Classic & Vintage - Surly says: 4130 Cromo frame's don't last very long?

I was on the Surly website looking at their bikes, and I was considering possibly building my next "new" bike, some time in the late future. And then I realized that all their bikes were 4130 Cromo. I thought "well my 11.8 is made out of the same stuff, why not slap some higher quality parts on it?" But then I was looking at an article on their blog about caring for a steel frame and in the first paragraph they state "steel has a special ride, snappy, comfy. With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now." Wow you don't say, a whole 10, and hey if your really lucky 15 years, until it turns to junk?! So what do you all have to say about that? Is a 4130 Cromo frame's prime only up to 15 years, and then what? I find that "fact" hard to believe.

Also, on a side note, I was hit on my 11.8 a couple months ago, and though I don't see any damage to the frame is it possible it still could have weakened it?

Their lawyers helping to protect their behinds in whatever statements they make about guaranteeing their frames.

Probably protecting against fixed gear riders who, after 20,495,239 crashes or jumps with said bike, complain and sue - 15 years since they purchased it new - over a cracked chainstay.

-Kurt

Doesn't sound like they were stating fact, just trying to market the product to everyday Joe who doesn't ride the same bike for more than a year

We all know that steel lasts a lot longer than that, we have a lot of proof on our side, just look in our garages!

OH CRAP!!! I got my Surly in 98... It's time is almost up!!! :D

Sooooo..my '68 Reynolds 531 is built from...Kryptonite??

"... With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now."

Boggles the mind. ... Since they build with it, why would they inadvertently knock it too? - Just Stupid?

Then again, consider the source...

So, what's up with the "Hot-Pants" and "Halter-Top" look modelled by this dude on their website?

Is this the man who values "... a special ride, snappy, comfy..." and carried over to his attire, too?

http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/images/cross-checkStreet.jpg

"... With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now."

Boggles the mind. ... Since they build with it, why would they inadvertently knock it too? - Just Stupid?

Then again, consider the source...

So, what's up with the "Hot-Pants" and "Halter-Top" look modelled by this dude on their website?

Is this the man who values "... a special ride, snappy, comfy..." and carried over to his attire, too?

http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/images/cross-checkStreet.jpg

LOL

It looks like they are marketing to a very mature crowd with those adds.


Tim

So, what's up with the "Hot-Pants" and "Halter-Top" look modelled by this dude on their website?


- note the caesarean scar right above the bikini line... that man has given birth!

Is that his real hairline or did he have that done to look more "Snappy"?

"... With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now."

Boggles the mind. ... Since they build with it, why would they inadvertently knock it too? - Just Stupid?


I don't want to be stating the obvious here, but to their minds they're NOT knocking it. They're positioning it very well against frames that might only last 7 or 8 years (aluminium), and frames that will shatter if you lean them against a lampost to heavily (carbon fibre). It doesn't say that's the upper limit at all, either, just that they'll last that long.

hucking, sickin suck-up, triple chain suck, and table dropping on any bike for 10-15 years is a very long time. Riding daintly along (me) for 50-60 years (GOD WILLING) is no problemo for 4130.

I don't want to be stating the obvious here, but to their minds they're NOT knocking it. They're positioning it very well against frames that might only last 7 or 8 years (aluminium), and frames that will shatter if you lean them against a lampost to heavily (carbon fibre). It doesn't say that's the upper limit at all, either, just that they'll last that long.

+1....I don't think the numbers they're using mean anything at all, really. They're just saying you can buy one of their frames and enjoy it without worrying about its durability.

I like Surlys, their specialty is good quality, affordable steel frames. If only they were lugged!

if you don't ride through puddles intentionally
to spash old ladies crossing the street
then you don't deserve a surly

As many of you know, my 1971 Nishiki Semi-Pro frame did break at the bottom bracket shell after 20 years and 40k mi / 65k km. This included a number of out-of-saddle climbs, which are tough on the bottom bracket and the downtube. I also broke a carbon steel Peugeot UO-8 between the chainstay clearance dimples at the 25-year mark, probably after fewer cumulative miles.

Nonetheless, steel continues to serve me well (see signature) and I still trust it to outlast either aluminum or carbon fiber.

I would put my money on the steel any day. I realize it isn't CroMo 4130 but I have a Raleigh Sports that gas gone, so far, for 35 years with no frame issues and has well over 25,000 documented miles on it. If a steel bike is cared for and ridden well with minimal abuse I don't think daily use over a 30-50 year span is out of the question. I do have a CroMo Motobecane that hasn't had the best treatment but it also over 30 years old and still ridable.

Aaron:)

I'm sure the person who came up with "10 or 15 years" really just meant "a long time".

You have to remember this is the C & V forum. The bikes we discuss are often older than the people who frequent the Surly website. When you're only 20 or 30 yourself, 10 to 15 years seems like a long time and a more than adequate lifetime for a bike.

