How do you all like these tips from The American Automobile Association (http://www.aaa.com/aaa/240/sne/INsider/BikeSafety.html)?:
Biking, Walking & Bus Safety
Hundreds of cyclists are killed, and thousands injured, each year while navigating the roadways. Riders can help prevent crashes by following these basic rules:
Always wear an approved bicycle safety helmet to protect your head from serious injury when riding.
Before riding out of a driveway, parking lot or sidewalk into the street, stop and look left, right and left again for traffic.
Ride on the right-hand side of the street in the same direction as the flow of automobile traffic.
When riding with others, form a single line, one bike length apart, on the right-hand side of the roadway.
Stop at all stop signs and look left, right, and left again for traffic.
Walk your bike across busy roads and intersections.
Use hand signals to show others that you are stopping or making a turn.
Help other drivers to see you. Wear light or brightly colored clothing.
On streets where cars are parked, watch for car doors opening into the roadways.
Avoid riding after dark or if the weather is bad. All cyclists are at risk during the hours of darkness.
Give cars and pedestrians the right-of-way. It's an act of courtesy, and it's safer, too.
Obey traffic signs, signals and pavement markings. Obeying the law can keep you out of many hazardous driving situations.
Avoid broken pavement, litter, loose gravel, mud, or leaves. Any of these can cause you to lose control of your bike.
OH306
11-10-07, 07:10 PM
I think they need a little enlightenment on a couple of their 'basic rules'. Where do you begin when there is so much bad information?
gosmsgo
11-10-07, 07:14 PM
They have a kids video called, "otto the auto" who teaches kids how to ride.
Its terrible. Our DOT here in Missouri has a bicycling pamphlet that teaches you two ways to turn left.....
#1. Walk Across the Crosswalks (the preferred way)
#2. Turn left from the right side of the roadway. (no mention of scanning)
maddyfish
11-10-07, 07:27 PM
I only have serious problems with walking across intersections, "giving" cars right of way, and riding after dark.
gosmsgo
11-10-07, 07:33 PM
I only have serious problems with walking across intersections, "giving" cars right of way, and riding after dark.
You should since many more peds are killed every year than bikers.
I dont know which is stastically safer but I know I always feel much more vulnerable as a ped.
Right turn on red and a lack of ped heads do not help matters.
Right turn on red enables 99% of right turning motorists to NEVER look right to see if a pedestrian is waiting to use the crosswalk.
KnhoJ
11-10-07, 07:37 PM
I smell a half-hour brainstorming session. Either as busy work for a few AAA writers, or for whoever one of the AAA editors copy/pasted the article from.
CB HI
11-11-07, 01:21 PM
There, fixed:
Car & Truck Safety
Thousands of motorist are killed, and many more injured, each year while navigating the roadways. Riders can help prevent crashes by following these basic rules:
Always wear an approved motorist safety helmet to protect your head from serious injury when riding.
Before riding out of a driveway, parking lot or sidewalk into the street, stop and look left, right and left again for traffic.
Ride on the right-hand side of the street in the same direction as the flow of automobile traffic.
When riding with others, form a single line, one car length per 10 mph apart, on the right-hand side of the roadway.
Stop at all stop signs and look left, right, and left again for traffic.
Walk your car across busy roads and intersections.
Use hand signals to show others that you are stopping or making a turn.
Help other drivers to see you. Wear light or brightly colored clothing. Only buy white cars or trucks.
On streets where cars are parked, watch for car doors opening into the roadways.
Avoid riding after dark or if the weather is bad. All motorist are at risk during the hours of darkness.
Give cyclist and pedestrians the right-of-way. It's an act of courtesy, and it's safer, too.
Obey traffic signs, signals and pavement markings. Obeying the law can keep you out of many hazardous driving situations.
Avoid broken pavement, litter, loose gravel, mud, or leaves. Any of these can cause you to lose control of your car or truck.
buzzman
11-11-07, 01:53 PM
There, fixed:
Car & Truck Safety
Thousands of motorist are killed, and many more injured, each year while navigating the roadways. Riders can help prevent crashes by following these basic rules:
Always wear an approved motorist safety helmet to protect your head from serious injury when riding.
Before riding out of a driveway, parking lot or sidewalk into the street, stop and look left, right and left again for traffic.
Ride on the right-hand side of the street in the same direction as the flow of automobile traffic.
