, you'll learn to ignore the twigs and noises unless it's something really, really, really unusual.

Machka has it right though. Bring most of your stuff in your tent **EXCEPT FOR FOOD**, which you should hang or secure properly to protect from critters and beasts.

I've never read a single recorded case of a bicycle being stolen while **STEALTH CAMPING**. I have read reports of them being stolen while parked at busy areas like super markets and gas stores though.

The odds your bike will get stolen while camping go up megafold if you camp at a busy campsite with motorized campers around you.

My feeling, stealth camping is safer for you and your bike.

I use something fairly simple to help me ignore the snapping of twigs and the wind and such little noises: earplugs. They are great, and very light and packable. You sleep like a baby. And if your gear is stored properly and your bike is secure, just snooze away.

...I'm picturing myself 500 miles away from home, trying to sleep in my tent, in the middle of the forest, where every crack and snap of a branch makes me think...

Your being paranoid, try using earplugs.

Edit (oops): exactly like slowjoe66 said!

What, me worry?

I lock the bike and sleep blissfully. If it's ever stolen, I guess I'll deal with it.

I've camped my whole life. The only things that were ever stolen were two solar showers that I left down by the lake because it was the only place where there wasn't shade. I did a walk around the campground and found them in someone's campsite. Their kids - around 10-13 years old - had found them and thought, "finders keepers, losers weepers." I told their parents they were mine. There were some tense moments. The parents were kind of cretins (like their kids) who felt like they had to defend their kids regardless, but I was able to walk away with my showers and no fisticuffs.

My last bike was an old pink Nashbar with red blotches all over it ("touch-up paint" from the hobby store). I never worried about anyone stealing it. Now with my shiny, new LHT, I'll have to worry a little more I guess. Darn.

I think the likelihood of a bike being stolen is proportional to the utility of the bike in the area. In the middle of nowhere, with 20 miles to the nearest store, bikes aren't all that useful, and thieves are less likely to steal a bike. In Seattle, NYC, etc, where even a wally world bike is decent transportation, any bike locked with less than two monster hardened steel locks will last maybe 15 minutes.

In remote areas I never worry at all. In towns I am a bit more careful, but still don't worry. In cities I am very careful and do worry at least a little.

If you are paranoid enough to be worried in the woods then you should probably stay home :)

I'm picturing myself 500 miles away from home, trying to sleep in my tent, in the middle of the forest, where every crack and snap of a branch makes me think someone is stealing or vandalizing my bike. I'm probably being paranoid, but if you lose your bike out there you're screwed.
Yes, you're definitely being paranoid.

Heck, I bet that most of the people who live in these areas that are 500 miles from your home don't even lock their doors at night.

Entertainingly enough, the NY Times ran an article awhile back on how "city folk" who have houses out in the country pretty much flip out, because they assume they are somehow more vulnerable to intruders, wildlife and the like. ( http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/travel/escapes/26scare.html?pagewanted=print )

The reality is that people just aren't going to mess with you, because there aren't all that many people out there in the first place, and they almost certainly have better things to do with their time than roam around a campground or forest looking for bicycles.

Oh, and on my last tour, I spent lots of time at least 3,000 miles from home, used state-run campgrounds, saw quite a few cycle tourists - including guys going from Alaska to Argentina - and never saw anyone using anything more intense than a cable lock. Really, bike theft is just not an issue.

As to "being screwed," even that is doubtful. It takes a car 1 hour to cover what a bike can do in a day. So unless you're in Eastern Manitoba, it's very likely that you can, at the absolute worst, hitch a ride to a nearby town / bus stop etc.



I wonder if there's a tent big enough to put your bike in along with all your stuff that is still light enough to carry?
What are you going to do, carry around a 45 pound tent? :rolleyes:

I guess you could bring a tarp and throw it over the bike, but I can't imagine that would actually deter anyone.

You could try a purse alarm. Set the bike next to the tent with a cable lock, than hook up the purse alarm in the tent using a tent peg and connect to one of the spokes using a fishing line. Anyone moves the bike('s) they'll pull the pin and a 120dB alarm goes off. It's sure to wake up the whole camping :D and maybe the thiefs will drop the bike('s).
I've used it on our last tour and it worked out well and only seconds to set up. With some looking around you can pick one up for less than 10 euro's.
cheers

"What are you going to do, carry around a 45 pound tent? :rolleyes:"

I think I mentioned that "I wonder if there's a tent big enough to put your bike in along with all your stuff that is Still Light Enough To Carry?":mad:

I get the point that I'm probably being overly cautious (paranoid), but I disagree that, "If you are paranoid enough to be worried in the woods then you should probably stay home.":rolleyes: I think making the bike a part of your tent and stealth camping is a good idea.