Most people buying a Surly today probably aren't thinking it's something they'll still be riding in 10 or 15 years.

I've got a Raleigh Technium fram I've been riding that long, and no when I got it it never occured to me I'd still have it after all this time, but it never occurred to me think I WOULDN'T.

Anyway, my take is Surly wants you to know that Steel frames last a good long time, but they also want you to buy a new frame. They don't want to promote the idea that 30 year old frames might be as good as or better than their brand new frames. In fact a n ice vintage lugged 531 frame can often be had for much less than a brand new Surly frame, and is indeed a better frame. Heck as many of you know a full 531 pre-84 Trek frame can occasionally be scored on the curb!

"With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now"

That is so very innocuous, guys. Why on earth would you jump all over it and take it to mean "it will only be good for 15 years"? They're just letting people know their bikes last and chose 10 or 15 years as the number to illustrate that point. And they probably chose those numbers because they're really talking about ownership, not how long the bike will last. As in, 'you buy this bike today, if you still own it say 10 or 15 years from now, it will ride the same.'

As opposed to: "With a bit of care, 30 or 40 years from now some guy will be riding around the bike you once owned because steel lasts that long. Or maybe the 3rd owner threw it in the trash but someone is going to pull it out and still be able to ride it and he'll tell everyone at bikeforums 4.0 what a great find he made."

[B]"
As opposed to: "With a bit of care, 30 or 40 years from now some guy will be riding around the bike you once owned because steel lasts that long. Or maybe the 3rd owner threw it in the trash but someone is going to pull it out and still be able to ride it and he'll tell everyone at bikeforums 4.0 what a great find he made."

:)

I'd feel better buying a bike knowing that some day a guy might rescue it from the trash ;-)

In comparison to most modern bikes, Surly builds theirs like tanks for a good reason:

They are built to last, period.

(Hopefully I will have a Pugsley by the end of winter).

I'm also sure they meant "a very long time".

I ride the Instigator as my XC bike, with a some hooliganism thrown in on the side for good measure. What a comfortable frame :)

I can't resist posting a picture of it. Here it is with the bob trailer that I used to help me move my stuff into my house.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/catskillscooby/surleytrailer.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/catskillscooby/surleytrailer.jpg
It really must have hurt when you bent that toptube.:D
Top

Anybody interested in emailing them to get the truth from the horses mouth as to this statement?

P.S., Kevin - that's the first and only Surly I've ever liked the looks of (in terms of MTB's, of course). Nice machine.

-Kurt

If you think carefully about what they're saying, they're saying that in 10-15 years, it'll be like new. Which actually, is rather encouraging.

Thank you for the compliment, even though she is quite dirty :) I hope to have this ride for a long time.

- note the caesarean scar right above the bikini line... that man has given birth!
Oh my god...you made me look you *******.

:(

Sooooo..my '68 Reynolds 531 is built from...Kryptonite??

No, but I did read that 531 is quite rust resistant. Moreso than 4130, but if you spray the inside of the Surly frame with Boeshield or Weigle Frame Saver you should be fine for a long. long time. Heck, I'd treat a 531 frame with it too.

Yep, I think it's the lawyers that are responsible for the 10-15 year statement. But you can trash ANY light weight frame quickly if you beat the crap out of it.

"... With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now."

Boggles the mind. ... Since they build with it, why would they inadvertently knock it too? - Just Stupid?

Then again, consider the source...

So, what's up with the "Hot-Pants" and "Halter-Top" look modelled by this dude on their website?

Is this the man who values "... a special ride, snappy, comfy..." and carried over to his attire, too?

http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/images/cross-checkStreet.jpg

Actually, when I was discussing my next bike purchase with my LBS, they were trying to interest me in a Crosscheck. One look at that picture on Surly's web site, and I was no longer interested! But I bought a Long Haul Trucker instead.

I'm sure the person who came up with "10 or 15 years" really just meant "a long time".

You have to remember this is the C & V forum. The bikes we discuss are often older than the people who frequent the Surly website. When you're only 20 or 30 yourself, 10 to 15 years seems like a long time and a more than adequate lifetime for a bike.

Most people buying a Surly today probably aren't thinking it's something they'll still be riding in 10 or 15 years.

Hey! Speak for yourself! I like my Long Haul Trucker so much, I can't ever see buying another bike.......except, since I travel a lot, one of those new Traveller's Checks they're going to build (Crosscheck with S&S Couplers) may be in my future in a year or so. Note to Surly: Please, no halter top and short-short pictures.......unless she's better lookin' than your last model!

Anybody interested in emailing them to get the truth from the horses mouth as to this statement?

P.S., Kevin - that's the first and only Surly I've ever liked the looks of (in terms of MTB's, of course). Nice machine.

-Kurt

I think you guys are kind of being a bit crazy here. The OP and a couple other people took a completely innocuous statement and apropos of nothing assigned some darker meaning to it.