When riding with others, form a single line, one car length per 10 mph apart, on the right-hand side of the roadway.
Stop at all stop signs and look left, right, and left again for traffic.
Walk your car across busy roads and intersections.
Use hand signals to show others that you are stopping or making a turn.
Help other drivers to see you. Wear light or brightly colored clothing. Only buy white cars or trucks.
On streets where cars are parked, watch for car doors opening into the roadways.
Avoid riding after dark or if the weather is bad. All motorist are at risk during the hours of darkness.
Give cyclist and pedestrians the right-of-way. It's an act of courtesy, and it's safer, too.
Obey traffic signs, signals and pavement markings. Obeying the law can keep you out of many hazardous driving situations.
Avoid broken pavement, litter, loose gravel, mud, or leaves. Any of these can cause you to lose control of your car or truck.
Bravo! a fait accompli.:D
Artkansas
11-11-07, 02:30 PM
Seems like it was written in the '50s and never updated.
Dahon.Steve
11-11-07, 05:27 PM
[QUOTE=buzzman;5611574Walk your bike across busy roads and intersections.
[/QUOTE]
If this were the case, I would have to dismount at every corner!
The Human Car
11-11-07, 09:19 PM
How do you all like these tips from The American Automobile Association (http://www.aaa.com/aaa/240/sne/INsider/BikeSafety.html)?:
The Evil Corporation will not let me access the link.
How do you all like these tips from The American Automobile Association (http://www.aaa.com/aaa/240/sne/INsider/BikeSafety.html)?:
Biking, Walking & Bus Safety
Hundreds of cyclists are killed, and thousands injured, each year while navigating the roadways. Riders can help prevent crashes by following these basic rules:
Always wear an approved bicycle safety helmet to protect your head from serious injury when riding.
Before riding out of a driveway, parking lot or sidewalk into the street, stop and look left, right and left again for traffic.
Ride on the right-hand side of the street in the same direction as the flow of automobile traffic.
When riding with others, form a single line, one bike length apart, on the right-hand side of the roadway.
Stop at all stop signs and look left, right, and left again for traffic.
Walk your bike across busy roads and intersections.
Use hand signals to show others that you are stopping or making a turn.
Help other drivers to see you. Wear light or brightly colored clothing.
On streets where cars are parked, watch for car doors opening into the roadways.
Avoid riding after dark or if the weather is bad. All cyclists are at risk during the hours of darkness.
Give cars and pedestrians the right-of-way. It's an act of courtesy, and it's safer, too.
Obey traffic signs, signals and pavement markings. Obeying the law can keep you out of many hazardous driving situations.
Avoid broken pavement, litter, loose gravel, mud, or leaves. Any of these can cause you to lose control of your bike.
I heard someone once say, "It's not the 99% bait that kills the rat, it's the 1% poison."
Most of this is standard advice. But the carp about "walking your bike across busy intersections" and "yielding right-of-way to motorists" is pure dog-crap-ma.
(That's why they call it, "The American Automobile Association.")
:beer:
pirate
11-12-07, 12:26 AM
Most of this is legit advice, but some of it makes me think that their real intention is "don't get in the way of our drivers, otherwise they will hit you and we'll have to pay for your stupid bike."
ChipSeal
11-12-07, 02:06 AM
Perhaps we cyclists could write safety advice for motorists, no?;)
DRIVE below the speed limit. Sometimes drive way below the speed limit.
PASS slower traffic with care. Always execute your pass when it is safe to do so.
BE patient. If you were so important, they would give you red lights and a siren.
AVOID distractions. What you have to say is way too important to be interrupted by such mundane tasks as driving on public roadways. Please make your phone call when you are done driving.
ALWAYS drive like you are surrounded by lawyers. Just make one little error in judgment and they are going to sue. If you do make a mistake and there are no lawyers nearby, one will be summoned shortly.
How's that for a start? :D
Mr. Underbridge
11-12-07, 08:59 AM
Yeah, I'll take cycling advice from AAA...well, probably when I start taking driving advice from the car-free crowd ;)
As far as the right-of-way goes - if they're referring to marked crossings, I believe their advice is contradictory to the way laws read in most places, no?
The Human Car
11-12-07, 11:10 AM
As far as the right-of-way goes - if they're referring to marked crossings, I believe their advice is contradictory to the way laws read in most places, no?