Thanks for all/most :D of the responses!

To answer the OP about tent availability:http://www.msrgear.com/tents/velo.asp seems to fit the bil but at 9.5 lbs is heavy.

An elk stole my friend's Jeep once...but that's another story!

Feel free to derail your own thread, I want to hear that story.

I think the likelihood of a bike being stolen is proportional to the utility of the bike in the area. In the middle of nowhere, with 20 miles to the nearest store, bikes aren't all that useful, and thieves are less likely to steal a bike. In Seattle, NYC, etc, where even a wally world bike is decent transportation, any bike locked with less than two monster hardened steel locks will last maybe 15 minutes.

I think that the only reason that it becomes less likely to have a bike stolen is simply because there are less people in the middle of nowhere. It has nothing to do with what is useful. Given the opportunity, a thief will steal anything that is not nailed down. Especially considering that drugs are becoming a huge problem in rural areas. They will steal anything to feed their habit.

I can see where having a bike stolen on tour could create a huge problem. The least of your problems is a ruined trip. But waking up in the middle of nowhere to find no ride out could create a huge problem.

They should do to bike thieves the same as used to do to horse thieves. :) All kidding aside, the police don't take these types of crimes seriously enough. Crimes that stand little chance of being caught, should factor into the punishment. You might stand little chance of being caught but you are going to pay dearly if you get convicted of a petty crime.

Geddy ... where's home and where are you planning to go?

My way of thinking is that you've got to use common sense, and go with what your intuition tells you. If I were camping in the Lion's Campground in the city where I live, I would handcuff my bicycle to myself and bury it in those purse alarms. And it would be pretty obvious in a short period of time that those measures would be necessary. But if I were camping way out in the woods west of where I live (Canadian Rockies), I probably wouldn't even bother with a lock. There's essentially no one out there, and the people who are there have mtn bikes on the back of their pickup campers. I highly doubt they'd want to steal my bicycle.

So you get a feel for the area you're in and act accordingly. In some cases, "acting accordingly" means moving on to the next campground. I've done that before. Or opting to stealth camp in a different place. I've done that before too. In other cases, it might mean tying your bicycle to your guy ropes or something.

The other thing you do is this ... you tour with an inexpensive and/or unattractive bicycle. The appeal of stealing your bicycle will be greatly reduced. If you are touring with a bicycle that is even remotely on the expensive side ... get insurance. Sure there's the hassle to deal with, but at least you won't be out much money.

I use a cheap tarp as a shelter and use the bike as a support sort of like a ridgepole. Someone trying to steal the bike would need to take the tarp down to get at it waking me up in the process.

In the terms of the original post there are pretty near to zero risk, unless you travelled 500 mile to Central park NYC for your night in a tent. In most parts of the NA rural world you are not regarded as cool or the possesor of stuff other people want.

I've used the tent in the tarp approach, but it comes with problems of it's own. Any time you want to go somewhere you have to leave your bike behind or take down your tent. It isn't my experience that improvised shelter, the correct place to lash up your tent, and the best place to lock your bike, necesarilly coincide. If I am in a campground, I just lock the bike to a picnic table.

I think if someone steals your bike, you will make out OK somehow. It's just part of the adventure and it doesn't turn out any better for overpreparing for .1% risks. It's probably less trouble than serious mechanical problems where you are stuck hanging onto the bike.

Someone once asked a prophet....oh, never mind!

Let's just say that the more 'things' you have, the more likely someone will want to relieve you of those things. If you are travelling in places where people don't have what you do, be willing to share what you have. People who share are rarely robbed.

I tend to tour with just a little bit less than the locals, so they would have no need for my things. If I meet someone who does, I am willing to share, so I can't be robbed.

I don't camp in campgrounds. I stealth camp and as the name suggests, no one knows where I am, so therefore I cannot be robbed. I was in Mexico once, heading for the great pyramid. I came around a corner and several locals with weapons stood across the road. As I came upon them, they stopped an SUV (rented from Cancun) and demanded a toll. When the SUV got to the pyramid, occupants informed the police, and asked what had happened to me. I told them that I said they could take anything that I had. They chose a bottle of beer.