They say with care your bike will ride the same 10-15 years from now. That's it. The OP somehow turned that into 'your bike will peak at 15 years and then it will fall apart'.

That's a bit nuts. There's no need to email surly because surly said nothing of the sort and, in my mind, said nothing that could reasonably be construed in that negative way. I think the OP and the few who jumped on the bandwagon are being ridiculous, frankly. You need to go out of your way to read that text on surly's site and take it to mean their bikes will fall apart after 15 years.

There's no there, there, in other words. I'll bet you $100 if you emailed surly and asked them "are you implying your bikes will fall apart after 15 years?" they'll be like "What? Where the hell did you get that idea?"

"... With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now."

Boggles the mind. ... Since they build with it, why would they inadvertently knock it too? - Just Stupid?

Then again, consider the source...

So, what's up with the "Hot-Pants" and "Halter-Top" look modelled by this dude on their website?

Is this the man who values "... a special ride, snappy, comfy..." and carried over to his attire, too?

http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/images/cross-checkStreet.jpg

Wow, are they serious? Police would descend on him in my town.

I think you guys are kind of being a bit crazy here. The OP and a couple other people took a completely innocuous statement and apropos of nothing assigned some darker meaning to it.

I wouldn't blame those who responded - most of them were responding based on the information given by the OP.

P.S.: For the record, there's some photoshop hanky-panky done on that image on their site. Regardless, it don't belong there, one way or another - as echoed here by some of the other forum members, I wouldn't buy a Surely because of it.

-Kurt

Are you people on drugs? "10 to 15 years it will still ride as good as now". Metal frames with the exeption of titanium can ( but not neccessarily always) fatique over time. They are stating that they make superior frames that will be just as good as new maybe 15 years from now. They are definately NOT downing their product. Hard racing level riding can (bit not always does) cause metal problems over many years, and 15 years on a bike IS many years.
My Reynolds 531 framed Austro Daimler Vent Noir rides more or less exactly as it did in 1978. I've seen, and heard of very high quality frames fatiquing and breaking, especially at high stress areas, but it "usually" doesn't happen.
The bike will not instantly turn to "junk" in fifteen years. In fact with care it will out live YOU! I have a bike that is around one hundred years old, and you could ride it safely today.
God! People have hissie fits over the stupidest things.

Sooooo..my '68 Reynolds 531 is built from...Kryptonite??

Pretty much, manganesemoly. It's not 4130, it's MAGIC!

God! People have hissie fits over the stupidest things.

About time you take a chill pill yourself...

-Kurt

... My Reynolds 531 framed Austro Daimler Vent Noir rides more or less exactly as it did in 1978. I've seen, and heard of very high quality frames fatiquing and breaking, especially at high stress areas, but it "usually" doesn't happen.
The bike will not instantly turn to "junk" in fifteen years. In fact with care it will out live YOU! I have a bike that is around one hundred years old, and you could ride it safely today.
God! People have hissie fits over the stupidest things.

My local bike shop sold Austro-Daimler for a number of years. When the proprietor and I were discussing the quality of Austrian frames, he noted that none of the Austro-Daimler bikes he had sold had ever come back to the shop with a broken frame, in contrast to Bianchi and other marques he has sold. Reynolds 531 is Reynolds 531, but the care with which it is brazed must affect its longevity.

As for steel frames eventually breaking, my Nishiki frame probably failed because I used it considerably more per year than the average owner and did lots of hill work. One of my fellow members of Velo Club La Grange broke one more quickly than I did, but he was a fellow hill climbin' fool.

Yes, you have to remember that nothing lasts forever. No steel frame of any construction will last "forever", even under light use. 100 or 200 hundred years from now, something will fail.
Surly bikes are built way stronger than neccessary, so you need not worry about any of them "turning to junk" possibly during your whole lifetime, assuming you care for it properly.
I bought a Bianchi Campione del Mondo last year, at a yard sale of all places, ( Columbus butted chro-mo tubing) and I had it out the other day, and I can definately tell you that even though it is 30 YEARS OLD, it is just like new ride-and quality-wise. You can expect similar results from "most" quality bikes.

How long will a good steel frame and fork last? It certainly depends on the rider. I have a number of bikes that are more than 20 years old, and the frames and forks seem to be in "like new" condition. I expect to get another 20 years of good use from those bikes.

My nephew likes to run his steel BMX bike off four foot high loading docks at high speed and run over foot high curbs, head on. After two years of this abuse, his bike seems fine, but...

So, if Surley throws out a goal of an owner getting ten or fifteen years of good use from their bikes, I suspect they have in mind an owner who splits the difference between me and my nephew: he only rides off three foot high loading docks at moderate speeds, and limits his curb "ramming" to six inch curbs.

I think its some wording against the old (and wrong ) belief that a steel frame will go soft after some years. But that theory does not jibe with reality. Steel frames are so far under the fatigue limit they basically never wear out.