That is a real hard question to answer on one foot but basically in most states the crosswalk only affords legal protection to people on foot and not vehicles (bikes being ridden.) But that does not prevent a cyclist from crossing a street on their bikes in a vehicular manner outside the crosswalk.
There are legal arguments that have been used to extend the same rights pedestrians have in crosswalks to cyclists on their bikes and there are legal arguments that have been used to deny cyclists the right to ride in a crosswalk when it is an extension of a sidewalk and sidewalk riding is illegal.
So basically their advice on using crosswalks is always legal but YMV if you ride your bike in a crosswalk.
baiskeli
11-12-07, 02:40 PM
The Evil Corporation will not let me access the link.
Funny, I was just looking at that. I am an AAA member but will be switching to betterworldclub at the end of the year. My problem with AAA is stuff like this and the fact that they lobby against public transportation, clean air regulations and are also very bike-unfriendly. In their minds the car is king and everyone else is second.
StrangeWill
11-12-07, 04:52 PM
I saw some guys using hand signals yesterday while I was at work (Papa John's Delivery), I was thinking they were going to run a red light in front of me (so I waited) till the leader pointed to his right and made the turn, I waved at them kind of as a "thanks" but they probably didn't notice.
gosmsgo
11-12-07, 05:19 PM
Funny, I was just looking at that. I am an AAA member but will be switching to betterworldclub at the end of the year. My problem with AAA is stuff like this and the fact that they lobby against public transportation, clean air regulations and are also very bike-unfriendly. In their minds the car is king and everyone else is second.
Next you will expect the NRA to lobby for gun control laws. Of course they lobby for anything pro car just like AARP lobby for any entitlements for the elderly no matter how stupid they might be.
Allister
11-12-07, 05:33 PM
Of course they lobby for anything pro car...
In which case they should keep their traps shut about 'Biking, Walking & Bus Safety' as being outside their scope. Especially if they don't have their facts straight.
OH306
11-12-07, 05:50 PM
Next you will expect the NRA to lobby for gun control laws. Of course they lobby for anything pro car just like AARP lobby for any entitlements for the elderly no matter how stupid they might be.
Do you have specific 'entitlements' in mind or are you just opposed to anything for seasoned citizens?
buzzman
11-12-07, 07:20 PM
Walk your bike across busy roads and intersections.
Avoid riding after dark or if the weather is bad. All cyclists are at risk during the hours of darkness.
Give cars and pedestrians the right-of-way. It's an act of courtesy, and it's safer, too.
The three suggestions above would make cycling impractical for much of the kind of cycling I do.
This is a good example of how drivers are being "educated" about bicycling. It doesn't help. AAA, State Auto Registrars and other automobile associations would do well to more appropriately educate drivers about how to better share the road with cyclists.
Next you will expect the NRA to lobby for gun control laws. Of course they lobby for anything pro car...
Sure AAA advocates for auto drivers much the way the NRA does for gun owners but it's not like the NRA suggests that people go out and shoot their neighbor. If drivers expect cyclists to give the right-of-way when they might do otherwise when driving an automobile it leads to many of the intersection misunderstandings that kill and maim cyclists. How that benefits drivers of automobiles escapes me.
LittleBigMan
11-12-07, 07:29 PM
Perhaps we cyclists could write safety advice for motorists, no?;)
DRIVE below the speed limit. Sometimes drive way below the speed limit.
PASS slower traffic with care. Always execute your pass when it is safe to do so.
BE patient. If you were so important, they would give you red lights and a siren.
AVOID distractions. What you have to say is way too important to be interrupted by such mundane tasks as driving on public roadways. Please make your phone call when you are done driving.
ALWAYS drive like you are surrounded by lawyers. Just make one little error in judgment and they are going to sue. If you do make a mistake and there are no lawyers nearby, one will be summoned shortly.
How's that for a start? :D
DON'T eatyourlunchonthecellphonewhilescanningforlandmarksinunfamiliarsurroundingsdummy
;)
LittleBigMan
11-12-07, 07:31 PM
How do you all like these tips from The American Automobile Association (http://www.aaa.com/aaa/240/sne/INsider/BikeSafety.html)?:
Give cars and pedestrians the right-of-way. It's an act of courtesy, and it's safer, too.
I was going to suggest that very thing...for motorists
eubi
11-13-07, 06:09 AM
Buzzman, I'd like to know exactly where you found the information you posted.