The people in the SUV have already received their reward, but were not willing to share with those who have not received their reward.

I secure my bike with a cable lock, to an immovable object if there is one, and then I don't worry about it. My "valuables" fit into a handlebar bag which stays with me at all times, and everything else is usually a bit smelly anyway, which is a great theft deterrent.

I'd never use earplugs though, I'm a big fan of getting quiet night's sleep and all that but I'm aware of being slightly more vulnerable under canvas, and wouldrather be woken by the occasional nighttime noise, than cut off one of my senses and be completely oblivious to what's going on around me.

+1 on earplugs. My wife is my alarm if there's significant rustling to scare her awake.

You can get from Liddle's or most department stores, motion detectors, 30 feet range covering 180 degrees, anyone trying to steal or chew your saddle an alarm goes off. Handy for effing off animal as well.. but as everyone says, a cable lock around a tree is more than enough and as for all those noise in the forest, thats normal forest sounds, spend long enough in it and you will be able to pick up the hitting of the leaves before you hear the smallish thuds of a fallen object. The snaping of the twigs under an animal's feet as opposed to a humans and birds flying off as normal to flying in fright. Then you will be secure as you will understand whats around you. At first I too was jumping and scanning for any movement and when you are in that "hunted" state its amazing what you hear..

Thanks for all of the responses!

I live in Puyallup, Wa...suburb of Seattle. I hope to ride accross the state eventually, and that is what I'm concerned about.

I like the idea of using the bike as part of the tent. I'll at least have a shot at defending my property.

One thing I find is... getting out of a two-wall tent quickly with zippers is not as easy as it might seem, just for a pee in the middle of the night, let alone in a mild state of terror-stricken panic that some oaf might be making off with my gear. Unless your tent has a window, you don't know what is going on outside, and for all you know, there might be someone standing at the door waiting with a lump of 4 x 2 to clip you over the head as it pokes through the opening.

My first encounter with sounds from an unknown source was in the middle of the Nuillabor Plain, well off the highway, when I was awoken one morning by footsteps outside. They eventually disappeared, and I think they were made by cattle. I didn't poke my head out to investigate, lest whatever it was charged at it or bit it off!

And there is always someone who will spoil your carefully selected stealth camping ideas by walking past in the dark, as happened in a small copse at the top of a hill outside Liege in 2003 -- two people walking a dog at midnight. They didn't worry me, and I didn't bother investigating.

Sounds seem to magnify in tents. In a campground, you can hear things from hundreds of metres away. In a park in central New South Wales, a group of Asians partied after fruit picking was finished. Many Asians, especially the girls, have a rather irritating habit of scuffing the heels of their flipflops on the ground as they walk. Occupants of the park in tents got mighty sick of this sound at 2 o'clock in the morning as the trail to the toilets became well worn, and more than one tent occupant got to yelling out: "Lifting your ****** feet when you walk!"

My strategy for when it sounds like someone is trying to make off with my gear? Lots of rustling and moving sound inside the tent, including banging against the tent walls, rapid movement of light from the torch and where possible showing a silouette of me, along with a lot of loud swearing as though I am some burly, intimidating 20-stone brute who has been provoked rather seriiously by the affairs going on outside.

But it has never had to come that... yet. :)

http://www.topeak.com/2007/products/biketent/bikamper.php

I haven't used one of these, so don't consider this an endorsement.

How 'bout putting some cards in the spokes. Makes enough noise to wake the dead (tired). ;)

Seriously, I can see the concern. There's plenty of low-life out in the back country these days. Somehow lock it to your tent or tarp. A plastic tarp makes alot of racket when trying to remove it from a bike.

Seriously, I can see the concern. There's plenty of low-life out in the back country these days. Somehow lock it to your tent or tarp. A plastic tarp makes alot of racket when trying to remove it from a bike.
To which backcountry to you refer? Your own, or everywhere?

I actually qualify as backcountry these days. There's more lowlife that comes here to where I am from the big city and treats the land and its residence like garbage than has grown up in the country. I am glad to see the backend of the city idiots at summer's end, although this brand of lowlife tends to stay in campgrounds because they are closer to the pubs. People who stealth camp or go to national parks/forestry areas here (in Australia) generally respect the land and those around them.

I can't help get the feeling that there's stereotyping going on here that is unjustified and perpetrated by some media.

