Classic & Vintage - Odd question on shifting...

I would ask this elsewhere, but I fear the pile'o'crap that I'd have to take...

In my quest to build the perfect retrogrouch bike, I have converted my Havnoonian to 10-speed campy on the downtube, by blowing apart a pair of bar end shifters. It works, ah, only adequately. I have a 10-speed rear cluster and a 9-speed chorus rear derailleur. Has anyone else tried a 9 speed derailleur on a 10-speed cluster? Is it gonna help to bite the bullet and try to score a 10-speed rear derailleur?

Campag changed the geometry of their mechs and levers about 6 years ago. Are you mixing vintages? I suspect a derailleur the same age as your levers would improve things.

the bar end shifters are pretty much new (2006, I think). The cost of the carbon fiber rear derailleur is bracing, to say the least...

You don't say what the problems are, but I don't think a der is going to make any difference. Most indexed shifting problems will be at the shifter or cable. If the cassette and shifter are compatible then it should work if everything is adjusted properly.

sorry - the problem is that, at times, the derailleur will not shift off of the cog it is on. Seems to be more common going to a larger cog, but the problem occurs in both directions. It can be made to work perfectly on one chainring or the other, but will not shift all of the time on both. The cassette and shifters are compatible; they worked perfectly yesterday mounted (as bar end shifters) on another bike.

The rear derailleur on this bike is a chorus titanium 9 speed...I dunno the vintage of this part.

Hanger alignment been checked?

Hanger alignment been checked?

+1 on that. Plus clean and lube the pivots on the der and make sure the cable is not binding anywhere (even slightly). Other than that sounds like you just need to fine tune the cable tension.

I would ask this elsewhere, but I fear the pile'o'crap that I'd have to take...

In my quest to build the perfect retrogrouch bike, I have converted my Havnoonian to 10-speed campy on the downtube, by blowing apart a pair of bar end shifters. It works, ah, only adequately. I have a 10-speed rear cluster and a 9-speed chorus rear derailleur. Has anyone else tried a 9 speed derailleur on a 10-speed cluster? Is it gonna help to bite the bullet and try to score a 10-speed rear derailleur?

If I read this correctly, and you wrote what you meant, you have taken a pair of 2006 (taken from later post) 10 speed barend campagnolo shifters and have remounted them onto downtube clamp or braze-ons? correct so far? and are mating to an older Chorus 9 speed rear mechanism? With an undescribed 10 speed cassette. Range of the rear cogs I am assuming is acceptable to the cage length of the rear mech. Front most likely is 53/39 or compact?

Lots of variables in the air I think. So, what is the assemblage?

I think Chorus was already 10s when Campy made the change in 2001 so there might be an issue there.

I don't know campy too well, but I know Shimano 9-speed derailleurs work just fine with 10-speed cassettes and chains.

Luker, what did you have to do to the bar ends to make them mount on the downtube?

"Luker, what did you have to do to the bar ends to make them mount on the downtube? "

Took the shifter out of the plastic piece that holds it in the handlebar, flipped it over, and tightened the screw down. Nifty black rubber covers included.

The gearing is conventional 53x39, 10 speed rings; 25x12 10 speed cogset (Miche, but really, it worked with the bar ends); rohloff chain.

The cogset works with the derailleur. The derailleur is a chorus titanium 9-speed, prior to the carbon fiber bits.

Dropout alignment is perfect, at least as close as my alignment widgie will get.

I rode it a little last night (crap! its cold outside). and when it shifts it is nearly invisible and silent. When it doesn't, well, it doesn't, and it rattles.

I'm suspicious of the cogset, but not enough to pop a couple of bennies just to see (unless nothing else works.)

The shifting is pretty cool, but one must be a little careful, as shifting can be initiated by just resting one's hand on the shifter. Maybe these issues are why Campy does not issue a 10-speed downtube set? But then...why does it work in the bar end?

I thought that you could do that but on the Branford Bike site they sell a "Le Tour" adapter to be able to use them on the down tube, but there is no picture or price.

They work just as is...the thing that holds the shifter in the plastic bar end holder looks just like the braze-on that is on the downtube, except it is threaded all of the way through and holds a screw from each side. What does the "Le Tour" thingie do?

alright. I got'er working. And I am a dumb*****. I took it back apart to see what I'd done wrong. A pair of the finest chrome water bottle bolts to the person who guesses what I forgot to do (well, really, what I didn't do enough of).

It works...as soon as I can get a break and some sunshine I'll post a picture of it.

dumbarf, dumba55, dumbasp? just checking the morality filters...

Did you neglect to make sure the cable end was pulled snug against the shifter and seated properly?

nope. that would have caused the problem too, though...

Something wasn't tightened down sufficiently? Either the downtube shifter clamp, or the cable end at the rear derailleur.

Doesn't sound like your issue but I've noticed that on my Campy BE (side for the rear), and also on a set that the mechanic at my favorite LBS was working on, is that they have 11 positions ??? If you set it up using the first position (for the small cog) it never works quite right (shifts well one direction but not the other). If you go ahead and click up once and set everything from there it works just fine.

From the Campagnolo Q&A section (http://www.campagnolo.com/qea_search.php?gid=all&cid=1&pid=29&key=comp&rev=1)on the 10sp Campagnolo Chorus rear derailleur:

Does the 9s rear derailleur work with the 10s drivetrain?

Absolutely not. There are major problems with lateral clearance and excursion, and with the geometry of the parallelogram.

I see that you got it working now, but this right here might help cure your future ills:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Centaur-Rear-Derailleur-Der-Short-Campy-10_W0QQitemZ180178674428QQihZ008QQcategoryZ58095QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

From the Campagnolo Q&A section (http://www.campagnolo.com/qea_search.php?gid=all&cid=1&pid=29&key=comp&rev=1)on the 10sp Campagnolo Chorus rear derailleur:

Does the 9s rear derailleur work with the 10s drivetrain?

Absolutely not. There are major problems with lateral clearance and excursion, and with the geometry of the parallelogram.

You're also not supposed to mix them the other way, either, but I took a 8s Chorus Ergo shifter mated with a 10s Centaur RD (8s Record cassette) out last night for its maiden voyage and it shifted flawlessly.

I am currently holding out for a 10 speed derailleur. I think that that will correct the remaining problems...I had not counted the clicks, but I'll try to set it as vpiuva sez, to see if that helps.

The majority of the problems stemmed from the freakin' cassette not being torqued down all of the way. The clearances are phenominally close...a stray finger on the lever will cause a shift from one cog to the other. I went from about 7 pounds/foot to 11 pounds/foot and almost all of the difficulty went away.

I'm sending the bolts to Marty, since he's the default winner.