I'm a AAA member, and I'll be glad to write them a letter and set them straight, but I really need a specific location.
I found other AAA bicycle safety sites, and they do not have the same list you posted.
Yeah, that suggestion that cyclists always yield to cars really gets to me...
If you go to that link, enter your zip code and do a search for bicycle, this is what you get:
http://www.autoclubgroup.com/chicago/autos/car_maintenance/articles.asp?articleID=31§ionID=1&keyword=bicycle
Safety is the First Step in Bicycling
March 30, 2007
Bicycle crashes with motor vehicles occur too frequently. By practicing "safety smarts," bikers can reduce their chances of having an accident.
AAA offers these suggestions:
Always stop and look. Scan left-right-left for traffic before entering a roadway. Slowing, stopping and looking for traffic gives a motorist time to avoid a collision.
Go with the flow. Just like cars, always ride on the right side of the road with traffic. Motorists do not expect traffic to be approaching from the wrong direction.
Avoid riding at night. Avoid dark conditions, narrow roads, and roads with highway speeds over 35 mph. Use reflectors, lights, and special clothing if you must ride at night.
Be predictable. Always ride in a straight line. When preparing to change your lane position, look behind you and yield to overtaking traffic. Use proper hand signals.
Obey all traffic signals and signs. Walk your bicycle across busy intersections.
genec
11-13-07, 08:21 AM
If you go to that link, enter your zip code and do a search for bicycle, this is what you get:
http://www.autoclubgroup.com/chicago/autos/car_maintenance/articles.asp?articleID=31§ionID=1&keyword=bicycle
I got this: http://www.aaa-calif.com/OTTO/KIDS/LEARN/BIKE-RULES.ASPX
Apparently CA gets a different AAA than the rest of the US... after all they really love cars here.
Herman47
11-13-07, 08:22 AM
My response to the A.A.A.
From the outset, remember that unlike you motorists, the bicyclist does not pollute the air, cause global warming, use up to any significant extent unrenewable resources, or kill off thousands upon thousands of people each year. Consequently, you motorists are morally inferior to the bicyclists. This should guide you in setting your rules for the road.
So then:
1.) Always stop and yield to the bicyclist.
2.) Given that rule number 1 is being applied, recognize that stoplights and stop signs apply only to you the motorist. The bicyclist need only to slow and check at intersections for other bicyclists and upon seeing none, be on his or her way.
3.) Never, ever use a cell phone while driving. You need to fully concentrate on whether there are bicyclists and pedestrians on the road to whom you must yield.
4.) Always use your turn signals.
5.) On streets where you park, make sure before opening the driver’s car door that no bicyclists are approaching. The bicyclist should not have to concern himself/herself with you; you must concern yourself with the bicyclist.
6.) Refrain from driving after dark, as your headlights are unpleasant for the bicyclist.
7.) If you see debris on a section of the road where bicyclists not cars tend to use, then stop, exit your car, and sweep the debris off the road.
8.) If you believe that there is any possibility that a bicyclist might have to inhale the filth your car puts into the air, pull over to the side of the road, stop, and shut off your engine until the bicyclist has long passed.
JohnBrooking
11-13-07, 08:30 AM
Perhaps we cyclists could write safety advice for motorists, no?;)
DRIVE below the speed limit. Sometimes drive way below the speed limit.
PASS slower traffic with care. Always execute your pass when it is safe to do so.
BE patient. If you were so important, they would give you red lights and a siren.
AVOID distractions. What you have to say is way too important to be interrupted by such mundane tasks as driving on public roadways. Please make your phone call when you are done driving.
ALWAYS drive like you are surrounded by lawyers. Just make one little error in judgment and they are going to sue. If you do make a mistake and there are no lawyers nearby, one will be summoned shortly.
How's that for a start? :D
Nice. I have put it into an attractive Word document and printed it out for my cubicle outside wall. ;)
eubi
11-13-07, 12:32 PM
I got this: http://www.aaa-calif.com/OTTO/KIDS/LEARN/BIKE-RULES.ASPX
Apparently CA gets a different AAA than the rest of the US... after all they really love cars here.
I'm hip.
Thanks genec, but I can't find it. I really can't write to AAA breathin' fire unless I have some concrete evidence!