Seriously, I can see the concern. There's plenty of low-life out in the back country these days.

I've done quite a bit of travelling and cycling in areas that would be defined as "back country" in Canada, Australia, Europe, and the US (including Washington, incidentally -- rode a fleche through the middle of the night in rural northern Washington), and I have rarely come across anyone I would call "low-life".

The vast majority of people I have encountered who live or spend a lot of time in the country are extremely friendly and helpful. They are also the talkative ones :) ... they want to know where you're from, and where you're going. They'll tell you stories about cycling experiences they had in the past ... bicycles they've owned, places they've gone. I had a lady, in a grocery store in a little dot-on-the-map town tell me that her daughter was a mountain biker and had gone away that weekend to compete, and she wanted to know everything about my cycling experiences etc..

They are also very generous. I stopped in a little store in a place that could hardly even be called a town (it had about 4 buildings) in Australia, and was treated to ice cream on a hot day. In a couple campgrounds in small towns in Australia, we were given food (meat - which we were craving!). And one town in Tasmania did not have camping facilities so one of the residents of the town put us up for the night. Here in Canada, Rowan and I were treated to a ride to a campsite late in the day because we would never have made it before dark, then later we were given a discount on another campsite because we were riding bicycles ... both of those campsites were in back country areas.

Obviously there are going to be occasional people and places cycletourists might want to avoid ... I can think of one example in England. A friend and I rolled into a town latish in the day and checked out the town's campsite ... it was behind a pub and occupied (permanently or semi-permanently) by gypsies. Both of us felt uncomfortable about the whole situation, so we continued up the road and found a lovely little campsite on a sheep farm (in England and Wales, farmers can register with a camping association and put up campers). The only crunching and snapping were the sheep eating grass (and nibbling on our tent ropes) in the morning! :D

I've had more uncomfortable situations in heavily populated areas than I have had in the back country. Give me the back country any day! That's where I feel most comfortable. :)

I live in Puyallup, Wa...suburb of Seattle. I hope to ride accross the state eventually, and that is what I'm concerned about.
Once you are a day's ride away from Seattle you will be 10,000 times less likely to have an issue with theft or vandalism. Just relax and don't sweat it.

On our TransAmerica this Summer I probably locked my bike less than ten times and then only with a cable lock. I did worry, but only the few times we were in a larger city.

OTOH: If you travel with an attitude where you expect hostility, you will probably find it. If you are genuinely warm, open, and friendly toward the local folks they will likely be the same toward you.

We had a friend that felt that the folks in a lot of the areas we traveled through were hostile toward cyclists. Guess what, toward him they were. He had problems in many of the towns we passed through while we felt that we were treated with warmth, kindness, and generosity in the same towns.

To which backcountry to you refer? Your own, or everywhere?My thoughts exactly.

I'm always more worried at official campgrounds than stealth camping in the woods All your neighbors see when you leave your tent for shower, knowing you'll be gone for a while. Lots of ambient noise, making it difficult to tell if someone is purposefully sneaking in the vicinity of your tent / gear. Etc.

As someone mentioned, smelly bike gear makes for an excellent theft deterrent. :)

--J

Buy a bike alarm or a bunch of bells that you can attach to the bike at night. A motorcycle lock
would weigh less than a tent large enough to put a bike in.

Maybe a couple signs around your campsite that say "Protected by ADT". :)

OTOH: If you travel with an attitude where you expect hostility, you will probably find it. If you are genuinely warm, open, and friendly toward the local folks they will likely be the same toward you.

We had a friend that felt that the folks in a lot of the areas we traveled through were hostile toward cyclists. Guess what, toward him they were. He had problems in many of the towns we passed through while we felt that we were treated with warmth, kindness, and generosity in the same towns.

+1!!!

As an example of this ... I've been to France twice now and every time, before I go, someone (and often a number of people) tell me that the French aren't very nice, that they are stand-offish and rude. However, my experiences have been quite different. The French are generally wonderful! They are so kind, helpful, warm and friendly. I love going to France!! My French isn't really strong, but I discovered that if I made an attempt to communicate with the French people we encountered (in cities and in small towns), in their language, combined with a warm smile and friendly attitude, they were more than willing to communicate with us and help us out.