When I take the Scouts on bike rides, we learn that we, as cyclists, are primarily vehicles, subject to the rights and restrictions thereof. I think the "scariest" thing they learn (and are amazed to find it's legal) is making a left hand turn from a left hand turn lane.
gosmsgo
11-13-07, 02:26 PM
Do you have specific 'entitlements' in mind or are you just opposed to anything for seasoned citizens?
All of them. Especially the huge increase that President Bush just signed into law a while back.
Largest Entitlement increase since FDR from a "conservative."
genec
11-13-07, 03:04 PM
I'm hip.
Thanks genec, but I can't find it. I really can't write to AAA breathin' fire unless I have some concrete evidence!
When I take the Scouts on bike rides, we learn that we, as cyclists, are primarily vehicles, subject to the rights and restrictions thereof. I think the "scariest" thing they learn (and are amazed to find it's legal) is making a left hand turn from a left hand turn lane.
yeah, I think that shocks a lot of motorists too.
OH306
11-13-07, 05:38 PM
All of them. Especially the huge increase that President Bush just signed into law a while back.
Largest Entitlement increase since FDR from a "conservative."
Oh, you mean the one that the Democrat congress pushed through?
gosmsgo
11-13-07, 06:53 PM
This was before congress switched.
buzzman
11-13-07, 06:53 PM
Buzzman, I'd like to know exactly where you found the information you posted.
I'm a AAA member, and I'll be glad to write them a letter and set them straight, but I really need a specific location.
I found other AAA bicycle safety sites, and they do not have the same list you posted.
Yeah, that suggestion that cyclists always yield to cars really gets to me...
is the link working for some and not others?
this is the link I used as the hyperlink in my OP: <<http://www.aaa.com/aaa/240/sne/INsider/BikeSafety.html>> there were other links to the same information on other pages <<http://secure.aaasne.com/public/news/trafficsafe/bikesafety.html>>
you could also try going to the aaa.com website and do a search. Type in bike or biking (not bicycle). There are also printed brochures with the same information.
eubi
11-14-07, 12:31 PM
is the link working for some and not others?.
Apparently not.
The AAA bike advice I was able to find was actually on the money, IMHO. Not hard core VC, but really not too much to complain about.
That line about yielding to cars really got my hackels up, though... :mad:
In my early cycling days, AAA would provide me with maps specifically made for cycle touring. Mind you, this was in the pre-BikeCentennial (now Adventure Cycling) map days.
In general, my experiences with AAA have been good ones.
The Human Car
11-14-07, 09:25 PM
If there are people able to get the link provided by the op then I really think the League of American Bicyclists should be made aware of this disinformation.
gazer
11-15-07, 12:33 AM
California residents can try these links - it should ask for your zip code (try 94305) and then take you to the right page:
Are you a safe cyclist? (http://www.csaa.com/portal/site/CSAA/menuitem.c13d2427e527f6a08e7ea35492278a0c/?vgnextoid=362d727e4181d010VgnVCM100000c512daceRCRD&cpsextcurrchannel=1)
Fairest complaint is that there is no similar section on how to be a safe driver, only more specific things like: don't drive drunk, don't drive drowsy, be careful on slippery roads, be careful around trucks (this one's funny - and actually is a decent model for the missing "Sharing the Road with Cyclists").
John E
11-15-07, 08:07 AM
I got this: http://www.aaa-calif.com/OTTO/KIDS/LEARN/BIKE-RULES.ASPX
Apparently CA gets a different AAA than the rest of the US... after all they really love cars here.
Our segment of the AAA, the Auto Club of Southern California, is actually where the AAA began about 100 years ago. Here are their bicycling rules, with my comments /* ... */.
Bicycle Rider's Rules
1. Keep your bicycle in good mechanical condition (tires, chain, brakes). /* Goes double for cars and triple for trucks. */
2. Obey all traffic rules and signs — always give proper hand signals.
3. Walk your bike across busy intersections. /* I reject this one vehemently. */
4. Always ride with the traffic — as close as possible to the right side of the road. /* The correct (and legal) word is "practicable," which is much less restrictive than "possible." */
5. Be sure the roadway is clear before entering. /* Again, this applies to any road user. */
6. Always ride single file and watch for opening car doors. /* The single-file requirement should be expressed situationally, and would apply primarily when sharing a wide outer lane with motor traffic. Better than "watching" for opening car doors is avoiding them entirely by riding a meter or so away from parked vehicles. */
7. Most bicycles are built to carry one person — YOU! and you alone.
8. If you must ride your bike at night be sure your headlight and reflectors are working. /* A taillight, though not legally required in California, is a very "enlightened" idea. */
9. Select the safest route to your destination and use it. Avoid busy streets and intersections. /* I concur with the first part, but the latter is absolutely impossible in San Diego County, with its mesa-and-valley topography. */
10. Yield right of way to pedestrians. /* When they have the right-of-way or when cycling in a crosswalk or on a sidewalk, but not necessarily when you have the right-of-way and they don't. */
11. Always wear a bicycle helmet. /* unless you practice risk compensation and ride as though a thin styrofoam shell will render you invincible or immortal. Wear a helmet, but ride as though you just realized that you accidentally left it at home. */
BikEthan
11-15-07, 08:28 AM
You should since many more peds are killed every year than bikers.
But there are many more peds on the road than cyclists. Are we talking percentages or totals?
eubi
11-18-07, 10:08 AM
I was asked (the night before the event) to help with a Bike Rodeo put on for the Cub Scouts in our Scout District.
I figured it would be a good idea to see how Cub Scouts handles bike safety. Cubs and Webelos range in age from 7 to 10. I teach bike safety to Scouts (and parents) as part of the Cycling Merit Badge, they range in age from 10 to 18, and I have my own way.
Back on topic...A lot of the safety material given out at this event was published by AAA as part of a bike safety package. I truly hope it is intended for kids, but I'm not sure. I've modified John E's list to show you what the card I picked up says. My comments are in italics
Bicycle Rider's Tips (They're not rules any more.)
1. California Law requires that bike riders under age 18, inculding passengers, wear an approved helmet. For safety, ALL riders should wear a helmet. What I thought was interesting is that they quoted CA law, and didn't just say "WEAR A HELMET"
2. Keep your bicycle in good mechanical condition (tires, chain, brakes).
3. Obey all traffic rules and signs — always give proper hand signals.
4. Walk your bike across busy intersections. Well, OK, for small kids, but what's a "busy" intersection? Parents should ride the route with their kids, and if they feel the intersection is busy, they can tell their kids to walk. Even better, they can show their kids the proper way to cross "busy" intersections. But...should we leave this up to parent that may be cluelesss regarding bicycle laws? If they don't know, they'll learn it when the take Cycling Merit Badge from me. :D
5. Always ride with the traffic — as close as possible to the right side of the road. John E is absolutely correct, the correct word is not "possible" it is "Practicable" (at least in CA, it is). I'll let AAA know about this one.
6. Be sure the road is clear before entering.
7. Always ride single file and watch for opening car doors.
8. Don't carry passengers. My function at this event was to talk about bike history and types of bicycles. Someone was kind enough to bring a tandem. I challenged the kids: "But...the last station said you shouldn't carry pasengers! Why is THIS bike OK?"
9. If you must ride your bike at night be sure your headlight and reflectors are working. Many of the bikes attending the event were written up at tech inspection for not having wheel, or facing front reflectors.
10. Select the safest route to your destination.
11. Yield right of way to pedestrians.
It did kind of brush me the wrong way when I heard the adult at the safety station tell the kids to walk their bikes across busy intersections. But this wasn't my activity, I wasn't involved with the planning, so I didn't feel it was my place to raise an issue in front of everyone.
Also, kids these age are very different. My kids learned how to ride in the street safely and how to cross busy intersections when they were quite young. You really can't select a narrow brush and come up with safety rules to apply to all kids. Some kids are actually very observant and safety consious, and can quickly plan ahead to see an expected outcome to a situation. Some kids can't see a half second into the future. I've dealt with all types, and I'm afraid a broad brush of being extra safe may be better.
So...I handled it by telling the kids that as cyclists, they are subject to the same rights and responsibilities as cars. As their skill and knowledge increases, they should be riding on the road with cars, and doing it quite safely. I ride to work every day, and I love it.
SU100
11-25-07, 10:32 AM
All of them. Especially the huge increase that President Bush just signed into law a while back.
Largest Entitlement increase since FDR from a "conservative."
The only group that got the benefit from that "entitlement" was BigPharma. It screwed the seniors and the rest of us.
But that has been the MO of BushCo. and the rest of the neo-cons from the very start: Rob the working class and give it to the wealthy elite.