And I've found the same sort of thing in my own "back yard". When I'd head out into remote, rural areas of Manitoba, for example, I knew that the way to win over the people I encountered in the little groceries stores etc. was to talk about the weather and their crops. I'd come in and be in the process of selecting something to eat, and they'd eye me a bit suspiciously. It wasn't every day that someone decked out in cycling gear came into their store. Then I'd come over to the counter to buy what I'd selected and start up the conversation with, "It's hot out there ... have you had enough rain in this area for the crops?" ........... and all of a sudden I was their best buddy!

+2
Chit-chat and chicken salad go a long ways. If you're standoff-ish, people will stay away. If you're friendly and willing to share (it might only be sharing conversation, as Machka says), people become more open and friendly. Not always, but far more often than not. All of that and if you're in a public campground at night—lock your bike to a tree or something.

Chit-chat and chicken salad go a long ways. If you're standoff-ish, people will stay away. If you're friendly and willing to share (it might only be sharing conversation, as Machka says), people become more open and friendly. Not always, but far more often than not. All of that and if you're in a public campground at night—lock your bike to a tree or something.

Of course, if you are TOO friendly you just might be left with the kids while Mom & Dad have a romp in the RV. Happened to me and a couple of friends on a trip thru Michigan's U.P. Speaking of locking things - the kids told us that Mom & Dad had locked the RV door - so we were stuck with them for the evening. I can laugh now.

I always use my cable lock to secure the bike to the tent. If the bike moves it pulls on the tent.
Just don't do that in Mongolia. :)

OK,OK!! UNCLE!

Anecdotal stories abound regarding all the nice people out in the hinterlands. Fine. I've met them, too. But, I hang around Washington State Troopers and County Sherrif Deputies from time to time - who, in turn tend to hang around some of the cretins who hang around in the aforementioned back country. More and more, in fact. The dirt is spreading outbound. It's inevitable.

I agree that, on balance, people outside the meat grinder are more laid back and friendly. Moreover, those cracking sounds at night around your camp are very likely just critters, not people, if you are off the way a bit.

However, just because others have great experiences all the time, doesn't negate the validity of the OP's question. Head's Up awareness should go along with you just like your stove.

However, just because others have great experiences all the time, doesn't negate the validity of the OP's question. Head's Up awareness should go along with you just like your stove.

Oh definitely, as I mentioned in one of my accounts, there was one campground in Wales that my friend and I opted to by-pass because we both got a bad feeling about it. That's my usual tactic when I get those sorts of feelings about a situation ... become extra alert and observant while moving on to avoid it.

I've used a henesy hamock with great success the bike stays under you and the tarp! I've also used the Hilleberg Nallo 3 GT, it's vestibule is huge, room for three people and bikes...and it ways five pounds...costs a pretty penny though....Now I use my poncho with the bike as a ridge pole and a very light bivy sack....gotta get light! Happy safe camping: http://www.partioaitta.fi/images/teltat/hb_nallo_gt.gifhttp://hikinghq.net/images/hammock.jpg

When I hear a crackle, snap, or pop (okay, I'm done now) I don't think animal or intruder! My first thought to these sounds is, am I far enough away from that 200 foot tree that the limb that's on it's way down won't land on my tent...with me inside?!

in washington just before we were biking through i was told a four year old girl was killed by a falling branch while sleeping in her tent in one of the local parks. i had never even thought of this scenario before.

in washington just before we were biking through i was told a four year old girl was killed by a falling branch while sleeping in her tent in one of the local parks. i had never even thought of this scenario before.

We were warned not to put our tent under trees in Australia too. I think it has something to do with the droughts over there ... the trees were going into survival mode, supplying any moisture to their cores, so the branches were dying and falling off.


Some of the snap, crackle, pop in Australia could be the wombats too. We were also told several times to avoid leaving food in our tents because these rather large, stocky marsupials were inclined to rip a tent open to get at it.

"The people in the SUV have already received their reward, but were not willing to share with those who have not received their reward."

See there you go! All pain comes from attachment, very B. of you.

I did once go on a trip where the probability of instant death was sufficient to keep the first responders at bay expecting the whole thing to go up in a fireball, and that was just the first 20 minutes. At the end of the day you will settle for a lot less than all your bike and your camping gear. No telling when it will happen. That said, I am watching 16 auctions on ebay...

>>The people in the SUV have already received their reward, but were not willing to share with those who have not received their reward.>>

?????

Are you suggesting that criminals should be *rewarded* for their criminal behavior? Common sense dictates that a tourist should not argue in such a situation. Your post, though, implies an endorsement of that activity.