Nov. 2008 can't come soon enough. :mad:
ChipSeal
11-25-07, 11:33 AM
Nov. 2008 can't come soon enough. :mad:
President Bush will be in office until January 15, 2009.
This is why it is safe to say that President Bush is the greatest president of the 21st century, and President Clinton is the worst! :p
Good luck to your candidate. Her 35 years of public service and experience is formidable!
Tailwinds!
SU100
11-25-07, 02:02 PM
President Bush will be in office until January 15, 2009.
Sadly, yes.
This is why it is safe to say that President Bush is the greatest president of the 21st century, and President Clinton is the worst! :p
The largest national debt in human history, one million dead civilians in Iraq alone, 4000 of our best and brightest young people dead (officially, that is; it's likely thousands more.), veterans coming home to no health or mental health care, several million more uninsured american citizens, the widest income gap between wealthy and working americans since the Robber Baron era, a war that will end up costing 3 trillion dollars, a dollar that is worth half what it was before he took office, a destroyed military, and a wrecked economy, (and the list goes on...).
That certainly is evidence of greatness, to be sure.
I don't know how much more greatness this nation could stand. :rolleyes:
As for Clinton, he certainly wasn't the worst; He was mediocre at best.
Good luck to your candidate. Her 35 years of public service and experience is formidable!
Tailwinds!
Why would you assume to know who "my candidate" is? You don't know me or even the first thing about me. ;)
Let me guess; you listen to a LOT of talk radio, right? :D
OH306
11-25-07, 04:00 PM
Sadly neither the Democrats or Republicans actually care much about the populace in this country. Their primary concern is gaining power, nothing more. Bush is not the best president we ever had and Clinton is not the worst .. that award goes to Jimmy Carter. You can't blame the president for every bill signed into law since the executive branch of government does not write laws. That task falls on the legislative branch, Congress. For all the Bush haters out there consider that his approval rating is higher than the Democrat controlled congress. Anyway, why not drop the hijack of this thread. Take your comments on this subject to the "Politics @ Religion" forum.
SU100
11-25-07, 04:36 PM
....For all the Bush haters out there consider that his approval rating is higher than the Democrat controlled congress...
True.
But congress' approval rating is so dismally low because the Right hates Democrats no matter what and the Dems that elected them last November are angry that they have done little to nothing about the occupation or impeaching the criminals in the administration.
As for the President, his approval rating is lower than any sitting president in history. Even Nixon at the peak of the Watergate scandal and the eve of his resignation in disgrace had almost double Bush's ratings.
I'm surprised at you, who I would assume supports cycling as an alternative to other, less environmentally friendly transportation alternatives, would take such a harsh view of Carter. He definitely had his faults, but he was probably the most eco-aware president we've had, before or since.
(See, this thread is still about cycling!) ;)
CB HI
11-25-07, 05:50 PM
Why don't you guys take your political BS to the politics forum.
OH306
11-25-07, 07:51 PM
True.
But congress' approval rating is so dismally low because the Right hates Democrats no matter what and the Dems that elected them last November are angry that they have done little to nothing about the occupation or impeaching the criminals in the administration.
It is preposterous to blame The Right for the ineffectiveness of Congress. The Democrat Congress presently has an approval rating of 20% because they have simply accomplished nothing.
As for the President, his approval rating is lower than any sitting president in history. Even Nixon at the peak of the Watergate scandal and the eve of his resignation in disgrace had almost double Bush's ratings.
Wrong! When Nixon left office his approval rating was 24%. Bush is currently at 32% approval rating according the the latest Galllup poll. Your hero Jimmy Carter had an approval rating of 34% when he was trounced by Regan.
I'm surprised at you, who I would assume supports cycling as an alternative to other, less environmentally friendly transportation alternatives, would take such a harsh view of Carter. He definitely had his faults, but he was probably the most eco-aware president we've had, before or since.
Don't be surprised and don't assume my motives for cycling. I cycle for enjoyment and exercise only. It has nothing to do with being eco-friendly. (Still about cycling ;)). If you judge a President on one issue only you will not have a true perspective of his merit in the big picture.
(See, this thread is still about cycling!) ;)
..
OH306
11-25-07, 07:57 PM
Why don't you guys take your political BS to the politics forum.
Agreed. Anything else from me will be on the politics forum.